first cycle dbol test and deca...is nolva and good test booster alone enough for pct?

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    first cycle dbol test and deca...is nolva and good test booster alone enough for pct?


    I'm about to start my first cycle of 20 dbol, 500 test, and deca...i already have everything including the nolvadex but i was wondering if it alone was enough for a good pct? Also i am 6ft 195 lbs 13%bf..what type of gains should i expect to see overall?

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    No.

    Nolva and clomid for pct. Final 6-8wks of cycle add HCG if u want.
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    thats a pretty heavy cycle for your first. as for pct id go with clomid over nolva due to using a 19nor
    Noob looking for alot of guidance
    I've got a hold of some omnadren 250(is sustanon better?) and I'm pretty much clueless about steroids. All i know about it is that it easily aromatizes and it holds alot of water
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    I would use Arimidex. It actually inhibits aromatase, preventing the formation of estrogen and helps limit water weight gain (puffiness). My buddy did a similar cycle for his first and had tremendous gains. (30mg D-Bol/ 300 Test) and ate pretty clean (only oatmeal for breakfast and post-workout carb/ protein shake...the rest was meat and veggies). His gains we solid and not water (about 10 Kilos/ 22 pounds). He only lost about 3 pounds with the pct of HCG.

    Matt, PhD
    Last edited by builtlikeben; 09-11-2011 at 04:45 AM. Reason: Clarification
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungHoss View Post
    I'm about to start my first cycle of 20 dbol, 500 test, and deca...i already have everything including the nolvadex but i was wondering if it alone was enough for a good pct? Also i am 6ft 195 lbs 13%bf..what type of gains should i expect to see overall?
    If you didn't include the deca, I'd say your cycle looks pretty good, but missing HCG during cycle. But since you include deca, no SERM/AI is going to help you with E2 issues. Why you would risk so much on your first cycle is beyond me. They don't call it deca d ick for nothing.

    Any SERM should be sufficient with 500mgs of test per week. Keeping in mind you're only targeting receptors in the breast, not the whole body. An AI would zap 98% of estrogen due to aromatization. But if you add deca, you're playing Russian Roulette.
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    Ok, what's a good AI to run with deca?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big boy D View Post
    Ok, what's a good AI to run with deca?
    There isn't one. You run deca you roll the dice and hope for the best.
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    What's a better thing to run? If you have run deca and had no problems, could you still have problems?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big boy D View Post
    What's a better thing to run? If you have run deca and had no problems, could you still have problems?
    absolutely, but if you had no problems you may not be prone to the sides. I say run it!
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungHoss View Post
    I'm about to start my first cycle of 20 dbol, 500 test, and deca...i already have everything including the nolvadex but i was wondering if it alone was enough for a good pct? Also i am 6ft 195 lbs 13%bf..what type of gains should i expect to see overall?
    first time. drop the deca. we need your stats.
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    might be a good idea to have prami or caber on hand in case of prolactin sides arise.......
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    How do you know when a prolactin problem is beginning?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big boy D View Post
    How do you know when a prolactin problem is beginning?
    good question. how do you know estrogen sides are arising? i hate answering a question with a question but the sides are somewhat similar, you will know for sure when your nipples start leaking milk and you have to go buy pasties so your gym shirt doesn't get wet.
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    That kinda sound kinky! Maybe my girl would like that. Maybe not. Lol. Has that happen to you? I would think at that point you would have had some other symptoms first. A buddy told me the chest gets really itchy. My nips were getting itchy but I was also sun tanning at the time. I waited it out to see if I had burnt my nips a bit in the tanning both. That must have been it because it went away. There must be signs to look for.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big boy D View Post
    What's a better thing to run? If you have run deca and had no problems, could you still have problems?
    What's better to run besides deca? Anything, even peanut butter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitHammer View Post
    What's better to run besides deca? Anything, even peanut butter.
    lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by lennoxchi

