Cinnamon doesn't lower blood glucose?

  1. Advanced Member
    eatingisfun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    781
    Rep Power
    484
    Level
    21
    Lv. Percent
    78.24%

    Cinnamon doesn't lower blood glucose?


    According to this study, cinnamon has no affect on blood glucose levels in type 1 and type 2 diabetics

    Effect of Cinnamon on Glucose Control and Lipid Parameters -- Baker et al. 31 (1): 41 -- Diabetes Care

  2. Board Supporter
    Nitrox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Age
    42
    Posts
    1,303
    Rep Power
    802
    Level
    27
    Lv. Percent
    11.16%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    I can personally attest to that. As a diabetic I have tried cinnamon, acetic acid, chromium, and R-ALA. All have had zero real world effect on my blood sugar levels.

    It is conceivable that cinnamon and acetic acid do lower a carb's GI by a small percentage. Which would mean that it might only be noticable with really GI foods. However if you are eating large quantities of that type of food you need more help than cinnamon.
  3. Advanced Member
    eatingisfun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    781
    Rep Power
    484
    Level
    21
    Lv. Percent
    78.24%

    Weird. So I guess Cinnulin PF is just junk then?
    •   
       

  4. Board Supporter
    Nitrox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Age
    42
    Posts
    1,303
    Rep Power
    802
    Level
    27
    Lv. Percent
    11.16%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    Hard to say. Seems that many products get launched on the basis of some small scale study.

    However, one thing that I do think is a waste is any non-diabetic investing in products that claim to manage blood glucose levels. Your body does that fine on its own...
  5. Advanced Member
    eatingisfun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    781
    Rep Power
    484
    Level
    21
    Lv. Percent
    78.24%

    True. I see some creatine products that have it though or something similar to try and increase the uptake without the need for spiking insulin so I wonder if it's actually working or not.
  6. Binging on Pure ****ing Rage
    Mulletsoldier's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  215 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    12,226
    Rep Power
    27064
    Level
    67
    Lv. Percent
    41.01%
    Achievements Activity AuthorityActivity ProPosting ProPosting AuthorityPosting Veteran

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrox View Post
    Hard to say. Seems that many products get launched on the basis of some small scale study.

    However, one thing that I do think is a waste is any non-diabetic investing in products that claim to manage blood glucose levels. Your body does that fine on its own...
    I'm curious, as a diabetic do you have an opinion on Anabolic Pump?

    (I ask because the ingredients are being considered as alternative treatments for NIDDM)
  7. Board Supporter
    Nitrox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Age
    42
    Posts
    1,303
    Rep Power
    802
    Level
    27
    Lv. Percent
    11.16%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    I'm curious, as a diabetic do you have an opinion on Anabolic Pump?

    (I ask because the ingredients are being considered as alternative treatments for NIDDM)
    To be honest, up until now I have only seen the name in some threads. I just read the description of it in the AM store.

    Now keep in mind that this is a theoretical only discussion based on the product claims. It sounds problematic.

    Insulin is an energy management hormone for which lowering blood glucose is only a function. Insulin allows your body to use the energy that you eat. When circulating macro nutrients are above baseline, insulin will move the surplus into one of the 'storage receptacles' (ie. glycogen in muslces and liver or body fat). The body, probably for survival reasons, does not discard energy.

    According to the description, Anabolic Pump sensitizes muscles to insulin and desensitizes fat cells to it. However, glycogen is still a relatively small receptacle compared to the nearly limitless capacity of bodyfat. If your surplus energy exceeds the capacity of glycogen storage then where does it go if the Anabolic Pump blocks it from being moved to body fat? Nowhere, back to square one with a surplus of blood glucose and FFAs.

    Now I seriously doubt that Anabolic Pump modifies sensitivities to that extent but it serves for the sake of the argument. While shifting one's genetic program towards leaner bodycomp may be a high priority for non diabetic bodybuilders, doing so at the expense of reducing insulin sensitivity on our largest energy storage receptacle proably isnt the best approach for diabetics.

    Hope that makes sense.
  8. Binging on Pure ****ing Rage
    Mulletsoldier's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  215 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    12,226
    Rep Power
    27064
    Level
    67
    Lv. Percent
    41.01%
    Achievements Activity AuthorityActivity ProPosting ProPosting AuthorityPosting Veteran

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrox View Post
    To be honest, up until now I have only seen the name in some threads. I just read the description of it in the AM store.

