Modified CKD or Anabolic Diet - AnabolicMinds.com

Modified CKD or Anabolic Diet

Page 1 of 2 12 Last
  1. Professional Member
    CryingEmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    3,080
    Rep Power
    1634

    Reputation

    Modified CKD or Anabolic Diet


    I want to experiement with a diet that is low carb on now Workout days, and medium - high carb on Workout days.


    The theory is that you eat enough carbs to fill glycogen stores only for the workout plus cardio, then you deplete them from just workout and cardio, and the next day your body is back to using fat for fuel. I wonder exactly how many carbs would be enough though?


    Has anyone tried anything like this?


    Thoughts?

  2. Advanced Member
    Botch's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"   lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Age
    28
    Posts
    760
    Rep Power
    468

    Reputation

    Everyone has a fear of eating no carbs at first since we are told our entire lives that they are necessary to fuel the body. But its a great lifestyle once you let go of this fear. Once fully adapted to the strict Anabolic Diet the weekend carb-ups will serve to supercompenate glycogen stores with enough glycogen in your muscles that it will be spared during the week. An efficient fat burner will only be using this glycogen during aerobic exercise. Honestly, the only day of the week on this diet that I don't feel like doing high rep stuff is on the day right before the carb-up and I just save that day for heavy lifting. Keep in mind I am an olympic lifter and my workouts usually last 1 hr. 45 min. - 2 hrs. (this is the same conditioning program that the football players at my school are on). I also do cardio 3x per week for about 30-45 min. Needless to say diet works great even if you are highly active. And this is running on 30g of carbs per day. Also, if you want to you can time your carb-ups so that they happen on workout days (which will be two of your workouts per week). Someone who plays sports can tweak it if they feel run down and add an extra midweek carb-up. IMO, you should try doing the strict AD first and then fine tune it to your needs if you feel your workouts are suffering (and I highly doubt this will be the case).
    The metabolic diet was made more for the general public. It allows you to play with the ratios of carbohydrates during the day and you may go up to as high as 100g of carbs. Everybody is different, and some might need more carbs during the day but about 80% of people will be humming along smoothly on the strict AD.
    You can also try variations of this diet like the Natural Hormone Enhancement diet, which would have you consuming about 50g of simple carbohydrates post workout if you think it will help. But if your goal is to burn fat at an optimum rate it will serve to help you to skip these post workout carbs because post workout is one of the best times to take advantage of the extra fat burning effects you will achieve without the spike in blood sugar. Additionally, research shows that once you are fat adapted your body doesn't need carbohydrates post workout because IGF-1 shuttles glycogen into the muscles. The same holds true for doing cardio, why would you want to eat carbs right before cardio if your goal is to be as lean as possible? You have people telling you time and time again that if you are a carb-user then you should do fasted cardio in the morning to see the greatest fat burning benefits. But on the AD it doesn't matter what time of day you do cardio because you will still have the same effect on fat burning. Another reason why you might be more interested in the Natural Hormone Enhancement diet is that instead of carbing up two days in a row it would be split into a carb up midweek and one on the weekend.
    My advice to you would be stick to the strict AD for a while before coming to the conclusion that you need more daily carbs. People have this fear that if they drop carbs they won't gain muscle, but I assure you this is only a myth. Last carb-up I consumed 12,000 calories over the weekend and I'm looking LEANER this week and my triceps are pumped and looking jacked. This is the supercompensation I was talking about. There are also many other versions of the diet that will allow you to eat more carbs, but IMO don't fix something thats not broken. You should start here and then you can branch out if you feel the need.
    Fat satiates and as a result you will not be hungry on this diet. You will have a more stable mood and consistent energy from a steady release of dopamine. I've heard stories from people who did the post-workout carbs or going up to about 100g of carbs a day and the spike in blood sugar may deprive you of the consistent energy this diet affords (usually people feel tired after consuming the post workout carbs) as well as the benefit of never being hungry (or full).
    Depriving your body of those carbs during the week will trigger a constant release of growth hormone in the body. And one benefit this diet affords that others don't is that on the first day of your weekend carb-up, your body is still using fat for energy but since you're eating carbohydrates it triggers a huge release of insulin. What does this mean? That your body is RELEASING GROWTH HORMONE AND INSULIN AT THE SAME TIME. Not to mention that during your carb-up your body will release a cascade of hormones triggering a huge rise in testosterone. But it gets better, this cascade of hormones you experience on the weekend will be followed by a large rise in testosterone during the week. Both the weekend carb-up and the absence of carbs during the week are effective because they counter against each other. Why am I telling you all this extra stuff that you didn't ask about? Because IMO, knowing the principles behind the diet will only serve to enlighten you as to why you are/should live this lifestyle. Forgive me if this is information that you already knew, but it will also give the onlookers who know nothing about the AD a chance to hear it too.
  3. Advanced Member
    Jeff's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  180 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Age
    44
    Posts
    638
    Rep Power
    461

