First Run of Test-e...Playin it safe at 300mg/wk
01-11-2012 11:56 PM
First Run of Test-e...Playin it safe at 300mg/wk
Just wanted to start a thread to hear feedback on dosages and recommendations for a first run. Currently 5' 9.5" tall at 199lbs(9.5% BF) but was up to 212lbs at "10.7%" BF on my cheap scale's readings. I have been adjusting diet to cut some fat and have been taking it a little easier on workouts for the past 2 months to recover and help a shoulder issue I had go away, but am about to get back into heavy supersets.
I am only planning on running 300mg of test-e for 10 weeks on this first cycle. I have liquid nolva on hand if gyno becomes an issue and have ran havoc and SD before. I played it safe on both of those and only did 20mg of SD for 3 weeks last time. That was over 6 months ago and am currently just doing the protein and misc supplements for now. I am 31 yrs so am not a kid either.
I am hoping to get to about 215lbs after the 10 weeks and keep my BF% low. Well thanks for looking and will update weekly with gains, feelings, sides, etc.
01-12-2012 07:53 AM
Beware it'll take about 4 weeks for the test e to kick in, so you'll only have effectively a 6 week cycle...
Everyone will prolly tell you to do 500/week instead as well...
Also will prolly want an actual AI for bloating/gyno, not a SERM for on-cycle issues. *should* be able to get away with an OTC like erase or something like inhibit-e, but don't take that as a definate.
I give a f**K!!
01-12-2012 09:33 AM
I tend to agree with Waynaferd to an extent. I prefer an AI, aromasin, over any SERM, any time, during or post cycle. However, 300mgs per week shouldn't cause any problems at all except it will shut you down. You'll probably be slightly above the top range of normal test which is around 900; I'd suspect 300mgs a week will range from 900-1500 depending on the day of your cycle. Since you'll shut down you may want to get some HCG and start using that right away. I would not wait two weeks to begin it.
01-12-2012 10:40 AM
i think you are miscalculating some things. 300mg of test-e per week equals about 210 (approximation) mg of testosterone.
the average production of a male per week is 35-70mg. no need for complicated calculations of levels etc, it is a clearly supraphysiological dose. wether it will be effective is another question, since testosterone is mg for mg not a very strong aas.
some people are good responders however so it may be worth a try.
01-12-2012 11:57 AM
Your reasoning is good, but it doesn't play out that way. The only way to know is to get blood work, otherwise it's all stubby pencil and looks one way on paper; quite the other on a lab report. I'll use myself as an example. For the past four months I've been on just 200mgs of test per week. My serum levels are around 800. My friend, using 100 per week, is close to 800 also. When I was blasting heavy, like a gram of test plus other stacks, I was 6000 the day after an injection and only 1500 the day before. One reason why I would argue with any one the effectiveness of esters. If the OP is on 300mgs per week, he realistically won't see levels much higher than 1500 max, depending on how he responds.
Originally Posted by redman24
I get blood drawn tomorrow and will have results on Monday, maybe Tuesday. I will let you know what they are if interested. I'm getting blood work now because I plan on blasting in Feb and want a solid baseline for 200mg per week, to include liver, kidney and lipid profiles.
So I'm not disagreeing with you that 300mgs a week is more than a normal male produces, but once it breaks down and is part of your serum levels, it has lost a lot of saturation.
01-12-2012 12:54 PM
interesting about your friend and you having similar levels with different dosages. how do you explain this? if i understand correctly you are talking about different ester clearance in people, so that you for example have a very fast release followed by a quick drop off?
spontaneously i would think injecting e2-e3d would be useful in such a scenario. what do you think?
01-12-2012 01:11 PM
I'm gonna be one of those guys telling you to run it at 500mg a week for 14 weeks. Reason? Test is cheap. The shutdown is pretty much gonna be the same. The sides are gonna be pretty much the same. The gains though should be significantly different if it's your first cycle. Hcg and a good pct... Youre gtg.
...GMG760 Version 2.0 ... Back from the dead.
01-12-2012 02:09 PM
I'm purely guessing here, so it's as good as any bro-sci out there--not worth much... When you discount the ester weight between 100 and 200mgs of test, you're talking about a relatively low dosage. I'm 250lbs and workout every day. He's about 160 and never works out. I don't think the difference between 100 and 200 is that great. Both are low and yield low-to-average levels. I think my body, being almost 100 pounds heavier, probably needs more test than he does to achieve the same results. But, I really don't know.
Originally Posted by redman24
01-12-2012 06:44 PM
OP: I started at 300 but slowly bumped up because I was tolerating it well. I just started at 600 today. You could start at 300 and go from there.
