Whey Digestion Post-Workout

[Triple Cs]

Common knowledge says that whey as vital post-workout to provide the body with quick access to amino acids. The debate is still up on high GI vs. low GI carbs both workout. I personally use both, I basically make oatmeal, add some sugar and whey powder. I used to think that this was a good idea, but I make the oatmeal with milk. I also use milk in all my protein shakes.

The question is, since milk protein is 80% casein isn't that slowing the digestion of the whey. Casein protein slows down the digestion of other proteins. So the 6.4 grams of casein in a cup of milk should stop the whey from quickly digesting.

Does this mean no milk post-workout? I don't know if I can ever get to the point where I would do vanilla or chocolate mixed in water (maybe those expensive, fruit flavored isolates).

 

[BrMe86]

I don't use milk PWO for that reason. I don't mind ON's double rich chocolate in water. I didn't know there was still a debate going on about low or high GI carbs post workout. I think it's important to get the correct amount of those carbs post workout. Why would you want low GI carbs PWO? I always use WMS in my post shake. I eat 30 min after my first shake, then an hour after that I eat again, then again an hour after that before resuming my normal meal pattern. I have protein & carbs in each of those meals. In my second PWO meal if I'm still feeling like crap, then I'll add some high GI carbs. Otherwise, pretty much all of my carbs throughout the day are low GI.

 

[Triple Cs]

Many members of this board use oats in their PWO shake. I also remember Bobo recommending this years ago.

 

[BrMe86]

Ok, I can figure out why. But those that throw in the oats are still using high HI carbs also, right? I guess I'm doing fine because of the frequency of my PWO meals...same difference.

 

[silverSurfer]

Here's my post WO shake:
1 can pineapple chunks in natural juice (no sugar): ~ 85g carb
3 scoops Oryx Goat Whey: 45g protein
Honey or Maltodextrin: ~ 12g carb
Thow all that in the blender, mix, and pretend you're on the beach drinking a pina colada haha

I can't do the oats because of bloating and gas. Plus I think fruit is healthy and I really like pineapple.

 

[AE14]

Here's my post WO shake:
1 can pineapple chunks in natural juice (no sugar): ~ 85g carb
3 scoops Oryx Goat Whey: 45g protein
Honey or Maltodextrin: ~ 12g carb
Thow all that in the blender, mix, and pretend you're on the beach drinking a pina colada haha

I can't do the oats because of bloating and gas. Plus I think fruit is healthy and I really like pineapple.

I never thought of the pineapple before, that is an interesting idea, I might ahve to look into.

how is the goat whey?

 

[jonny21]

pre-workout protein is what really matters. milk is perfectly fine post-workout. no polypeptide is available immediately after ingestion. needs to be absorbed and transaminated to be used. Pre-workout protein ingestion will ensure that amino acids are available post workout. Taking protein in every 3-4 hours ensures amino acid pool remains consistently replenished

 

[edwardyi]

I usually just take 2 scoops of ON whey and eat a oatmeal to-go bar.

48g protein
44g carbs (21g sugar) *Bad thing is, 2nd ingredient: High fructose corn syrup*

But that **** taste so good

1 hour later...

I usually eat 8oz salmon/steak with 1 large potato/60-80g worth of carbs.

 

[arjun4]

youre putting too much emphasis on minutia.

a scoop of whey + a glass of skim milk is the PERFECT post workout drink...

 

[BrMe86]

youre putting too much emphasis on minutia.

a scoop of whey + a glass of skim milk is the PERFECT post workout drink...

Casein DOES slow the digestion of whey. Let's say the OP has 600 shakes over the next three years. That adds up. What if the difference ends up being two or three lbs of muscle. That's significant. It's hard to say, but the little things do add up. Besides, over time the amount of milk saved = mucho dinero.

 

[arjun4]

Casein DOES slow the digestion of whey. Let's say the OP has 600 shakes over the next three years. That adds up. What if the difference ends up being two or three lbs of muscle. That's significant. It's hard to say, but the little things do add up. Besides, over time the amount of milk saved = mucho dinero.

you are talking negligible differences here, definitely not one that that is going to add up to a difference of POUNDS of muscle.

 

[BrMe86]

you are talking negligible differences here, definitely not one that that is going to add up to a difference of POUNDS of muscle.

Over several years with that big of a difference in blood amino acid levels...show me a study that says otherwise. I'll be unconvinced until then. I don't think it's very significant, but it's still significant.

 

[jonny21]

I seriously doubt if there is any significance, especially if we are talking about a relatively well nourished individual.

 

[OCCFan023]

Where is the evidence that skim milk post workout has the ability to deprive an individual of 2-3 pounds of muscle over the course of 3 years?

The debate of whey vs casein vs the perfect type of post workout protein combo is still being studied. HOWEVER researchers have stated that a combo of both casein and whey looks to be the best combo vs one over the other. The difference between digestion time of whey in water vs whey in milk is completely negligible as far as getting nutrients to muscles faster. Unless your training fasted (which i highly doubt you are), the nutrient carry over from your pre workout meal is still providing amino acids and circulating glycogen. With peoples meal frequency on here, people are typically always in the postprandial state and have a good amount of nutrient cross over.