    Reputation

    Had to give some rep's for that one

    Could you post what your typical food intake looks like for the day, I just started a CKD again about 2 weeks ago and I am getting sick of eating the same things every day?
    •   
       

  4. Professional Member
    CryingEmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    3,080
    Rep Power
    1634

    Reputation

    Today is the second day. I'm just afraid I'm going to get fat eating all of this fat... and I worry my carbs are too high.

    Honestly the only carbs I get are from brocolli, cucumbers, spinach, they few in whey, and the few in flaxseeds. I don't eat any fruit, bread, etc.....
  5. Advanced Member
    Botch's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"   lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Age
    28
    Posts
    760
    Rep Power
    468

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by CryingEmo View Post
    Today is the second day. I'm just afraid I'm going to get fat eating all of this fat... and I worry my carbs are too high.

    Honestly the only carbs I get are from brocolli, cucumbers, spinach, they few in whey, and the few in flaxseeds. I don't eat any fruit, bread, etc.....
    First of all, don't be afraid that eating fat will make you fat. This is a myth. What if I tell you that the more fat you eat the more fat you will lose? Your body will get rid of what it has in abundance, so it will burn fat if you eat a lot of it. Have you ever heard that if you are bloated you need to drink more water so you won't retain it? This is the same concept. The body will burn fat at a much higher rate if you eat more of it (some people on the AD have their dietary fat intake about 70% of their daily cal intake on a cut).
    Secondly, don't count fiber toward your daily carb intake. If your flax seed is the milled version the only carbohydrate it should have in it is fiber. This is a good thing and I use about 10 tbsps. every day which gives me 20g of fiber. You should opt for around 30g of fiber per day. And whatever vegetables you are eating the same thing holds true. It sounds like you are on the right track. I eat loads of spinach and for every 3.5 cups you only have 1g carb that counts toward your daily cal intake and an additional 3g of fiber. I am the same way as you bro, I get most of my daily carbs from veggies which is the way to go. The extra fiber will only serve to lean you out more and improve cholesterol levels. Oh, and did I mention once you have been on this diet for 3 months that you can eat all the green veggies you want and don't count them toward your daily cals?
    Don't get discouraged if you add a little fat in the beginning of this diet as your body needs time to adjust to using fat as its main fuel source. The first few weeks of the diet I gained a few pounds of fat and then at the same cals I started to notice a reduction in bodyfat past the level of where I started. Stick with it, this is a lifestyle change and not just a quick fix.
  6. Advanced Member
    Botch's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"   lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Age
    28
    Posts
    760
    Rep Power
    468

    Reputation

    Also, make sure your counting every carb you put into your mouth. I mean be as careful as to count the air you breath. Carbs are hidden in a lot of things. People think its alright to consume stuff like gum that has sugar alcohol but these must also be counted as carbs. Its especially important to do this during the break in phase.
  7. Advanced Member
    Botch's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"   lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Age
    28
    Posts
    760
    Rep Power
    468

    Reputation

    Jeff, this is what I ate yesterday:

    Breakfast: 6 eggs scrambled w/ 1/4 cup cheese and 2 tbsps. heavy whipping cream, 3.5 cups spinach.

