Test Ethanate for TRT(doctor ordered)

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    Test Ethanate for TRT(doctor ordered)


    Ok. I have't started the test E yet, but I am here for help. I hate the people who don't research just like the next guy. I have done some PH's in the past and I am not a newbie. That said, the real stuff IS new to me. Also I don't have alot of weeks, etc to research, as I will be starting this next week. Apparently my test is low (118) and the doctor will be starting me on Test Ethanate 1x/wk. I don't know the dosage, but I know he will be taking blood work after 1 month and adjust dose. They said they want to see at least 500. (me too, no wonder I am feeling the way I do).

    1- I want to make sure my test is low next time I get blood drawn after the month. 500 doesnt seem all that great to me, and I understand that this will be my dosage for awhile as a TRT program. I would prefer it to read low and be in the 800 range or better.

    2- I was transitioning to trying to do more cardio and was working on Stronglifts 5x5 and 3x5 program. Would those be reasonable while transitioning back to a higher test level? Should I increase volume to something else in particular?

    3- I know the doctor is following this mainly for test levels, but I want to get as much out of this as I can. Would you run some (expired 2 yrs) PH's along with this or just run the test e.

    To be clear, this is doctor ordered. I normally do research myself, but time is very short on this one and I am not current on today's PHs and never was "up" on the real gear. I appreciate the help. Not looking for hardcore gains - just glad to fianlly figure our why nothing seemed to work. I want to maximize the effectiveness of all of this positive and negative news.

    I know everyne wants to see these partially to approve if someone should be on AAS. In my case, doctor says so so that's that; but here it is for pure interest sake.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffh3c View Post
    Ok. I have't started the test E yet, but I am here for help. I hate the people who don't research just like the next guy. I have done some PH's in the past and I am not a newbie. That said, the real stuff IS new to me. Also I don't have alot of weeks, etc to research, as I will be starting this next week. Apparently my test is low (118) and the doctor will be starting me on Test Ethanate 1x/wk. I don't know the dosage, but I know he will be taking blood work after 1 month and adjust dose. They said they want to see at least 500. (me too, no wonder I am feeling the way I do).

    1- I want to make sure my test is low next time I get blood drawn after the month. 500 doesnt seem all that great to me, and I understand that this will be my dosage for awhile as a TRT program. I would prefer it to read low and be in the 800 range or better.

    2- I was transitioning to trying to do more cardio and was working on Stronglifts 5x5 and 3x5 program. Would those be reasonable while transitioning back to a higher test level? Should I increase volume to something else in particular?

    3- I know the doctor is following this mainly for test levels, but I want to get as much out of this as I can. Would you run some (expired 2 yrs) PH's along with this or just run the test e.

    To be clear, this is doctor ordered. I normally do research myself, but time is very short on this one and I am not current on today's PHs and never was "up" on the real gear. I appreciate the help. Not looking for hardcore gains - just glad to fianlly figure our why nothing seemed to work. I want to maximize the effectiveness of all of this positive and negative news.

    I know everyne wants to see these partially to approve if someone should be on AAS. In my case, doctor says so so that's that; but here it is for pure interest sake.

    Eating 1800-2300kcal
    Age 35
    BF% 32
    Weight 204
    Experience. 10-15 years, but never more than 2 years at a time. Most recently has been 1-3 w/o per week and 2 runs per week.
    Diet: could be better, but I am working on it.
    1st off this should be in trt sub forum.

    your main concern here should be getting you levels stablized first. you should not even be thinking of adding other stuff right now or fudging your #'s. theres ways around that later. its important to have a place, hormonally speaking, to return to(your new baseline) if and when you decide to start blasting or adding stuff. if you dont take the time now to get balanced out youll just be bouncing your hormones all over the place.

    so my advice to you. take the 3-6-9 months or whatever it is to get stable hormone levels(not just test). after that if you want to play many of us here can give you advice on what to use so that your dr doesnt bust you.

