The bullsh*t stops here. GMG760's first inject cycle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by oufinny View Post
    GMG, this is from the Iron Mag Labs forum and is for Test E/C but it should work fine for sustanon though your waiting period for long ester to clear may be longer. Here it is:

    I recommend the following PCT protocol for esters like Cypionate and Enanthate;

    While the aas ester is clearing : 2500iu HCG every third day for 2 weeks. (You may use less HCG if your testes are normal in size AND you have been using HCG on cycle, i.e. 1,000iu HCG etd.)

    100/100/100/50 Clomid (50mg taken twice per day weeks 1-3 after the aas ester clears)
    20mg/20mg/20mg Aromasin (20mg daily for 3 weeks)

    3g Vit C every day split in 3 doses
    10g creatine daily
    I can agree with everything here except that Clomid dosing. I would never run it that high for that length of time.
    100 mg daily is a big dose that may come with vision and depressive mood sides.
    I would run the Clomid like this: 50/50/25/25
    That's really all that's needed in the Clomid department.
    THE PAIN YOU ENDURE TODAY WILL PRODUCE THE POWER YOU ENJOY TOMORROW!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by thundergod View Post
    I can agree with everything here except that Clomid dosing. I would never run it that high for that length of time.
    100 mg daily is a big dose that may come with vision and depressive mood sides.
    I would run the Clomid like this: 50/50/25/25
    That's really all that's needed in the Clomid department.
    I was hoping you would chime in. Last time I took Clomid when I was really shut down it took 100mgs for 4-5 days to get me jumpstarted then I dropped it down. That protocol is pretty aggressive but it is meant for a first cycle where getting you back is the key factor. I simply posted it as a possibility, each person of course is different and I think the creatine dose is a bit high too. As always, TG brings some good input!
    If my direct and cynical approach bothers you, just ignore it. I'm just saying what you need to hear ;).
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    Quote Originally Posted by oufinny View Post
    I was hoping you would chime in. Last time I took Clomid when I was really shut down it took 100mgs for 4-5 days to get me jumpstarted then I dropped it down. That protocol is pretty aggressive but it is meant for a first cycle where getting you back is the key factor. I simply posted it as a possibility, each person of course is different and I think the creatine dose is a bit high too. As always, TG brings some good input!
    Thanks, oufinny. I try. lol
    I've ran enough Clomid to know what I'm talking about here. 50mg daily is plenty. But like you said, it's okay to high-dose it for the first 4 or 5 days at 100mg. But then the drop to 50mg daily is prudent.

    I feel that we should try to get by with the lowest dose possible on SERMS and AI's.
    I only run my adex at .5mg EOD. It works for me. And the gains are better while using lower doses of anti-aromatases.
    THE PAIN YOU ENDURE TODAY WILL PRODUCE THE POWER YOU ENJOY TOMORROW!!

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    Yeah, anything past 50mg of Clomid is funny business. Massive headaches, blurry vision, random outburst of estrogen, lol.

    If this guys doesn't gain weight on that many calories...then something is broke...I'm expecting 20lbs from him!
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    Well I already gained 9 as of this morning, and am at 211 dry. I think 20 on cycle is achievable. 3 weeks in and only feeling better and bigger! Libido and size are way up, strength is coming on pretty strong. I squatted 315 for 5 for two sets the other night which is a major PR for me. I suck at squats, or at least I have in the past, and putting those three plates on each side (I know it's weak sauce for some of you guys) and seeing the bar flex on my shoulders (not to mention all the eliptical geeks staring from upstairs) made me feel pretty good. Vascularity is out of control. Veins on top of veins when I work out.

    So question here: Do I have some really clean gear, or are a lot of people just b*tches about getting pinned? These intramuscular shots are so minor that I wonder how such "alpha" dudes could be such wimps about the shot. Hell, I think I enjoy it in a twisted sort of sense.

    Lastly, I have only been pinning my glutes. Think I should be pinning my quads too? I have no issues going back and forth from buttcheek to buttcheek, but so far I haven't had a reason to leave the muscle group as the injection site. Am I gonna wind up with (more than a usual cycle's) scar tissue in my glutes from 3 pins a week?

    BTW HCG is awesome stuff, libido and no atrophy... what more could I ask for?!