    Post Workout: 40g Whey Protein w/ 10 caps fish oil.

    1 Hr. Later: chicken breast w/ 1 tbspn. butter and 1.5 tbsps. extra virgin olive oil.

    Lunch: 40g whey protein, 1/4 cup heavy whipping cream. 5 tbsps. milled flax seed.

    Supper: ground turkey, 2 tbsps. natty peanut butter, 1 tbspn. extra virgin olive oil, 1 oz. cheese.

    Dinner: steak, 3.5 cups spinach w/ 2 tbsps. extra virgin olive oil. 5 tbsps. milled flax seed.

    I also switch it up during the week so this isn't set in stone. The only thing that is a staple is the scrambled egg breakfast to get me going
  8. Senior Member
    Leggo my Ego's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  212 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Age
    34
    Posts
    1,487
    Rep Power
    846

    Reputation

    I am a HUGE proponent of CKD. I practically drink EVOO. LOL. It's a pretty amazing diet really, the only diet that I know of where you can be in a Hypercaloric state while losing bodyfat and gain lean mass! Once your body acclimates itself to trace carbs, you'll find it's surprisingly easy to make progress with your physique and in the gym

    After the new year I am going to change it up though. I am gonna log P-slin and I will be doing CKD wit the exception of 75g carbs from oats 1st thing in the am 1 hour preworkout.
  9. Professional Member
    CryingEmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    3,080
    Rep Power
    1634

    Reputation

    Here's what mine has looked like thus far:


    Meal 1: 6 oz chicken breast with 1 TBLSpoon Omage 3 mayonaise, 2 peices cheddar cheese melted over 2 cups brocolli. 1 scoop whey, 1 TABLEspoon flaxseed milled.

    Protein: 66 grams, Fat: 33 grams, Carbs: 4 from whey

    Meal 2: 1 scoop whey, 1/2 TBLspoon natty PB, 1 Tablespoon milled flax

    Protein: 27 grams, Fat: 10 grams, Carbs: 4 from whey, 1.5 from PB = 5.5

    Meal 3: 1 can of chunk lite tuna mixed with 1 Tablespoon Omega 3 Mayo. 1 TABLEspoon natty PB, cucumbers, 2 cups brocolli with 1 peice cheddar cheese. 1 Tablespoon Flax milled.

    Protein: 45 grams, Fat: 30 grams, Carbs 3 from PB



    What do you think?
  10. Senior Member
    Leggo my Ego's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  212 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Age
    34
    Posts
    1,487
    Rep Power
    846

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by CryingEmo View Post
    Here's what mine has looked like thus far:


    Meal 1: 6 oz chicken breast with 1 TBLSpoon Omage 3 mayonaise, 2 peices cheddar cheese melted over 2 cups brocolli. 1 scoop whey, 1 TABLEspoon flaxseed milled.

    Protein: 66 grams, Fat: 33 grams, Carbs: 4 from whey

    Meal 2: 1 scoop whey, 1/2 TBLspoon natty PB, 1 Tablespoon milled flax

    Protein: 27 grams, Fat: 10 grams, Carbs: 4 from whey, 1.5 from PB = 5.5

    Meal 3: 1 can of chunk lite tuna mixed with 1 Tablespoon Omega 3 Mayo. 1 TABLEspoon natty PB, cucumbers, 2 cups brocolli with 1 peice cheddar cheese. 1 Tablespoon Flax milled.

    Protein: 45 grams, Fat: 30 grams, Carbs 3 from PB



    What do you think?
    Looks good but I would add another meal or 2. You got the right Idea. You could bump up the fat content too. Don't fear the fat. My fat grams and protein grams are usually pretty close to equivilent. I like to snack on raw almonds constantly throughout the day
  11. Professional Member
    CryingEmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    3,080
    Rep Power
    1634

    Reputation

    Are you sure you guys aren't just genetic ecto's who can eat anything and not have concequences? I'd like some feedback from an endo.
  12. Senior Member
    Leggo my Ego's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  212 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Age
    34
    Posts
    1,487
    Rep Power
    846