    also dont get so wrapped up in what your total test # is. you may feel great at 5-600 then again you may not but at least give it a try. will you feel any better at 800 as compared to 600? maybe maybe not. remember being on trt is not to make you feel like you are always on. it is to get your body hormonally balanced and within normal ranges so that we are like everyone else in that sense. you should feel better when you get going on trt but dont expect to feel invincible and god like the way you would pinning 600 or somg test/week. its also not a free pass to abuse gear just because you dont need to do a pct. being on test(trt) is a whole lot different than cycling test.
    Noob looking for alot of guidance
    I've got a hold of some omnadren 250(is sustanon better?) and I'm pretty much clueless about steroids. All i know about it is that it easily aromatizes and it holds alot of water
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    I would say this sounds like good feedback, and I will go with that for now. I appreciate the good response and detail. I will update the post after I sstart this next week.
    Thx.
    •   
       

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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffh3c View Post
    I would say this sounds like good feedback, and I will go with that for now. I appreciate the good response and detail. I will update the post after I sstart this next week.
    Thx.
    just put it in the trt sub forum. not many guys in this forum will pay it much attention
    Noob looking for alot of guidance
    I've got a hold of some omnadren 250(is sustanon better?) and I'm pretty much clueless about steroids. All i know about it is that it easily aromatizes and it holds alot of water
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    Trying to figure that out )moving it). Doesn;t seem to be a functionality for that/ Delete and respost?

    Moved to http://anabolicminds.com/forum/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=9 6

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    Ambulldog knows his stuff.... I also just started trt, had my first shot last week. He has answered all my questions and spent quite abit of time with me... and I thank him for that. Listen to what he recommends as he knows his stuff
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluerocket View Post
    Ambulldog knows his stuff.... I also just started trt, had my first shot last week. He has answered all my questions and spent quite abit of time with me... and I thank him for that. Listen to what he recommends as he knows his stuff
    I will, thanks for checking in!
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    Lab results.

    I did my own lab to doublecheck what is happening with my TRT. It seems that my test levels are where they should be already. Is this rather quick after 2 injections?? This is an afternoon lab and 5 days post injection. This was done fasting. My e2 also seems exceptionally high. I know this is up to me and my doc, but wouldnt I maybe feel better on a lower dose and some AI or would I be giving up too much T doing that (always easier to talk doc into lower vs higher dose of T in current political environment I think). Dose now is 200mg. So would I expect the 966 to continue to climb and be WAY to high by the end of the month when doc does "official" labs??

    Labs numbers below, sort of. The pdf they sent me is secured so I cannot cut and paste. All numbers were "normal". Test number typed in below.

    e2=91.8
    FSH=.2 range 1.5-12.4
    LH= <.2 range 1.7-8.6
    Test(serum) 966

    Metabolic pannel, all numbers pretty much smack dab in middle of range
    CBC with differential. All numbers in range.

    Need feedback on if I should cut my own dose here. I dont want to argue to get cut back, then just have to face an uphill battle to get more if I need it later. Really need some advice here. Should my test continue to increase (nuts are def shrinking) or level off here. Im great with this test level, but e2 is quite high. I dont want to drop to 100 with no AI just to get e2 "in range" then just have low test and high normal e2...

    P.s. this post was moved once, but I think it should be in male anti age vs over 35. How do I move this or ask about moving it?
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    You need to get that E2 in check with an AI. Your test is good, but if you let that e2 keep going like that, your gonna feel just as bad as when your test was in the 100's, or even worse.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MakaveliThaDon View Post
    You need to get that E2 in check with an AI. Your test is good, but if you let that e2 keep going like that, your gonna feel just as bad as when your test was in the 100's, or even worse.
    Yea, I'm feeling it; I knew something wasn;t right from the way I went downhill.
    Very foggy head yesterday(lab day) and my vision seemed blury, if that makes sense.

    *But do I sched an appt or jsut wait 2 more weeks until I am supposed to go anyway?
    *Also, like you said - test is good. Will it keep rising or is 2 weeks long enough to level off (normally)?
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    If your on test E, I would give it a full 4 weeks to see stable levels of what you are going to achieve off of that dose.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MakaveliThaDon View Post
    If your on test E, I would give it a full 4 weeks to see stable levels of what you are going to achieve off of that dose.
    So after 4 weeks T should be where it is going to be long(er) term on that dose is what I am understanding.

