test e for winter bulk, need some help

[james1]

Thinking about running a test E cycle this winter for a nice bulk. I am pretty prone to hair loss. Will the hair line issues with the test E be dependent on what my bodies conversion of test to dht is like? I would also like to kick start the cycle. would I be better of doing something like

test prop 1-4
test E 1-10

or should I kickstart with an oral. Bf% is like 7 or 8, am looking to gain like 17 to 20 lbs. was thinking trenadrol but feel that might be a b*tch to recover from, don't have access to legit dbol, any suggestions would be great. just dont want to torture my hair line. thanks fellas'

 

[MSE]

Use test prop throughout, many people will tell you that the sides from prop are way less than E, even hair loss. Order in some Nizoral 2% shampoo and start using minoxidil mixed with azelic acid, you can get it from www.wholesalehairproducts.com. But to be honest with you, if you are prone to it you might have to decide which you want more, size or hair...

 

[james1]

So if I was going to run the test e at 500mgs/week, and run the test prop through out the cycle, would I lower the prop dose come week 4?

 

[MSE]

So if I was going to run the test e at 500mgs/week, and run the test prop through out the cycle, would I lower the prop dose come week 4?

Yes, or just run test prop the whole time and dont use test e at all, unless you already bought it.

 

[gymfreak2]

more frequent injections with test prop.
just 2 with test e.

 

[EasyEJL]

dose the prop daily and you'll lower sides even further. go for 350 a week, it will feel pretty close to 500 of enan given the difference in ester weights, and dose at 50mg/day

 

[james1]

dose the prop daily and you'll lower sides even further. go for 350 a week, it will feel pretty close to 500 of enan given the difference in ester weights, and dose at 50mg/day

Yea that sounds great, just seems like daily injections might be tough for my first injection run. So would I run the prop for 10 weeks like I would the test E. This would be a bulking cycle, would the prop be as effective at putting on weight?

 

[EasyEJL]

it would be a pain, but lower sides. its not like taking finasteride/durasteride is without its own set of risks, and i'd rather have the hassle of more frequent injections and less side effects. As far as mass goes, keep this in mind

Chemical = Molecular Weight = Mg of Testosterone
Testosterone (no ester) = 288.4mg = 100mg
Propionate = 56.1mg = 83.72mg
Cypionate = 124.2mg = 69.90mg

so roughly 350mg of prop = 293mg of pure testosterone, which is equal to roughly 420mg of cypionate. so although the prop is slightly less than 500mg of E, its still plenty for first cycle. E+Cyp esters are pretty close in weight

 

[UnrealMachine]

?

There's nothing wrong with Test E and an oral kickstart

If you want to pin yourself everyday for 10 weeks and go through 70 syringes and 140 needles, that's up to you

I don't see how test prop can cause less hairloss than test enanthate. MSE can you explain your claim??

 

[callaway]

I concur. For a 1st run just do test-e, and kickstart with an oral or prop. Too many injections 4 a first timer.

 

[gymfreak2]

?

There's nothing wrong with Test E and an oral kickstart

If you want to pin yourself everyday for 10 weeks and go through 70 syringes and 140 needles, that's up to you

I don't see how test prop can cause less hairloss than test enanthate. MSE can you explain your claim??

what abt the androgenic side effects bro? do u think prop has less androgenic side effects compared to enanthate n cyp?

 

[UnrealMachine]

How could it have more side effects, it's the same thing. The ester length just determines how long it will take to release. Esters exist for the sole point of not having to inject test suspension twice a day everyday.

While many people say that prop gives them less bloat than enanthate, others disagree, but that's pretty inconclusive, and at any rate the sides shouldn't be so much less with Prop.

In fact the sides shouldn't be too much at all, some acne and your bp might increase a little... It's not too bad... The chance of lessening them significantly with a different ester isn't worth having to inject 3 times as often, not to mention that prop's more expensive too.

Prop is good for a kickstart, it's good to run up to 8 weeks, it's good to stack with other short esters like tren ace, winstrol, mast prop etc.

But if you are doing a 10+ week bulk cycle, enanthate will save you time and money.

 

[gymfreak2]

How could it have more side effects, it's the same thing. The ester length just determines how long it will take to release. Esters exist for the sole point of not having to inject test suspension twice a day everyday.

While many people say that prop gives them less bloat than enanthate, others disagree, but that's pretty inconclusive, and at any rate the sides shouldn't be so much less with Prop.

In fact the sides shouldn't be too much at all, some acne and your bp might increase a little... It's not too bad... The chance of lessening them significantly with a different ester isn't worth having to inject 3 times as often, not to mention that prop's more expensive too.

Prop is good for a kickstart, it's good to run up to 8 weeks, it's good to stack with other short esters like tren ace, winstrol, mast prop etc.

