first cycle dbol test and deca...is nolva and good test booster alone enough for pct?
- Thread starter YoungHoss
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builtlikeben
New member
I would use Arimidex. It actually inhibits aromatase, preventing the formation of estrogen and helps limit water weight gain (puffiness). My buddy did a similar cycle for his first and had tremendous gains. (30mg D-Bol/ 300 Test) and ate pretty clean (only oatmeal for breakfast and post-workout carb/ protein shake...the rest was meat and veggies). His gains we solid and not water (about 10 Kilos/ 22 pounds). He only lost about 3 pounds with the pct of HCG.
Matt, PhD
Matt, PhD
Last edited:
DetroitHammer
Well-known member
If you didn't include the deca, I'd say your cycle looks pretty good, but missing HCG during cycle. But since you include deca, no SERM/AI is going to help you with E2 issues. Why you would risk so much on your first cycle is beyond me. They don't call it deca d ick for nothing.
Any SERM should be sufficient with 500mgs of test per week. Keeping in mind you're only targeting receptors in the breast, not the whole body. An AI would zap 98% of estrogen due to aromatization. But if you add deca, you're playing Russian Roulette.
DetroitHammer
Well-known member
There isn't one. You run deca you roll the dice and hope for the best.
heckler7
Active member
absolutely, but if you had no problems you may not be prone to the sides. I say run it!
heckler7
Active member
first time. drop the deca. we need your stats.
lennoxchi
Well-known member
good question. how do you know estrogen sides are arising? i hate answering a question with a question but the sides are somewhat similar, you will know for sure when your nipples start leaking milk and you have to go buy pasties so your gym shirt doesn't get wet.
Big boy D
Member
That kinda sound kinky! Maybe my girl would like that. Maybe not. Lol. Has that happen to you? I would think at that point you would have had some other symptoms first. A buddy told me the chest gets really itchy. My nips were getting itchy but I was also sun tanning at the time. I waited it out to see if I had burnt my nips a bit in the tanning both. That must have been it because it went away. There must be signs to look for.
DetroitHammer
Well-known member
What's better to run besides deca? Anything, even peanut butter.
lennoxchi
Well-known member
DetroitHammer
Well-known member
What exactly do you think deca does and I'll tell you what I would take instead. If you wander into a drug den and everyone is shooting heroin, that doesn't make it right; it just means that everyone is shooting heroin. Deca became popular in the late 80's/early 90's based on several misconceptions. Its popularity faded, then for some unexplainable reason, resurfaced as some kind of "must-have" drug in your cycle. I've posted numerous reason why deca is bad and I can't waste bandwidth re-posting the same thing over and over again. If you want deca, take it. You may not even notice the sides; then again, there's the case of the 19 year old...
DetroitHammer
Well-known member
The medical establishment gives Stanzabol, Testosterone, Nandrolone, etc. for wasting disease because it's anabolic and fights the effects of wasting away. The studies are conducted on patients with basically nothing to lose, and they don't study the effects of ED or lack of libido for obvious reasons. Those doctors that decide to use nandrolone (and I understand it's not FDA approved any longer in the States) do so/did so because those patients may tolerate it better than pure testosterone.
If you want size, then injectable dbol/anadrol will pack it on. Cheque Drops will put you over the top, but it's high risk. Why not just up your test and drop the deca? Mg per mg, test is more potent. And yes I can explain why, but again, I've done so many times before. You apparently think that deca is somehow superior to testosterone, which is not true.
Big boy D
Member
Detroit, this is my first run with supplements like this. I don't know that much really about the stuff. I know what my semi mentor tells me and the small amount of reading on the net. I know more then the dude that don't do them but it's obvious to me that you are far superior in the knowledge of aas then me. That is why I value your input. I never tryed to gain knowledge in this area because I didn't think I would ever use them. The stigma made me stay away until my appetite for size won the match between stigma. My buddy has been on test e for like two years and he seams to think the test hasn't really done anything for him. I have nothing to compare my experiences with so.....
DetroitHammer
Well-known member
I don't mean to knock you down. Sorry if I appear short in my responses. Deca has some bad sides that some tolerate well, while others do not. The sides will occur, it's just the level of deca you can tolerate that is in question. It may not be worth the risk, especially on your first cycle.
