CKD, ketosis and muscle gain questions
- 07-24-2008, 04:59 AM
CKD, ketosis and muscle gain questions
hey there ^__^
just a quick enquiry regarding gaining muscle while in ketosis. I've been reading so many mixed things lately on various websites and even on these forums.
I'm currenly on day 4 of my ketosis, and am considering doing a carb spike this weekend. I want to know though, is doing a carb spike so significant in terms of aiding muscle growth as opposed to not doing a carb spike? Have people experimented with that? Ie, perhaps there is someone who went two weeks without a carb spike, and during that time, did you notice less increase in muscle growth as opposed to those times you did a carb spike weekly?
Also, I'm learning about glycogen and its role in weight training. Now being in ketosis your glycogen levels are slightly less than a diet with carbs. From a website, I read that normal levels will be 80-100mmol/kg and in ketosis averages around 70mmol/kg. Having said this, is the disadvantage in weight training that you just can't lift as much or tire quicker than you would on carbs? Also, after a workout, having just protein and fat, is that worse than having carbs and protein?
Also, if i were to do an intense workout, and have protein and fat at the end, ultimately will i gain at least a fraction or muscle? By that , I mean, is there no doubt i will lose muscle mass because my carbs are low? My calories are certainly above average so I don't expect expect to lose weight due to being in a cutting type deficent. I am wondering, is it better for weight loss and muscle retention to just keep workouts to a minimum and rely on diet mostly. if i endeavour to do workouts, will I lose musclemass?
sorry for all questions, I'm just really confused to this. I was gonna do a workout today, but was paranoid my glycogen is stuffed or something and my muscles would essentailly eat themselves...
- 07-24-2008, 10:22 AM
- 6'4" 210 lbs.
- Join Date
- Feb 2006
- Rep Power
- Lv. Percent
I recently did a CKD (ran it about a month and 3 weeks or so). I will preface this with I absolutely hated it (although the diet wasn't hard to stick to at all, and I loved my carb up days). I will keep this unbiased, but do say that I think eliminating macros is not the best way to go.
Onto your questions though.
1) Time between your carb ups will be dependent on current bf and goals. Typically iirc, below 10% is a weekly or less carb up, 12-15% could be like 9 days or so, and 15%+ was like 2 weeks. Carb ups will also be determined by how your body responds to ketosis, how long you have to wait to get into ketosis, and overall feeling while in ketosis (non energy feeling should be gone by week 1.5 if done correctly though).
2) Again if I remember correctly from what I read before doing the CKD, glycogen levels went well below 70 mmol/kg bw. I think it was depleted to 70 or so the day after the carb up via cardio, than dropped down to like 40 during the week of lifting and cardio. Either way an individual who has a lesser amount of glyocgen will be negatively effected in the weight room (this is the biggest reason I disliked the CKD). After your body utilizes the CP system for the first few seconds of lifting, your body will release glycogen to be turned into glucose and eventually usable energy. With a CKD your training is dictated by this fact so you can get glycogen stores to a certain mmol level. As far as post workout meals, I love carbs post workout (when I cut I sandwich my carb intake around my training when my body is most sensitive).
3) This again depends on your body type. Some can easily gain despite having carbs near nothing on a daily basis, whiles others, like myself, don't respond that well. Also based on your other questions, CKD has a set up workout program that they recommend, based on glycogen depletion.
- 07-24-2008, 11:25 AM
Try to keep in mind that carb ups are to load up muscle glycogen stores which are not readily available to increase serum glucose levels. Without muscle glycogen you will not fuel your training retroactively diminishing any possibility for gains. These types of diets were never meant to be the backbone of LBM gains but to help preserve LBM while attempting to decrease BF%
Granted, a certain amount will be utilized for liver glycogen replacement and will effect ketosis but I think it is a necessary evil if you plan to train with any intensity.Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC
07-24-2008, 03:29 PM
You need to research more. All of your questions are very rudimentary and their answers are the basics of the ckd. I promise you the answers are pretty easy to find on google.
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