    Reputation

    nah dude, I'm definately an endo, no doubt. That's why I say you'll be amazed at how effective this regimen is. Just knock yourself out on it for 21 days... you'll see results. I wouldn't carb up for 10 days though once you start, to properly deplete glycogen levels. After your 1st couple of refeeds, you;ll be sold
  13. Professional Member
    CryingEmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    3,080
    Rep Power
    1634

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Leggo my Ego View Post
    nah dude, I'm definately an endo, no doubt. That's why I say you'll be amazed at how effective this regimen is. Just knock yourself out on it for 21 days... you'll see results. I wouldn't carb up for 10 days though once you start, to properly deplete glycogen levels. After your 1st couple of refeeds, you;ll be sold
    So don't do 5, then refeed 2? I need a full 10 days? This is going to hinder workouts...


    I figured with all the lifting and cardio I do I could easily be carb depleted within 5 days.


    What about my diet? Is the PB too high in carbs?
  14. Professional Member
    CryingEmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    3,080
    Rep Power
    1634

    Reputation

    Also, should I be hypocaloric or subcaloric right now?

    I've been eating 3000-3200 calories a day which is slightly below maintenance.
  15. Senior Member
    Leggo my Ego's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  212 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Age
    34
    Posts
    1,487
    Rep Power
    846

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by CryingEmo View Post
    So don't do 5, then refeed 2? I need a full 10 days? This is going to hinder workouts...


    I figured with all the lifting and cardio I do I could easily be carb depleted within 5 days.

    What about my diet? Is the PB too high in carbs?
    Well, that depends on you. When I've been off diet for a while and I start up CKD fresh, I deplete for 9-10 days. For me I feel that is best. I do 1 refeed day per week (usually saturday). Your 1st week is going to require some adaptation for sure. You will definately feel flat in the gym and strength will be a little low but dont let that steer you off track... It gets better. I can be totally depleted and have stellar workouts now.

    Quote Originally Posted by CryingEmo View Post
    Also, should I be hypocaloric or subcaloric right now?

    I've been eating 3000-3200 calories a day which is slightly below maintenance.
    Actually, I would suggest starting out a little above maintinence and whittle away from there. You can probably lose fat at or above maintinence believe it or not. This kind of diet is suprising in the way you can lose fat while hypercaloric. Its all about insulin, the storage hormone. If your body isn't secreting much than it won't store calories.
  16. Senior Member
    Leggo my Ego's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  212 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Age
    34
    Posts
    1,487
    Rep Power
    846

    Reputation

    Oh, and regarding the natty PB... Its not too high in carbs, I have like 4-6 TBSP per day
  17. Advanced Member
    Jeff's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  180 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Age
    44
    Posts
    638
    Rep Power
    461

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Leggo my Ego View Post
    I am a HUGE proponent of CKD. I practically drink EVOO. LOL. It's a pretty amazing diet really, the only diet that I know of where you can be in a Hypercaloric state while losing bodyfat and gain lean mass! Once your body acclimates itself to trace carbs, you'll find it's surprisingly easy to make progress with your physique and in the gym
    I like the EVOO too, I have been using alot of Coconut Oil also (cook my eggs in it). Although I did see a post on this site somewhere that said not to use the coconut oil with a keto diet. I might have to look into that. When I first started doing keto diets I would use fitday.com to keep track of everything and make sure my carbs were 20g or under per day. I also have been whizzing on the ketosticks when I add something new to the diet to make sure that there are still ketones present.
  18. Professional Member
    CryingEmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    3,080
    Rep Power
    1634

    Reputation

    Cool, thanks for the information.


    I'm curious, what does a refeed day look like for you, and a 'regular' day?
  19. Advanced Member
    Jeff's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  180 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Age
    44
    Posts
    638
    Rep Power
    461

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Botch View Post
    Jeff, this is what I ate yesterday:

    Breakfast: 6 eggs scrambled w/ 1/4 cup cheese and 2 tbsps. heavy whipping cream, 3.5 cups spinach.

    Post Workout: 40g Whey Protein w/ 10 caps fish oil.

