Ephedrine and Blood Glucose

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by Nitrox View Post
    If you're taking your ephedrine before your workout, the increased activity will probably use up any above baseline BG anyhow.

    Also taking a small dose of insulin (even say 1 iu of Humalog) can be too much for a non-diabetic. Say you measure your BG and it is slightly high, you have no idea how much natural insulin your own body is currently putting out - remember your body wants to get back to baseline and has its own ability to get there. Say your body is already producing 1 iu and you just add another. Now you've taken too much, your BG will now drop below baseline and now your body has to go catabolic to adjust back the other way. Worst case scenario is that you way overcompensate and without dietary carbohydrate to offset, BG tanks to a disastrous level because while your body can turn off its own 'bolus' insulin when levels tank but it can't change that which you inject.

    Personally I don't think that the benefits of recreational insulin use outweight the costs/risks. I think those who are on large AAS doses and competing can justify it since they are already sacrificing their health for their careers. However I do think that it is a very poor idea for a non-diabetic to try and manage his or her BG levels by using insulin. You just have no way of telling how much your body is already producing.

    If you are going to use it then make sure you take it with an appropriate amount of food (carbs) but that is different from BG control. I know I sound like a broken record but I can't overemphasize the complexities and risks involved.

    yea I agree with everything you said...but I am not new to insulin use. I have used it with AAS before as well.

    I dont think that the natural secretion of insulin PWO is necessarily important to calculate. What I meant was using 2 or so IU WITH an overcompensated amount of carbohydrates. did you assume I meant keeping carbs the same and then adding extra slin? I would agree that is of no use and probably dangerous.

    I conclude (for myself at least) that it is probably best used with AAS...and anytime thereafter is not really going to produce the type of muscle growth benefits that would outweigh the risks of use.


  2. good to know, didnt know EC raises glucose ,been tryin to get into ketosis [bodyopus]and having a very hard time .Bought a meter and the lowest I got was 70.Looked into METFORMIN but you cant get without a script[suspect Im boarderline" D" [runs in family] While I searching ,came across GALEGA OFFICINALIS supposed to be what METFORMIN is made from ,anyone ever use?
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by skull View Post
    good to know, didnt know EC raises glucose ,been tryin to get into ketosis [bodyopus]and having a very hard time .Bought a meter and the lowest I got was 70.Looked into METFORMIN but you cant get without a script[suspect Im boarderline" D" [runs in family] While I searching ,came across GALEGA OFFICINALIS supposed to be what METFORMIN is made from ,anyone ever use?

    I believe you can get metformin without a prescription. just look harder and possibly overseas.

  4. I was thinking of this the other day. Which has promt my interest to by a blood glucose meter even more. I'm def going to pick one up and not only test this but a few things (BCAA at different doseing, etc....)

    Wont be until Mid-May but I'll def do it and make a big thread.
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative

  5. Quote Originally Posted by pudzian2 View Post
    What I meant was using 2 or so IU WITH an overcompensated amount of carbohydrates. did you assume I meant keeping carbs the same and then adding extra slin?
    Yes that was my assumption because that is just the way that insulin works.

    Say your blood glucose concentration has gone up by an amount X that requires Y iu of insulin to bring back to baseline. If you then take Y iu but also eat an amount of carbs to match then you would end up at X (from ECA) + X (from carbs) - X (from Y insulin) = X back where you started. With insulin and blood glucose it is simply additive and subtractive. The fact that you have elevated insulin in you system does not mean that it will regulate BG to normal, it has to be balanced.

    Of course if you are not diabetic, your body's own insulin will work that X back to zero at its own pace once the ECA leaves your system.
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by skull View Post
    good to know, didnt know EC raises glucose ,been tryin to get into ketosis [bodyopus]and having a very hard time .Bought a meter and the lowest I got was 70.Looked into METFORMIN but you cant get without a script[suspect Im boarderline" D" [runs in family] While I searching ,came across GALEGA OFFICINALIS supposed to be what METFORMIN is made from ,anyone ever use?
    Dude, don't try to get your BG values any lower. That really isn't a way to determine if you are in ketosis. Anything under 90 ng/dl and you are using stored energy (fat, glycogen, and muscle).

  7. Quote Originally Posted by Nitrox View Post
    Dude, don't try to get your BG values any lower. That really isn't a way to determine if you are in ketosis. Anything under 90 ng/dl and you are using stored energy (fat, glycogen, and muscle).
    Not to worried about losing muscle as Im runnig TEST . According to the low carb diets [bodyopus/atkins] your blood sugar has to be around 40 ng/dl .If Im wrong about this let me know

  8. Quote Originally Posted by pudzian2 View Post
    I believe you can get metformin without a prescription. just look harder and possibly overseas.
    Yea tried that still waiting almost 2 weeks--in the meantime this stuff is working

  9. Why'd Pud'z get banned?
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative

  10. Quote Originally Posted by skull View Post
    According to the low carb diets [bodyopus/atkins] your blood sugar has to be around 40 ng/dl.
    Dear god... Do they really say that?