Detroit Hammer: This is kind of a tangent but you seem like a dude who gets a lot of bloodwork done. Do you think it makes a difference in how even your levels are on once or twice per week injections? Do you think that translates to a noticeable difference in results?
01-12-2012 07:26 PM
The more consistent your levels are, the better. The ideal situation would be to pin suspension twice a day; no esters, predictable levels. But that's not always practical. The unstable test levels will translate into uneven E2 and a harder time controlling the sides, since you're chasing symptoms usually at peak levels, not average levels. So the more esters you have (sustanon!) the harder it will be to bring levels under control even though the sales pitch for sustanon is better stability! The more stable your levels are, the more you can understand what a particular dose does for you, the gains and sides. But as far as true gains go, the fluctuation will still yield muscle gains it's just that your understanding of what's going on will be guess work...You're right, I get my blood work done every time I change up or down, or if 6 months have passed without a test. It helps me dial in so I know when my liver gets stressed, when my kidneys show signs of stress as well as my lipid panel. I also believe if I'm going to run my mouth I'd better have something to back it up with, even though it's the test bed of some old fart.
Originally Posted by adnscmplx
01-12-2012 11:13 PM
I will be pinning on sunday morning and on wednesday night for a total of 300mg a week. Might push it to 14 wks as suggested but if do that how long to run pct?? Nolva is only gyno defense I currently have and might look into picking up some type of AI soon, suggestions that are easy to get and affordable are appreciated.
I was told by another that is currently on his 2nd year of cycling to pick a dose and stick with it the entire cycle. so I figured that I could do 300mg a week safely and smartly as a first run. I am already planning on running 600mg ea week on a second cycle if this run goes well as have been reading studies showing that 600mg is the ideal range for gains vs sides.
I also want to say thanks to all who have replied as it seems there are some very educated people here on the subject and that helps people like myself greatly. Thanks again.
01-18-2012 06:34 PM
5' 9.5" 212lbs at 10.7% is hard to believe natty, I suspect your bodyfat is a lot igher than you think....otherwise you're ahead of most natty pros, gjdm.
As for your cycle I dont know what to say haha....I cruise at 375mg a week, and usually slowly but surely lose gains during this period between my blasts :s
01-18-2012 07:04 PM
Originally Posted by hungryH
Agree, that is almost impossible natty. You would have to be a freak and would look like a total beast. In which case you would not be pursuing a cycle. There are some pretty good formulas out there. Alan Aragon wrote an article about this. Google maximum muscular potential and you can probably find something.
01-18-2012 07:21 PM
frank zane was 5'9, 180lbs on stage. Offseason about 10%bf, and 195ish. So yeah
Originally Posted by adnscmplx
01-18-2012 09:20 PM
yeah I don't believe the scale either its a cheap one, I would imagine about 14 to 15% in actuality
01-22-2012 03:49 AM
start at 500/wk, any lower it's just not worth it. As many have pointed out, same sides, same shutdown, same PCT needed, etc. why shourt change yourself on your first cycle? have an AI on hand in case, and go at it. some say 10wks, some say 12-14... that part is up to you, but go with 500 for sure.
Will you get gains from 300? sure you will. however, it's like "starting out" at 5/5/10mg of SD. why...
Also, fwiw, 5mg of effectively absorbed test/day results in roughly a 500pt increase in blood test levels according to androderm clinical tests of 25mg patches (5mg/day delivery). Assuming all the test is absorbed and only 20% makes it to total test in the bloodstream, using the same numbers for IM test esters, 20% of 210mg test is 42mg, hardly much more than the androderm delivery, but given that IM may ahve a much higher conversion rate, it's possible that it's 40-60% absorption, thereby possibly raising test by 1000-1500, which is still not much. But that's a whole different discussion. ;-)
In short, use 500, and get pre, mid, and post-cycle bloods to see how you react. Your body's test levels will increase after your first shot, just that you won't feel the "kick in" until 3-4 wks in on test-e or test-c. I used an SD kicker, so that the test kicked right after my SD kicker cycle. It's worked well to the point where I lost no str after my SD cycle, and actually gained about 5lbs since then. Given that I was sick for almost 2 weeks (wk 5-6)... I'd say the test is working. I'm going to carry this out to 12wks, might look into bumping it up a bit as well.
01-23-2012 09:09 PM
beginning of week 2 and have only noticed a little more strength and endurance so far. have access to dbol if i want to stack but might have a little bit harder of a time getting more test quickly to bump up dose. up 3 lbs after 1st week but that could be diet.
08-27-2012 09:06 AM
250mg of Test E per week, put me at 1480 ng/dl on the morning of the next shot.
My peak must have been much higher.
So 300mg..... would put you well above, and even that above is above highest normal range.
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