    Now keep in mind that this is a theoretical only discussion based on the product claims. It sounds problematic.

    Insulin is an energy management hormone for which lowering blood glucose is only a function. Insulin allows your body to use the energy that you eat. When circulating macro nutrients are above baseline, insulin will move the surplus into one of the 'storage receptacles' (ie. glycogen in muslces and liver or body fat). The body, probably for survival reasons, does not discard energy.

    According to the description, Anabolic Pump sensitizes muscles to insulin and desensitizes fat cells to it. However, glycogen is still a relatively small receptacle compared to the nearly limitless capacity of bodyfat. If your surplus energy exceeds the capacity of glycogen storage then where does it go if the Anabolic Pump blocks it from being moved to body fat? Nowhere, back to square one with a surplus of blood glucose and FFAs.

    Now I seriously doubt that Anabolic Pump modifies sensitivities to that extent but it serves for the sake of the argument. While shifting one's genetic program towards leaner bodycomp may be a high priority for non diabetic bodybuilders, doing so at the expense of reducing insulin sensitivity on our largest energy storage receptacle proably isnt the best approach for diabetics.

    Hope that makes sense.
    You're right insofar as the energy expenditure problematic; if an NIDDM patient is to dose the product, and not exceed the necessary energy expenditure, does he/she remain hyperglycemic? The answer, for the most part, is no.

    This is happening by way of three mechanisms. One you mentioned above being the increased permeability to glycogen of muscle cells, and the second is by way of AMP-K modulation[1,2]. AMP-K is a prominent gene in relation to energy expenditure, and is paramount to inhibiting lipogenesis. Berberine, a constituent of AP, is found to due the stated, and this is part of its antihyperglycemic effect. [2]

    It is interesting you mention the weariness for a Diabetic, because Berberine and Tannins are both extremely promising alternative treatments for NIDDM; especially as it pertains to presenting a viable alternative to synthetic alpha-glucosidase inhibitors. This A-G inhibition was the third MOA I mentioned which imparts Berberine with anti-hyperglycemic capabilities [3]. By inhibiting saccharide release at the gastrointestinal level, this ensures a stable release of blood sugar, and subsequent release of Insulin; also, this addresses the excess blood sugar you mentioned above.

    With GLUT4 translocation shown to be double that of control groups in myocytes, AMPK expression upregulated in adipocytes, lipogenesis controlled, and anti-glucosidase activity in the intestine, Berberine creates an environment which is extremely conducive to not only battling NIDDM, but the symptoms of high blood pressure and obesity which are corollary with this condition.

    In all of the human NIDDM models I have seen Berberine a) lowered cholesterol b) lowered blood glucose and c) addressed obesity.

    And that's not even talking about the Tannins complex in AP! (it's also shown to increase GLUT4 translocation and inhibit adipocyte differentiation).

    [1] Berberine-stimulated glucose uptake in L6 myotubes involves both AMPK and p38 MAPK. Zhe Cheng, Tao Pang, Min Gu, An-Hui Gao, Chuan-Ming Xie, Jia Li, Fa-Jun Nan.

    [2] Berberine, a Natural Plant Product, Activates AMP-Activated Protein Kinase With Beneficial Metabolic Effects in Diabetic and Insulin-Resistant States. Yun S Lee, Woo S Kim, Kang H Kim, Myung J Yoon.

    [3] Berberine Has Some Anti-alpha Glucosidase Activity. Pan G, Huang Z, Wang G, et al,
  9. Board Supporter
    Nitrox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Age
    42
    Posts
    1,303
    Rep Power
    802
    Level
    27
    Lv. Percent
    11.16%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    It is interesting you mention the weariness for a Diabetic, because Berberine and Tannins are both extremely promising alternative treatments for NIDDM... ...By inhibiting saccharide release at the gastrointestinal level, this ensures a stable release of blood sugar, and subsequent release of Insulin; also, this addresses the excess blood sugar you mentioned above.
    I mention the hesitation because diabetes is a disease of energy metabolism impairment, not one of hyperglycemia. The actions of AP are similiar to others that act on treating the, albeit harmful, symptoms of hyperglycemia. Blocking glucose absorption at digestion assists with with blood glucose levels but does nothing to restore impaired energy metabolism (ie. how about we deal with the cause, not the effect?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    With GLUT4 translocation shown to be double that of control groups in myocytes, AMPK expression upregulated in adipocytes, lipogenesis controlled, and anti-glucosidase activity in the intestine, Berberine creates an environment which is extremely conducive to not only battling NIDDM, but the symptoms of high blood pressure and obesity which are corollary with this condition.
    In the context of managing blood glucose levels, lipogenesis is not altogether undesireable. It is a normal function that allows the body to move glucose out of the circulatory system and into storage. With the obesity epidemic, we mistake lipogenesis for a bad thing. Excess caloric consumption is the problem - not the fact that the body tries to store it.

