Filtering Suspect UGL Gear

[CJ Lugnut]

I have 30 ml of Sustanon from a local UGL source. After my first pin (quad) I came down with an infection in the area most likely cellulitis. 3 days of antibiotics and the pain and swelling have subsided. At this point I can only speculate as to whether the gear is contaminated with bacteria, or if bacteria entered through the injection site post-shot.

I have researched a bit in regards to .2um whatman filters. Are these used mainly for filtering out particulates or can they be used on gear that is most likely contaminated with bacteria? The gear is dosed properly and many have made solid gains using this local UGL, but it seems that as luck should have it, these are tainted.

I will have extra antibiotics on hand should I proceed with using the whatman/bake method in an attempt to re-sterilize my gear (if it was even sterile in the first place). Am I playing Russian roulette with another possible infection, or is this method sufficient?

 

[timmmah]

Wow, that's scary. I dunno but I'm in to see who does.

 

[unc21]

If there is bacteria in it, you will have to add some benzyl alcohol, but the source would have already used BA when making it. You could add more, but theres no way to tell how much to add. And if the source already has used a high amount of BA, adding more is going to make it even more painful. Adding some BA and filtering may help, but its not a guarantee.

Not knowing whats exactly wrong with your gear, essentially you are taking the risk of having another infetion regardless of what you do.

 

[criticalbench]

I would not even think twice about refiltering my gear. Personally tho, if i got an infection from it, i'd chuck it and forgot about that source but like you said, its hard to determine who the culprit is.

 

[rhodesman]

Throwing it away is the safest bet. Talk to your source about it as well.

No need to bake your gear as you can't get it to a high enough temperature to make it sterile without scorching your gear. That's what the membrane filters are for.

If you're not going to throw it away and you are going to try and save it, here's what I recommend.

1. Use very sterile practices when doing this. Wipe everything down with Isopropyl alcohol. work area, stirring rods, glasswear, etc.

2. Get new pre-strerilized vials.

3. Filter through a .45 sterile millipore syringe filter.

4. Filter into new vials through a .22 or .20 millipore syringe filter.

5. If you want to add more BA only add a little, maybe 1% as it will hurt bad if you have too much.

Remember, the BA only helps keep the gear clean once its already clean. It does NOT clean the gear for you.

 

[CJ Lugnut]

Thanks for the input guys. I know the best idea is to toss this crap, but unfortunately giving re-sterilizing a shot with some extra antibiotics on hand is the most economical choice for me right now.

I have done the research regarding which filters to use (thanks for the step by step process rhodesman). Does anyone have a link or can explain exactly what I will need to filter 30 ml of gear? I am looking for how many filters/pins, etc. Also, is there a certain syringe/pin size that works best?

As for the source, I am going through a buddy who goes to the local guy directly. The most frustrating part of this whole deal is the fact he got burned too by an infection on his glute, yet he refuses to even tell the source. You would think as someone who gives him quite a bit of business he would be comfortable in relaying this. Regardless, from this point on its human grade only, to hell with these infections!

 

[Jasen]

Just my advice each time I use a new vial, cuz everyonr can make mistakes, I inj only like a tiny tiny amount and wait 24hours if it is infected the small amount should not cause much damage when I say small I mean it like 1/8 of 1cc

 

[Jasen]

Btw what did you taker penicilan?

 

[CJ Lugnut]

I took clindamycin for the infection.

Here is the update: I re-filtered the gear last saturday and added 1% BA. I filtered with a .45 first, then a .22. I also heated the bottle gear on the stove for 20 mins at medium heat as an additional measure. This turned the oil form a light yellow to a amber color. I did an injection on Saturday and woke up Monday am with the site sore. Not hot or red, but a bit swollen and sore when bending my leg or massaging the area. The pain is no where near that of when I had a full blown infection, but now going on day 4 of pain I am beginning to worry.

From my research some guys report that injections which include prop can be painful, but for how long? Could this be from the added BA? Again my first pin was Saturday night with the soreness and a bit of swelling beginning Monday am.

I do have an additional 7 days worth of anti's, which I have on hand incase my science project did not work as planned. Any insight would be helpful.

 

[EasyEJL]

honestly I wouldn't have filtered or added BA, just baked it at 200 degrees for a half hour. That would kill any bacteria. The pain from prop or excess BA could easily last 3 days, 4 isn't totally unlikely. Part of the pain is recrystalization, part of it is dehydration of the local cells due to the BA.