Plus milk has unmatchable natural growth factors and other natural components that are incredible for the post workout period. On top of that, milk makes everything taste delicious.

As far as post workout carb types, I go slow only. Glycogen resynthesis has been shown to be no different between slow and fast digesting carb sources post workout (again this is with the mindset of not training in the fasted state). Unless your training again in 8 hours, rapidly resupplying glycogen has no benefits (plus you get the added nutrients and health benefits of not spiking your insulin levels to absurd levels. Insulin which will already be raised from both training and your pre meal is already at a substantial level for nutrient transport.)

Milk is the nectar of the gods!!! Pass me another glass baby

 

[BrMe86]

Where is the evidence that skim milk post workout has the ability to deprive an individual of 2-3 pounds of muscle over the course of 3 years?

The debate of whey vs casein vs the perfect type of post workout protein combo is still being studied. HOWEVER researchers have stated that a combo of both casein and whey looks to be the best combo vs one over the other. The difference between digestion time of whey in water vs whey in milk is completely negligible as far as getting nutrients to muscles faster. Unless your training fasted (which i highly doubt you are), the nutrient carry over from your pre workout meal is still providing amino acids and circulating glycogen. With peoples meal frequency on here, people are typically always in the postprandial state and have a good amount of nutrient cross over.

Plus milk has unmatchable natural growth factors and other natural components that are incredible for the post workout period. On top of that, milk makes everything taste delicious.

As far as post workout carb types, I go slow only. Glycogen resynthesis has been shown to be no different between slow and fast digesting carb sources post workout (again this is with the mindset of not training in the fasted state). Unless your training again in 8 hours, rapidly resupplying glycogen has no benefits (plus you get the added nutrients and health benefits of not spiking your insulin levels to absurd levels. Insulin which will already be raised from both training and your pre meal is already at a substantial level for nutrient transport.)

Milk is the nectar of the gods!!! Pass me another glass baby

Good post. Some of that conflicts with studies that I have read, but it sounds very logical (more logical than a lot of the studies I have read). I need to go read more. It's more food for thought anyway. Thanks

 

[OCCFan023]

Good post. Some of that conflicts with studies that I have read, but it sounds very logical (more logical than a lot of the studies I have read). I need to go read more. It's more food for thought anyway. Thanks

No problem man. If you still have those studies I would love to read through them just for the hell of it. Some studies however don't always use the best methods/are on the up and up (example companies doing research on products they have potential profits in).

 

[Triple Cs]

I agree. I never really bought into the whole "Get peptide fractions, free amino assets, hydrolyzed whey, 100 GI dextrose..." and the notion that amino acids need to be main lined in 1.5 seconds flat. I think whey and casien are combined naturally in milk for a reason.

And unless it's a huge difference in results, I neither want water in my oatmeal or my protein shakes.

 

[BrMe86]

No problem man. If you still have those studies I would love to read through them just for the hell of it. Some studies however don't always use the best methods/are on the up and up (example companies doing research on products they have potential profits in).

I'll send you that stuff as soon as I can find it again. It's hard to wade through all of the BS to get to verifiable, relevant facts. So many of the articles I have read name studies that support this or that, when in actuality, the study was done on a completely different subject and the author gleaned a little bit of info from that and used it to support his claims. The controls weren't in place to support the author's claims and the "fact" that the author is referring to happened by chance, thus propagating the circle of BS.

This isn't the topic of the thread, but since it was mentioned and you seem to disagree, do you not think that high GI carbs PWO will help to prevent catabolism? Right now with my training, I'm taking every set to failure or near failure (10-20 rep range), with a rest time of 90 seconds or less between sets. At the end of my workout, I am fried. I feel like the PWO carbs help a LOT, regardless of my PrWO© meal & PrWO shake.

 

[OCCFan023]

This isn't the topic of the thread, but since it was mentioned and you seem to disagree, do you not think that high GI carbs PWO will help to prevent catabolism? Right now with my training, I'm taking every set to failure or near failure (10-20 rep range), with a rest time of 90 seconds or less between sets. At the end of my workout, I am fried. I feel like the PWO carbs help a LOT, regardless of my PrWO© meal & PrWO shake.

I don't disagree that carbs pwo are extremely useful, I just don't agree with the mindset of ingesting carbs to spike insulin abnormally fast.

Insulin has the powerful effect of controlling cortisol (which I assume is what you were saying about being very burned out after a workout since you do a lot of failure work) but that is not dependent on what how fast it occurs and the amount. Pwo meals only need to raise insulin a tad beyond basal to be effective and it is already raised from your pre workout meal to a relatively significant degree.

If you enjoy fast digesting carbs pwo than go for it, I am not trying to convince you to change. I'm just explaining my train of thought for what I do and why. I also like the stability in blood glucose levels that slow digesting carbs (plus I find a w/w bagel or some oatmeal much more appetizing than most of the faster carb sources).

 

[gibsonj4]

I just always do 40g protein in water post. I know I should do some carbs u replenish glycogen levels so that's why I got some waxy maize.

 

[MoTiV]

If you sip on AAs while you workout I don't think it really matters right?

 

[gibsonj4]

If you sip on AAs while you workout I don't think it really matters right?

It's supposed to help against muscle catabolism during workout.