    Would this apply to e2 as well. I know it is high now, but would it peak in the same time frame as T? I know it is already an issue, but i'm sure a stable (though bad) level will make it easiest to dose any AI's.

    I owe you some reps... thanks for the advice!
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    What dosage do they have you on? I didnt see that. Sorry if I missed it
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    200mg test ethanate in the glutes 1x/week. No AI, no HcG at present.
    Labs

    e2=91.8
    FSH=.2 range 1.5-12.4
    LH= <.2 range 1.7-8.6
    test(serum) 966

    Labs are 2 weeks in. Taken 5 days after last inj.

    Odd that 200mg raised 116-->966 ng/dl after just 2 weeks...
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffh3c View Post
    200mg test ethanate in the glutes 1x/week. No AI, no HcG at present.
    Labs

    e2=91.8
    FSH=.2 range 1.5-12.4
    LH= <.2 range 1.7-8.6
    test(serum) 966

    Labs are 2 weeks in. Taken 5 days after last inj.

    Odd that 200mg raised 116-->966 ng/dl after just 2 weeks...
    no, thats not odd at all. taken day after injection it would be in the 1400+ range. 200mg is too high for long term true TRT, even 150 is stretching it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    no, thats not odd at all. taken day after injection it would be in the 1400+ range. 200mg is too high for long term true TRT, even 150 is stretching it.
    sure does feel good though
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    no, thats not odd at all. taken day after injection it would be in the 1400+ range. 200mg is too high for long term true TRT, even 150 is stretching it.
    Perhaps he is wanting to bring it up with a higher dose, due to low level, and keep it there with a lower one. Sometimes a few more minutes explaining things goes a long way!

    MakaveliThaDon: It DID feel good for a few days, now I feel on par with previously or worse, just a bit more oily skin and blurry thought and vision. That's the e2 spike. I am regaining some muscle in gym (NORMAL progress again) is the only remaining +.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffh3c
    Perhaps he is wanting to bring it up with a higher dose, due to low level, and keep it there with a lower one.
    Except it doesn't work that way. You'd reach target levels in a month anyway, with less estrogen. No regular endocrinologist or urologist would normally prescribe like that, or at 200/wk
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Except it doesn't work that way. You'd reach target levels in a month anyway, with less estrogen. No regular endocrinologist or urologist would normally prescribe like that, or at 200/wk
    hmmm... good to know. I am becoming a bit skeptical on his treatment on this. Still not going to monkey with my own dose and screw up stabilizing blood levels, but I think the people on this board know more than my doc does on this subject.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffh3c View Post
    hmmm... good to know. I am becoming a bit skeptical on his treatment on this. Still not going to monkey with my own dose and screw up stabilizing blood levels, but I think the people on this board know more than my doc does on this subject.
    generally speaking that IS usually true. Don't hesitate to do your own research like you are doing and print any relevant info/articles out and take them to your doc and show him. If he's open minded and willing to work with you, he will appreciate this and take a look at them.
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    And 200mg isn't necessarily bad for you, but it very much puts you over top of normal for an 18 year old. Your estrogen levels may stabilize or they may not. Is suggest lowering the dose before going to arimidex or aromasin as this treatment is for the rest of your life.
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    FDA standard is 200mg every two weeks.
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    I'm on 200mg a week of test cyp. I'm gonna cut my dose back to 100mg a week before my labs to see how it looks. From the way I feel 200 is good but maybe to good. Then I will just save the rest for when I blast.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Layddually View Post
    I'm on 200mg a week of test cyp. I'm gonna cut my dose back to 100mg a week before my labs to see how it looks. From the way I feel 200 is good but maybe to good. Then I will just save the rest for when I blast.
    So, 200 a week feels good?
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    Quote Originally Posted by BB12 View Post
    So, 200 a week feels good?
    Like I said 200 ew is prolly a little high but to me it feels like a sweet spot. If I was to go get blood work while at 200 ew my levels would prolly be high not normal. But not everyone has the same needs. You may need 75 mg ew or 300mg ew no one can tell you that's what blood work is for. My doc told me he just going by how I feel until next year.
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    My doctor changed my dose last time around. I'm doing 40mg every third day ( e3d ) very stable blood level and I'm at 700ng/dl. I always request a copy of my blood work, I like to check things for myself.
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    I've decided to call the doc tomorrow on the sides. Having very foggy thought and somewhat blurred vision. I cannot concentrate! I may actually have to call in to my job (danger factor for not being 100%)

