[PhilABowl]

So... yeah. My biceps are way smaller on a camera than they are in my head. I guess it's usually the other way around.

Anyway, couple of quick questions...

I'm 6'2, 220 lbs, been training for about 3 years now. (Up from about 135 lbs 3 years ago)

So, considering I was 135, I look great... but leaving that out, I am really not happy with how things are going... I don't have nearly the mass I want, and I have way too much fat. That's the background.

Now for the questions

1.) Anybody got a good guesstimate of bodyfat? I'm guessing between 16 and 20%. Last time I got it measured it was around 16 but I think I have put on a few pounds since then.

2.) Pardon my poor artwork - but to get my body in the shape I've drawn in there, how much fat do I need to lose, and how much mass do I need to add on?

3.) Can somebody out there please tell me they have these same issues when they look at pics of themselves?

Looks like I need to do some serious modification of my diet and routine :-/ I guess its good that I have put on 85 pounds in 3 years, but at least 20 of it is in the wrong places, meaning fat. Guess I just got to be patient and keep working at it.

Any input anybody has will be somewhat appreciated lol... but keep it fairly polite, i have a long memory

[azr101]

Yeah, dude, your not alone. Your BF% is just really high. The muscle is there, you just can't see it.
I went through the same deal. I bulked like crazy and got really strong...and pretty fat, 5' 10" at 209. I was really strong but hated how I looked except for those times when I was in the gym and pumped up and heaving the heavy weights.
With diet and adding in cardio I dropped down to about 183. Although I'm physically smaller, visually I look BIGGER because now you can see a little muscle seperation, lots of veins and a pretty good v-taper. I'm much happier with how I look now all the time not just when I'm at the gym. Friends and family always are saying how much bigger I got but it's funny cause I actually got smaller.

Don't anybody make this guy feel bad, it takes balls to post up your pics like this. You might want to post this in the weight loss forum though.

[Aggravated]

Not trying to be an ass, but your BF% is closer to 20 than it is to 16. If I were you I would do a recomp. Lose Fat, but at the same time build muscle. I would think after that you would be in a good range BF%. Prolly around 210lbs. Search around for recomp logs and steal some ideas from people in your situation. Good luck bro.

[PhilABowl]

Originally Posted by Aggravated

Not trying to be an ass, but your BF% is closer to 20 than it is to 16. If I were you I would do a recomp. Lose Fat, but at the same time build muscle. I would think after that you would be in a good range BF%. Prolly around 210lbs. Search around for recomp logs and steal some ideas from people in your situation. Good luck bro.

Thanks man. You guys gotta understand its a really weird position for me to be in; I had gotten sick a few years ago and I was down to like 135, but probly 3-5% body fat. I could see the separation between my two biceps even. My whole life, I have been underweight by at least 30 or 40 pounds, and I could eat a whole pizza and it wouldn't stick. Now, I'm 29 and it's a bit of a different scenario

20% sounds like something I can deal with still. I'd like to be 215-225 and about 8% bodyfat.

I posted in this forum rather than weight loss, because I am contemplating my first cycle. Would it be out of line to do an HGH cycle or a cutting cycle as a first cycle?

[azr101]

I don't think a cutter would be out of line. But lose as much as you can naturally by tweaking your diet and work outs first. You could drop 10 pounds of that pretty quick by just tweaking your carb intake.
Once you plateau there, then try some of the otc stuff, like Leviathan or Lev. R.
Once you've plateaud with the OTC stuff then consider the "other" things but don't even think about GH at this point.

Progressively add in regimens and ergogens as you master their application/use and reach the point of diminishing returns, Then move onto the next stage.

[Aggravated]

Originally Posted by azr101

I don't think a cutter would be out of line. But lose as much as you can naturally by tweaking your diet and work outs first. You could drop 10 pounds of that pretty quick by just tweaking your carb intake.
Once you plateau there, then try some of the otc stuff, like Leviathan or Lev. R.
Once you've plateaud with the OTC stuff then consider the "other" things but don't even think about GH at this point.

Progressively add in regimens and ergogens as you master their application/use and reach the point of diminishing returns, Then move onto the next stage.

This is sound advice. You could also do both mine, and azr's suggestions. Recomp, then cut. This way you are more solid/full when you lean out. Up to you though. In any case, you will have to make dramatic changes to your diet in order to achieve your goals. Comfortably I can say that your diet makes up about 85% of your success. Supps are really just icing on the cake.

[PhilABowl]

Appreciate all the input guys. I have spent the last two weeks working on my diet trying to get it in line. I read the Abs Diet by the editor of muscle and fitness. Decent book. Not sure if I'll use all the principles in it, but it definitely had a lot of good nutrition information. I think my biggest sins are not enough meals and too large portions.. instead of 5-6 smaller meals its usually 2-3 big ones.

What precisely is a recomp, is it a cycle, or what? Something tells me when I do a search for recomp I'm going to get 1,024 different results.