    lol
    What is it with you and deca? Somthing happen? Really, what's better. What's a good bulking cycle. You take a chance jacking up any kind of roid. I just want to know because anyone I have talked to say "deca" I have never Hurd penutbutter . There is eq....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big boy D View Post
    What is it with you and deca? Somthing happen? Really, what's better. What's a good bulking cycle. You take a chance jacking up any kind of roid. I just want to know because anyone I have talked to say "deca" I have never Hurd penutbutter . There is eq....
    What exactly do you think deca does and I'll tell you what I would take instead. If you wander into a drug den and everyone is shooting heroin, that doesn't make it right; it just means that everyone is shooting heroin. Deca became popular in the late 80's/early 90's based on several misconceptions. Its popularity faded, then for some unexplainable reason, resurfaced as some kind of "must-have" drug in your cycle. I've posted numerous reason why deca is bad and I can't waste bandwidth re-posting the same thing over and over again. If you want deca, take it. You may not even notice the sides; then again, there's the case of the 19 year old...
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    Deca is a drug given to HIV patients to help gain weight and muscle. If it works for them I would say it works for a normal dude. So there you go, gaining size. That's one of the main reasons for taking juice. Is there a better supplement. Idk, that's why I ask.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big boy D View Post
    Deca is a drug given to HIV patients to help gain weight and muscle. If it works for them I would say it works for a normal dude. So there you go, gaining size. That's one of the main reasons for taking juice. Is there a better supplement. Idk, that's why I ask.
    The medical establishment gives Stanzabol, Testosterone, Nandrolone, etc. for wasting disease because it's anabolic and fights the effects of wasting away. The studies are conducted on patients with basically nothing to lose, and they don't study the effects of ED or lack of libido for obvious reasons. Those doctors that decide to use nandrolone (and I understand it's not FDA approved any longer in the States) do so/did so because those patients may tolerate it better than pure testosterone.

    If you want size, then injectable dbol/anadrol will pack it on. Cheque Drops will put you over the top, but it's high risk. Why not just up your test and drop the deca? Mg per mg, test is more potent. And yes I can explain why, but again, I've done so many times before. You apparently think that deca is somehow superior to testosterone, which is not true.
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    Detroit, this is my first run with supplements like this. I don't know that much really about the stuff. I know what my semi mentor tells me and the small amount of reading on the net. I know more then the dude that don't do them but it's obvious to me that you are far superior in the knowledge of aas then me. That is why I value your input. I never tryed to gain knowledge in this area because I didn't think I would ever use them. The stigma made me stay away until my appetite for size won the match between stigma. My buddy has been on test e for like two years and he seams to think the test hasn't really done anything for him. I have nothing to compare my experiences with so.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big boy D View Post
    Detroit, this is my first run with supplements like this. I don't know that much really about the stuff. I know what my semi mentor tells me and the small amount of reading on the net. I know more then the dude that don't do them but it's obvious to me that you are far superior in the knowledge of aas then me. That is why I value your input. I never tryed to gain knowledge in this area because I didn't think I would ever use them. The stigma made me stay away until my appetite for size won the match between stigma. My buddy has been on test e for like two years and he seams to think the test hasn't really done anything for him. I have nothing to compare my experiences with so.....
    I don't mean to knock you down. Sorry if I appear short in my responses. Deca has some bad sides that some tolerate well, while others do not. The sides will occur, it's just the level of deca you can tolerate that is in question. It may not be worth the risk, especially on your first cycle.

    Test is the base and will give you almost everything you want. As your first cycle, 500mgs of test, twice a week, will give you amazing results. Just have your gear in order, HCG, AIs, PCT and so on. After a cycle on just test, you can better decide if you want to add something to the mix, like Tren, anadrol, dbol, to name a few. But see how your body reacts to Test, and Test alone. It's the smartest thing to do and I doubt anyone on this forum would disagree with that your first cycle should be just test.
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    The tren I hear is the worst thing for you as far as sides. The d-Bol and Anadrol you can only take for a month right? And they have some bad sides... From what I hear. I think the deca is ****ing with my sex a bit. Just not working like it should. Still works but it's like the stamina isn't there. Harder to get off also. Don't know. The hcg has made a difference. Helps to keep it nice and hard. At least that's how it feels. I am going to cut the deca. Been on it for ten weeks now. I need to bump up the test. I plan on staying on until x-mas and then stop for 60 days. Then back to Anouther cycle. Maybe you can help me with my next cycle. That would be cool. I trust what you tell me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by YoungHoss View Post
    I'm about to start my first cycle of 20 dbol, 500 test, and deca...i already have everything including the nolvadex but i was wondering if it alone was enough for a good pct? Also i am 6ft 195 lbs 13%bf..what type of gains should i expect to see overall?
    3-4 weeks of 20-30mg nolvadex is fien after cycle for PCT. start it 1-2 weeks AFTER last shot.
    T-911 is nice for libido and erections during pct (yohimbine )
    *dont us nolva on cycle while on deca
    *get somthing to control estrogen/gyno an AI like letro would be ok.
    * get somthing to control prog/gyno from the deca liek bromo
    and have them on hand incase needed.

