The bullsh*t stops here. GMG760's first inject cycle.

[GMG760]

What's up guys,

I've been chilling in the shadows around here for the past year, only popping in here and there with posts, but since I have finally gotten around to starting my first injectable cycle, I thought it was a good time to start logging again.

If you don't know me from past logs, I'm 28, 201 lbs, 11%bf or so. I've ran various ph/ds cycles over the past four years, and have finally ran out of my stash. I promised myself that I would never run any designers ever again once I ran out of my stash, so here I am.

I have been preparing for the past 8 weeks, dieting (lean bulk), getting my bloods done, and finally getting my gear!

I am going to run my cycle like this:

12-14 weeks (not sure... I have 15 weeks worth of test, but I don't know if I am going to change doses or just decide to be done at any given time... I am allowing myself to have enough to run it long, but leaving the option for myself to stop at 3 months if need be.

The cycle I will be running is Sustanon 300 by delta pharm, with a methyldrostanlone (designer I know, but it is what is left of my stash (1/2 bottle), just enough for three weeks, and I have always wondered how this would be while on test) kicker, and perhaps some tbol during the last 4 weeks. I have the tbol, but it's not a certainty for this cycle.

I am running 600mg sustanon a week, 3 injections of 200mg, mon/wed/fri . I am currently on my second injection as of 30 minutes ago.
The methyldrostanlone will be ran 20/20/20 for the first 3 weeks.
Tbol will be ran at 40/40/40/40 if I decide to run it.
HCG will be ran at 500iu a week (2x 250iu, tuesday and friday) from weeks 3 on.
I have Adex that will be used as needed, most likely at .5mg eod if I need it.

I am using organ shield through the entire cycle.

PCT consists of nolva at 40/40/20/20 and recycle from purus labs. Any ideas of anything else to add?

My diet plan consists of around 4500 Kcal a day, split into 6-7 meals. I have been on a 2500 kcal a day diet, so this should be ample calories to feed that testosterone. I am not on a carb restricted diet, but my macros break down to about 50/30/20.

My workout will consist of my own hybrid of hypertrophy mixed with DC style stretches. You'll get the picture as the log continues.

From what I have noticed so far, is that my libido immediately skyrocketed... like day 2 has been out of control... must be the test prop, but who knows... maybe it's just placebo.

As for the injections, I was really intimidated at first, but after the first pin, I realize that it's a breeze. Painless, effortless... almost enjoyable in a sick way. I notice a tightness for the next couple days in my glutes, but that's it. It actually just reminds me that I am on cycle and I get stoked every time I feel the tightness in my glutes.

I'm stoked to be back, and really, really stoked to finally hop on some test.

Hope you guys enjoy the show, I'd be happy for everyone to join me in my first journey down the rabbit hole known as gear.

Time to hit the gym!

 

[SweetLou321]

sub

 

[thundergod]

I am going to run my cycle like this:

12-14 weeks (not sure... I have 15 weeks worth of test, but I don't know if I am going to change doses or just decide to be done at any given time... I am allowing myself to have enough to run it long, but leaving the option for myself to stop at 3 months if need be.

The cycle I will be running is Sustanon 300 by delta pharm, with a methyldrostanlone (designer I know, but it is what is left of my stash (1/2 bottle), just enough for three weeks, and I have always wondered how this would be while on test) kicker, and perhaps some tbol during the last 4 weeks. I have the tbol, but it's not a certainty for this cycle.

I am running 600mg sustanon a week, 3 injections of 200mg, mon/wed/fri . I am currently on my second injection as of 30 minutes ago.
The methyldrostanlone will be ran 20/20/20 for the first 3 weeks.
Tbol will be ran at 40/40/40/40 if I decide to run it.
HCG will be ran at 500iu a week (2x 250iu, tuesday and friday) from weeks 3 on.
I have Adex that will be used as needed, most likely at .5mg eod if I need it.

I am using organ shield through the entire cycle.

PCT consists of nolva at 40/40/20/20 and recycle from purus labs. Any ideas of anything else to add?

Run that Test until you run out. I would never leave a few ML left over!! ha ha You know how I am. Or you can raise the dosages later in the cycle. That's what I would actually do.

Run that T-Bol. You won't regret it. It will lean you out and harden everything up at the tail-end of this cycle.
Use that A-Dex, bro. Start it now and run low-dose @.5 mg EOD. It works great!! You can use it at the same dosage during your PCT also, if you wish.


ROCK THIS THINGY!!!!:head:

 

[MrKleen73]

In like Flynn! Do the damn thang!!!!

