CJC/GHRP 6 + Var/win clean bulk?
- 11-14-2010, 10:47 AM
CJC/GHRP 6 + Var/win clean bulk?
i wanted to do ~25-30 week cycle of growth and throw in anavar and winstrol but i cant afford that much growth lol. so i go down to CJC and GHRP 6. how much do you think i should take to get the same leaning out effects of real growth when its ran at 2-4 ius/day? sorry if im confusing any of you. I just wanna run peptides and copy real HGH effects (or to some extended) without paying too much $. So how many mcgs do i pin and for how long?
- 11-14-2010, 11:08 AM
Night and day with these peptides and real GH. If I were you I'd just save up. Be careful on some prices that are too goo to be true, there have been companies selling hcg as hgh.
(no I will not give you a source so don't pm me asking)Nutraplanet Representative
PM me with any order questions and concerns
- 11-14-2010, 12:17 PM
I NEVER mentioned i wanted a source.
i can get 100 ius for 250$. I am aware that there is a lot of fakes. but thanks anyway
My first time i did blow, it was some reallly good stuff. now everything else thats suppose to be "good" i barely feel. With this logic, i kinda wanna go step by step, and start with CJC and GHRP and not just jump into the real thing.
Also, CJC seems more appealing to me. It has a longer half life, which is what i like. and i just wouldnt pin 3x day GHRP for 25+ weeks. Also i was gonna do clen/t3 on and off. Main goal: build LEAN muscle mass.
11-15-2010, 02:05 PM
I would personally recommend CJC -1295 without DAC (30 minute bioavailability) to CJC-1295 with DAC (7-10 day bioavailability). GH is released by the body in a pulsatile form. This means you have frequent spikes and troughs. The body is supposed to do this. With sustained GRF (CJC-1295 with DAC), the result is a slow GH bleed that produces less GH than the pulsatile model. This is a more feminized pattern of GH relsease, and not recommended for mass building/recomp purposes, not even for anti-aging.
Pinning TID (3x/day) may not be fun, but it's still your best choice.
The observation was made that the difference between peptides and GH is like night and day, and I agree (from a pharmacodynamics perspective). Once again, daily injections of GH produces more of the "continual bleed" than pulsatile release, but not as badly as CJC-1295 w/ DAC.
While I've never been lucky enough to try hgh (no source; and NO, I'm not asking for one), from the literature and forums it seems GH has a much stronger bulking effect, whereas peptides are more for body recomp. GH also carries the risks of organomegaly, acromegaly, and tumor hypertrophy (it is not tissue-specific). From what I've read, these perils are avoided with peptides (CJC, GHRP, Ipamorelin, etc.). Don't take my word for it though; search the literature.
Hope this helps.
11-15-2010, 08:44 PM
so pretty much ur saying this:
CJC DAC is used by women? and that it will cause more GH bleeding (i wont respond as well to GH) and your saying its pointless to take because it wont do much cuz it doesnt have pulses and its more of a straight line release (if that makes sence)
ive read a few logs where people ran CJC DAC and they had a leaning out result while bulking, which is exactly wat im looking for. ill have like 2 anavar pulses as well in there.
the way i think of CJC without DAC and with is test p/e. sure test p will give you fast gains in just a few weeks, but enathate will as well, just it takes longer to notice.
is that a correct way of thinking?
11-19-2010, 01:09 PM
2) It (CJC w/ DAC) will cause a continual GH bleed as opposed to quick pulses. The end result is less total GH produced per day/week/month compared with CJC-1295 w/o DAC (which I prefer to call mod GRF(1-29)). It's based on the action of somatostain on somatotropes (GH-producing cells). Once a somatotrope releases GH, it gets acted on by somatostatin, which causes the cell to stop releasing GH and start storing it. This is a good thing. Studies have shown that this break allows the cell to build up more GH to release in the next pulse than if the cell had been continually releasing GH instead of storing and pulsing it out.
3) I agree with those who said they got some fat loss while bulking using peptides. These compounds (especially when taken at the right times) have powerful lipolytic effects, and actually block fat storage for a short time. You have to have some carbs, though. GH receptors get "desensitized" (I'm using quotes because I'm vastly oversimplifying) over time and need insulin to "re-sensitize." I'm not going to go into too much detail; my recollection of my reading on that topic is somewhat fuzzy.
4) I like your analogy, but it's inaccurate. The pulsatile release vs. continual bleed does cause an overall difference in amount of GH released, whereas with test prop vs. test enth, it's a matter of the same amount of test being released over different periods of time.
Sorry it took me so long to respond. Feel free to send a PM if I didn't explain clearly.
11-23-2010, 10:09 PM
- 6'0" 228 lbs.
- Join Date
- Nov 2008
- Rep Power
11-24-2010, 11:00 AM
Sorry for taking so long; I don't check the forums too often.
1) It's my understanding that (and this is just from what I've read and half-a$$ remembered) peptides (CJC, GHRP, Ipamorelin, etc.) don't cause shutdown of endogenous gherlin production. The production will be reduced during the time the peptides are affecting you, but will return to normal when the peptides are out of the blood. Exogenous GH, however, will cause somatrope shutdown, as it takes the endogenous GH production out of the picture as opposed to speeding it up (like with peptides). I've even heard of people using peptides as a sort of "GH PCT," but I'm not sure how valid (or necessary) the practice is.
2) While I wouldn't recommend use of CJC-1295 w/ DAC, the return to normal levels should be fairly quick with prolonged use, within reason (say 3 months or so). I've heard of people going on GHRHs indefinitely, and as long as the dosage isn't excessive, don't seem to have ill side effects.
3) Gut growth - Ah, the bane of modern bodybuilding. You're right to want to avoid it; the sport's supposed to be bodybuilding, not bellybuilding. Once again, as long as you keep dosages in check, this should not be a major concern.
For bodybuilding purposes, it's recommended to get 50-100mcg GHRH and 100-200mcg GHRP, 3 times a day. Once upon waking, once immediately PWO, and once right before bed. People seeking lipolytic and anti-aging effects mainly use 50mcg GHRH and 100mcg GHRP right before bed. I've heard tesimony from people shedding pretty dramatic levels of fat in just weeks using 50/100 mcg twice daily. Once again, gut growth seems to be more prevalent with exogenous GH rather than peptides.
I said the dosage above was for bodybuilding purposes, but don't start using peptides thinking you'll hulk up overnight. These compounds are not AASs, and the effects are very different. They will not build mass at nearly as fast of a rate, and are more potent when used to avoid accumulating fat rather than to build mass.
4) Certain peptides will cause cortisol release. If you're worried aobut cortisol, stick with CJC-1295 (or CJC-1295 with DAC if needed) and Ipamorelin. The concerns about cortisol release come mainly from the GHRPs, of which Ipamorelin has the lowest release, followed by GHRP-2 (a good substitute at half the price). The net effect will be anabolic, however, as the GH and resulting IGF produced by the peptides are anabolic.
Spiking your own insulin levels with food occasionally will make the peptides more effective (just not for 2 hours before injection or 15 minutes after), but it's not required. I wouldn't recommend using exogenous insulin unless you really know what you're doing; it's too dangerous.
Feel free to send a PM if you need any more info.
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