New to ketogenic diet - have a few questions
- 05-30-2008, 01:22 AM
New to ketogenic diet - have a few questions
I'm going to be starting a ketogenic diet effective tomorrow, but I'm very new to this type of diet and am not exactly sure how to pursue it.
My bf% is probably at 10% now. I have gotten very lean following a carb tapering diet protocol and dieting down slowly over months. My relative lean body mass is around 180 so I've been trying to take in 270 grams of protein daily with 200 grams of carbs on lifting days, 130 or so on non-lifting days, and a constant 70 grams of fat daily. These numbers have worked very well for me but now I've realized that I cannot get much leaner than I am by continuing to consume carbohydrates. So... I am looking into going ketogenic.
For this diet I am going to try to get around 1 gram of protein for each pound of lean body mass I have, and around the same number of calories I get from protein I'll also get from fat. But I really don't feel like meticulously counting calories... so I'm going to just go by general portions and assess progress in a timely way.
For starters, this is a sample diet I have come up with:
5 whole omega-3 eggs
5 oz meatballs w 2 slices melted provolone
30 g whey with 2 tbsp peanut butter
5 oz chicken breast sprinkled with olive oil and 1 cup asparagus
2 tbsp peanut butter
Same as meal 2 or meal 4
1 cup egg whites with 2 slices provolone and olive oil
I will also be getting protein from salmon and steak and tuna. The above are only sample meals.
This diet is subject to a lot of change. But as for now, I'm going to overestimate a bit with the protein because I don't want to drop too low with my protein intake. 200 is 70 grams less than I've been getting so right off the bat that's less calories I'll be taking in from protein. The fats are there with the protein so I figure everything should pretty much balance out.
Please, if anyone has tried ketogenic or is familiar with ketogenic diets can you tell me if my diet is looking alright? I'm open to constructive criticism on how to change it. I want results from this. I have been dieting for months and I'm not hesitant to deprive myself of anything, much less carbs. In fact, I tend to find I feel better after eating fats than I do carbohydrates.
Even if you don't know much about ketogenics, I'd still appreciate some feedback here if you're reading this.
Thanks a lot to whoever responds...
- 05-30-2008, 03:01 AM
i know its a pain in the arse but you really do need to initially coint calories in my opinion.
keto diet should be around 60%fat, 35% carbs and less than 30gr carbs per day.
now the carb amount is greatly conjectured, it can be more even upto 100gr and some people still stay in ketosis, some people fall out of ketosis walking past a bakery, start low and asses.
also there is a "metabolic" change for better want of a term, where your energy sytems switch from using carbs for fuel to using fat for fuels, you will feel ****ty and crave carbs during this period, for me it usually hits the 3rd day and takes about 48 hours to pass, once it does you will feel great.
one last tip, get most of your fats from good sources and drink a lot of water.
hope this helps
- 05-30-2008, 11:01 AM
i'm trying to figure this CKD out too brutha. not sure how many fat grams i should be getting in per day. i'm right around 300 grams of protein per day, and about 70 grams of fat per day (fish oil, egg yolk, etc.) and i'm starting to think my fats aren't high enough but i haven't found any yay or nay evidence in either direction. any of diet guru's out there familiar with the proper breakdown?
countryboy, 60% fat? i mean i'm all about it if that's how it's supposed to be. mind if i ask where you got that info from?
05-30-2008, 01:12 PM
protein can be glucogenic
your not going to want to eat BW x 1.5/g or more
You'll only need to eat around .8g/lb of BW
You just dont need as much protein while in ketosis to keep your lean muscle mass
05-30-2008, 03:58 PM
Edit: I just tried the old c-k-d site and its gone, can't even find it in the wayback machine with google. Here is a decent breakdown but it doesn't include the calculator
05-30-2008, 04:18 PM
shoot for between .8-1g/lb of BW for protein
The rest should come from fats
I typically eat ~20g of carbs daily while consuming ~2700-2900calories
05-30-2008, 10:56 PM
As helpful as it may be I'm just not going to be counting calories individually. That seems like too much of a headache. I'm taking in at least 20 g fat per meal and eating at least 5 whole meals a day, possibly 6.