 

[CJ Lugnut]

honestly I wouldn't have filtered or added BA, just baked it at 200 degrees for a half hour. That would kill any bacteria. The pain from prop or excess BA could easily last 3 days, 4 isn't totally unlikely. Part of the pain is recrystalization, part of it is dehydration of the local cells due to the BA.

Would the recrystallization/dehydration cause any hardness around the injection site? That is what I am experiencing. With the infection half of my quad ballooned up, but with this about an 2 inch radius around the site.

I had my gf feel both my quads to see if she thought one was warmer than the other, this was last night and she said she noticed nothing. She did mention the muscle felt "tense" on the quad which I had pinned. I am just surprised as to how long this has lasted with no change for the better.

Any insight as to why the gear became darker when heating?

 

[EasyEJL]

it could cause some hardening sure. Sometimes the color does change when baking gear as well, but so long as you are keeping it below a certain temp, its ok. I can't recall what the temp is, but 200 is ok for everything

 

[CJ Lugnut]

it could cause some hardening sure. Sometimes the color does change when baking gear as well, but so long as you are keeping it below a certain temp, its ok. I can't recall what the temp is, but 200 is ok for everything

This could have been where I blew it. I put on the stove top (on a pan) for about 20 mins at medium heat. So I do not know the exact temperature I was "cooking" the gear at. Would the worst case scenario be that I rendered the hormone useless if it was too hot? Are there worse consequences that could come from that?

 

[rhodesman]

I took clindamycin for the infection.

Here is the update: I re-filtered the gear last saturday and added 1% BA. I filtered with a .45 first, then a .22. I also heated the bottle gear on the stove for 20 mins at medium heat as an additional measure. This turned the oil form a light yellow to a amber color. I did an injection on Saturday and woke up Monday am with the site sore. Not hot or red, but a bit swollen and sore when bending my leg or massaging the area. The pain is no where near that of when I had a full blown infection, but now going on day 4 of pain I am beginning to worry.

From my research some guys report that injections which include prop can be painful, but for how long? Could this be from the added BA? Again my first pin was Saturday night with the soreness and a bit of swelling beginning Monday am.

I do have an additional 7 days worth of anti's, which I have on hand incase my science project did not work as planned. Any insight would be helpful.

You have 3 things working against you.

1. Prop hurts(most people)
2. BA content can definitely cause pain/irritation
3. Quad shots suck! They kill me no matter what.

 

[EasyEJL]

This could have been where I blew it. I put on the stove top (on a pan) for about 20 mins at medium heat. So I do not know the exact temperature I was "cooking" the gear at. Would the worst case scenario be that I rendered the hormone useless if it was too hot? Are there worse consequences that could come from that?

hmmm much harder to say for sure, but probably not too likely to have done anything more than ruined the gear, causing it to break down into component molecules. not sure exactly what it breaks down into, but i'd say don't inject it, as you pretty well won't get desired effect anyhow.

 

[rhodesman]

honestly I wouldn't have filtered or added BA, just baked it at 200 degrees for a half hour. That would kill any bacteria. The pain from prop or excess BA could easily last 3 days, 4 isn't totally unlikely. Part of the pain is recrystalization, part of it is dehydration of the local cells due to the BA.

I'm curious as to where you learned this temperature would kill bacteria at any time length. As this is my field, I'm pretty sure the only way to sterilize things is in an autoclave(which holds a constant temp. of 121C).

 

[EasyEJL]

DRY HEAT STERILIZATION OF PARENTERAL OIL VEHICLES.
T Kupiec1 , R Ahmad2 , P Matthews3 , L V Allen, Jr.4

1Analytical Research Laboratories, Edmond, OK, 2University of Central Oklahoma, Edmond, OK, 3Analytical Research Laboratories, Edmond, OK, 4Midwest Institute of Research and Technology, Edmond, OK,





Purpose.