    Off to go murder my chest on my day off. This is gonna be a good one!
    ...GMG760 Version 2.0 ... Back from the dead.
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    Being that I am going to DO my first cycle and have not DONE one, I can only say what I have read. Spreading out your pin locations lowers the prevalence of scar tissue so that is why a lot of guys rotate glutes, delts and quads; again, per what I have read and been told. If I was pinning prop or tren ace ED or EOD, I would surely rotate but you have E4D for your shots so maybe that rotation is not needed. TG may be able to chime in or some of the other experienced guys. I did read a very informative study yesterday showing that aspirating when pinning is not only not needed but has little to know benefit for IM injections.

    Here is the post it came from for those that may question the above statement (from Iron Mags Labs forum, moderator posted this):

    Several reasons....

    They don't even teach RNs to aspirate any more.

    The EBP and ACIP also do not recommend aspiration. Some argue not to aspirate vaccines, but to aspirate other drugs. Jet injections are not aspirated though. I know many who have been using AAS ED for many many years who have yet to aspirate.

    According to the CDC they state-

    "Aspiration - Aspiration is the process of pulling back on the plunger of the syringe prior to injection to ensure that the medication is not injected into a blood vessel. Although this practice is advocated by some experts, the procedure is not required because no large blood vessels exist at the recommended injection sites."

    "Aspiration is not indicated for SC injections of vaccines, immunizations and insulin."

    "Aspiration is not indicated for IM injections."




    STTI International Nursing Research Congress Vancouver, July 2009

    Organizations which state aspiration is NOT necessary:

    Centers for Disease Control (CDC)
    Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP)
    Department of Health Services (DHS)
    American Academy of Family Physicians (AAFP)
    U.K. Department of Health (DoH)
    World Health Organization (WHO)

    I wouldn't argue with them. ^

    If my direct and cynical approach bothers you, just ignore it. I'm just saying what you need to hear ;).
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    Haha, try pinning 100mg of Prop EOD in the legs and shoulders and tell me u dont hurt! Long esters are nothing compared to the pain I experienced from prop! Granted, mine might've been a little dirty, too. Nonetheless, it hurts.

    Aspiration is not needed. I pinned EOD and for 2 of those weeks ED of prop for 7 weeks total. Not once did I aspirate. Still alive, no scar tissue, etc.

    Man, listening to this makes me excited about my next cycle of Test/EQ/SD and I'm not even half way thru my current PCT! On my last cycle my strength was enormous. I eventually hit 345 on squats and 355 on stiff-leg deads. But dont expect to keep all of the strength..it just wont stay brotha lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    Haha, try pinning 100mg of Prop EOD in the legs and shoulders and tell me u dont hurt! Long esters are nothing compared to the pain I experienced from prop! Granted, mine might've been a little dirty, too. Nonetheless, it hurts.

    Aspiration is not needed. I pinned EOD and for 2 of those weeks ED of prop for 7 weeks total. Not once did I aspirate. Still alive, no scar tissue, etc.

    Man, listening to this makes me excited about my next cycle of Test/EQ/SD and I'm not even half way thru my current PCT! On my last cycle my strength was enormous. I eventually hit 345 on squats and 355 on stiff-leg deads. But dont expect to keep all of the strength..it just wont stay brotha lol.
    I figure I'll enjoy it while it lasts and keep what I can. Sounds like a fun cycle. I hear mixed opinions about bold. The hunger and the red bloodcell count should be awesome but I hear it's also not the best for you either... No way to really know without trying though, so I'm sure someday curiosity will kill the cat so to speak.

    I'm probably going to use propinate next, so I guess I'll have to find out next year if I am pre-judging the pain. There is 60mg prop/ml in my sustanon, not 100mg, but I am also injecting nearly eod too, I can't imagine that clean gear would hurt too much worse, even with one more shot a week and double the prop. per shot. Maybe I am jumping the gun though, so I'll have to wait and see.
    ...GMG760 Version 2.0 ... Back from the dead.
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    Quote Originally Posted by oufinny View Post
    Being that I am going to DO my first cycle and have not DONE one, I can only say what I have read. Spreading out your pin locations lowers the prevalence of scar tissue so that is why a lot of guys rotate glutes, delts and quads; again, per what I have read and been told. If I was pinning prop or tren ace ED or EOD, I would surely rotate but you have E4D for your shots so maybe that rotation is not needed. TG may be able to chime in or some of the other experienced guys. I did read a very informative study yesterday showing that aspirating when pinning is not only not needed but has little to know benefit for IM injections. I have seen, and in some cases aspirated blood in every location that people pin in (glutes, delts, quads, and more). It's not a difficult thing to do and I can do it one handed every time. IMO there is no reason not to. The one time someone doesn't and they have complications, gets sick, swells up the size of a tangerine or greater and can't pin in that area for some time, they'll wish they had.