 

[gymrat827]

X2 on the t bol towards the end

 

[GMG760]

Run that Test until you run out. I would never leave a few ML left over!! ha ha You know how I am. Or you can raise the dosages later in the cycle. That's what I would actually do.

Run that T-Bol. You won't regret it. It will lean you out and harden everything up at the tail-end of this cycle.
Use that A-Dex, bro. Start it now and run low-dose @.5 mg EOD. It works great!! You can use it at the same dosage during your PCT also, if you wish.

ROCK THIS THINGY!!!!:head:

Aww YEEEAAAHH! The homies are starting to show up! Stoked to have you guys along with me for this one. So I pinned my second dose of sustanon at 200 mg last night, again easy as pie. I am already starting to feel the methyldrostanalone, my pumps at the gym were almost painful and my glycogen retention is obviously ramping up. I took my bp and it was 117/73 so that is gravy. My workout plan looks a bit like this: day one: chest and biceps; day two: back and triceps; day three: legs and shoulders; day 4 sscv and abs; day 5 repeat day 1.

Chest:
Db bench: 65x15, 75x15, 95x10, 110x8, 110x5.
Hammerstength bench: 1 platex10, 2 plates x10 x 3 sets
Cable cross : 20lbsx 20, 25lbsx20, 30 lbsx20
Lower cable cross: same as upper cables

DC chest stretch, 45 seconds with 40s.

Biceps
Barbell curl superset with db curls: 50x10/25x10, 70x10/30x10, 90x6/40x6
Preacher machine curls: 25lbsx30, 50x20,75x10
Cable hammers with rope : 80x15, 120x12, 150x8, 150x4 dropset to 80 x failure.


Awesome workout. Now back to my job!

 

[tWack]

Nicely planned cycle .. subbed..

 

[GMG760]

So I have had some good workouts the past two days, and one more injection. I'll go over the workouts tomorrow, it's late tonight, but maybe I can get a question answered by someone by the time I wake up.

So I have my HCG planned to run from week 3 on, but I have been reading up on it, and some sources say I don't need it for this cycle, others say that I should use it, but only for the last four weeks... it seems like every forum has their opinions on it. I trust you guys here, so I thought I'd rack your brains for knowledge first. Should I run it starting later in the cycle? Should I run it at all? I don't want to desensitize my LH either, so yea... opinions/answers/jokes welcome.

Pics up tomorrow.

 

[chocolatemilk]

Researchers give out 10,000iu's of hCG at a time without fear of desensitization.

The longer your testes are atrophied, the more hCG it takes to revive them.

Start it week 1. 250iu 2x a week. You may need to increase dosage from there and inject more frequently but that is a good starting dose.

n Subbbbbed

 

[chrisrob05]

I'm anxious to see how this "hybrid hypertrophy" works.......I may try it myself!! Good post!

 

[delsolrob]

OHHHH SHIT...I came back at the right time!

I've had a horrible time getting on here as often as I'd like, but I'll check in when I can! Plus, I will gotta make it up to your neck of the woods to hit the iron soon!

 

[MrKleen73]

I have no clue on the HCG unfortunately but I think CM probably know his ish pretty well in that regard.

 

[GMG760]

So I got the HCG figured out, it's the beginning of week 2 and I have given myself my first 250 iu shot of HCG. I have now had 4 shots of 200mg sustanon. After much internal deliberation, I have decided based on my past experiences that the mdrol that I have been using to kickstart has expired and is not what I will continue to be using for this cycle. In the past my shutdown, lethargy, strength, testicular atrophy, lack of hunger side effects have all quickly been apparent by the first week of superdrol dosing. I am not experiencing the "superdrol feeling" that I have gotten used to (and a total lack of back pumps... surefire sign that something is funny with this mdrol), and when I looked at my bottle, it is nearly 2 years expired. lol... I thought it was just one year, but now I simply don't feel like putting this into my body any longer. Plus this finally rids me of taking any of these DS/PH's that I have sworn off.

So new change of plans. As of today, 40mg of Tbol for 3 weeks, then I am going to up the dosage to 60 depending on the sides for another two weeks. This puts me at week six.

I will be taking weeks 6-10 off of any oral steroids, then follow up with a cutting compound, most likely anavar (assuming I can find the cash in the next few weeks. I wouldn't normally change my cycle mid-way through, but I get the feeling that this methydrostanolone has lost potency, as even though on Test, I should notice more sides, both good and bad. So, the cycle is now a Tbol kickstart with a (possible) anavar wrap up. Anyone who doesn't do the real stuff and only orals because of simply a fear of needles *ahem* a few of you know who you are... trust me, it's a piece of cake. No pain. Honestly the most annoying part is the tightness in my glutes during the 2 days after the injection... which is minor.