The purpose of this study was to evaluate the effect of temperature and time on the dry heat sterilization conditions of three different parenteral oil vehicles. Methods. Three different oils, cottonseed oil, peanut oil, and sesame seed oil were each spiked with Bacillus subtillus spores. The inoculated oils were exposed to dry heat at 4 different temperatures (150ºC, 160ºC, 170ºC, and 180ºC) for three time intervals (1, 1.5 and 2 hours). Following inoculation and dry heat sterilization, samples were placed in a sterile laminar flow hood and processed according to <71> Sterility Tests of the USP XXIII using thioglycolate broth and fluid D. The specimens were then placed into the incubator at 30ºC for 3, 5 and 7 days and observed for bacterial growth. The above variables were performed in triplicate. Positive and negative controls were run along with each variable and group for quality control. Results. Cottonseed oil, peanut oil, and sesame seed oil were found to be free of Bacillus subtillus following dry heat sterilization at all four temperatures for 1, 1.5 and 2 hours at 3, 5 and 7 days. The positive controls were positive for observed growth and the negative controls had no observed bacterial growth. Conclusions. Dry heat sterilization of parenteral oils at 150ºC for one hour was sufficient time and temperature. However the authors recommend dry heat sterilization at 160ºC for one hour after the oil has reached the desired temperature. These studies were partially funded by the Professional Compounding Centers of America,Inc

 

[EasyEJL]

So that shows granted at 150c for an hour, that it acheived sterilization. that was straight oil, innoculated with bacteria. Assumption is that with the BA already in the solution that a lower temperature and/or time will likely work.

 

[EasyEJL]

adding some more fun details

"According to the Wilderness Medical Society, water temperatures above 160° F (70° C) kill all pathogens within 30 minutes and above 185° F (85° C) within a few minutes. So in the time it takes for the water to reach the boiling point (212° F or 100° C) from 160° F (70° C), all pathogens will be killed, even at high altitude."

"What is not well known is that contaminated water can be pasteurized at temperatures well below boiling, as can milk, which is commonly pasteurized at 71°C (160°F)...".

 

[CJ Lugnut]

You have 3 things working against you.

1. Prop hurts(most people)
2. BA content can definitely cause pain/irritation
3. Quad shots suck! They kill me no matter what.

That is what I hear regarding Prop shots, down right painful! The actual shots for me have been smooth as butter. I did shot #2 in my right quad last night around 11 pm. 12 hours later I can feel a bit of pain right at the injection site, but nothing much as of yet.

I have 2 previous cycles under my belt. 12 months ago I ran Test E (human grade, I got lucky) with little to no pain during or after injections. My 2nd cycle, which was about 6 months ago, was a 12 week run to BD Cypionate (i think it was garbage) and anavar. I have never had so much pain after a shot!

 

[rhodesman]

EasyJL; Going by the lowest temp. you quoted...150C equates to 302F. That's over 100 degrees difference from the 200 you said earlier.

I would also like to note that this temp would literally "cook" the oil, but that's fine in the study you provided as they only wanted to show what temp would kill the bacteria. Its a common misconception that oil can be heated enough to kill bacteria without ruining the gear. Low temps are are used to help speed the process of making the hormone soluble. Filters are what generally remove bacteria, viruses, mycoplasms, etc...

 

[EasyEJL]

EasyJL; Going by the lowest temp. you quoted...150C equates to 302F. That's over 100 degrees difference from the 200 you said earlier.

I would also like to note that this temp would literally "cook" the oil, but that's fine in the study you provided as they only wanted to show what temp would kill the bacteria. Its a common misconception that oil can be heated enough to kill bacteria without ruining the gear. Low temps are are used to help speed the process of making the hormone soluble. Filters are what generally remove bacteria, viruses, mycoplasms, etc...

Please then explain how you can pasteurize water killing all pathogens at only 85C ? Or pasteurize milk at 71C? Particularly given that milk + water are certainly far better substrates for bacterial growth than oil with benzyl alcohol in it

 

[rhodesman]

That is what I hear regarding Prop shots, down right painful! The actual shots for me have been smooth as butter. I did shot #2 in my right quad last night around 11 pm. 12 hours later I can feel a bit of pain right at the injection site, but nothing much as of yet.

I have 2 previous cycles under my belt. 12 months ago I ran Test E (human grade, I got lucky) with little to no pain during or after injections. My 2nd cycle, which was about 6 months ago, was a 12 week run to BD Cypionate (i think it was garbage) and anavar. I have never had so much pain after a shot!