    Here is the post it came from for those that may question the above statement (from Iron Mags Labs forum, moderator posted this):

    Several reasons....

    They don't even teach RNs to aspirate any more.

    The EBP and ACIP also do not recommend aspiration. Some argue not to aspirate vaccines, but to aspirate other drugs. Jet injections are not aspirated though. I know many who have been using AAS ED for many many years who have yet to aspirate.

    According to the CDC they state-

    "Aspiration - Aspiration is the process of pulling back on the plunger of the syringe prior to injection to ensure that the medication is not injected into a blood vessel. Although this practice is advocated by some experts, the procedure is not required because no large blood vessels exist at the recommended injection sites."

    "Aspiration is not indicated for SC injections of vaccines, immunizations and insulin."

    "Aspiration is not indicated for IM injections."




    STTI International Nursing Research Congress Vancouver, July 2009

    Organizations which state aspiration is NOT necessary:

    Centers for Disease Control (CDC)
    Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP)
    Department of Health Services (DHS)
    American Academy of Family Physicians (AAFP)
    U.K. Department of Health (DoH)
    World Health Organization (WHO)

    I wouldn't argue with them. ^

    As I agree I wouldn't argue with those various health organizations I would like to point out that aspirating will not hurt anything either. I would still recommend to do it. As someone in the health care field, I am sure that I have given more shots, IVs, and blood draws than the majority of people on these boards and can attest that in particular to someone who does not have the experience it should still probably be recommended. As it is still very possible to hit blood vessels and if so, injecting into can lead to a not too pleasant time. Also, some institutions may may recommend to RNs not too, I am certain it is still taught regardless. The one time someone doesn't and they have complications, gets sick, swells up the size of a tangerine or greater and can't pin in that area for some time they'll wish they had.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMG760 View Post
    I figure I'll enjoy it while it lasts and keep what I can. Sounds like a fun cycle. I hear mixed opinions about bold. The hunger and the red bloodcell count should be awesome but I hear it's also not the best for you either... No way to really know without trying though, so I'm sure someday curiosity will kill the cat so to speak.

    I'm probably going to use propinate next, so I guess I'll have to find out next year if I am pre-judging the pain. There is 60mg prop/ml in my sustanon, not 100mg, but I am also injecting nearly eod too, I can't imagine that clean gear would hurt too much worse, even with one more shot a week and double the prop. per shot. Maybe I am jumping the gun though, so I'll have to wait and see.
    ur prop is cut with long esters, thats why it doesnt hurt so bad.

    Anyways, in fact the ONLY reason I'm down with EQ is for exactly what u suggested - the pumps and the hunger. Plus, its mild and in my case, its really cheap too. 300Mg/ml goes a long way per vial.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CopyCat View Post
    As I agree I wouldn't argue with those various health organizations I would like to point out that aspirating will not hurt anything either. I would still recommend to do it. As someone in the health care field, I am sure that I have given more shots, IVs, and blood draws than the majority of people on these boards and can attest that in particular to someone who does not have the experience it should still probably be recommended. As it is still very possible to hit blood vessels and if so, injecting into can lead to a not too pleasant time. Also, some institutions may may recommend to RNs not too, I am certain it is still taught regardless. The one time someone doesn't and they have complications, gets sick, swells up the size of a tangerine or greater and can't pin in that area for some time they'll wish they had.
    I agree, bro. My wife does my injects for me and she's a nurse..........she always aspirates. Better safe than sorry no matter what the next guy may or may not be doing. It only takes a few seconds to aspirate and avert a bad situation.
    THE PAIN YOU ENDURE TODAY WILL PRODUCE THE POWER YOU ENJOY TOMORROW!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by GMG760 View Post
    What's up guys,

    I've been chilling in the shadows around here for the past year, only popping in here and there with posts, but since I have finally gotten around to starting my first injectable cycle, I thought it was a good time to start logging again.