My last few workouts have consisted of two shoulders/legs, one cardio abs, and a full rotation again, leading me to cardio and abs tomorrow.

Do you guys care about numbers or just my exercises and set/rep scheme? I'll post my numbers if you want, I'm just lazy and would rather just lay the workout plan for you (numbers don't really mean sh*t since we are all at different points in our journey and all different sizes and bodytypes. If I really cared about my numbers like that I would be a powerlifter not a bodybuilder). Either or is cool though. I'll give you guys some updates of my strength increases.

Oh and did I mention.. screw viagra... screw cialis... my girlfriend will vouch that Testosterone is AMAZING in the bedroom. Holy Moly.

It might be placebo but the alpha feeling is starting to creep in. The rest of this year is gonna be rad.

DelSol- Hit me up, let's go get a workout. I know we have got to have more hardcore gyms than they do in China.

Now... A question. I have adex, I have formestane from CEL, I have some of the androhard liquivade, and I have some ATD. What are your opinions on the estrogen control qualities of each. I would like to use this last bottle of ATD I have since it expires way sooner than my adex, but I am not sure if it is appropriate as a substitute. Would Androhard be strong enough? It was strong enough to keep my DHT up to avoid the prolactin issues from my last prodien cycle. I never really found that formestane topical did the job for me with anti e control... are there dosage limits to it?

 

[FL3X MAGNUM]

Are you the new Shwellington? Lol as soon as you jump on your first inject cycle you go around the PH threads telling everyone to throw their orals away and shoot up!
Just messing with you man. I am subbed for info.

 

[FL3X MAGNUM]

As for your question about AI's, I doubt AndroHard will be enough, and I haven't had personal experience with ATD, but I can tell you that .25mg Adex every day (or .5mg eod in my case) works wonders on e control. Formastane worked decent too but nowhere like Adex, it hit fast! Don't go above that though or you'll end up with migraines.

 

[GMG760]

Who's Schwellington? I assume he is someone who came to the same realization as me, and as soon as he hopped on the real stuff, he realized just what he had been missing? IDK, so far sounds like good advice to me.

I had this opinion WAY before I finished my DS stash (DS not orals or ph's. I have no issue with people running 1-androsterone if they want to. I have been talking to people trying to use an all in none MaxLMG, Superdrol, Hdrol stack. Do you think that is safer than a simple Test E run? I sure dont. I am using oral steroids on this cycle), the thing was, that I had a stash, and although I probably knew I shouldnt run the stuff, I simply took the easy way out and used what I had in my cupboard rather than ordering all my supplies.

But yes, I will stand by my words. To everyone on AM-- throw your DS away and buy some test.

 

[FL3X MAGNUM]

Who's Schwellington? I assume he is someone who came to the same realization as me, and as soon as he hopped on the real stuff, he realized just what he had been missing? IDK, so far sounds like good advice to me.

I had this opinion WAY before I finished my DS stash (DS not orals or ph's. I have no issue with people running 1-androsterone if they want to. I have been talking to people trying to use an all in none MaxLMG, Superdrol, Hdrol stack. Do you think that is safer than a simple Test E run? I sure dont. I am using oral steroids on this cycle), the thing was, that I had a stash, and although I probably knew I shouldnt run the stuff, I simply took the easy way out and used what I had in my cupboard rather than ordering all my supplies.

But yes, I will stand by my words. To everyone on AM-- throw your DS away and buy some test.

Search his name here and you will find some mildly entertaining material lol.

I completely agree with you, inject is safer as far as sides go, and more effective, and some people do stick to orals just because they're afraid to take the leap. However, there are also people that stick to orals for legality reasons and such. I mainly stick to orals because my girlfriend is currently completely against injecting and I am willing to make a compromise for her. Maybe down the road, or if we break up. But for now I'm content with following/learning
I am still down with dbol though!

Now gaining time! Get it done bro!

 

[tWack]

I mainly stick to orals because my girlfriend is currently completely against injecting and I am willing to make a compromise for her.

My wife is pushing me to go the inject way. She will even perform the injections for me. I am also willing to compromise for her. LOL
Whatever the gf wants, keep her happy. Maybe in time she'll ease up

 

[thundergod]

Now... A question. I have adex, I have formestane from CEL, I have some of the androhard liquivade, and I have some ATD. What are your opinions on the estrogen control qualities of each. I would like to use this last bottle of ATD I have since it expires way sooner than my adex, but I am not sure if it is appropriate as a substitute. Would Androhard be strong enough? It was strong enough to keep my DHT up to avoid the prolactin issues from my last prodien cycle. I never really found that formestane topical did the job for me with anti e control... are there dosage limits to it?