Today is day one of my diet and so far I've felt great. I just got back from the gym doing shoulders tri's and a little bi's and I just had great energy the entire time. No fatigue, no loss of strength or power. Grant it, I'm still using stored glycogen. But regardless, I've had no carb cravings. I think my body just naturally responds much more efficiently to fats than carbs.
I'll play with this and determine what works best for me. If at any point I start to see a loss of lean muscle mass then I'll up the protein. I'm taking in 0 carbs as of now. I think if I were to take in even just 25 grams of carbs I would feel like ass so I'm just dropping it to 0. I want to go pure ketogenic as of now. Hopefully it works.
On weekends I'm thinkin I'll do a carb refeed. Has anyone had success with this? Or would a refeed just add an unsightly sum of water weight?
05-31-2008, 06:55 AM
you boys should really get yourself a copy of lyle mcdonalds e-book "the ketogenic diet" it covers all the varying types of keto diets and gives you application and ratios you need to acheive.
05-31-2008, 06:58 AM
just remember that 60% of calories of fat is not a lot of grams, 1gr fat = 9 cals, so 60% fat calories of total inatke of 2000 cal per day is only 133gr of fat.
05-31-2008, 10:00 AM
05-31-2008, 10:38 AM
grams cals %total
Fat: 172 1545 66%
Sat: 61 545 23%
Poly: 30 269 12%
Mono: 65 583 25%
Carbs: 28 66 3%
Fiber: 11 0 0%
Protein: 180 721 31%
Alcohol: 0 0 0%
Thats what I was eating while cutting ( fitday.com )
in 8 weeks I dropped 10lbs and ~2" on my waist while GAINING strength
you dont need that much protein while on a ketogenic diet
Im now recomping and eating ~2800 calores/day with about 225g of protein/day ( im ~ 208 )
Still gaining mass/cutting fat like mad
05-31-2008, 11:18 AM
awesome, going to apply these things and see what happens. thanks bros.
05-31-2008, 12:04 PM
www.fitday.com ........the best thing i ever did, you can put in custom foods and get the values of beef, chicken, vegis, fruits and so on......i personally didn't know that things like carrots had so many carbs in them....stuff like that. go there, plug in all your custom foods and keep track on your other foods you consume throughout the day and every night or morning put them in there and you'll see where your macros are at. best things about it....it's free and simple.
06-02-2008, 12:16 AM
I'm thinking about adding in Arachidonic Acid to supplement my diet since it's already so high in fats. Any thoughts?
06-02-2008, 09:26 AM
06-02-2008, 07:22 PM
06-02-2008, 08:13 PM
I really started to see results after I began logging my food
06-02-2008, 09:04 PM
I weigh a little less than 200 and I'm around 10% bf. So I'm going to start shooting for 180 grams of protein each day with at least 130 g of fat daily and zero carbs. After two weeks I'll assess my progress and see if I made any results.
06-02-2008, 11:30 PM
06-03-2008, 12:02 AM
06-03-2008, 02:24 AM
drink cold water, eat diet jelly, sip hot green tea, chew ice cubes, i have found all these to be really effective to get over that crave, which in all honestly last maybe 2-3 mins tops.
06-03-2008, 02:28 AM
also forgot to mention broccoli and baby spinich and green beans are your new best friends, they add bulk to meals and will help keep you regular.
06-03-2008, 11:31 AM
I'm not really sure how many total cals I need each day so I'm going to ball park it and guesstimate with the portions I eat. For my body type, does 190 g protein and 130 g fat seem reasonable to you? I'm going to try to go 60-70% fat and 30-40% protein. Eating about 6 times a day each meal contains 30 g protein and 20 something g fat.
06-03-2008, 02:41 PM
body weight multiplied by 11 will give you maintence calories. 205lbs. x 11= 2255.