    if this is your firts cycle i rec you use just test 500mg ew for 14 weeks. then next cycle maybe add one compound.
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    These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA, do not constitute medical advice, and are not official or authorized comments by LG Sciences, LLC.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big boy D View Post
    Ok, what's a good AI to run with deca?
    bromo or caber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big boy D View Post
    The tren I hear is the worst thing for you as far as sides. The d-Bol and Anadrol you can only take for a month right? And they have some bad sides... From what I hear. I think the deca is ****ing with my sex a bit. Just not working like it should. Still works but it's like the stamina isn't there. Harder to get off also. Don't know. The hcg has made a difference. Helps to keep it nice and hard. At least that's how it feels. I am going to cut the deca. Been on it for ten weeks now. I need to bump up the test. I plan on staying on until x-mas and then stop for 60 days. Then back to Anouther cycle. Maybe you can help me with my next cycle. That would be cool. I trust what you tell me.
    orals like dbol and anadrol are liver toxic, so 4-8weeks of use is ok. i wouldent push passed 8 weeks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big boy D View Post
    The tren I hear is the worst thing for you as far as sides. The d-Bol and Anadrol you can only take for a month right? And they have some bad sides... From what I hear. I think the deca is ****ing with my sex a bit. Just not working like it should. Still works but it's like the stamina isn't there. Harder to get off also. Don't know. The hcg has made a difference. Helps to keep it nice and hard. At least that's how it feels. I am going to cut the deca. Been on it for ten weeks now. I need to bump up the test. I plan on staying on until x-mas and then stop for 60 days. Then back to Anouther cycle. Maybe you can help me with my next cycle. That would be cool. I trust what you tell me.
    Sure the orals are liver toxic, but the damage to the liver is less than daily doses of Ibuprofen and the liver will recover rapidly. I have both adrol and dbol in injectables. Point being, deca is far more damaging to your system than either dbol or adrol, at let's say 50mgs per day, no more than 6 weeks. No matter what you take, there will be some matter of give and take. I have taken tren up to a gram a week and didn't have horrible sides. A gram of tren a week is way too much, by the way.

    With the exception of cheque drops, I don't think there's anything I haven't tried. I even have some bolasteron. which was used by the East Germans back in the day. No matter what you want to do, testosterone will get you there. Anything else is supplemental. If you use test, control the E2 and DHT, you'll get where you want to get.
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    Deca stores water in connective tissue that helps joint pain, improves collagen synthesis and bone mineral content. If your worried about ED issues you can add provirin. Its a 19nor so you will get 19nor sides. Since this is your first cycle you should just run a test only cycle. with your fresh receptors you will yeild great results, and it will cost you far less money.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitHammer

    Sure the orals are liver toxic, but the damage to the liver is less than daily doses of Ibuprofen and the liver will recover rapidly. I have both adrol and dbol in injectables. Point being, deca is far more damaging to your system than either dbol or adrol, at let's say 50mgs per day, no more than 6 weeks. No matter what you take, there will be some matter of give and take. I have taken tren up to a gram a week and didn't have horrible sides. A gram of tren a week is way too much, by the way.