G-Dawg,
Here's my take on this question you posed: I would run up the ATD to get rid of it. Dose it low, like 25mg daily. If you feel that it's not lowering estro or reducing bloat, then up it to 50mg daily. If you still don't feel like it's doing a good enough job, toss in some A-Dex at .5mg EOD and you'll be golden.

 

[oufinny]

Welcome back big guy, its an old AM reunion in here. Where is some Aromasin in PCT? That is all I see not there but man that is a great cycle layout. What is your time between last shot and PCT? I thought that sust with the long ester test it is 3 weeks but Thunder I am sure knows the answer better than I. I will surely be following along, my first injectable cycle will be in January so this is a great way for me to learn!

 

[CopyCat]

Search his name here and you will find some mildly entertaining material lol.

I completely agree with you, inject is safer as far as sides go, and more effective, and some people do stick to orals just because they're afraid to take the leap. However, there are also people that stick to orals for legality reasons and such. I mainly stick to orals because my girlfriend is currently completely against injecting and I am willing to make a compromise for her. Maybe down the road, or if we break up. But for now I'm content with following/learning
I am still down with dbol though!

Now gaining time! Get it done bro!

That's an understatement..lol

Subbed brother

 

[Masciaman]

subbed man

 

[GMG760]

I was thinking 2 weeks, but I think I'll search a bit longer to make that decision over the next 3 months.

 

[punthra]

Subbed...Been a while!

 

[GMG760]

Subbed...Been a while!

Hey bro! Good to have ya here!

 

[GMG760]

So I'm sitting here in between sets of my back workout, and I feel so goddamn good. I feel like my muscles are super full, I just wanna keep addin mote weight to my lifts, super alpha/aggressive, I feel like a million bucks. Test blows any ph put of the water on just how f*cling good I feel, I can't wait to really start feeling it kick in. I honestly feel invincible right now. No weird side effect feeling, no lethargy, I feel like I could go for hours. This is awesome so far.

 

[delsolrob]

So I'm sitting here in between sets of my back workout, and I feel so goddamn good. I feel like my muscles are super full, I just wanna keep addin mote weight to my lifts, super alpha/aggressive, I feel like a million bucks. Test blows any ph put of the water on just how f*cling good I feel, I can't wait to really start feeling it kick in. I honestly feel invincible right now. No weird side effect feeling, no lethargy, I feel like I could go for hours. This is awesome so far.

damn, you might be convincing me to pin...

 

[GMG760]

damn, you might be convincing me to pin...

If u r gonna cycle again you really should. It's painless, my lady is goin to nursing school and already has her phlebotomy liscence, so after the first 2 times she has just offered to do it and its even easier when you have someone else do it. I'm down to help you out your first couple times if the injection is the difficult part to get past, it's honestly no big deal. I use 23 gauge and it's pain free, you could get away with 25s and that would be even less of a prick.

 

[thundergod]

So I'm sitting here in between sets of my back workout, and I feel so goddamn good. I feel like my muscles are super full, I just wanna keep addin mote weight to my lifts, super alpha/aggressive, I feel like a million bucks. Test blows any ph put of the water on just how f*cling good I feel, I can't wait to really start feeling it kick in. I honestly feel invincible right now. No weird side effect feeling, no lethargy, I feel like I could go for hours. This is awesome so far.

Nothing else even mimics it............TEST IS BEST!!!

 

[DonnyG]

GMG your cycle looks great. I had a lot of buddies run Test in the past and they all said the same thing you did. I've been giving the darkside some serious thought, man. Good luck with everything and keep killing it.

 

[GMG760]

GMG your cycle looks great. I had a lot of buddies run Test in the past and they all said the same thing you did. I've been giving the darkside some serious thought, man. Good luck with everything and keep killing it.

The way I see it, ph/ds use is already the dark side, so unless you are literally tested for legal/illegal hormones, why not run what is safer, more effective, and makes you feel good rather than like sh*t? The big stigma comes with the use of needles, which, if used responsibly by adults, is such a non-issue it seems ridiculous to me. It's just a stigma of society that anything with a needle is a million times worse than any pill, which we all know is bs. I think we were all just forcefed D.A.R.E. Propaganda as children of the regan/bush sr. Generation, which grouped steroid users with heroin junkies.

 

[gaijininjapan]

This is the same way I feel about it. I'm prepping for my first test cycle too, although I'll be using a test blend.

subbed.