06-03-2008, 04:57 PM
sounds good to me, try it for 2-4 weeks and if it isnt working then switch up the macros a bit
06-03-2008, 07:39 PM
06-03-2008, 09:04 PM
i weighed myself just now. i am 187 pounds which is almost 15 pounds lighter than what i was just a few weeks ago at the beginning of may (i.e. 200). and i know the majority of what i lost is fat and water weight because i lost size around my midsection and lower back and seemed to stay strong and keep my size elsewhere. my goal before i started dieting was to get down to a lean 185.
so using 187 as a benchmark, my "maintenance" cals should be in the vicinity of 2057. so to cut i guess a good strategy would be to subtract 200 and shoot for 1850 cals per day? using this number and going by the 60/40 plan i should be taking in about 120 grams of fat and around 185-190 grams of protein per day.
another question though i have is this: directly after a workout, should i have just protein or protein with some fat... say, 1 tbsp coconut oil?
06-03-2008, 10:02 PM
I dont usually take in fats right after I work out as it will slow the digestion of the protein
you'll want to lower your protein intake ( BW x ~.8 ) and the rest should come from EFA's
06-03-2008, 11:30 PM
As of now, all my fats are coming from egg yolks, olive oil, macadamia nut oil, various fish and coconut oil.
06-04-2008, 10:00 AM
06-04-2008, 10:32 AM
06-04-2008, 12:52 PM
AHHH crap.....your right i was thinking cal-restriced diet, where one replenishes carbs after w/o...........
06-04-2008, 11:33 PM
Yeah. I think I'm just gonna pick up some xtend when i get paid next and do a protein/ BCAA shake PWO, then a protein/ fat meal an hour later. I try to stay clear of any carbs. There are 5 grams of carbs in my protein powder, which is pushing it, but it's tolerable. Any other carbs will come from veggies but I haven't been eating many... I take a fiber supplement a few times a day for regularity.
I've found that I am extremely insulin sensitive as of now. I'm not sure if this means I am in ketosis or no... I have to pick up ketostix to assess that... but case in point the other day I ate some honey roasted macadamia nuts which only had 7 carbs and directly afterward I felt so tired as if I had eaten 100 grams of carbs on a normal diet. Definitely seratonin kickin in to give me that feeling, but either it was induced by my urge to eat carbs or the fact that I am very sensitive to carbs right now. Makes sense either way I suppose.
06-05-2008, 09:38 AM
I never show my body is in ketosis on the ketostix
They have the slightest change so dont be discouraged if no change, you can by the "side effects" - Vivid dreams, dry mouth, bad breath, weird smelling pee, etc
BCAAs helped me to recover better after an intense WO and I believe another couple of good supps to take while on a keto diet is CM and BA to help endurance since your body is lacking the carbs for energy
06-05-2008, 10:36 AM
06-05-2008, 10:38 AM
06-05-2008, 11:46 AM
Very true, certain amino acids are glucogenic and some are ketogenic with Luecine being ketogenic.
I could still tell my body was in ketosis even though the ketostix didnt say so.
I experimented: one week on BCAAs and test then one week off BCAAs and test and I didnt notice much difference on the ketostix
Moral of the story is just because the stix say your not doesnt mean your not, your body may just be efficient at using the ketones
06-05-2008, 11:59 AM
True, it was my first time, so I wanted to see the stix turn a dark purple to let myself know I was definately in ketosis. It was odd, I didn't notice a huge crash in energy and I think I even felt much better overall when I was in ketosis. A low carb diet does me well.
06-05-2008, 12:18 PM
likewise, my cals have increased by about 900 per day since i changed it around and i'm still dropping slowly but surely, and not lacking on energy at all.
06-05-2008, 03:21 PM
I've been doing an HST routine and when im trying to max out every other friday it really takes its toll on me. Im usually completly spent by the time I walk out of the that gym, even with no cardio.
A low carb diet/high fat/moderate protein diet makes me feel good; euphoric feeling almost all the time, constant energy w/ no crashes, I have a more alpha male kind of feeling ( aggressive ), and I feel like my test levels are just higher - which they should be, supposedly.
Im an endo who puts on mass/fat as fast as I want to, I was 215lbs eating ~2300calories a day and putting on mass/dropping fat. My only supps were whey, multi, and fish oil.
This diet has done me wonders and im glad its helped many others!
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