    If you don't know me from past logs, I'm 28, 201 lbs, 11%bf or so. I've ran various ph/ds cycles over the past four years, and have finally ran out of my stash. I promised myself that I would never run any designers ever again once I ran out of my stash, so here I am.

    I have been preparing for the past 8 weeks, dieting (lean bulk), getting my bloods done, and finally getting my gear!

    I am going to run my cycle like this:

    12-14 weeks (not sure... I have 15 weeks worth of test, but I don't know if I am going to change doses or just decide to be done at any given time... I am allowing myself to have enough to run it long, but leaving the option for myself to stop at 3 months if need be.

    The cycle I will be running is Sustanon 300 by delta pharm, with a methyldrostanlone (designer I know, but it is what is left of my stash (1/2 bottle), just enough for three weeks, and I have always wondered how this would be while on test) kicker, and perhaps some tbol during the last 4 weeks. I have the tbol, but it's not a certainty for this cycle.

    I am running 600mg sustanon a week, 3 injections of 200mg, mon/wed/fri . I am currently on my second injection as of 30 minutes ago.
    The methyldrostanlone will be ran 20/20/20 for the first 3 weeks.
    Tbol will be ran at 40/40/40/40 if I decide to run it.
    HCG will be ran at 500iu a week (2x 250iu, tuesday and friday) from weeks 3 on.
    I have Adex that will be used as needed, most likely at .5mg eod if I need it.

    I am using organ shield through the entire cycle.

    PCT consists of nolva at 40/40/20/20 and recycle from purus labs. Any ideas of anything else to add?

    My diet plan consists of around 4500 Kcal a day, split into 6-7 meals. I have been on a 2500 kcal a day diet, so this should be ample calories to feed that testosterone. I am not on a carb restricted diet, but my macros break down to about 50/30/20.

    My workout will consist of my own hybrid of hypertrophy mixed with DC style stretches. You'll get the picture as the log continues.

    From what I have noticed so far, is that my libido immediately skyrocketed... like day 2 has been out of control... must be the test prop, but who knows... maybe it's just placebo.

    As for the injections, I was really intimidated at first, but after the first pin, I realize that it's a breeze. Painless, effortless... almost enjoyable in a sick way. I notice a tightness for the next couple days in my glutes, but that's it. It actually just reminds me that I am on cycle and I get stoked every time I feel the tightness in my glutes.

    I'm stoked to be back, and really, really stoked to finally hop on some test.

    Hope you guys enjoy the show, I'd be happy for everyone to join me in my first journey down the rabbit hole known as gear.

    Time to hit the gym!

    Subscribed Brother! I haven't been on here in forever, but when i saw this thread I had to sub! Give it hell!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by tim1985

    Subscribed Brother! I haven't been on here in forever, but when i saw this thread I had to sub! Give it hell!!!
    Hell yea bud, I finally got up the nerve to pin and it's awesome. Working out really well so far. Glad you're coming along for the ride!
    ...GMG760 Version 2.0 ... Back from the dead.
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    Man, GMG brought me back from the dead. Glad to hear that things are going well and your girlfriend is on board. My wife is still set against it which sucks. She is not hearing the positive and only focuses on the negatives about it.

    I am finally getting back into the swing of things. I hurt my back a few months ago again and needed another spinal injection to make it where I could function. I was only doing my warmup set on squats at 135 and on the 5th rep it felt like someone turned on the pain switch. That, plus a new job, MBA classes and life had me become complacent and I have regressed some. Last week I am getting back into the flow and got my 5 days of workouts in and will be continuing it this week. Unfortunately, I have probably moved up to the high teens in bodyfat, but will be dropping it back down.

    I am really glad to hear things are going well for you and I can't wait to see the changes! Test is best and nothing beats the feeling of being ON.
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    Guess Who Brother........
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    GMG's thread doth verily have resurrection virtue embued within. Several mortals have returned from the dead.
    Welcome back to the land of the living, brothers Silver and Teg.
    THE PAIN YOU ENDURE TODAY WILL PRODUCE THE POWER YOU ENJOY TOMORROW!!