 

[DonnyG]

GMG I got your PM and I'll be up that way this week. I'll stay in contact with you bro. Keep killing it.

 

[GMG760]

Let me know homie.

So the cycle is going good so far, I have gained about 8 lbs already, I am sitting at 209 as of this morning. Pretty freaking rediculous for 2 weeks if you ask me. But then again, I have been dead on my diet, no cheating yet this cycle, which is usually an issue for me. I have been spending extra time and effort to bring in healthy food for my snacks and lunches at work, and have really seemed to get my carb timing down.

My workouts have been extraordinary, I had to go to a different gym this past sunday to get legs and shoulders. I don't like straying from my "dungeon" of an old school gym, but my gym closes early on saturday and sunday nights, so I couldn't get in after work. The new gym had a squat machine (something that has never existed at any previous gym I have been to), and I think those things have to be the easiest way to stack a lot of weight on the same movement as a squat. I can squat about 275-300 for a couple reps raw, 315 for reps on a smith, but on this thing I put on 5 plates a side for 6. I know that this doesn't count as a real lift or squat, but my legs really seemed to like the extra weight that would have just folded me in half otherwise. They only have dumbells and a machine shoulder press (f*cking kills me that how crappy some of these new school gyms are set up) so my shoulders had quite a different work out than normal. I have to say that I was pretty pissed the entire time I was at that gym, being that my normal routine was so screwed over, but the next day I was sore as a mofo, so I guess the change up was for the best.

On another note, I tested my bodyfat and it has dropped from 11- 9.5. I dont trust machines to be accurate in the actual reading, but the same machine should show an accurate change between one reading to another. I may not be 9.5 but I definitely dropped 1.5%. Either way I am lean as ever and MUCH heavier than I have been. And I still have 12-13 weeks of this sunuvabiatch left. Good things my friends... good things.

HCG is going good, no atrophy yet, no shutdown yet... libido is kicking 110%.

My girlfriend is privy to this cycle and has this idea that she should run HCG since it's at the house and has read about the diet. Now, I can readily get HCG, so the supply isn't an issue, I just just kinda feel that the HCG diet is a fad/crash diet. do you guys have any opinions? I feel a bit of a hypocrite sticking myself 5 times a week and telling her she cant... she did have reservations about me running test, and allowed me to do so anyway, very supportively I might add... so I want to be equally supportive in her experimentation/fitness efforts... She is pretty knowledgeable about fitness and dieting, she IS a personal trainer, but I just feel that my 5+ years of study within this hormone game gives me more of an understanding about what I am doing to myself... I don't know if she has the proper knowledge to utilize this HCG correctly... I mean, she can follow instructions to a T, so maybe I should just do the research, but as a generality, that is a no-no for hormone use, you should know the facts and myths yourself before you go injecting yourself with drugs of any kind. I am going to let her make her own choice, but if any of you have an opinion, I would love to hear it/share it with her.

Lastly... I have nolva, clomid, Adex, and access to any natty test booster on the market ( I do like recycle though by purus... it was great in my last PCT... but that was DS/PH)... how do you guys think I should set it up.

Nolva or clomid solo, or in conjunction? I wasn't going to use an AI, but would it be better to inversely use the AI during PCT as well? I am prepared to do my PCT with confidence the way I planned it, but I'd love to hear some opinions as well.

BTW - Deadlift record last week. Pulled 465x3 raw. No straps or belt. Gonna belt/strap up and hit that 500 this cycle. THATS A MOTHERF*CKIN PROMISE!

 

[GMG760]

This is the same way I feel about it. I'm prepping for my first test cycle too, although I'll be using a test blend.

subbed.

Which blend? T500? I mean.. sustanon (what I am running) is a test blend as well. 4 esters of testosterone.

 

[oufinny]

GMG, this is from the Iron Mag Labs forum and is for Test E/C but it should work fine for sustanon though your waiting period for long ester to clear may be longer. Here it is:

I recommend the following PCT protocol for esters like Cypionate and Enanthate;

While the aas ester is clearing : 2500iu HCG every third day for 2 weeks. (You may use less HCG if your testes are normal in size AND you have been using HCG on cycle, i.e. 1,000iu HCG etd.)

100/100/100/50 Clomid (50mg taken twice per day weeks 1-3 after the aas ester clears)
20mg/20mg/20mg Aromasin (20mg daily for 3 weeks)

3g Vit C every day split in 3 doses
10g creatine daily

 

[chocolatemilk]

dude i've talked to a few girl that have done the diet, they hate hCG after that experience lol. get's em into prego mode.

i would ask her to just TRY the hCG diet without the hCG and she will lose weight that way regardless lol have you ever even seen the diet? it's retarded low in calories. there is absolutely no evidence AT ALL that shows hCG helps in fat loss. she will get results on that diet without it...