Enanthate and cypionate are very comfortable esters. Prop hurts. As to why your gear got darker, I would agree with EasyJL. It sounds like you may have cooked the oil. As far as ruining the prop I'm not so sure as its melting point is much higher than that of Enanthate and Cyp. No matter what, if you want to be safe, chunk the gear and find a new source. No reason to risk infection.

 

[rhodesman]

..).

 

[rhodesman]

Please then explain how you can pasteurize water killing all pathogens at only 85C ? Or pasteurize milk at 71C? Particularly given that milk + water are certainly far better substrates for bacterial growth than oil with benzyl alcohol in it

Sir, I'm not being condescending here. Just trying to help out. And yes, I can explain pasteurization very simply or in depth.

Pasteurization is a method used to kill SOME of the bacteria in milk, alcoholic beverages, etc... It does so by bringing the temperature to a certain point to where it kills only a percentage of the resident bacteria but not high enough to denature the proteins in the beverage. (Curdled milk would be hard to sell, lol). This is why milk has a sell by date. After that date, the bacteria count will rise to a point where the milk will smell spoiled. It wont be harmful to you yet, but who wants milk that smells bad?

 

[CJ Lugnut]

Enanthate and cypionate are very comfortable esters. Prop hurts. As to why your gear got darker, I would agree with EasyJL. It sounds like you may have cooked the oil. As far as ruining the prop I'm not so sure as its melting point is much higher than that of Enanthate and Cyp. No matter what, if you want to be safe, chunk the gear and find a new source. No reason to risk infection.

I am pretty sure I did cook the gear. Son of a bitch...I can deal with the fact the potency may no longer be there, just hoping I didn't cause something major as to why I am feeling the pain going on 4 days now. Looks like I will have to cut my losses and find something else at this point.

 

[rhodesman]

I am pretty sure I did cook the gear. Son of a bitch...I can deal with the fact the potency may no longer be there, just hoping I didn't cause something major as to why I am feeling the pain going on 4 days now. Looks like I will have to cut my losses and find something else at this point.

You will be going the best route IMO. There is no way to tell what caused the initial problem with your gear. Using antibiotics over and over to kill the infection is not a great idea either. Remember, anytime you kill non-resistant bacteria with antibiotics you leave behind the resistant bacteria, thus giving the resistant bacteria a place to thrive with no competition. Use antibiotics only when necessary, bro. (not when your gear gave you another infection).

 

[EasyEJL]

Ok, so I was bored at work and finally hunted down for test enanthate what I would call degradation points

Flash Point: 214.2 °C
Boiling Point: 503.9 °C at 760 mmHg

test prop

Flash Point: 196.3 °C
Boiling Point: 454.6 °C at 760 mmHg

so basically if you hit over 400 degrees farenheit, you roasted it for sure as the flash point would be where its capable of igniting. Hard to say where inbetween the melting point and there degradation begins to occur, and how long it takes to degrade significantly. Still i'd imagine you broke 400 degrees easily in the pan.

 

[EasyEJL]

Oh and also I was thinking what you might have now is a sterile abscess, we can hope its not.

 

[CJ Lugnut]

Oh and also I was thinking what you might have now is a sterile abscess, we can hope its not.

If that is the case, any suggestions?

 

[EasyEJL]

honestly I don't know a whole lot about them but if its not feeling better in another day or two, i'd say time to go to the doctor.

 

[rhodesman]

Ok, so I was bored at work and finally hunted down for test enanthate what I would call degradation points

Flash Point: 214.2 °C
Boiling Point: 503.9 °C at 760 mmHg

test prop

Flash Point: 196.3 °C
Boiling Point: 454.6 °C at 760 mmHg

so basically if you hit over 400 degrees farenheit, you roasted it for sure as the flash point would be where its capable of igniting. Hard to say where inbetween the melting point and there degradation begins to occur, and how long it takes to degrade significantly. Still i'd imagine you broke 400 degrees easily in the pan.

Not that I do it "personally", but I've seen gear solubilized in a pan. Although, the pan should have water in it and the temp should be just high enough to make the hormone soluble in the oil.

 

[EasyEJL]

Not that I do it "personally", but I've seen gear solubilized in a pan. Although, the pan should have water in it and the temp should be just high enough to make the hormone soluble in the oil.