    Is there an article (scholarly article) that a physician would take heed of on E2? Not going to print a sticky off here. I DEFINATELY respect those, but I know he will discount it if not from an "official" medical source. If he calls me in for labs (likely) they will probably be sky high as I inject tomorow. This may cause more trouble when he lowers my dose and I go lower than I was before TRT.... feeling in a bad spot here.

    I have formestane/Formex(IBE) at the house. I am sure those would alleviate E2 sides and probably let me work, but I dont want to screw up labs and screw up the long term stabilit.
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    Feeling like a dumb-ass now. Took my shot then just called doc office to advise of sides. He'll prob pull thew shots and I will bottom out on T and feel like **** on the OTHER spectrum. Awaiting a call back. Other possibility is he has be come in, but then my T will or course be high as I just took the shot at 9am!! Then instead of cutting me slightly (if needed) he chops it significantly and my T gets very low....crap again. Not seeing a positive out of the call I made.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeffh3c View Post
    Feeling like a dumb-ass now. Took my shot then just called doc office to advise of sides. He'll prob pull thew shots and I will bottom out on T and feel like **** on the OTHER spectrum. Awaiting a call back. Other possibility is he has be come in, but then my T will or course be high as I just took the shot at 9am!! Then instead of cutting me slightly (if needed) he chops it significantly and my T gets very low....crap again. Not seeing a positive out of the call I made.
    Yea you should have got an ai and tried to adjust it your self. I take about 8mg of aromasin eod. The problem is if your test is low and e2 is high to begin with when you start trt you raise t levels but guess what your e2 levels raise as well.
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    Without going into too much detail, doc thinks the low T, the memory and foggy head issues, and visual blurriness may be something else entirely. Going in to office today or tomorrow. Just saw this AM where Zocor has side effects on your thought processes in some instances, so I am really hoping these are sides from the Test E, or the Zocor, though they think it could be more of an issue than that. Will post when i know more....
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    For those wanting a scholarly article supporting linear relationship between e2 Test and memory. Found pleanty of articles on women and e2, strangly enough, women perform better on the WOMENS hormone. Seems not too many care about the study of men, but I did find this.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10523014

    Endogenous sex hormones and cognitive function in older men.
    Barrett-Connor E, Goodman-Gruen D, Patay B.
    Source
    Department of Family and Preventive Medicine, University of California, San Diego, La Jolla 92093-0607, USA.
    Abstract
    The objective of this study was to determine whether endogenous sex hormone levels predict cognitive function in older men. Our study design was an exploratory analysis in a population-based cohort in Rancho Bernardo, California. The study participants were 547 community-dwelling men 59-89 yr of age at baseline who were not using testosterone or estrogen therapy. Between 1984 and 1987, sera were collected for measurement of endogenous total and bioavailable testosterone and estradiol levels. Between 1988 and 1991, 12 standard neuropsychological instruments were administered, including two items from the Blessed Information-Memory-Concentration (BIMC) Test, three measures of retrieval from the Buschke-Fuld Selective Reminding Test, a category fluency test, immediate and delayed recall from the Visual Reproduction Test, the Mini-Mental State Examination with individual analysis of the Serial Sevens and the "World" Backwards components, and the Trail-Making Test Part B. In age- and education-adjusted analyses, men with higher levels of total and bioavailable estradiol had poorer scores on the BIMC Test and Mini-Mental State Examination. Men with higher levels of bioavailable testosterone had better scores on the BIMC Test and the Selective Reminding Test (long-term storage). Five associations were U-shaped: total testosterone and total and bioavailable estradiol with the BIMC Test; bioavailable testosterone with the "World" test; and total estradiol with the Trail-Making Test. All associations were relatively weak but independent of age, education, body mass index, alcohol use, cigarette smoking and depression. In these older men, low estradiol and high testosterone levels predicted better performance on several tests of cognitive function. Linear and nonlinear associations were also found, suggesting that an optimal level of sex hormones may exist for some cognitive functions.
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    is there any possibility that having your bodyfat at 32 percent is raising your e2?
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    Quote Originally Posted by laserbluess View Post
    is there any possibility that having your bodyfat at 32 percent is raising your e2?
    Quite likely in my opinion. Due to some other issues doc ran a bunch of tests and hopefully should have them back tomorow. I feel a LOT better today, and started feeling better after the last shot. Maybe my body just had a large spike in e2 during the initial increase up to normal T levels. Regular doc said no expensive scans needed right now until the normal blood tests come back. The "other" doc had me scared they there could be something far more serious...

