deca/test/dbol questions

[snowbird]

Fairly positive i would like to run this cycle. Also looking for some advice on it. How i figured from research would be running
12 weeks of test at 500mg
12 weeks of deca at 250mg
Dbol run 25,25,50,50 for the first 4 weeks.
Does this sound like the right dosing?
Which serm would be recommend for this cycle?
What is the best way to run HCG and how necessary is it?
What supports should i use on this cycle?
What other extra's would be necessary or beneficial in PCT?
And lastly what should i expect to pay for everything?

Please do not flame if this is way off. Cycle is planned 6 months out and I am still very much learning. Thank you for your responses.

 

[nosnmiveins]

Fairly positive i would like to run this cycle. Also looking for some advice on it. How i figured from research would be running
12 weeks of test at 500mg
10 weeks of deca at 250mg
Dbol run 30.30.30.30 for the first 4 weeks.
Does this sound like the right dosing?
Which serm would be recommend for this cycle? clomid
What is the best way to run HCG and how necessary is it? very necessary with any 19-nor compounds (deca, NPP, tren-e, tren-a)
What supports should i use on this cycle?
What other extra's would be necessary or beneficial in PCT?
And lastly what should i expect to pay for everything? not allowed

Please do not flame if this is way off. Cycle is planned 6 months out and I am still very much learning. Thank you for your responses.

answers are in bold

 

[snowbird]

For HCG is it run just during pct? What i gathered is start at 250iu and run that for about a week and if nothing changes up the dose till the boys start to drop.

What would the reccommended clomid dosing be?

For the Deca is the 10 weeks started at the very beginning of the cycle or two weeks into it to finish when the test finishes.

Also is D-bol illegal?

Do you have any personal preferences for supports or pct supps?

 

[bb4life]

run hcg during cycle at either 500iu every 5th day or 250iu 2x a week. dbol is illegal in the usa just like test and deca. start deca when you start test that way you're giving the ester time to clear and still on the test before pct.

 

[snowbird]

run hcg during cycle at either 500iu every 5th day or 250iu 2x a week. dbol is illegal in the usa just like test and deca. start deca when you start test that way you're giving the ester time to clear and still on the test before pct.

When would I start using it? Directly at the start of the cycle or at the first sign of testicular atrophy?

 

[MasterFlexx]

When would I start using it? Directly at the start of the cycle or at the first sign of testicular atrophy?

I would run 250iu 2x per week for the duration up until pct

 

[smshannon001]

taper up an ai at the end and taper down as the colmid tapers down?

 

[irish rednose]

why the rush are you at a sticking point? if your diet is fine and training is good and still not getting any where then if its a first cycle try test 400mg each week for 12weeks! your get some good results nolva/clomid on hand before during and after!!!! maybe next cycle sus deca d-bol!!! all the best

 

[snowbird]

why the rush are you at a sticking point? if your diet is fine and training is good and still not getting any where then if its a first cycle try test 400mg each week for 12weeks! your get some good results nolva/clomid on hand before during and after!!!! maybe next cycle sus deca d-bol!!! all the best

There is no rush its planned a ways out. I am currently cutting and when i get back to bulking if im growing continuously the cycle will be pushed out until i feel i would like I want the boost. As far as what the cycle is i feel that you really only get one first cycle why not get as much out of it as you can? After that its diminishing returns.

run hcg during cycle at either 500iu every 5th day or 250iu 2x a week. dbol is illegal in the usa just like test and deca. start deca when you start test that way you're giving the ester time to clear and still on the test before pct.

Ill probably do the 250iu 2x a week thanks. Thats what i figured on the dbol just wasnt sure.

 

[holyintellect]

If I understand correctly, this will be your first cycle....as I indicated in the other post, this is WAY too much, especially for someone who is hypogonadal.....

holy

 

[gymfreak2]

hcg use?

is hcg supposed to be run throughout the cycle? or we use it for mar 4 weeks n then take a few weeks break n start hcg again? for instance its a 12-14 week test prop-deca cycle?
also.. which AI wud u guys suggest to be run during the cycle? arimidex, aromasin, letro? n at what dosage?

thanks.