 

[oufinny]

dude i've talked to a few girl that have done the diet, they hate hCG after that experience lol. get's em into prego mode.

i would ask her to just TRY the hCG diet without the hCG and she will lose weight that way regardless lol have you ever even seen the diet? it's retarded low in calories. there is absolutely no evidence AT ALL that shows hCG helps in fat loss. she will get results on that diet without it...

It is just like Lyle McDonald's Rapid Fat Loss diet, crazy low cals will make anyone lose fat.

 

[gaijininjapan]

Being in SD, you're really close to the border, and prolly have access to a lot more than I do. I'm planning to run andropen, which is a blend of 5 test esters. 550/wk.

for PCT, I'm going to run PP's TRS and Nolva.

I also have some exemestane and var coming in. Not sure if I want to use var as a finisher or not, and not sure where to place the exemestane yet... I'm on the border of whether or not I want to run HCG, or if it's even needed with this cycle, but as the previous poster stated already, if you used it during your cycle, then you need much less during PCT.

Oh, and girls are lucky. To lose fat, just eat a whole lot less. not like they're going to be too concerned with losing a few lbs of muscle... Then again, you can always suggest using var. LOL

 

[thundergod]

My girlfriend is privy to this cycle and has this idea that she should run HCG since it's at the house and has read about the diet. Now, I can readily get HCG, so the supply isn't an issue, I just just kinda feel that the HCG diet is a fad/crash diet. do you guys have any opinions? I feel a bit of a hypocrite sticking myself 5 times a week and telling her she cant... she did have reservations about me running test, and allowed me to do so anyway, very supportively I might add... so I want to be equally supportive in her experimentation/fitness efforts... She is pretty knowledgeable about fitness and dieting, she IS a personal trainer, but I just feel that my 5+ years of study within this hormone game gives me more of an understanding about what I am doing to myself... I don't know if she has the proper knowledge to utilize this HCG correctly... I mean, she can follow instructions to a T, so maybe I should just do the research, but as a generality, that is a no-no for hormone use, you should know the facts and myths yourself before you go injecting yourself with drugs of any kind. I am going to let her make her own choice, but if any of you have an opinion, I would love to hear it/share it with her.

I don't think there would be any harm in her running that HCG diet. I have seen quite a bit on it lately. A woman doctor in my area is always on local TV talking about how great that diet is. She shows lots of her patients and they all seem to respond very positively to this protocol.

But you are dead on in saying that she herself needs to do intensive research as to what this compound can do to her system.
Knowledge is power!!

 

[thundergod]

GMG, this is from the Iron Mag Labs forum and is for Test E/C but it should work fine for sustanon though your waiting period for long ester to clear may be longer. Here it is:

I recommend the following PCT protocol for esters like Cypionate and Enanthate;

While the aas ester is clearing : 2500iu HCG every third day for 2 weeks. (You may use less HCG if your testes are normal in size AND you have been using HCG on cycle, i.e. 1,000iu HCG etd.)

100/100/100/50 Clomid (50mg taken twice per day weeks 1-3 after the aas ester clears)
20mg/20mg/20mg Aromasin (20mg daily for 3 weeks)

3g Vit C every day split in 3 doses
10g creatine daily

I can agree with everything here except that Clomid dosing. I would never run it that high for that length of time.
100 mg daily is a big dose that may come with vision and depressive mood sides.
I would run the Clomid like this: 50/50/25/25
That's really all that's needed in the Clomid department.

 

[oufinny]

I can agree with everything here except that Clomid dosing. I would never run it that high for that length of time.
100 mg daily is a big dose that may come with vision and depressive mood sides.
I would run the Clomid like this: 50/50/25/25
That's really all that's needed in the Clomid department.

I was hoping you would chime in. Last time I took Clomid when I was really shut down it took 100mgs for 4-5 days to get me jumpstarted then I dropped it down. That protocol is pretty aggressive but it is meant for a first cycle where getting you back is the key factor. I simply posted it as a possibility, each person of course is different and I think the creatine dose is a bit high too. As always, TG brings some good input!

 

[thundergod]

I was hoping you would chime in. Last time I took Clomid when I was really shut down it took 100mgs for 4-5 days to get me jumpstarted then I dropped it down. That protocol is pretty aggressive but it is meant for a first cycle where getting you back is the key factor. I simply posted it as a possibility, each person of course is different and I think the creatine dose is a bit high too. As always, TG brings some good input!