    Will post what he gives me when I get it. He did say my normal sodium was our of range and high, but only by a few points. Said this wasnt a one time issue either. Probably unrelated...
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    Doc took blood work 2 days after an injection. Says my sides are related to HIGH test now WTF? (Sides were a bit of vision blur and mental fog) Found articles supporting these as sides, but he said that these aren't sides of T treatment. Labs came back 1110. I am finally feeling normal and now the dose gets cut? He's wanting me to take the 200 now every 2 weeks. So not only a drastic dose change, but frequency change to make sure I can enjoy the roller coaster. This is really ridiculous. Thing is, I love my doc and have been there over 10 years. Waiting on a phone call re just 1/2 the dose to every week vs 200 every other.

    -Not loving the roller coaster. I know more TRT isn't better, but neither is going too low.
    -I dont agree with the every 2 week regimen for any TRT dose from what I have researched.

    Edit: So will reducing frequency to every other week DROP my test level low again, or just let it stabilize?
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    My doc has me on test e at 40mg every 3 days. He claims it will keep my blood levels stable, 700 is where he wants me to be however I'm waiting on my blood work results at the next appt.
  36. Never enough
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    That should put you close, maybe a hair lower
    This space for rent

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    Well, as little as my doc seems to know, he is receptive to my input. I went to the every 2 week regimen and really started feeling down and drained come day 11-12. I advised him of this and he has returned me to the original dose with some flexability 200mg every 7-10 days. Last time they took test 2 days after inject at 1110. This time he not only changed my dose, but agreed to take new blood work at day 12. So long as it isn't high he will keep me on the new regimen. I am back to work with no sides too, so that is a ++

    I will post blood work when they get it to me.
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    Day 11 blood work 800 TT. Not sure why I felt so down, but he did agree to the original dose every 7-10 days.
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    After my prostrate problem I went down to 200mgs a week and feel like s hit. I feel lethargic, weak and "mortal." I feel great at 400 per week. I went to see a TRT doctor a few weeks out of the hospital and we decided to take blood at the end of this month (Sept 2011), allowing my blood levels to stabilize. He said to continue taking 200 a week ad let's see how the liver looks. As someone said, test levels mean nothing; it's your E2 and DHT that can kill you. My doctor believes in 100mgs per week, but is working with me to script 200mgs per week, depending on my liver, kidney's etc. Either way, as soon as I get my script, I'm back to 400mgs per week. I can't stand this feeling using 200mgs per week. I dread the thought of using Proscar, but I may have to if I want to stay on 400mgs per wk.
  40. Never enough
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    Quote Originally Posted by DetroitHammer View Post
    After my prostrate problem I went down to 200mgs a week and feel like s hit. I feel lethargic, weak and "mortal." I feel great at 400 per week. I went to see a TRT doctor a few weeks out of the hospital and we decided to take blood at the end of this month (Sept 2011), allowing my blood levels to stabilize. He said to continue taking 200 a week ad let's see how the liver looks. As someone said, test levels mean nothing; it's your E2 and DHT that can kill you. My doctor believes in 100mgs per week, but is working with me to script 200mgs per week, depending on my liver, kidney's etc. Either way, as soon as I get my script, I'm back to 400mgs per week. I can't stand this feeling using 200mgs per week. I dread the thought of using Proscar, but I may have to if I want to stay on 400mgs per wk.
    are your other levels in line at 200? that may be part of why it doesn't feel that great, that something else is off too but at 400 it overwhelms that problem.
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