    1 Hr. Later: chicken breast w/ 1 tbspn. butter and 1.5 tbsps. extra virgin olive oil.

    Lunch: 40g whey protein, 1/4 cup heavy whipping cream. 5 tbsps. milled flax seed.

    Supper: ground turkey, 2 tbsps. natty peanut butter, 1 tbspn. extra virgin olive oil, 1 oz. cheese.

    Dinner: steak, 3.5 cups spinach w/ 2 tbsps. extra virgin olive oil. 5 tbsps. milled flax seed.

    I also switch it up during the week so this isn't set in stone. The only thing that is a staple is the scrambled egg breakfast to get me going

    LOL, that looks real familiar. Except I Have been putting coconut oil in my shakes instead of the whipping cream. My new best friend are deviled eggs, take the yolks out of the hardboiled eggs and mix with a bunch of mayo and some hot sauce (I am bad about cooking breakfast, so I can make these ahead of time).
  20. Senior Member
    Leggo my Ego's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  212 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Age
    34
    Posts
    1,487
    Rep Power
    846

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
    I like the EVOO too, I have been using alot of Coconut Oil also (cook my eggs in it). Although I did see a post on this site somewhere that said not to use the coconut oil with a keto diet. I might have to look into that. When I first started doing keto diets I would use fitday.com to keep track of everything and make sure my carbs were 20g or under per day. I also have been whizzing on the ketosticks when I add something new to the diet to make sure that there are still ketones present.
    I like coconut oil too but have heard the same thing. Grapeseed oil is the best IMO but it's pricey
  21. Senior Member
    Leggo my Ego's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  212 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Age
    34
    Posts
    1,487
    Rep Power
    846

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by CryingEmo View Post
    Cool, thanks for the information.


    I'm curious, what does a refeed day look like for you, and a 'regular' day?
    I don't really keep track anymore but Here are the approximate macros for yesterday

    grams cals %total
    Total: 3283
    Fat: 227g 2044 64%
    Carbs: 43g 103 3%
    Fiber: 17g
    Protein: 258g 1030 32%

    Keep in mind the carbs are not net carbs, that figure includes the fiber from various nuts and veggies

    As for refeed... I don't tally that any more either. I just try to keep the fat really low and the carbs 300-350g and the protein 200-225g, which is actually less cals than my low carb days. So far I am down 22 lbs in the past 7 weeks and have lost ~4 inches on my waist

    I hope that helped
  22. Professional Member
    CryingEmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    3,080
    Rep Power
    1634

    Reputation

    I don't feel as hungry with the same number of calories as I do when high carb/very low fat.


    I just had


    Meal #4:

    1 TABLEspoon PB, 1 Tablespoon Milled flaxseed, 1 Tablespoon Omega 3 mayo, 1 can of tuna, 2 oz chicken breast, 1 peice cheddar cheese, 1/2 cup spinach and 1 oz cucumbers.


    Fat: 30 grams, Protein: 50 grams, Carbs: 3 + 3 grams fiber = 6
  23. Professional Member
    CryingEmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    3,080
    Rep Power
    1634

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Leggo my Ego View Post
    I don't really keep track anymore but Here are the approximate macros for yesterday

    grams cals %total
    Total: 3283
    Fat: 227g 2044 64%
    Carbs: 43g 103 3%
    Fiber: 17g
    Protein: 258g 1030 32%

    Keep in mind the carbs are not net carbs, that figure includes the fiber from various nuts and veggies

    As for refeed... I don't tally that any more either. I just try to keep the fat really low and the carbs 300-350g and the protein 200-225g, which is actually less cals than my low carb days. So far I am down 22 lbs in the past 7 weeks and have lost ~4 inches on my waist

    I hope that helped

    What are you stats? Weight, Height, diet experience, etc?
  24. Advanced Member
    Botch's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"   lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Age
    28
    Posts
    760
    Rep Power
    468