 

[freqfly]

If this i your first cycle, just go with test 500mg ew for 10 weeks

 

[snowbird]

If this i your first cycle, just go with test 500mg ew for 10 weeks

Already been talked out of this for a first cycle. Looking at test prop 100mg every other day and possibly dbol to kick start it. Haven't decided on that piece yet. Deca is out of the picture for this cycle though.

 

[nosnmiveins]

Already been talked out of this for a first cycle. Looking at test prop 100mg every other day and possibly dbol to kick start it. Haven't decided on that piece yet. Deca is out of the picture for this cycle though.

u dont need a kickstart with prop, but dbol would be a nice addition

 

[snowbird]

u dont need a kickstart with prop, but dbol would be a nice addition

Yeah been doing my homework and thats what i gathered. Being as im already on TRT due to naturally low test, I haven't figured out yet if dbol should wait. I hear mixed things.

 

[snowbird]

Hey guys this might be a little over the top but what is your take on adding in clen for the last 4 weeks of a cycle like this? I wouldnt do this for my first cycle but was looking at it for a second one assuming all goes according to planned with the first one. So it would look something like this:
100mg test prop 8 weeks
30mg dbol first 4 weeks
clen tapered up 60, 80, 100, 120 for the last 4 weeks
Possibly a dry compound along with the clen?

Once again second cycle idea, not first. Repped for any good input.

 

[samadhismiles]

looks like way too fast a taper

if I wanted to shed weight I would add some peptides like IGF/CJC1295. Increasing IGF levels burns fat real quick.

 

[Smiley]

Hey guys this might be a little over the top but what is your take on adding in clen for the last 4 weeks of a cycle like this? I wouldnt do this for my first cycle but was looking at it for a second one assuming all goes according to planned with the first one. So it would look something like this:
100mg test prop 8 weeks
30mg dbol first 4 weeks
clen tapered up 60, 80, 100, 120 for the last 4 weeks
Possibly a dry compound along with the clen?

Once again second cycle idea, not first. Repped for any good input.

Snow if its your first run with clen i would start at about half that dose then work up. Also being on 4 weeks your receptors are going to clog quickly giving it less effect. Look up some things on how people have run clen well. Many do 2 weeks on and 2 off to avoid building up a tolerance.

 

[snowbird]

Snow if its your first run with clen i would start at about half that dose then work up. Also being on 4 weeks your receptors are going to clog quickly giving it less effect. Look up some things on how people have run clen well. Many do 2 weeks on and 2 off to avoid building up a tolerance.

Thank you. I came across a few threads to give me some better ideas of how to run clen after i asked the question. My big unknown still is if its doable to run clen/t3 at the last half of a dbol/test prop cycle. And still looking into if i should run some sort of dry compound at the same time along with test/clen/t3.

 

[mj34]

If this i your first cycle, just go with test 500mg ew for 10 weeks

10-12 weeks of Test@500 is what most do and is a normal protocol. I dont see a problem running dbol@30mgs or so for the first few weeks. The thing is, when you add in more compounds and have side effects your lack of experience will not enable you to know which one is causing the problem. There is plenty of time to do cycles, keep it simple and run either test or test/dbol. I would run test/winny or var but whatever. The gains are much more keepable and with dbol you better keep some adex on hand because that is the only compound (dbol) that causes me to bloat and the feeling is so freaking unpleasant, trust me on this.

 

[mj34]

Fairly positive i would like to run this cycle. Also looking for some advice on it. How i figured from research would be running
12 weeks of test at 500mg
12 weeks of deca at 250mg
Dbol run 25,25,50,50 for the first 4 weeks.
Does this sound like the right dosing?
Which serm would be recommend for this cycle?
What is the best way to run HCG and how necessary is it?
What supports should i use on this cycle?
What other extra's would be necessary or beneficial in PCT?
And lastly what should i expect to pay for everything?

Please do not flame if this is way off. Cycle is planned 6 months out and I am still very much learning. Thank you for your responses.

For your nest cycle not this one, as I would go with the test/dbol, bump the Deca up to 400mgs EW and run your test 2 weeks longer than the deca; so test500-14 weeks, deca400-12 weeks.

 

[EasyEJL]

Thank you. I came across a few threads to give me some better ideas of how to run clen after i asked the question. My big unknown still is if its doable to run clen/t3 at the last half of a dbol/test prop cycle. And still looking into if i should run some sort of dry compound at the same time along with test/clen/t3.