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    Besides simply not teaching them, why would anyone "not" aspirate? For them to claim that no major blood veins run along injection paths so don't worry about it is irresponsible. I have, on numerous occasions, hit a major vein and blood filled the syringe with blood as soon as I aspirated. I don't care where the careless references come from, not aspirating is reckless. It's your life, do what you want, but it takes a second to aspirate and it could save your life.


    Quote Originally Posted by oufinny View Post
    Being that I am going to DO my first cycle and have not DONE one, I can only say what I have read. Spreading out your pin locations lowers the prevalence of scar tissue so that is why a lot of guys rotate glutes, delts and quads; again, per what I have read and been told. If I was pinning prop or tren ace ED or EOD, I would surely rotate but you have E4D for your shots so maybe that rotation is not needed. TG may be able to chime in or some of the other experienced guys. I did read a very informative study yesterday showing that aspirating when pinning is not only not needed but has little to know benefit for IM injections.

    Here is the post it came from for those that may question the above statement (from Iron Mags Labs forum, moderator posted this):

    Several reasons....

    They don't even teach RNs to aspirate any more.

    The EBP and ACIP also do not recommend aspiration. Some argue not to aspirate vaccines, but to aspirate other drugs. Jet injections are not aspirated though. I know many who have been using AAS ED for many many years who have yet to aspirate.

    According to the CDC they state-

    "Aspiration - Aspiration is the process of pulling back on the plunger of the syringe prior to injection to ensure that the medication is not injected into a blood vessel. Although this practice is advocated by some experts, the procedure is not required because no large blood vessels exist at the recommended injection sites."

    "Aspiration is not indicated for SC injections of vaccines, immunizations and insulin."

    "Aspiration is not indicated for IM injections."




    STTI International Nursing Research Congress Vancouver, July 2009

    Organizations which state aspiration is NOT necessary:

    Centers for Disease Control (CDC)
    Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP)
    Department of Health Services (DHS)
    American Academy of Family Physicians (AAFP)
    U.K. Department of Health (DoH)
    World Health Organization (WHO)

    I wouldn't argue with them. ^

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    Then aspirate if u want to. Nuff said.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitHammer View Post
    Besides simply not teaching them, why would anyone "not" aspirate? For them to claim that no major blood veins run along injection paths so don't worry about it is irresponsible. I have, on numerous occasions, hit a major vein and blood filled the syringe with blood as soon as I aspirated. I don't care where the careless references come from, not aspirating is reckless. It's your life, do what you want, but it takes a second to aspirate and it could save your life.
    Careless reference... I laughed at that, take a look at the references. No one says you have to stop, it is just information for people to read and decide to either follow or not follow. For you, it is 99% of the time not follow and criticize information people post since you are an expert. It is your prerogative so go ahead or you could just post your concerns without having an attitude.
    If my direct and cynical approach bothers you, just ignore it. I'm just saying what you need to hear ;).
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    It will only take one time hitting a vein and then that person will surely aspirate every time in the future.
    I still say aspirate and be on the safe side. It only takes a couple of seconds.


    And I have no attitude. I really do have other people's safety and health in interest.
    THE PAIN YOU ENDURE TODAY WILL PRODUCE THE POWER YOU ENJOY TOMORROW!!

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    No attitude, sorry you read it that way. Didn't know you followed my posts so closely.

    Quote Originally Posted by oufinny View Post
    Careless reference... I laughed at that, take a look at the references. No one says you have to stop, it is just information for people to read and decide to either follow or not follow. For you, it is 99% of the time not follow and criticize information people post since you are an expert. It is your prerogative so go ahead or you could just post your concerns without having an attitude.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thundergod
    It will only take one time hitting a vein and then that person will surely aspirate every time in the future.
    I still say aspirate and be on the safe side. It only takes a couple of seconds.