    Reputation

    CryingEmo, Leggo has given you great advice. During the break-in phase your cals should be 18x bodyweight. If you are still feeling hungry feel free to bump that number up a bit. Do not go below maintainance cals during the break in period. Its up to you whether you want to do a 12 day break in phase or start with the 5 on 2 off. I personally did the 5 on 2 off right from the start and didn't have any problems. I also came into this diet straight from a diet of 500+g of carbs per day so the transition may have been harder for me than it will be for you. If you stick it out for the initial 12 days you will adapt quicker. Also, your protein intake for you first meal is out of proportion with meal 2 and you should try to bring those numbers closer each meal. They don't have to be perfect but I personally wouldn't go as high as 60g of protein during a meal because the extra protein that your body can't digest is going to be broken down into sugar through gluconeogenesis which will be counterproductive. Also, you shouldn't be concerned about eating too many carbs as long as you are counting them, just write down how many you eat during each meal and you will be able to adjust at the end of the day. For instance, if you've had 4 tbsps. PB then just know that its going to be 10g of carbs that count against you, and if you come to 29g of carbs by your last meal just don't eat carbs during that last meal of the day. If you stick to writing down everything you eat for the first few weeks it will become second nature (and I know writing it down can be a ***** sometimes). In one of your posts it seems like you were still adding the fiber as carbs against you (you put 3 + 3 = 6, but don't count that as 6, count it as 3). Also, let me assure you I am no ecto I was a fatass up until about 2 years ago when I got into dieting.

    Jeff, you can piss on all the ketostix in the world for all I care but its a worthless endevour. The goal of the anabolic diet is NOT to be in ketosis. Ketosis is catabolic and you will not be making progress this way. That is why you are supposed to be eating around 30g of carbs per day, just enough to be hovering above ketosis but not enough to kick your body out of burning fat for fuel. And yes it is true that coconut oil uses a different energy substrate than other fats which can kick your body out of fat burning mode if you use too much. Dr. DiPasquale covers this in the anabolic diet. But if you're using like 1 or 2 tbspn a day I don't think it will matter much.

    Leggo, I also drink EVOO like its going out of style.
    Last edited by Botch; 12-14-2007 at 04:38 PM. Reason: spelling error
  25. Advanced Member
    Jeff's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  180 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Age
    44
    Posts
    638
    Rep Power
    461

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Botch View Post
    Jeff, you can piss on all the ketostix in the world for all I care but its a worthless endevour. The goal of the anabolic diet is NOT to be in ketosis. Ketosis is catabolic and you will not be making progress this way. That is why you are supposed to be eating around 30g of carbs per day, just enough to be hovering above ketosis but not enough to kick your body out of burning fat for fuel. And yes it is true that coconut oil uses a different energy substrate than other fats which can kick your body out of fat burning mode if you use too much. Dr. DiPasquale covers this in the anabolic diet. But if you're using like 1 or 2 tbspn a day I don't think it will matter much.
    Interesting, I am going to have to do some more research
    into DiPasquale and the AD. Thanks for the info.
  26. Advanced Member
    Botch's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"   lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Age
    28
    Posts
    760
    Rep Power
    468

    Reputation

    refeeds should be at 60-65%carbs/20-30%fat/10-15%protein. Its up to you to play with those numbers but you really don't need to be eating much protein at all during the refeed. DiPasquales saw his athletes have the best results around 10%protein during the refeed. I personally opt for at least 400g of carbs per day on the refeed (this ends up being more like 600g for me though). If you skimp on the carbs during the carb up you will certainly be feeling it during the next week when you're working out. Also, keep it 70% clean and then you can have whatever goodies you want to fill up that extra 30% and this will not hinder results. This is the great thing about the diet, you can have a couple pints of ice cream on saturday night or order a pizza from your favorite pizza place without the guilt. Oh yeah, and you can also drink alcohol guilt free during the carb ups as well.
  27. Senior Member
    Leggo my Ego's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  212 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Age
    34
    Posts
    1,487
    Rep Power
    846

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Botch View Post
    I personally wouldn't go as high as 60g of protein during a meal because the extra protein that your body can't digest is going to be broken down into sugar through gluceogenesis which will be counterproductive.
    That is an excellent point Botch!!