The bigger question that nobody has asked is "what are you trying to accomplish"... at 5'10" 175, i'm guessing bulking, but then throwing in the clen would be somewhat counterproductive for those last 4 weeks.

 

[isoc]

There is plenty of time to do cycles, keep it simple and run either test or test/dbol. I would run test/winny or var but whatever. The gains are much more keepable and with dbol you better keep some adex on hand because that is the only compound (dbol) that causes me to bloat and the feeling is so freaking unpleasant, trust me on this.[/QUOTE]

Agreed, replace dbol with winny, test/winny is great combo, great strength, low on bloating, very affordable, still will gain good size, low sides, cant go wrong, probably one of my favorite combo's ever.

 

[UKStrength]

If this i your first cycle, just go with test 500mg ew for 10 weeks

Best advice ^^^ Just do a simple Test E cycle and see how you react to it. With an excellent diet you'll gain a lot of mass from it alone.

 

[snowbird]

10-12 weeks of Test@500 is what most do and is a normal protocol. I dont see a problem running dbol@30mgs or so for the first few weeks. The thing is, when you add in more compounds and have side effects your lack of experience will not enable you to know which one is causing the problem. There is plenty of time to do cycles, keep it simple and run either test or test/dbol. I would run test/winny or var but whatever. The gains are much more keepable and with dbol you better keep some adex on hand because that is the only compound (dbol) that causes me to bloat and the feeling is so freaking unpleasant, trust me on this.

Already planning to have adex on hand. I believe you helped me on that in another thread i made. Is winny just more keepable because of the water weight gained with dbol?

The bigger question that nobody has asked is "what are you trying to accomplish"... at 5'10" 175, i'm guessing bulking, but then throwing in the clen would be somewhat counterproductive for those last 4 weeks.

As i said above the clen idea is for a future cycle. Not the one im planning for fall. I am currently cutting just a few more pounds off then plan to bulk for the next year. Im assuming ill at least have a little fat gain from doing this. So my idea for the second cycle if the first goes according to planned, is to bump up the doses and duration a little and possibly shred off some fat toward the end which is where the clen would come in. Im not quite sure how clen works(still looking) so this is where the questions are coming from. A lot may change by that point in time but it never hurts to learn something new even if i dont use it.

Agreed, replace dbol with winny, test/winny is great combo, great strength, low on bloating, very affordable, still will gain good size, low sides, cant go wrong, probably one of my favorite combo's ever.

I havent really looked at winny. I was under the impression that dbol was more of a bulking compound. This thread kind of went of track so im not sure if you were referring to my first cycle plan or the second one (with clen).

Best advice ^^^ Just do a simple Test E cycle and see how you react to it. With an excellent diet you'll gain a lot of mass from it alone.

I am still debating that idea. Some are saying run test E while others told me Test prop. Why would i not run the prop? I am not against pinning more often. Needles dont bother me at all.



There seems to be two different topics being advised now. So to make it more clear:
First Cycle: Planned for this fall (pure bulking)
Test prop 100mg 8 weeks
Dbol 30mg first 4 weeks

Second Cycle: Planned for spring (lean mass and cutting)
Test prop 125mg for 10 weeks
Dbol 40mg first 4 weeks
Clen with proper pulsing for the last 6 weeks of the cycle (still looking at dosing protocol)

Please just refer to First or Second Cycle when commenting/advising. Thanks

 

[isoc]

Reply to first cycle: unsure of the 100mgs, if that is daily that is too much, if it is weekly then it is too low, would go with 100 EOD, Dbol dosage looks ok. The reason for the suggestion of the winny replacement is that it has less sides than dbol, less risky. Dont get too caught up in the bulker/cutter deal, winny will put muscle on you and strength, maybe not as much straight size as dbol, but the gains will be eaiser to maintain, you will look better and feel better.

In reference to second cycle, dont mess with clen right now, I am assuming you are not dieting for a show, and/or severely overweight. You are already going to be putting two different prescription drugs into your body that have their own list of sides, etc., you dont need a third. If you are going to be using clen to lean/harden after dbol, just use winny, will do the job for you.