Test is the base and will give you almost everything you want. As your first cycle, 500mgs of test, twice a week, will give you amazing results. Just have your gear in order, HCG, AIs, PCT and so on. After a cycle on just test, you can better decide if you want to add something to the mix, like Tren, anadrol, dbol, to name a few. But see how your body reacts to Test, and Test alone. It's the smartest thing to do and I doubt anyone on this forum would disagree with that your first cycle should be just test.
Big boy D
Member
The tren I hear is the worst thing for you as far as sides. The d-Bol and Anadrol you can only take for a month right? And they have some bad sides... From what I hear. I think the deca is ****ing with my sex a bit. Just not working like it should. Still works but it's like the stamina isn't there. Harder to get off also. Don't know. The hcg has made a difference. Helps to keep it nice and hard. At least that's how it feels. I am going to cut the deca. Been on it for ten weeks now. I need to bump up the test. I plan on staying on until x-mas and then stop for 60 days. Then back to Anouther cycle. Maybe you can help me with my next cycle. That would be cool. I trust what you tell me.
Blergs
Well-known member
3-4 weeks of 20-30mg nolvadex is fien after cycle for PCT. start it 1-2 weeks AFTER last shot.
T-911 is nice for libido and erections during pct (yohimbine )
*dont us nolva on cycle while on deca
*get somthing to control estrogen/gyno an AI like letro would be ok.
* get somthing to control prog/gyno from the deca liek bromo
and have them on hand incase needed.
if this is your firts cycle i rec you use just test 500mg ew for 14 weeks. then next cycle maybe add one compound.
Blergs
Well-known member
bromo or caber
Blergs
Well-known member
orals like dbol and anadrol are liver toxic, so 4-8weeks of use is ok. i wouldent push passed 8 weeks.
DetroitHammer
Well-known member
Sure the orals are liver toxic, but the damage to the liver is less than daily doses of Ibuprofen and the liver will recover rapidly. I have both adrol and dbol in injectables. Point being, deca is far more damaging to your system than either dbol or adrol, at let's say 50mgs per day, no more than 6 weeks. No matter what you take, there will be some matter of give and take. I have taken tren up to a gram a week and didn't have horrible sides. A gram of tren a week is way too much, by the way.
With the exception of cheque drops, I don't think there's anything I haven't tried. I even have some bolasteron. which was used by the East Germans back in the day. No matter what you want to do, testosterone will get you there. Anything else is supplemental. If you use test, control the E2 and DHT, you'll get where you want to get.
heckler7
Active member
Deca stores water in connective tissue that helps joint pain, improves collagen synthesis and bone mineral content. If your worried about ED issues you can add provirin. Its a 19nor so you will get 19nor sides. Since this is your first cycle you should just run a test only cycle. with your fresh receptors you will yeild great results, and it will cost you far less money.
Big boy D
Member
DetroitHammer said:
How much is a gram in ml? I have some tren e. I think I'm going to just finish up this cycle with 500mgs of test e, and 3 ml of tri test a week I think thats 900 mgs of of the tri. That would bring my test e to 800 mgs a week, test prop to 300mgs a week and test cyp to 300. Should I up the tri or do you think that's a good number?
Mako100
New member
I have taken deca years ago with no problems. That said I am in no way a authority on this stuff but I'd like to know why deca is so bad. I know it can shut you down but so can test.
DetroitHammer
Well-known member
I hate to redirect you, but if you will, please go to the last couple of pages of Morry's log, and I posted a lengthy post about deca and why it's harmful. One problem is the E2 can not be controlled with any conventional AI or SERM. The reason is due to the way it's produced. Blocking the receptors is useless. Also the misconception that it's more potent than test is in error. Deca is actually less potent than testosterone. That, along with the prolactin issues and length of time in the body make it an undesirable drug. The claim that it will promote collagen synthesis is misleading because so will test, at TRT doses (200-300mg). You can go up to cycle doses and add proviron to promote collagen synthesis without the sides. You can also add equip, but I personally am not a fan of equip.