[Aggravated]

Originally Posted by PhilABowl

Appreciate all the input guys. I have spent the last two weeks working on my diet trying to get it in line. I read the Abs Diet by the editor of muscle and fitness. Decent book. Not sure if I'll use all the principles in it, but it definitely had a lot of good nutrition information. I think my biggest sins are not enough meals and too large portions.. instead of 5-6 smaller meals its usually 2-3 big ones.

What precisely is a recomp, is it a cycle, or what? Something tells me when I do a search for recomp I'm going to get 1,024 different results.

A recomp is a stage in dieting/supplementation where you basically try to lose fat, but stay at roughly the same weight. Basically, all you want to lower is your bf% significantly, while trying not to lose too much weight.

Basically a "Recomposition".

Since your bf is a little higher than some others, then you may stand to lose a larger amount of weight vs. someone that is 13-15% bf.

Understand?

[Botch]

My advice would be get your diet in order and the fat will come off. No excuses. You had to do a lot of work (eating crappy food) to get to 20% bf and you'll have to do a lot of work to undo the damage. Get off your ass and follow a strict diet and training program for 3-4 months. Once your bodyfat is at an acceptable level then you can consider a cycle to gain the mass that you want. And not to be a downer, but it seems that you will need years of training before you will resemble that silly drawing.

[Aggravated]

You may also see a few lb loss if you were to switch your number of daily meals from 3 to 6. It will keep metabolism running fast.

[PhilABowl]

Originally Posted by Botch

My advice would be get your diet in order and the fat will come off. No excuses. You had to do a lot of work (eating crappy food) to get to 20% bf and you'll have to do a lot of work to undo the damage. Get off your ass and follow a strict diet and training program for 3-4 months. Once your bodyfat is at an acceptable level then you can consider a cycle to gain the mass that you want. And not to be a downer, but it seems that you will need years of training before you will resemble that silly drawing.

All truths. If I gave the impression I thought this would happen overnight, it's a mistake I'm not interested in getting that big next month, just eventually. I know 1 cycle isn't gonna get me there.

Thanks for the input guys. By those definitions I started a "recomp" about two weeks ago. Unfortunately part of that recomp involved adding squats in my regimen that I don't usually do, and f*cked up my lower back so that put me out of the running this week. Same as poops log, gotta remember to give my body time to catch up

I have been slacking on working my legs - I am fine with the size and strength of them, as I have done things like martial arts, etc. I have never really had to do much to keep them in shape, but I have been learning how much of a role things like squats and deadlifts play in hormone secretion and increasing your metabolism so I started adding that in. I also have added in cardio several days a week, ranging from brisk walks outside to cardio machine work.

[Aggravated]

Originally Posted by Botch

My advice would be get your diet in order and the fat will come off. No excuses. You had to do a lot of work (eating crappy food) to get to 20% bf and you'll have to do a lot of work to undo the damage. Get off your ass and follow a strict diet and training program for 3-4 months. Once your bodyfat is at an acceptable level then you can consider a cycle to gain the mass that you want. And not to be a downer, but it seems that you will need years of training before you will resemble that silly drawing.

What would you consider an acceptable level?

[PhilABowl]

Originally Posted by Aggravated

What would you consider an acceptable level?

When I can clearly see my liver and kidneys through the skin lol.

I want to be able to have a nice stomach again. My girl is kind enough to lie and say she doesn't care about abs, but I'm sure if I had them she'd care more

[Aggravated]

Originally Posted by PhilABowl

All truths. If I gave the impression I thought this would happen overnight, it's a mistake I'm not interested in getting that big next month, just eventually. I know 1 cycle isn't gonna get me there.

Thanks for the input guys. By those definitions I started a "recomp" about two weeks ago. Unfortunately part of that recomp involved adding squats in my regimen that I don't usually do, and f*cked up my lower back so that put me out of the running this week. Same as poops log, gotta remember to give my body time to catch up

I have been slacking on working my legs - I am fine with the size and strength of them, as I have done things like martial arts, etc. I have never really had to do much to keep them in shape, but I have been learning how much of a role things like squats and deadlifts play in hormone secretion and increasing your metabolism so I started adding that in. I also have added in cardio several days a week, ranging from brisk walks outside to cardio machine work.

The studies of hormonal secretion from movements like that is kinda vague. Some believe it, some don't. As for the movement though. Stay light in weight and high in reps. Will serve you some good after all this time. If your back is that sensitive, stay away from the free weights for a while. Also try to avoid some exercises where you are forced to hang over top of the weight (like barbell rows) etc.. To strengthen it up you could do some "Good Mornings" with light-moderate weight.

[PhilABowl]

I know for all you "hardcore" guys they are probably considered worthless supplements, but, since I already have them on hand, I was contemplating running DecaVol for 3 weeks followed by Novedex for 3-4 weeks. I like decavol because its a deca precursor and i think it will help build my strength up, and novedex xt, while not a prescription AI, im not on anything "heavy" so I think it will do well enough. Plus, with the amount of fat storage I have, anything that will reduce estrogen can't hurt.

Any strong opinions one way or another?

[Botch]

Originally Posted by Aggravated

What would you consider an acceptable level?

Thats up to the person to decide. I wouldn't give you a ballpark % of bf because I don't think the number is all that important. The mirror will tell when you are at an acceptable level.