Also, whichever you choose, watch your diet, yes you should increase cals and protein, but do it gradually, watch the mirror. Dont fall into the trap of I'm on cycle I better eat 4500 cals per day. If you want to just get fat, skip the anabolics and just eat a bunch of calories. If you want to gain muscle and look good, eat clean, and bump up gradually, and watch how you look, dont confuse size with fat. Just because your arms are up an inch doesnt mean that is good news if they look soft, shapeless, and your stomach is up 3 inches.

Dont fall into the hype of using tons of different products on cycle, not needed, especially your first ones and especially if you are not competing. If you are just wanting to improve your physique, add strength, basically for cosmetics, keep it simple. Honestly, if the above is your goal, test+winny cycles is all you would ever need as far as anabolics go (still pct, plus plenty of time off), although it is fun to try other things, the above would always yield good results and at a good price.

Best of luck, grow, stay safe, and keep this stuff in perspective. I am not the most experienced/knowledgeable, I am only making suggestions based off of past experience and mistakes.

 

[samadhismiles]

For your nest cycle not this one, as I would go with the test/dbol, bump the Deca up to 400mgs EW and run your test 2 weeks longer than the deca; so test500-14 weeks, deca400-12 weeks.

damn...shutdown city!

if you do this cycle I'd say HCG is a MUST

 

[snowbird]

Reply to first cycle: unsure of the 100mgs, if that is daily that is too much, if it is weekly then it is too low, would go with 100 EOD, Dbol dosage looks ok. The reason for the suggestion of the winny replacement is that it has less sides than dbol, less risky. Dont get too caught up in the bulker/cutter deal, winny will put muscle on you and strength, maybe not as much straight size as dbol, but the gains will be eaiser to maintain, you will look better and feel better.

In reference to second cycle, dont mess with clen right now, I am assuming you are not dieting for a show, and/or severely overweight. You are already going to be putting two different prescription drugs into your body that have their own list of sides, etc., you dont need a third. If you are going to be using clen to lean/harden after dbol, just use winny, will do the job for you.

Also, whichever you choose, watch your diet, yes you should increase cals and protein, but do it gradually, watch the mirror. Dont fall into the trap of I'm on cycle I better eat 4500 cals per day. If you want to just get fat, skip the anabolics and just eat a bunch of calories. If you want to gain muscle and look good, eat clean, and bump up gradually, and watch how you look, dont confuse size with fat. Just because your arms are up an inch doesnt mean that is good news if they look soft, shapeless, and your stomach is up 3 inches.

Dont fall into the hype of using tons of different products on cycle, not needed, especially your first ones and especially if you are not competing. If you are just wanting to improve your physique, add strength, basically for cosmetics, keep it simple. Honestly, if the above is your goal, test+winny cycles is all you would ever need as far as anabolics go (still pct, plus plenty of time off), although it is fun to try other things, the above would always yield good results and at a good price.

Best of luck, grow, stay safe, and keep this stuff in perspective. I am not the most experienced/knowledgeable, I am only making suggestions based off of past experience and mistakes.

The idea was 100mg of test prop every other day. Hmm ill definitely take a look at winny then. So your take is winny will be a lot dryer gains? Oh I already learned the get fat mistake lol. Got up to 202 in January and realized **** i got way to fat. Because i had to cut so much i lost damn near all size gain I had from that bulk. Definitely learned my lesson this time will definitely be lean mass. Learning from my mistakes.

I might go for an ECA stack or something instead when i get to spring time. After the cycle or in place of the clen during the cylce. I do have ambitions to compete but not for another couple of years. I understand there is no need to be that lean if im not competing. But I my body stores and holds fat very badly. Ive been successfully cutting for about 4 months now and still am above 12%. My metabolism slows down fairly quickly. So i wanted to get a little help next time and see if i can get sub 10%. I dont plan to become stage ready from it just want to see the midsection come out strong.

I appreciate your input.

 

[isoc]

No problem man, if you hold fat fairly easily then I would highly suggest winny, definitely dryer gains. Go ahead and stay on cutting diet even on cycle, maybe up your protein a little, but stick to your plan, just because you are on doesnt mean you have to change diet drastically if you are already eating clean. Sounds like you want to use this cycle to harden up, this will get it done, assuming you keep total calories, carbs and fats moderate and do cardio.

