- 03-05-2009, 12:01 PM
Someone who has been banned from here was asking me about dosing, and why they should or shouldnt use a kickstart, etc. So I started dicking around with Roid Calculator - half lifes steroids ester half-life looking at halflives and overall buildup, etc.
What was interesting was that the common "you won't see much from test cyp or enan till week 4-5" makes sense as it doesnt hit maximum blood concentrations till then using a standard 500mg/week as 250mg day 1/ day4. But in using that calculator and playing with it, if you dose as
wk 1 600mg day 1/200mg day 3/ 200mg day 5
wk 2-11 250mg day1/250mg day 4 (since you used the extra 500mg in week 1, its a week shorter for same total amt of test)
you are at peak concentrations week 2, and your max level is less than 5% higher than what you hit at max anyhow. (shows 82mg for the day on the middle of week 2, in normal 250 2x a week peak is 80mg)
Does this make sense? Or is there some other reason to not do it this way and either front load with prop or use dbol or some other oral?Animis Rep
- 03-05-2009, 12:59 PM
Interesting, Easy. I'm curious as to what people have to say...
I ended up jump-starting my Test E. cycle with some Prop. and I am loving it...thanks jjohn!
03-05-2009, 01:32 PM
Does that calculator use only elimination half-lives, Easy? I cannot recall. There are other considerations like hormone protein-binding and ester cleaving that can alter total bio., levels of these hormones; half-life is very much an important consdieration, though not the only one!
03-05-2009, 01:48 PM
03-05-2009, 05:17 PM
03-05-2009, 05:20 PM
Yeah, for sure. It was interesting though, playing with it. I'll have to look around some more to see if there are more complete ones
03-05-2009, 06:45 PM
03-05-2009, 07:10 PM
03-05-2009, 07:21 PM
03-05-2009, 07:21 PM
Cosign on the calculator being worthless.
Front loading is worthless considering that it just messes with your hormones more and doesn't really have a good effect on you at all. Kickers are more for getting gains started while the Test esters begin to work.
03-05-2009, 07:29 PM
03-05-2009, 08:02 PM
03-05-2009, 08:04 PM
From what i've read on frontloading, YMMV. Some people like it, others say it doesn't work. It should work in theory and so it's probably worth a try if you're interested.
03-05-2009, 08:08 PM
03-05-2009, 08:12 PM
03-05-2009, 08:14 PM
03-05-2009, 08:20 PM
03-05-2009, 08:23 PM
03-05-2009, 08:28 PM
03-05-2009, 08:34 PM
03-05-2009, 08:37 PM
That's like arguing for site injection to increase site enhancement. If you can produce some study or something I would like to see it involved IM injection and the site effecting the release time.
03-05-2009, 08:41 PM
1: J Pharmacol Exp Ther. 1997 Apr;281(1):93-102. Links
Pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics of nandrolone esters in oil vehicle: effects of ester, injection site and injection volume.Minto CF, Howe C, Wishart S, Conway AJ, Handelsman DJ.
Department of Anaesthesia and Pain Management, Royal North Shore Hospital, University of Sydney, Australia.
We studied healthy men who underwent blood sampling for plasma nandrolone, testosterone and inhibin measurements before and for 32 days after a single i.m. injection of 100 mg of nandrolone ester in arachis oil. Twenty-three men were randomized into groups receiving nandrolone phenylpropionate (group 1, n = 7) or nandrolone decanoate (group 2, n = 6) injected into the gluteal muscle in 4 ml of arachis oil vehicle or nandrolone decanoate in 1 ml of arachis oil vehicle injected into either the gluteal (group 3, n = 5) or deltoid (group 4, n = 5) muscles. Plasma nandrolone, testosterone and inhibin concentrations were analyzed by a mixed-effects indirect response model. Plasma nandrolone concentrations were influenced (P < .001) by different esters and injection sites, with higher and earlier peaks with the phenylpropionate ester, compared with the decanoate ester. After nandrolone decanoate injection, the highest bioavailability and peak nandrolone levels were observed with the 1-ml gluteal injection. Plasma testosterone concentrations were also influenced (P < .001) by the ester and injection site, with the most rapid, but briefest, suppression being due to the phenylpropionate ester, whereas the most sustained suppression was achieved with the 1-ml gluteal injection. Plasma inhibin concentrations were also significantly influenced by injection volume and site, with the lowest nadir occurring after the nandrolone decanoate 1-ml gluteal injection. Thus, the bioavailability and physiological effects of a nandrolone ester in an oil vehicle are greatest when the ester is injected in a small (1 ml vs. 4 ml) volume and into the gluteal vs. deltoid muscle. We conclude that the side-chain ester and the injection site and volume influence the pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics of nandrolone esters in an oil vehicle in men.
PMID: 9103484 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
03-05-2009, 09:46 PM
03-05-2009, 09:56 PM
Not buying the book... no offense, just don't buy books really. Besides Anabolics2007 of course. The BIBLE of anabolics, some of the cycles and **** in there is a lil ****ed, but besides that it's gold.
In that study I'll concede it had an effect from what they observed.
03-05-2009, 10:20 PM
03-05-2009, 10:23 PM
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