Ephedrine and Blood Glucose
- 03-06-2008, 05:42 PM
I have heard conflicting things. I have heard that ECA can increase BG concentrations and YET people say avoid using insulin when using Ephedrine.......this doesnt make sense to me. what if using slin ONLY PWO? I mean.. if insulin shuttles glucose OUT of the bloodstream and ECA increases blood glucose concentrations than if anything it could only help...?
- 03-06-2008, 07:43 PM
03-06-2008, 08:11 PM
The body wants to maintain a stable BG level of around 90 ng/dL. Anything above that is deemed excess energy and triggers a storage response of insulin until it returns to 90. Below that level (caused by activity), down to about 72, there is insufficient circulating energy and glucagon is released to catabolize stored energy. Below that is considered critical and the body then releases epinephrine (adrenaline) to quickly release stored energy to get levels back to normal.
Ephedrine produces adrenaline-like effects. Dosing insulin at the same time basically tells your body to do two opposing things at once.
03-06-2008, 08:35 PM
03-07-2008, 12:29 AM
If you're taking your ephedrine before your workout, the increased activity will probably use up any above baseline BG anyhow.
Also taking a small dose of insulin (even say 1 iu of Humalog) can be too much for a non-diabetic. Say you measure your BG and it is slightly high, you have no idea how much natural insulin your own body is currently putting out - remember your body wants to get back to baseline and has its own ability to get there. Say your body is already producing 1 iu and you just add another. Now you've taken too much, your BG will now drop below baseline and now your body has to go catabolic to adjust back the other way. Worst case scenario is that you way overcompensate and without dietary carbohydrate to offset, BG tanks to a disastrous level because while your body can turn off its own 'bolus' insulin when levels tank but it can't change that which you inject.
Personally I don't think that the benefits of recreational insulin use outweight the costs/risks. I think those who are on large AAS doses and competing can justify it since they are already sacrificing their health for their careers. However I do think that it is a very poor idea for a non-diabetic to try and manage his or her BG levels by using insulin. You just have no way of telling how much your body is already producing.
If you are going to use it then make sure you take it with an appropriate amount of food (carbs) but that is different from BG control. I know I sound like a broken record but I can't overemphasize the complexities and risks involved.
Last edited by Nitrox; 03-07-2008 at 12:47 AM.
03-07-2008, 01:10 AM
yea I agree with everything you said...but I am not new to insulin use. I have used it with AAS before as well.
I dont think that the natural secretion of insulin PWO is necessarily important to calculate. What I meant was using 2 or so IU WITH an overcompensated amount of carbohydrates. did you assume I meant keeping carbs the same and then adding extra slin? I would agree that is of no use and probably dangerous.
I conclude (for myself at least) that it is probably best used with AAS...and anytime thereafter is not really going to produce the type of muscle growth benefits that would outweigh the risks of use.
03-19-2008, 08:31 AM
good to know, didnt know EC raises glucose ,been tryin to get into ketosis [bodyopus]and having a very hard time .Bought a meter and the lowest I got was 70.Looked into METFORMIN but you cant get without a script[suspect Im boarderline" D" [runs in family] While I searching ,came across GALEGA OFFICINALIS supposed to be what METFORMIN is made from ,anyone ever use?
03-19-2008, 09:33 AM
03-19-2008, 10:34 AM
I was thinking of this the other day. Which has promt my interest to by a blood glucose meter even more. I'm def going to pick one up and not only test this but a few things (BCAA at different doseing, etc....)
Wont be until Mid-May but I'll def do it and make a big thread.
Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative
03-19-2008, 11:41 AM
Say your blood glucose concentration has gone up by an amount X that requires Y iu of insulin to bring back to baseline. If you then take Y iu but also eat an amount of carbs to match then you would end up at X (from ECA) + X (from carbs) - X (from Y insulin) = X back where you started. With insulin and blood glucose it is simply additive and subtractive. The fact that you have elevated insulin in you system does not mean that it will regulate BG to normal, it has to be balanced.
Of course if you are not diabetic, your body's own insulin will work that X back to zero at its own pace once the ECA leaves your system.
03-19-2008, 11:44 AM
03-19-2008, 08:32 PM
03-19-2008, 08:37 PM
03-19-2008, 08:55 PM
03-19-2008, 08:57 PM
quoted from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypoglycemia
Research in healthy adults shows that mental efficiency declines slightly but measurably as blood glucose falls below 65 mg/dL (3.6 mM) in many people. Hormonal defense mechanisms (adrenaline and glucagon) are activated as it drops below a threshold level (about 55 mg/dL for most people), producing the typical symptoms of shakiness and dysphoria. On the other hand, obvious impairment does not often occur until the glucose falls below 40 mg/dL, and up to 10% of the population may occasionally have glucose levels below 65 in the morning without apparent effects. Brain effects of hypoglycemia, termed neuroglycopenia, determine whether a given low glucose is a "problem" for that person, and hence some people tend to use the term hypoglycemia only when a moderately low glucose is accompanied by symptoms.
03-19-2008, 09:17 PM
03-20-2008, 01:53 AM
This figure is too low...from my experience (I test myself all of the time w/ a glucometer). Nitrox is the expert in this area...it is great to have access to his knowledge so definitely pay attention to what he says.
03-20-2008, 01:55 AM
03-24-2008, 04:42 PM
03-24-2008, 04:48 PM
Wait a minute, my bad... norepinephrine does play an underlying role too. I guess it depends on the mode of action. I relate norepinephine increases in reference to NRIs which reuptake the neurotransmitter NE in which it just causes a more wakeful state.
Freedom means nothing here.
03-24-2008, 04:56 PM
03-24-2008, 05:14 PM
03-26-2008, 07:44 AM
Im havin a hard time tryin to get into ketosis ,lowest I got on my meter was 74 [this meter is wacked ,gives diferent readings only seconds apart]this "goats rue" sup thats supposed to be what metformin is made from doesnt seem to work very well --lucky for me I checked and my real metformin just made it thru costoms!
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