    Reps
  28. Advanced Member
    Botch's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"   lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Age
    28
    Posts
    760
    Rep Power
    468

    Reputation

    CryingEmo, I'm going to see if I can pull up a couple posts for you about some pure endo's results with this diet. I think you will be pleasantly surprised.
  29. Senior Member
    Leggo my Ego's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  212 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Age
    34
    Posts
    1,487
    Rep Power
    846

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by CryingEmo View Post
    What are you stats? Weight, Height, diet experience, etc?
    5'8" - 206 lbs- about 12-15% bf at the moment - Bulked and cut on lots of different diet schemes. Used to diet on a 45/40/15 type of a ratio and I was turned on to this diet after reading lots of stuff about it on AM and other sites.

    I decided to try it out for the 1st time about a year and a half ago and made great progress with it.

    When you start a CKD, it will f*ck with your head a little but keep at it and you will like the results. I think CKD works best for those who are endo IMO
  30. Advanced Member
    Botch's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"   lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Age
    28
    Posts
    760
    Rep Power
    468

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
    Interesting, I am going to have to do some more research
    into DiPasquale and the AD. Thanks for the info.
    You may notice you're dipping into ketosis at first and this is normal during the transition phase. But by the 6 week mark on this diet there should be no ketones in your urine.
  31. Professional Member
    CryingEmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    3,080
    Rep Power
    1634

    Reputation

    What do you think about using Xtend on the anabolic diet? 1-3 serving during WO?


    I know that iso-luceine and valine are glucogenic, but when converting to glucose one serving results in 3.5 carbs.

    Would straight luecine be better?
  32. Advanced Member
    Botch's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"   lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Age
    28
    Posts
    760
    Rep Power
    468

    Reputation

    Interesting post by DH on the Anabolic Diet forum on T-Nation. Hes a real authority on this diet and has been on it for 12 years now since Mauro published the AD in 1995. This is a post in regards to a question asked about ketogenic diets that you see today:

    Duchaine embellished much. Dr. D was using his diet in the 70's for his PL training. He didn't publish it in a popular way. Duchaine rewrote the Rebound diet as BodyOpus. Rebound was Zumpano's idea. Duchaine was a bit of a thief and an opportunistic tag along. Gironda and Rheo Blair began the idea of a fat/protein diet with targeted hits of carbs for anabolic effect. DiPas reworked it into the AD, which had significant differences. BO didn't work nearly as well and is a bear to follow because he gets nuts with his timing and sources. Dr. D has commented on Dan's lack of formal education showing through in the Opus.

    For example Duchiane focuses on ketones and ketostix. Dr. D says after a few weeks you are converted and "weaned" off of ketones and are burning fatty acids. The diet is not ketogenic at all, but Dan didn't understand that. Most don't. Most of the half-informed people on the site or in your everyday life will assume you are on a ketogenic diet such as Atkins. Then you'll hear that ketosis is very bad long term (Lyle MacDonald) and they'll never pay attention to the words out of Dr. D's mouth. IT IS NOT A KETO DIET. DiPas calls it simply a cyclical diet. Ketosis is not a good thing and should be a transitory state before you take off the training wheels and really get going. In short, avoid BO. Or try it out and see it's shortfalls firsthand.

    Best,
    DH

    PS. My favorite other "argument" against the AD. "Your brain needs carbs!" Wrong. I'll save that for another day on the thread. It's time for protein powder, almonds, and some slim jims.
    Last edited by Botch; 12-14-2007 at 04:59 PM. Reason: clarification
  33. Advanced Member
    Botch's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"   lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Age
    28
    Posts
    760
    Rep Power
    468

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by CryingEmo View Post
    What do you think about using Xtend on the anabolic diet? 1-3 serving during WO?


    I know that iso-luceine and valine are glucogenic, but when converting to glucose one serving results in 3.5 carbs.