It would be a lot of pinning but I would recommend 8 weeks of winny, dont do 8 weeks of winny orals, although you could split and do 4 oral and 4 inject. With orals 50 mgs per day would do well (350 total mgs per week), and inj 50 mgs Mon-Fri (250 mgs) should work (these two protocals should yield about the same results), is kind of a lower dose but at this stage you should be ok, honestly probably look much different after two months, but you may only gain 5-6 pounds. Dont get hung up on scale, sounds like you just want to look better. I had one time where I actually lost 2-3 pounds since the last time a guy had seen me and he said I was getting bigger. Quality over quantity. Also, less you use, easier pct is, less you lose.

To give you a little reference, I was in the middle of my second straight year on (not smart or recommended), and this was not the first time I had used, had been training for about 15 years, was about 210-215 at 5'9" and at that time sub 10% (not bragging, just want to give you picture, definitely others were bigger and better condition, but not bad) and I made some of the best gains off of 750 mgs test enanthate and 500 mgs of winny orals per week, and by gains I mean getting harder, small weight gain and very good strength. Understand small weight gain (3 or 4 pounds in about 6-8 weeks)I was dieting to look good, not to gain a bunch of weight and I had been on for literally years at that time, it takes a lot to make gains in size then (or it did for me). Yes those are a little higher dosages than I am recommending here, but also I was a little more experienced all around.

 

[snowbird]

No problem man, if you hold fat fairly easily then I would highly suggest winny, definitely dryer gains. Go ahead and stay on cutting diet even on cycle, maybe up your protein a little, but stick to your plan, just because you are on doesnt mean you have to change diet drastically if you are already eating clean. Sounds like you want to use this cycle to harden up, this will get it done, assuming you keep total calories, carbs and fats moderate and do cardio.

It would be a lot of pinning but I would recommend 8 weeks of winny, dont do 8 weeks of winny orals, although you could split and do 4 oral and 4 inject. With orals 50 mgs per day would do well (350 total mgs per week), and inj 50 mgs Mon-Fri (250 mgs) should work (these two protocals should yield about the same results), is kind of a lower dose but at this stage you should be ok, honestly probably look much different after two months, but you may only gain 5-6 pounds. Dont get hung up on scale, sounds like you just want to look better. I had one time where I actually lost 2-3 pounds since the last time a guy had seen me and he said I was getting bigger. Quality over quantity. Also, less you use, easier pct is, less you lose.

To give you a little reference, I was in the middle of my second straight year on (not smart or recommended), and this was not the first time I had used, had been training for about 15 years, was about 210-215 at 5'9" and at that time sub 10% (not bragging, just want to give you picture, definitely others were bigger and better condition, but not bad) and I made some of the best gains off of 750 mgs test enanthate and 500 mgs of winny orals per week, and by gains I mean getting harder, small weight gain and very good strength. Understand small weight gain (3 or 4 pounds in about 6-8 weeks)I was dieting to look good, not to gain a bunch of weight and I had been on for literally years at that time, it takes a lot to make gains in size then (or it did for me). Yes those are a little higher dosages than I am recommending here, but also I was a little more experienced all around.

I will be converting back to lean mass in a few weeks just for the fact my metabolism is shot and needs to start burning again. So I will be lean massing for the cycle. The first cylce which is planned for fall, i want to but on some good size. Dont really care if there is a little fat gain as long as its managable. The second one, planned for spring, is where id like to harden up a bit.

Well i still definitely have to check into what i substances i can get. Id much rather pin if i have the option. PCT will be interesting for me. Im not sure if i mentioned earlier in this thread or if it was in a different one but i am on TRT due to low testosterone naturally (yes crap genetics). So i definitely dont need as high of doses as some do.

My take on anabolics was to do 2 cycles a year. One in fall/winter to bump up in size as much as i can (lean size of course). And one in spring/summer to harden up and make a leaner quality gain. Hopefully getting a much more shredded look. It seems like a good idea in my mind. Hopefully ill feel ready for a competition after a few years of this.

 

[UKStrength]

I am still debating that idea. Some are saying run test E while others told me Test prop. Why would i not run the prop? I am not against pinning more often. Needles dont bother me at all.

Perhaps mate, I'd say give yourself the benefit of the doubt and pin less frequently with a long ester, it is your first time after all

 

[isoc]

if you are on hrt, then just blast and cruise, no pct needed, just go back to hrt dose. If you have some type of problem/estrogen related issues then maybe look into something, but otherwise no pct problems for you