Thanks, oufinny. I try. lol
I've ran enough Clomid to know what I'm talking about here. 50mg daily is plenty. But like you said, it's okay to high-dose it for the first 4 or 5 days at 100mg. But then the drop to 50mg daily is prudent.

I feel that we should try to get by with the lowest dose possible on SERMS and AI's.
I only run my adex at .5mg EOD. It works for me. And the gains are better while using lower doses of anti-aromatases.

 

[fueledpassion]

Yeah, anything past 50mg of Clomid is funny business. Massive headaches, blurry vision, random outburst of estrogen, lol.

If this guys doesn't gain weight on that many calories...then something is broke...I'm expecting 20lbs from him!

 

[GMG760]

Well I already gained 9 as of this morning, and am at 211 dry. I think 20 on cycle is achievable. 3 weeks in and only feeling better and bigger! Libido and size are way up, strength is coming on pretty strong. I squatted 315 for 5 for two sets the other night which is a major PR for me. I suck at squats, or at least I have in the past, and putting those three plates on each side (I know it's weak sauce for some of you guys) and seeing the bar flex on my shoulders (not to mention all the eliptical geeks staring from upstairs) made me feel pretty good. Vascularity is out of control. Veins on top of veins when I work out.

So question here: Do I have some really clean gear, or are a lot of people just b*tches about getting pinned? These intramuscular shots are so minor that I wonder how such "alpha" dudes could be such wimps about the shot. Hell, I think I enjoy it in a twisted sort of sense. :twisted:

Lastly, I have only been pinning my glutes. Think I should be pinning my quads too? I have no issues going back and forth from buttcheek to buttcheek, but so far I haven't had a reason to leave the muscle group as the injection site. Am I gonna wind up with (more than a usual cycle's) scar tissue in my glutes from 3 pins a week?

BTW HCG is awesome stuff, libido and no atrophy... what more could I ask for?!

Off to go murder my chest on my day off. This is gonna be a good one!

 

[oufinny]

Being that I am going to DO my first cycle and have not DONE one, I can only say what I have read. Spreading out your pin locations lowers the prevalence of scar tissue so that is why a lot of guys rotate glutes, delts and quads; again, per what I have read and been told. If I was pinning prop or tren ace ED or EOD, I would surely rotate but you have E4D for your shots so maybe that rotation is not needed. TG may be able to chime in or some of the other experienced guys. I did read a very informative study yesterday showing that aspirating when pinning is not only not needed but has little to know benefit for IM injections.

Here is the post it came from for those that may question the above statement (from Iron Mags Labs forum, moderator posted this):

Several reasons....

They don't even teach RNs to aspirate any more.

The EBP and ACIP also do not recommend aspiration. Some argue not to aspirate vaccines, but to aspirate other drugs. Jet injections are not aspirated though. I know many who have been using AAS ED for many many years who have yet to aspirate.

According to the CDC they state-

"Aspiration - Aspiration is the process of pulling back on the plunger of the syringe prior to injection to ensure that the medication is not injected into a blood vessel. Although this practice is advocated by some experts, the procedure is not required because no large blood vessels exist at the recommended injection sites."

"Aspiration is not indicated for SC injections of vaccines, immunizations and insulin."

"Aspiration is not indicated for IM injections."




STTI International Nursing Research Congress Vancouver, July 2009

Organizations which state aspiration is NOT necessary:

Centers for Disease Control (CDC)
Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP)
Department of Health Services (DHS)
American Academy of Family Physicians (AAFP)
U.K. Department of Health (DoH)
World Health Organization (WHO)

I wouldn't argue with them. ^

 

[fueledpassion]

Haha, try pinning 100mg of Prop EOD in the legs and shoulders and tell me u dont hurt! Long esters are nothing compared to the pain I experienced from prop! Granted, mine might've been a little dirty, too. Nonetheless, it hurts.

Aspiration is not needed. I pinned EOD and for 2 of those weeks ED of prop for 7 weeks total. Not once did I aspirate. Still alive, no scar tissue, etc.

Man, listening to this makes me excited about my next cycle of Test/EQ/SD and I'm not even half way thru my current PCT! On my last cycle my strength was enormous. I eventually hit 345 on squats and 355 on stiff-leg deads. But dont expect to keep all of the strength..it just wont stay brotha lol.

 

[GMG760]

Haha, try pinning 100mg of Prop EOD in the legs and shoulders and tell me u dont hurt! Long esters are nothing compared to the pain I experienced from prop! Granted, mine might've been a little dirty, too. Nonetheless, it hurts.