    Would straight luecine be better?
    Xtend is a great idea! During a workout its perfect.
  34. Professional Member
    CryingEmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    3,080
    Rep Power
    1634

    Reputation

    18x my bodyweight is 4200 calories, wayyy above maintenance level. Wow, that seems like alot. I'm usually closer to 3400 if that.
  35. Advanced Member
    Botch's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"   lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Age
    28
    Posts
    760
    Rep Power
    468

    Reputation

    If it feels like too much you can start at 15x bodyweight, but Mauro doesn't recommend going any lower than that during the break in period.
  36. Advanced Member
    Botch's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"   lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Age
    28
    Posts
    760
    Rep Power
    468

    Reputation

    Also, this diet is extremely protein sparing. You can get away with as little as 1g protein per pound of bodyweight on this diet. So if you feel like your not meeting those daily needs, just down a couple more tbsps. EVOO and you'll be good to go.
  37. Senior Member
    Leggo my Ego's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  212 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Age
    34
    Posts
    1,487
    Rep Power
    846

    Reputation

    yah.. Drink evoo!! LOL I rarely ever even measure it out anymore! I keep my evoo in a squeeze bottle (a plastic oil/vinigar bottle) and just give a hefty squeeze into my mouth with meals. haha
  38. Professional Member
    CryingEmo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    3,080
    Rep Power
    1634

    Reputation

    I just did 30 minutes of cardio and I crashed hard afterwards. I felt very weak, like hypoglycemic feeling.

    I came home and ate like 800 calories, eggs, cheese, EVOO, spinach, 2 oz chicken, 1 TBLspoon omega 3 mayo... I feel a little better now. I'm scared my carbs are too high however.


    The ON Whey I've been using has 4 grams carbs per serving. I've had 3 1/2 scoops today, which is 16 carbs alone. Factor in 2 serving of Xtend, which could potentially be another 7 carbs, making it 23. Next I've had about 3 Tablespoons of PB, which is 9 carbs - fiber, making it 5. Some of the cheeses may have had 1 or two grams. I'm pretty damn close to the limit. Maybe I need to cut out Whey.
  39. Senior Member
    Leggo my Ego's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  212 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Age
    34
    Posts
    1,487
    Rep Power
    846

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by CryingEmo View Post
    I just did 30 minutes of cardio and I crashed hard afterwards. I felt very weak, like hypoglycemic feeling.

    I came home and ate like 800 calories, eggs, cheese, EVOO, spinach, 2 oz chicken, 1 TBLspoon omega 3 mayo... I feel a little better now. I'm scared my carbs are too high however.


    The ON Whey I've been using has 4 grams carbs per serving. I've had 3 1/2 scoops today, which is 16 carbs alone. Factor in 2 serving of Xtend, which could potentially be another 7 carbs, making it 23. Next I've had about 3 Tablespoons of PB, which is 9 carbs - fiber, making it 5. Some of the cheeses may have had 1 or two grams. I'm pretty damn close to the limit. Maybe I need to cut out Whey.
    Hey Emo, Your carbs look fine to me. as long as your carbs are 5% or less (preferably less) of total cals... you're doing good
  40. Advanced Member
    Botch's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"   lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Age
    28
    Posts
    760
    Rep Power
    468

    Reputation

    Yeah your carbs are lookin okay bro. You should pick up some flavorless whey protein. It tastes like a dirty jockstrap but it only has 1g carb per 25g of protein. To make it taste less like a toilet bowl I usually throw in an equal or two and some cinammon to mask it. Another good way to make a pretty good shake out of flavorless whey is to add some sugar free jello and heavy whipping cream. NOW makes some flavorless protein and some online retailers sell 5 lbs. for $30.
  •   

      
     

Similar Forum Threads

  1. UD 2.0 or Anabolic Diet
    By wti66stang in forum Weight Loss
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 03-25-2010, 02:09 PM
  2. Neovar with CKD or velocity diet
    By wearedbleedblue in forum Supplements
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 01-22-2009, 02:45 PM
  3. Basics of the CKD or Anabolic Diet
    By SuppKnight in forum Weight Loss
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 12-31-2008, 10:22 PM
  4. Any recommended supps for CKD or Palumbo Diets?
    By swankinrosco in forum Nutrition / Health
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 11-23-2008, 02:33 AM
  5. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 05-07-2004, 01:48 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Log in
Log in