    This of course leads into a lifestyle discussion which I don't think we need to rehash. The one point that I do want to put out there is that these types of treatements can act as poor lifestyle enablers.

    Lastly, much of this is from my perspective as a diabetic. I have been active since my mid teens. When I was diagnosed, I was a moderate to severe type 2. Even though I did well enough at managing my values, I had no idea how badly my athletic performance was suffering. When I opted for insulin therapy, the difference was very significant. Of course it also brings much greater risks. Ultimately to me, diet, exercise, and exo insulin are by far, a diabetics most powerful tools.
  10. Binging on Pure ****ing Rage
    Mulletsoldier's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  215 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    12,226
    Rep Power
    27064
    Level
    67
    Lv. Percent
    41.01%
    Achievements Activity AuthorityActivity ProPosting ProPosting AuthorityPosting Veteran

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrox View Post
    I mention the hesitation because diabetes is a disease of energy metabolism impairment, not one of hyperglycemia. The actions of AP are similiar to others that act on treating the, albeit harmful, symptoms of hyperglycemia. Blocking glucose absorption at digestion assists with with blood glucose levels but does nothing to restore impaired energy metabolism (ie. how about we deal with the cause, not the effect?)

    In the context of managing blood glucose levels, lipogenesis is not altogether undesireable. It is a normal function that allows the body to move glucose out of the circulatory system and into storage. With the obesity epidemic, we mistake lipogenesis for a bad thing. Excess caloric consumption is the problem - not the fact that the body tries to store it.

    This of course leads into a lifestyle discussion which I don't think we need to rehash. The one point that I do want to put out there is that these types of treatements can act as poor lifestyle enablers.

    Lastly, much of this is from my perspective as a diabetic. I have been active since my mid teens. When I was diagnosed, I was a moderate to severe type 2. Even though I did well enough at managing my values, I had no idea how badly my athletic performance was suffering. When I opted for insulin therapy, the difference was very significant. Of course it also brings much greater risks. Ultimately to me, diet, exercise, and exo insulin are by far, a diabetics most powerful tools.
    My comments as it pertains to hyperglycemia were in reference to bolstering the comments on energy expenditure above. The comments insofar as hyperglycemia were a secondary elucidation to the AMP-K activation in adipocytes.

    My comments as it pertains to lipogenesis, were, once again, a secondary mention to the energy use impingement you mentioned above.

    The comments on AG were in reference to your concern about excess blood glucose levels; your original posts did not seem to be primarily concerned with energy expenditure, but the increase blood glucose levels if GLUT4 permeability is down-regulated in adipocytes. In either respect, the upregulation of insulin activated proteins in myocytes as a result of AP addresses the former concern.

    Have you done much research into Berberine/Tannins? You obviously know your NIDDM, but, both of these herbs show much promise as natural alternatives.
  11. Board Supporter
    Nitrox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Age
    42
    Posts
    1,303
    Rep Power
    802
    Level
    27
    Lv. Percent
    11.16%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Mulletsoldier View Post
    Have you done much research into Berberine/Tannins? You obviously know your NIDDM, but, both of these herbs show much promise as natural alternatives.
    No I haven't.

    I think my view is getting lost in the details. I am not suggesting that AP, or other products in this class of NIDDM treatments, are not effective for their purpose. Rather that personally, I am not a big fan of this class of treatments because they do little to restore lost insulin function but instead, try to optimize what remains.
  

  
 

Similar Forum Threads

  1. What lowers your blood glucose?
    By benj851 in forum Supplements
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-21-2010, 11:57 AM
  2. Ephedrine and Blood Glucose
    By pudzian2 in forum Nutrition / Health
    Replies: 47
    Last Post: 03-26-2008, 07:44 AM
  3. Low Blood Glucose
    By CF10 in forum Male Anti-Aging Medicine
    Replies: 99
    Last Post: 09-19-2007, 08:56 PM
  4. high blood glucose
    By phatkid77 in forum Male Anti-Aging Medicine
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 09-01-2007, 04:42 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Log in
Log in