    And I have no attitude. I really do have other people's safety and health in interest.
    I tend to agree with this, my gf is a nurse and she told me you are pretty much nuts not to aspirate since there is no harm in it, if you know how to inject correctly there should be no movement of the needle, etc... I figure to usually err on the side of murphy's law, and I usually try to assume that Murphy was an optimist.
    ...GMG760 Version 2.0 ... Back from the dead.
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    Just got caught up. Excellent gains G! I have no opinions on the aspiration thing. When I did my run many, many moons ago I was hit and miss with it. Some days I would just forget to, some days I pulled the needle out and blood came out with it and ran down my butt cheek. Never had a bad experience from it though so maybe I went through a vein but was not in the vein when I pushed the plunger. Who Knows...
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMG760

    The way I see it, ph/ds use is already the dark side, so unless you are literally tested for legal/illegal hormones, why not run what is safer, more effective, and makes you feel good rather than like sh*t? The big stigma comes with the use of needles, which, if used responsibly by adults, is such a non-issue it seems ridiculous to me. It's just a stigma of society that anything with a needle is a million times worse than any pill, which we all know is bs. I think we were all just forcefed D.A.R.E. Propaganda as children of the regan/bush sr. Generation, which grouped steroid users with heroin junkies.
    Amen!
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    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitHammer View Post
    No attitude, sorry you read it that way. Didn't know you followed my posts so closely.
    Nah, just easy to remember since it was in two threads in the same day. All I am doing is adding information, no gun in the fight of what is the best way, people have that choice. I have seen Z track injections done with and without aspiration by doctors/nurses and had them done to me without it recently. Not sure if it was right method or not but it seems it is up to the injector what their preference is.
    If my direct and cynical approach bothers you, just ignore it. I'm just saying what you need to hear ;).
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    As far as letting your girl stick herself with HGC the diet alone will drop weight. Have her run that first. If she still wants to play with hormones have her run the sublingual version. I heard the doseage is a lot lower. I know a couple of chicks who've lost 50+ pounds on a HCG sublingually in two months. Freggin nuts. I tried the drops just for the sake of seeing if they did anything and maybe it was placebo but my libido was up for a week from three days of drops. Again sorry I couldn't post a dose.
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    Quote Originally Posted by analogsubstnz
    As far as letting your girl stick herself with HGC the diet alone will drop weight. Have her run that first. If she still wants to play with hormones have her run the sublingual version. I heard the doseage is a lot lower. I know a couple of chicks who've lost 50+ pounds on a HCG sublingually in two months. Freggin nuts. I tried the drops just for the sake of seeing if they did anything and maybe it was placebo but my libido was up for a week from three days of drops. Again sorry I couldn't post a dose.
    Thanks for the info, and upon further research I think she is going to be trying other methods to losing bf% before messing with hcg. She's all of 110 lbs anyway, she maybe could lose 3-7 lbs before she would simply vanish anyway lol. I think she's crazy to try to lose wight other than recomp, but she thinks I'm borderline nuts for juicing, so fair is fair. She has been actually really supportive of this cycle and a real help too, so I will let her do what she wants as long as she does the research to back up whatever she tries.
    ...GMG760 Version 2.0 ... Back from the dead.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thundergod View Post
    GMG's thread doth verily have resurrection virtue embued within. Several mortals have returned from the dead.
    Welcome back to the land of the living, brothers Silver and Teg.
    Thanks Big Bad Daddy!!! I Miss this place so much and boy O boy do i have a story to tell..... Ill get back to lifting someday


    I just wouldnt have thought it would take G this long to pin!! LOL..... Good Luck Brother!! Im Right There With Ya As We All Are!!!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by oufinny View Post
    Nah, just easy to remember since it was in two threads in the same day. All I am doing is adding information, no gun in the fight of what is the best way, people have that choice. I have seen Z track injections done with and without aspiration by doctors/nurses and had them done to me without it recently. Not sure if it was right method or not but it seems it is up to the injector what their preference is.
    In all the studies cited (I looked them all up) the only reason for "not" aspirating was comfort for the patient when getting immunizations, especially in children. They rationalized that if done right, the depth of the IM should be below any major veins and the risk slight. I should have probably responded with less emotion, but my rationale in support of aspiration is that if you ask anyone who has done this for years, odds are they will tell you of at least one time when they've hit a vein. I know I have more than once and discovered the vein by aspiration. So in my opinion, even if the odds are 500 to 1, you're going to eventually hit that vein. And to add to the concern, I know if I'm blasting, I typically inject 5mL at a time. If I hit a vein and inject 5mL of an oily blend right into a vein, it's dangerous, not to mention the possibility that you didn't get all the air bubbles out. I don't find aspiration to be uncomfortable at all and the added insurance is worth an extra second penetration. So you're right, it's up to the patient. They just need to make an informed decision.
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    I hit a vein once in the quad and the injection wasn't even that deep... thank god I aspirate every time