Mako100
New member
Well you def sound like you know this subject.....I'll look it over.......I just never had a problem with it....ever
DetroitHammer
Well-known member
A lot of young guys don't have problems with relatively conservative doses of deca. The sides are still there, but their ability to cope seems more robust. The other issue is that deca sides are usually attributed to something else so the user believes the deca is safe, but that other "gear" is bad or the test is too high, etc. But if you have a positive history of deca use and like it, then just be aware of the latent sides that may surface later. Deca d ick is one of them.
Mako100
New member
"Deca dick is one of them" after cycle like what years?
heckler7
Active member
this is how you waste your third post
Mako100
New member
Sup yo.........take it easy sparky
gaijininjapan
Active member
It should be stated on the gear you have. what concentration did you get? did you fail elementary school math?
if it's 250mg/ml of test-e, then in every ml of oil, you'll get 250mg of test-e, or about 175mg of test due to the ester.
There's a TON of info on this on the web, multiple good forums that have tons of good info. a simple google search will yield numerous results.
Big boy D
Member
gaijininjapan said:
Thanks for the help, but don't you think your being a bit of an ass? Just asking if you see it. Look bud if it was spelled out for me I would be able to tell. It's not.my gear is from a underground lab so the label is basic. But thanks anyways. Man you sound cool, wish I could hang with you because the sec you talked to me like that..... Well I think you know what you would be eating. Size 12
DetroitHammer
Well-known member
What are you trying to convert? As you said, it's written on the face of the vial. If all you have is a 5mL vial, you have no idea what you have inside. I don't understand what medical conversion calculator you could possibly be referring to.
7ten11
Member
I tend to agree with DetroitHammer here.
The other complication as guys are trying to point out is, if on your first cycle you take more then one substance, how will you determine which substance is causing the side effects?
What will you use to combat them if u don't know what's causing them.
Therefore u start off in test & test only as your first cycle to see how your body responds & how it reacts to test.
Then if u find all is good, then next cycle add deca & u start getting itchy nipples for example, u know it's the deca cause you didn't get it with the test.
So u can then try to combat it with the right substance.
Anyway, 500 mg test per week split into two doses for 10/12 weeks with proviron at 25 mg per day & a good pct should be sufficient for your first cycle in my opinion
The other complication as guys are trying to point out is, if on your first cycle you take more then one substance, how will you determine which substance is causing the side effects?
What will you use to combat them if u don't know what's causing them.
Therefore u start off in test & test only as your first cycle to see how your body responds & how it reacts to test.
Then if u find all is good, then next cycle add deca & u start getting itchy nipples for example, u know it's the deca cause you didn't get it with the test.
So u can then try to combat it with the right substance.
Anyway, 500 mg test per week split into two doses for 10/12 weeks with proviron at 25 mg per day & a good pct should be sufficient for your first cycle in my opinion
gaijininjapan
Active member
Yup, I can be an ass at times. Reading about a bunch of 130lb 5'11 17yo's (not you by any means) asking about what the "best" bulking stack is, or "is a blend of test, tren, deca, mast blend with a dbol, SD, tbol, var kicker run for 29wks a good first cycle" tends to make people asses after reading. No hard feelings. Just that what you said made no sense to me, plus, it must've been one of the last posts I made for the night, so I apologize for that if it offended you.
Basically, if you have a vial that just says "test-e, 10ml" Then you really have NO IDEA what the concentration is. could be 1mg/ml, and the entire bottle contains only 10mg of test-e, or it could be some crazy high 500mg/ml, and you'll have 5g in that bottle. Unless you know your source, and are confident of its contents, I wouldn't run it. most UGLs will ahve more info than just that, and will give you a concentration.
Also, as a first cycle, just use ONLY test, as stated above, and by many veterans here. you want to slowly add substances, so you know what works and what doesn't (too many sides). All the gear can exhibit similar sides, and everyone reacts differently. So you need to figure out what's causing the problem when problems arise. Besides, as a first cycle, general consensus is that you'll get PLENTY of gains from test alone, no need to rush. Remember, more is not always better.
Remember the fattys who decided to take 10g's of ephedrine and got heart attacks, thus causing FDA to ban it as a dietary supplement so that we now have to use bronkaid?
heckler7
Active member
I was trying to help out Big Boy D and answer his question. I was letting him know that they also have convesion calculators on medical sites or you could just google whatever you are looking to equate and it should bring up the calculator for future questions. like the question he had about how many mg's in a gram.