Small dose of EQ with high test for joints and tendons
- 02-09-2011, 05:01 AM
Small dose of EQ with high test for joints and tendons
Sup, i'm thinking of running around 200mg EW of bold/EQ alongside 600-800 test cyp EW to help keep strong tendons while on a mass/strength mix routine. The main idea being to avoid tendon or cartilage injury during the cycle, since high doses of testosterone alone inhibit collagen synthesis.
At the same time I dont want to experience any of the sides of EQ like anxiety (which I am prone to) and increased appetite (I already have a huge appetite and am overweight somewhat).
I have experience with Test only cycles. Was just wondering if adding the bare minimum (200 mg) of EQ weekly while on 800mg of test cyp will help with the joints and tendons and maybe even strengthen them.
Thx in advance
- 02-09-2011, 03:02 PM
From what I've read and tried approximately 3G per kg body weight. I have tried 750 test with 250 eq. I personally think it's better to use a higher dose of eq like 500/500 or in your case 800/500 or 800/600 would be good. I just didn't notice so much at the lower dose which is probably because of the test. So IMO keep the two at closer doses.
- 02-09-2011, 03:04 PM
02-09-2011, 04:09 PM
I'm doing that right now.
200mg a week. I front loaded the first week with 400mg though.
Still starvin marvin...
02-09-2011, 08:39 PM
Deca is a way better option for retaining water which will help your joints much more than EQ.
Eq is closely related to test and will also inhibit collagen synthesis. Deca however, increases progesterone, retaining water therefore lubricating joints.
Just don't take too much of an AI while on cycle or you will just defeat the purpose. Get some Caber in case progesterone sides become too great.
02-10-2011, 01:56 AM
02-10-2011, 02:27 AM
02-10-2011, 08:47 PM
After further searching for an answer I keep coming across this:
(originally posted by AnimalMass)
While injecting test increases protein synthesis by roughly 50 times, depending on dose and time, most bodybuilders forget that it will reduce collagen synthesis by more than 50% -- more like 80%, giving you the collagen synthesis rate of a senior citizen. Since collagen makes up tendons, bros are very prone to injury if they continue to lift very heavy, unless they cycle off T and let their collagen synthesis get back to normal. It's like having the skeletal muscle of a gorilla with the tendons of a very old man.
Winstrol increases collagen synthesis. It will give you bigger tendons. However, your body compensates for this by making them more brittle, weaker, and more prone to injury. I can't tell you how many bros work out anaerobically and become injured while on winstrol. Guys who lift in the 1-5 rep range while on winstrol, to baseball players who sprint all out from a stationary position -- winstrol should be the LAST drug they choose. Most of them like winstrol because they don't get the weight gain from it but it is very detrimental to bros who train for any sport anaerobically. Tendons tear easily on it.
Also, the drugs I mention increase collagen synthesis while also increasing collagen cross-linking integrity, making for a much stronger tendon.
Winstrol, on the other hand, will dramatically increase collagen syn, but ironically it decreases collagen cross-linking integrity, thus making a much weaker tendon.
You can plan a cycle of AAS which will increase collagen synthesis and skeletal muscle growth at the same time. The key is the drug(s) you choose.
Deca, Equipoise, Anavar, and Primobolan will ALL increase skeletal muscle while at the same time dramatically increase collagen syn and bone mass and density, leaving you with a substantially reduced chance of becoming injured than if you choose to use AAS like sus, cyp, or enth.
While testosterone will increase bone mass and density, even at supra-physiological levels, the result is weaker tendons due to inhibition of collagen syn.
To plan a cycle where the goal is to increase skeletal muscle mass/strength while at the same time increase joint/tendon/ligament strength, enough to keep up with the dramatic increase in skeletal muscle, you must choose drugs like Eq, Deca, Anavar, or Primo as the base of your cycle. Testosterone and its esters can be added to your cycle to keep levels within a 'normal' physiological range (ie, 100-200 mg/wk) but must not go above this. Since drugs like eq, deca, anavar and primo will reduce endogenous, natural levels of test, these levels may be maintained with exogenous test in the 100-200 mg/wk range. Test at this dose will not inhibit collagen syn, but paradoxically, will help increase it. It is when exogenous testosterone is used > 200 mg/wk that collagen syn is inhibited.
Deca @ 3 mg/kg a week(about 270 mg/wk for a 200 lb male) will increase procollagen III levels by 270% by week 2. Procollagen III is a primary indicator used to determine the rate of collagen syn. As you can see, deca is a very good drug at giving you everything you want -- an increase in collagen syn, an increase in skeletal muscle, and increases in bone mass and density. The one thing it does not give you is wood.
Primobolan, @ 5 mg/kg, will increase collagen synthesis by roughly 180% -- less than deca and equipoise but still substantial.
Equipoise @ 3 mg/kg will increase procollagen III by approximately 340% -- slightly better than deca.
Oxandrolone has over a hundred studies documenting its effectiveness at treating patients needing rapid increases in collagen syn to enhance healing.
These drugs have longer half-lives than most other AAS, so this should be considered when timing your post cycle Clomid use. Here they are:
Deca: 15 days Equipoise: 14 days Primobolan: 10.5 days
Anavar has a half-life of only 8 hours so it should not pose a problem.
GH is probably the most remarkable drug at increasing collagen synthesis. It increases collagen syn in a dose dependant manner -- the more you use, the more you will increase collagen syn. It has also demonstrated this ability in short and long term studies. From what I've read, hGH at 6 iu/day increased the collagen deposition rate by around 250% in damaged collagen structures. This result indicates that the increased biomechanical strength of wounds to collagen structures treated with biosynthetic human growth hormone was produced by an increased deposition of collagen in the collagen structures.
Eq, primo, anavar, and deca are all good -- they increase several biomakers of collagen syn -- ie, type III, II, I, procollagen markers. GH just seems to do so most dramatically.
Use of any of these drugs @ supra-physiological levels with a maintenance dose of test will increase collagen syn while at the same time increase skeletal muscle mass. Skeletal muscle mass gains will not be as dramatic as with large testosterone doses but you have to weigh the risk/reward basis for yourself. Also, these drugs do not satisfy the libido like testosterone, but that is not the point of this thread. It is only to demonstrate that you can increase skeletal muscle and collagen syn at the same time with certain AAS -- the decision is up to you.
Looks like I was wrong and was going on my freinds advice.
Stupid bro science, sorry.
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