    Also I was injecting deca into the bicep and aspirated no blood, but after the injection my heart was racing, i felt lightheaded, sweating, like an anvil had dropped on my chest where breathing was difficult... i think i hit a vein slightly and a tiny amount of oil must have seeped into the vein. worst feeling in the f*cking world. i felt awkward with my breathing the next couple days.

    always aspirate imo
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    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitHammer View Post
    In all the studies cited (I looked them all up) the only reason for "not" aspirating was comfort for the patient when getting immunizations, especially in children. They rationalized that if done right, the depth of the IM should be below any major veins and the risk slight. I should have probably responded with less emotion, but my rationale in support of aspiration is that if you ask anyone who has done this for years, odds are they will tell you of at least one time when they've hit a vein. I know I have more than once and discovered the vein by aspiration. So in my opinion, even if the odds are 500 to 1, you're going to eventually hit that vein. And to add to the concern, I know if I'm blasting, I typically inject 5mL at a time. If I hit a vein and inject 5mL of an oily blend right into a vein, it's dangerous, not to mention the possibility that you didn't get all the air bubbles out. I don't find aspiration to be uncomfortable at all and the added insurance is worth an extra second penetration. So you're right, it's up to the patient. They just need to make an informed decision.
    It's no biggie, starting intelligent conversation was the point of the post and the fact that I am using this as a learning opportunity I will surely aspirate as I agree, the one time you hit one could be your last. Surprising how it is hit or miss in the medical community with so many lawsuits.
    If my direct and cynical approach bothers you, just ignore it. I'm just saying what you need to hear ;).
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    Quote Originally Posted by oufinny View Post
    It's no biggie, starting intelligent conversation was the point of the post and the fact that I am using this as a learning opportunity I will surely aspirate as I agree, the one time you hit one could be your last. Surprising how it is hit or miss in the medical community with so many lawsuits.
    Aspirating AAS is a good idea because it's oil-based.
    Doctors are usually administering water-based thin liquid medicines. Might not be as big as deal hitting a vein with those thin fluids.
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    I think it's best to stick with locale that you know is clear of veins. I can always tell when I hit a large vein anyways - it hurts and it bleeds quite a bit after pinning. It's not a sharp pain, but something else. I cannot explain really but usually when I feel that pain I either do one of two things:

    1) Keep pressing the pin into my arm/leg and go through the vein or
    2) Pull back a few mm's and plunge (usually I only do this option if the needle is already at least 1 inch in.
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    Sorry for the lack of updates lately guys. I've been working a bunch but getting in some really crazy workouts. My gains hovered at about 9 lbs for a week, then I upped my dose for my 3rd and fourth weeks of Tbol to 60 mg. This seems to be a sweeter spot for me. I had thought the test was kicking in earlier but now it seems to be really cranking. My lifts are all going up, squats are at 315 for reps of 5 and climbing. My bak workouts are getting redonkulous too, I have been doing reps of 10 with a plate belted to me on pull ups, my pulldowns I can rep the entire stack (270) for 10, my tbar row last time u got up to 5 plates for 4. Chest and shoulders are gaining as well, not quite as exponentially as my back and legs, but fast none the less. What I can't believe is that I'm barely 1/3 into this beast!

    No real sides so far, just a crazy libido (hgc and test is rad), a lot of muscle definition and size, and a bit of aggression... But not temper. I'm pretty patient and happy all day until I turn the metal up in the headphones and start tossing iron around. People are noticing my gains, I'm getting compliments left and right at work/gym. I have gotten a few pimples from the cycle, but in weird places like my knees or calves. Mostly on my legs actually, which is not common at all for me. Not really sure why they are showing up there, but not enough to care about.