But if you are doing a 10+ week bulk cycle, enanthate will save you time and money.

i agree with whatever u said. i had exactly the same thing in mind.
btw.. ive started a thread regarding my upcomign cycle. needed some help. ill be glad if u can fancy it.
http://anabolicminds.com/forum/old-school-hormone/130756-cycle-dec-test.html
thanks.

 

[EasyEJL]

?

There's nothing wrong with Test E and an oral kickstart

If you want to pin yourself everyday for 10 weeks and go through 70 syringes and 140 needles, that's up to you

I don't see how test prop can cause less hairloss than test enanthate. MSE can you explain your claim??

Less fluctuation in hormone levels. Just as the example, with enan 2x a week, there is more fluctuation in levels from peak to trough than with prop 3.5x a week. Using a specific example of higher levels of testosterone converting into higher total blood levels of estrogen, which in turn causes lower levels of SHBG leaving more free testosterone to convert to DHT and cause hair loss. Its about the peaks far more than the average levels. you may see no hair loss at X ng/ml of DHT, but start to see loss at 1.3 times X. Even at 5 weeks in, enan sees more fluctuation over the week than prop does.

 

[UnrealMachine]

If i were that worried about fluctuation, i'd just shoot the enanthate MWF, still save time and money

But I wouldn't worry about the fluctuation, 500mg of enanthate shot twice a week has been the bread and butter cycle for decades. Have some adex on hand and that's all you need.... Like i've said the sides shouldn't be bad at all. The only sides I get are acne and being incredibly horny.

 

[mooch2321]

Less fluctuation in hormone levels. Just as the example, with enan 2x a week, there is more fluctuation in levels from peak to trough than with prop 3.5x a week. Using a specific example of higher levels of testosterone converting into higher total blood levels of estrogen, which in turn causes lower levels of SHBG leaving more free testosterone to convert to DHT and cause hair loss. Its about the peaks far more than the average levels. you may see no hair loss at X ng/ml of DHT, but start to see loss at 1.3 times X. Even at 5 weeks in, enan sees more fluctuation over the week than prop does.

if this is the case then wouldnt the best choice be a longer esther like enanthate or cyp pinned eod....you would see a very steady state and pratically no fluctuation....you could even take it as far as pinning everyday...

 

[james1]

Yea I'm going to try the test E out, for my first time pinning every other day is a ton of injects and makes me a little uncomfortable. I'll have adex on hand, and will run nolva/clomid pct. A lot of great info from everyone, good input, thank you very much.

 

[callaway]

Smart decision. Sides shouldn't be too bad with test solo anyways. If u want to be cautious, plenty of people report good gains running <500mg/wk. Look into it.

 

[MSE]

?

There's nothing wrong with Test E and an oral kickstart

If you want to pin yourself everyday for 10 weeks and go through 70 syringes and 140 needles, that's up to you

I don't see how test prop can cause less hairloss than test enanthate. MSE can you explain your claim??

No, because as I stated "some will tell you that sides including hair loss is less". I haven't done any research other than word of mouth, don't care enough to take the time to try to validate what I have heard.

 

[EasyEJL]

if this is the case then wouldnt the best choice be a longer esther like enanthate or cyp pinned eod....you would see a very steady state and pratically no fluctuation....you could even take it as far as pinning everyday...

basically the best choice (other than pain and suffering) for any ester is daily. There are a number of people who do dose that way particularly for TRT. On same total dose of cyp a week, dosed 1 or 2x a week estrogen peaks are high enough to need arimidex, dosed daily it never peaks that high.

 

[UnrealMachine]

That's interesting Easy i wouldn't have figured that the fluctuations would lead to increased estrogen but I think i can work my mind through that... I'm on prop right now maybe I'll try playing around and changing to pinning ed... I personally don't mind ed injects.

 

[james1]

How maintainable will the gains from a solo test cycle be, if diet and pct are planned properly?

 

[UnrealMachine]

Gains should be very maintainable because the duration is long enough for your body to be used to them... You will lose weight, should be mostly water weight

 

[lennoxchi]

I wonder what the old school juicers did who did not have internet for info?

trial and error from those who came before them.

 

[EasyEJL]

That's interesting Easy i wouldn't have figured that the fluctuations would lead to increased estrogen but I think i can work my mind through that... I'm on prop right now maybe I'll try playing around and changing to pinning ed... I personally don't mind ed injects.

its related to the body's negative feedback loops. Some of what i've been reading regarding IGF and insulin along with the hormones sometimes make me wonder how anyone manages to grow at all (as so many things exert negative influence on each other naturally in the body)

 

[Harland]

if you check out roidcalc.com and enter say 100mg of test prop EOD or 250mg or testE twice a week, both start to level out in wek 5, but the ups and downs are a little more eratic with the prop.

So i don't know why you are saying the eod will keep your levels in check.....

 

[james1]

got some left over x-tren, think a 3 week x-tren kickstart will do any good, or be favorable in any way?