I've "watched videos" of putting the powdered test prop directly into a mix thats meant to end up as 4% BA and 16% benzyl benzoate (with the remainder made up of ethyl oleate added later) and you can almost get it entirely in solution in that at a net end concentration of 200mg/ml and have it be relatively pain free. At least thats how it seemed in the video

 

[rhodesman]

I've "watched videos" of putting the powdered test prop directly into a mix thats meant to end up as 4% BA and 16% benzyl benzoate (with the remainder made up of ethyl oleate added later) and you can almost get it entirely in solution in that at a net end concentration of 200mg/ml and have it be relatively pain free. At least thats how it seemed in the video

Lol...nice video.

Melting point for Prop: 118-123C
Test E: 34-39C

Because of Ethyl Oleate's chemical properties it works wonders for helping keep things in solution. I've seen "videos" describing why BB is sometimes not needed when using EO. Very nice chemical indeed.

 

[EasyEJL]

Plus you can use a 25 or even 27 gauge with it, which is nice for reduced pain

 

[rhodesman]

Plus you can use a 25 or even 27 gauge with it, which is nice for reduced pain

Absolutely.

 

[timmmah]

If that is the case, any suggestions?

Urgent care, the sooner the better.

Oh, and don't tell them you took steroids it screws up insurance. Say something like, I was camping and my girlfriend stabbed me in the leg with her sewing needle when she was fixing my pants.

 

[CJ Lugnut]

Urgent care, the sooner the better.

Oh, and don't tell them you took steroids it screws up insurance. Say something like, I was camping and my girlfriend stabbed me in the leg with her sewing needle when she was fixing my pants.

In regards to abscess's, both sterile and spetic - would the abscess not form at the spot of injection? The pain and tenderness is a couple of inches below the actual injection site.

 

[CJ Lugnut]

More regarding abscess's from another forum:

"A sterile abscess is simply a collection of oil within muscle tissue, caused by injecting too much/too often in the same spot. The carrier oil doesn't have time to dissipate before the body responds by encapsulating the foreign material in a fibrous capsule.

Over time the sterile abscess should dissipate of its own accord, as long as you don't top it up with new injections.

The sterile abscess does not usually hurt (unless it compresses neurovascular structures) and is not a risk to health.

In contrast, the infected abscess (in skeletal muscle) is painful and if untreated, could result in a life threatening condition, if it releases its infectious material (and the toxic byproducts of infection) into the bloodstream. This is called septicemia.

The infected abscess is usually caused by a needle or gear that has become contaminated by a pathogen (i.e. a bacteria). Unfortunately, the very nature of an intramuscular injection means that the bacterium is delivered deep into the muscle, where it is hard to treat.

This is why the treatment may require surgical excision of the area, i.e cutting away the infected tissue and surrounding, non-infected tissue to ensure complete removal of the infectious agent"

This wasn't from a scientific study, but it does seem to make sense.

 

[rhodesman]

More regarding abscess's from another forum:

"A sterile abscess is simply a collection of oil within muscle tissue, caused by injecting too much/too often in the same spot. The carrier oil doesn't have time to dissipate before the body responds by encapsulating the foreign material in a fibrous capsule.

Over time the sterile abscess should dissipate of its own accord, as long as you don't top it up with new injections.

The sterile abscess does not usually hurt (unless it compresses neurovascular structures) and is not a risk to health.

In contrast, the infected abscess (in skeletal muscle) is painful and if untreated, could result in a life threatening condition, if it releases its infectious material (and the toxic byproducts of infection) into the bloodstream. This is called septicemia.

The infected abscess is usually caused by a needle or gear that has become contaminated by a pathogen (i.e. a bacteria). Unfortunately, the very nature of an intramuscular injection means that the bacterium is delivered deep into the muscle, where it is hard to treat.

This is why the treatment may require surgical excision of the area, i.e cutting away the infected tissue and surrounding, non-infected tissue to ensure complete removal of the infectious agent"

This wasn't from a scientific study, but it does seem to make sense.

Ha ha...its pretty accurate, CJ.

 

[rhodesman]

In regards to abscess's, both sterile and spetic - would the abscess not form at the spot of injection? The pain and tenderness is a couple of inches below the actual injection site.

Gravity, bud.

 

[CJ Lugnut]

Gravity, bud.

I am hoping it is just from the BA content that was added when I filtered.

 

[CJ Lugnut]

Lesson learned:

Test Prop + Added BA = Severe Pain!