Aspiration is not needed. I pinned EOD and for 2 of those weeks ED of prop for 7 weeks total. Not once did I aspirate. Still alive, no scar tissue, etc.

Man, listening to this makes me excited about my next cycle of Test/EQ/SD and I'm not even half way thru my current PCT! On my last cycle my strength was enormous. I eventually hit 345 on squats and 355 on stiff-leg deads. But dont expect to keep all of the strength..it just wont stay brotha lol.

I figure I'll enjoy it while it lasts and keep what I can. Sounds like a fun cycle. I hear mixed opinions about bold. The hunger and the red bloodcell count should be awesome but I hear it's also not the best for you either... No way to really know without trying though, so I'm sure someday curiosity will kill the cat so to speak.

I'm probably going to use propinate next, so I guess I'll have to find out next year if I am pre-judging the pain. There is 60mg prop/ml in my sustanon, not 100mg, but I am also injecting nearly eod too, I can't imagine that clean gear would hurt too much worse, even with one more shot a week and double the prop. per shot. Maybe I am jumping the gun though, so I'll have to wait and see.

 

[CopyCat]

Being that I am going to DO my first cycle and have not DONE one, I can only say what I have read. Spreading out your pin locations lowers the prevalence of scar tissue so that is why a lot of guys rotate glutes, delts and quads; again, per what I have read and been told. If I was pinning prop or tren ace ED or EOD, I would surely rotate but you have E4D for your shots so maybe that rotation is not needed. TG may be able to chime in or some of the other experienced guys. I did read a very informative study yesterday showing that aspirating when pinning is not only not needed but has little to know benefit for IM injections. I have seen, and in some cases aspirated blood in every location that people pin in (glutes, delts, quads, and more). It's not a difficult thing to do and I can do it one handed every time. IMO there is no reason not to. The one time someone doesn't and they have complications, gets sick, swells up the size of a tangerine or greater and can't pin in that area for some time, they'll wish they had.

Here is the post it came from for those that may question the above statement (from Iron Mags Labs forum, moderator posted this):

Several reasons....

They don't even teach RNs to aspirate any more.

The EBP and ACIP also do not recommend aspiration. Some argue not to aspirate vaccines, but to aspirate other drugs. Jet injections are not aspirated though. I know many who have been using AAS ED for many many years who have yet to aspirate.

According to the CDC they state-

"Aspiration - Aspiration is the process of pulling back on the plunger of the syringe prior to injection to ensure that the medication is not injected into a blood vessel. Although this practice is advocated by some experts, the procedure is not required because no large blood vessels exist at the recommended injection sites."

"Aspiration is not indicated for SC injections of vaccines, immunizations and insulin."

"Aspiration is not indicated for IM injections."




STTI International Nursing Research Congress Vancouver, July 2009

Organizations which state aspiration is NOT necessary:

Centers for Disease Control (CDC)
Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP)
Department of Health Services (DHS)
American Academy of Family Physicians (AAFP)
U.K. Department of Health (DoH)
World Health Organization (WHO)

I wouldn't argue with them. ^

As I agree I wouldn't argue with those various health organizations I would like to point out that aspirating will not hurt anything either. I would still recommend to do it. As someone in the health care field, I am sure that I have given more shots, IVs, and blood draws than the majority of people on these boards and can attest that in particular to someone who does not have the experience it should still probably be recommended. As it is still very possible to hit blood vessels and if so, injecting into can lead to a not too pleasant time. Also, some institutions may may recommend to RNs not too, I am certain it is still taught regardless. The one time someone doesn't and they have complications, gets sick, swells up the size of a tangerine or greater and can't pin in that area for some time they'll wish they had.

 

[fueledpassion]

I figure I'll enjoy it while it lasts and keep what I can. Sounds like a fun cycle. I hear mixed opinions about bold. The hunger and the red bloodcell count should be awesome but I hear it's also not the best for you either... No way to really know without trying though, so I'm sure someday curiosity will kill the cat so to speak.

I'm probably going to use propinate next, so I guess I'll have to find out next year if I am pre-judging the pain. There is 60mg prop/ml in my sustanon, not 100mg, but I am also injecting nearly eod too, I can't imagine that clean gear would hurt too much worse, even with one more shot a week and double the prop. per shot. Maybe I am jumping the gun though, so I'll have to wait and see.

ur prop is cut with long esters, thats why it doesnt hurt so bad.

Anyways, in fact the ONLY reason I'm down with EQ is for exactly what u suggested - the pumps and the hunger. Plus, its mild and in my case, its really cheap too. 300Mg/ml goes a long way per vial.