    quoted from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypoglycemia

    Research in healthy adults shows that mental efficiency declines slightly but measurably as blood glucose falls below 65 mg/dL (3.6 mM) in many people. Hormonal defense mechanisms (adrenaline and glucagon) are activated as it drops below a threshold level (about 55 mg/dL for most people), producing the typical symptoms of shakiness and dysphoria. On the other hand, obvious impairment does not often occur until the glucose falls below 40 mg/dL, and up to 10% of the population may occasionally have glucose levels below 65 in the morning without apparent effects. Brain effects of hypoglycemia, termed neuroglycopenia, determine whether a given low glucose is a "problem" for that person, and hence some people tend to use the term hypoglycemia only when a moderately low glucose is accompanied by symptoms.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Nitrox View Post
    Dear god... Do they really say that?

    quoted from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypoglycemia

    Research in healthy adults shows that mental efficiency declines slightly but measurably as blood glucose falls below 65 mg/dL (3.6 mM) in many people. Hormonal defense mechanisms (adrenaline and glucagon) are activated as it drops below a threshold level (about 55 mg/dL for most people), producing the typical symptoms of shakiness and dysphoria. On the other hand, obvious impairment does not often occur until the glucose falls below 40 mg/dL, and up to 10% of the population may occasionally have glucose levels below 65 in the morning without apparent effects. Brain effects of hypoglycemia, termed neuroglycopenia, determine whether a given low glucose is a "problem" for that person, and hence some people tend to use the term hypoglycemia only when a moderately low glucose is accompanied by symptoms.
    GOOD STUFF

  12. Quote Originally Posted by skull View Post
    Not to worried about losing muscle as Im runnig TEST . According to the low carb diets [bodyopus/atkins] your blood sugar has to be around 40 ng/dl .If Im wrong about this let me know
    Skull I didn't believe you so I skimmed through Duchaine's BODYOPUS and sure enough you were right. On page 271 he says "Once blood glucose is about 50mg/dl ketones start being produced. They will continue to be manufactured as long as blood glucose stays below 50."

    This figure is too low...from my experience (I test myself all of the time w/ a glucometer). Nitrox is the expert in this area...it is great to have access to his knowledge so definitely pay attention to what he says.
  13. Question


    Deleted.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by LakeMountD View Post
    Honestly this would depend on amount of coffee, a person's insulin resistance, and the time period by which you measured this. Any stimulant such as caffeine is going to cause an increase in blood glucose. It increases norepinephrine, which is what gives you the fight or flight feeling and rapid heart rate. The sympathetic nervous system takes over and blood vessels in most organs such as the stomach and places like the penis restrict, while the blood vessels to the brain and skeletal muscles dilate. This is what causes that spike in blood pressure, the contraction of many of the blood vessels not important to fight or flight.
    Norepinephrine (noradrenaline) is not what causes the fight or flight response. It promotes a state of wakefulness. Epinephrine (adrenaline) is what causes the fight or flight response.
    Freedom means nothing here.

  15. Wait a minute, my bad... norepinephrine does play an underlying role too. I guess it depends on the mode of action. I relate norepinephine increases in reference to NRIs which reuptake the neurotransmitter NE in which it just causes a more wakeful state.
    Freedom means nothing here.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by Force of Green View Post
    Wait a minute, my bad... norepinephrine does play an underlying role too. I guess it depends on the mode of action. I relate norepinephine increases in reference to NRIs which reuptake the neurotransmitter NE in which it just causes a more wakeful state.
    Yeah .
    PharmD

  17. Quote Originally Posted by datBtrue View Post
    For the last two days I've been using my glucose monitor to check my blood glucose after ingestion of coffee.

    • Black coffee w/ no additives = zero rise in glucose
    • Black coffee w/ Stevia = a 2 point rise in glucose
    • Black coffee w/ Splenda = a 5 - 8 point rise in glucose.
    • Coffee w/ Splenda & generic Coffee Mate creamer = 15+ point rise in glucose
    • Coffee w/ Splenda & 2% Lactose free Milk = 17+ point rise in glucose


    The take home message for you is that caffeine in a cup of coffee does not effect blood glucose BUT the additives sure as heck do!

    How do you reduce the rise in blood glucose w/ these additives (besides the obvious)? ....add FIBER.

    So ingesting 2 grams of Psyllium Husk powder just prior to drinking Coffee w/ Splenda & Coffee Mate creamer resulted in only a 4 point rise in blood glucose. WOW!

    I have never done any monitoring of blood glucose after taking ephedrine or ephedrine+caffeine but I don't imagine that it would be that high. But if it were or if it is a concern of yours add FIBER and it should reduce the blood glucose spike.
    this is definately pretty interesting.

    I was worried about getting and staying in ketosis because of the large amount of splenda I consume, and since I drink a lot of coffee. It never did become a problem for me though thankfully!

  18. Im havin a hard time tryin to get into ketosis ,lowest I got on my meter was 74 [this meter is wacked ,gives diferent readings only seconds apart]this "goats rue" sup thats supposed to be what metformin is made from doesnt seem to work very well --lucky for me I checked and my real metformin just made it thru costoms!
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