    Weighed in at 211 this morning. I seemed to immediately blow up from the Tbol, and now the gains are slow and steadier. Gotta get back to work. But ill update more in a few.
    ...GMG760 Version 2.0 ... Back from the dead.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitHammer View Post
    In all the studies cited (I looked them all up) the only reason for "not" aspirating was comfort for the patient when getting immunizations, especially in children. They rationalized that if done right, the depth of the IM should be below any major veins and the risk slight. I should have probably responded with less emotion, but my rationale in support of aspiration is that if you ask anyone who has done this for years, odds are they will tell you of at least one time when they've hit a vein. I know I have more than once and discovered the vein by aspiration. So in my opinion, even if the odds are 500 to 1, you're going to eventually hit that vein. And to add to the concern, I know if I'm blasting, I typically inject 5mL at a time. If I hit a vein and inject 5mL of an oily blend right into a vein, it's dangerous, not to mention the possibility that you didn't get all the air bubbles out. I don't find aspiration to be uncomfortable at all and the added insurance is worth an extra second penetration. So you're right, it's up to the patient. They just need to make an informed decision.
    Not really a concern. A few small air bubbles that you might get from an injection won't cause an embolism, especially in a young healthy person. It actually takes quite a bit of air to cause an embolism, like an entire syringe full of air.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMG760 View Post
    Sorry for the lack of updates lately guys. I've been working a bunch but getting in some really crazy workouts. My gains hovered at about 9 lbs for a week, then I upped my dose for my 3rd and fourth weeks of Tbol to 60 mg. This seems to be a sweeter spot for me. I had thought the test was kicking in earlier but now it seems to be really cranking. My lifts are all going up, squats are at 315 for reps of 5 and climbing. My bak workouts are getting redonkulous too, I have been doing reps of 10 with a plate belted to me on pull ups, my pulldowns I can rep the entire stack (270) for 10, my tbar row last time u got up to 5 plates for 4. Chest and shoulders are gaining as well, not quite as exponentially as my back and legs, but fast none the less. What I can't believe is that I'm barely 1/3 into this beast!

    No real sides so far, just a crazy libido (hgc and test is rad), a lot of muscle definition and size, and a bit of aggression... But not temper. I'm pretty patient and happy all day until I turn the metal up in the headphones and start tossing iron around. People are noticing my gains, I'm getting compliments left and right at work/gym. I have gotten a few pimples from the cycle, but in weird places like my knees or calves. Mostly on my legs actually, which is not common at all for me. Not really sure why they are showing up there, but not enough to care about.

    Weighed in at 211 this morning. I seemed to immediately blow up from the Tbol, and now the gains are slow and steadier. Gotta get back to work. But ill update more in a few.
    Sounds like things are going well for you brother, 9lbs in 3 weeks is nothing to snuff at. Keep killing it man!
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    aspiration will not guarantee not to hit a vein, since you will not be able to keep the syringe completely steady, there is always at least a very small movement going on, and you can easily slip into a vein.
    if hitting a vein would kill you then there would be very many guys dead.

    also as for the air, some airbubbles are completely irrelevant, i think its around 20ml of air to kill you. thats 4 5ml syringes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tim1985

    Sounds like things are going well for you brother, 9lbs in 3 weeks is nothing to snuff at. Keep killing it man!
    Well it's more like 11 in 4. My Tbol started week 2 as I decided against the superdrol. Now I just have to keep up what I got going and see where it takes me. I feel great, and I am strong as ever.

    I just switched vials/brands of sustanon and I'm not sure if I bruised myself on the inject, hit a spot too close to the previous Inject or If the gear is just a bit more painful than before, but this last pin has got me much more sore. I don't think it's infected, I don't see how that would have happened, but I have antibiotics and am prepared to take them in two days if this ends up being the case. We'll find out I guess. If anyone has any insight I'd be game to hear it. Btw, no redness indication infection as of now.
    ...GMG760 Version 2.0 ... Back from the dead.
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    Some people actually keep a SMALL tiny amount of air in the syringe to push all the contents out, since a small tiny bubble won't hurt you if it's an IM injection. This is why you'd aspirate, in case you hit a vein large enough to matter. I doubt moving the needle a bit can cause puncture of a vein large enough to really matter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GMG760 View Post
    Well it's more like 11 in 4. My Tbol started week 2 as I decided against the superdrol. Now I just have to keep up what I got going and see where it takes me. I feel great, and I am strong as ever.

    I just switched vials/brands of sustanon and I'm not sure if I bruised myself on the inject, hit a spot too close to the previous Inject or If the gear is just a bit more painful than before, but this last pin has got me much more sore. I don't think it's infected, I don't see how that would have happened, but I have antibiotics and am prepared to take them in two days if this ends up being the case. We'll find out I guess. If anyone has any insight I'd be game to hear it. Btw, no redness indication infection as of now.
    I doubt its infected bro, the gear is probably just more painful.
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