    With the exception of cheque drops, I don't think there's anything I haven't tried. I even have some bolasteron. which was used by the East Germans back in the day. No matter what you want to do, testosterone will get you there. Anything else is supplemental. If you use test, control the E2 and DHT, you'll get where you want to get.
    How much is a gram in ml? I have some tren e. I think I'm going to just finish up this cycle with 500mgs of test e, and 3 ml of tri test a week I think thats 900 mgs of of the tri. That would bring my test e to 800 mgs a week, test prop to 300mgs a week and test cyp to 300. Should I up the tri or do you think that's a good number?
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    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitHammer View Post
    What exactly do you think deca does and I'll tell you what I would take instead. If you wander into a drug den and everyone is shooting heroin, that doesn't make it right; it just means that everyone is shooting heroin. Deca became popular in the late 80's/early 90's based on several misconceptions. Its popularity faded, then for some unexplainable reason, resurfaced as some kind of "must-have" drug in your cycle. I've posted numerous reason why deca is bad and I can't waste bandwidth re-posting the same thing over and over again. If you want deca, take it. You may not even notice the sides; then again, there's the case of the 19 year old...
    I have taken deca years ago with no problems. That said I am in no way a authority on this stuff but I'd like to know why deca is so bad. I know it can shut you down but so can test.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mako100 View Post
    I have taken deca years ago with no problems. That said I am in no way a authority on this stuff but I'd like to know why deca is so bad. I know it can shut you down but so can test.
    I hate to redirect you, but if you will, please go to the last couple of pages of Morry's log, and I posted a lengthy post about deca and why it's harmful. One problem is the E2 can not be controlled with any conventional AI or SERM. The reason is due to the way it's produced. Blocking the receptors is useless. Also the misconception that it's more potent than test is in error. Deca is actually less potent than testosterone. That, along with the prolactin issues and length of time in the body make it an undesirable drug. The claim that it will promote collagen synthesis is misleading because so will test, at TRT doses (200-300mg). You can go up to cycle doses and add proviron to promote collagen synthesis without the sides. You can also add equip, but I personally am not a fan of equip.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitHammer View Post
    I hate to redirect you, but if you will, please go to the last couple of pages of Morry's log, and I posted a lengthy post about deca and why it's harmful. One problem is the E2 can not be controlled with any conventional AI or SERM. The reason is due to the way it's produced. Blocking the receptors is useless. Also the misconception that it's more potent than test is in error. Deca is actually less potent than testosterone. That, along with the prolactin issues and length of time in the body make it an undesirable drug. The claim that it will promote collagen synthesis is misleading because so will test, at TRT doses (200-300mg). You can go up to cycle doses and add proviron to promote collagen synthesis without the sides. You can also add equip, but I personally am not a fan of equip.
    Well you def sound like you know this subject.....I'll look it over.......I just never had a problem with it....ever
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mako100 View Post
    Well you def sound like you know this subject.....I'll look it over.......I just never had a problem with it....ever
    A lot of young guys don't have problems with relatively conservative doses of deca. The sides are still there, but their ability to cope seems more robust. The other issue is that deca sides are usually attributed to something else so the user believes the deca is safe, but that other "gear" is bad or the test is too high, etc. But if you have a positive history of deca use and like it, then just be aware of the latent sides that may surface later. Deca d ick is one of them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitHammer View Post
    A lot of young guys don't have problems with relatively conservative doses of deca. The sides are still there, but their ability to cope seems more robust. The other issue is that deca sides are usually attributed to something else so the user believes the deca is safe, but that other "gear" is bad or the test is too high, etc. But if you have a positive history of deca use and like it, then just be aware of the latent sides that may surface later. Deca d ick is one of them.
    "Deca dick is one of them" after cycle like what years?
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    Come on! Don't say that! The deca stays in you for six months tops. I think...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mako100 View Post
    "Deca dick is one of them" after cycle like what years?
    this is how you waste your third post
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    Quote Originally Posted by heckler7 View Post
    this is how you waste your third post
    Sup yo.........take it easy sparky
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big boy D View Post
    How much is a gram in ml?
    It should be stated on the gear you have. what concentration did you get? did you fail elementary school math?
    if it's 250mg/ml of test-e, then in every ml of oil, you'll get 250mg of test-e, or about 175mg of test due to the ester.

    There's a TON of info on this on the web, multiple good forums that have tons of good info. a simple google search will yield numerous results.
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    Blergs's Avatar
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    i rec you take the deca out till next time
    LG Sciences Board Rep
    These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA, do not constitute medical advice, and are not official or authorized comments by LG Sciences, LLC.
  40. New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by gaijininjapan

    It should be stated on the gear you have. what concentration did you get? did you fail elementary school math?
    if it's 250mg/ml of test-e, then in every ml of oil, you'll get 250mg of test-e, or about 175mg of test due to the ester.

    There's a TON of info on this on the web, multiple good forums that have tons of good info. a simple google search will yield numerous results.
    Thanks for the help, but don't you think your being a bit of an ass? Just asking if you see it. Look bud if it was spelled out for me I would be able to tell. It's not.my gear is from a underground lab so the label is basic. But thanks anyways. Man you sound cool, wish I could hang with you because the sec you talked to me like that..... Well I think you know what you would be eating. Size 12
  

  
 

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