Health Benefits of Saturated Fats

[Al Shades]

HEALTH BENEFITS OF SATURATED FATS - they enhance immunity, kill bacteria and viruses, help calcium absorption.... and are excellent for high heat cooking because of their stability

What if Bad Fat Is Actually Good for You? - Page 1 - MSN Health & Fitness - Cholesterol

We bodybuilders pride ourselves on our cutting edge knowledge of nutrition, metabolism, and supplementation, yet how many of us still adhere to the antiquated and invalidated cholesterol hypothesis from the 1950's?

The lipid-heart theory is going to go down as one of the biggest medical frauds in history. It's time to roll back decades worth of public misinformation, and people in the health and fitness community should lead the charge.

Not only are animal fats perfectly healthy, but they are the most anabolic food sources around. This makes them ideal for bodybuilding.

[beallio]

Not only are animal fats perfectly healthy, but they are the most anabolic food sources around. This makes them ideal for bodybuilding.

mmmm.....fats yummmmy. BTW, thank you for starting this thread. Lets get a dialog going. I for one am thoroughly interested now that I'm on a CKD.

Here's another interesting, pro-fat articles analyzing the link between fat consumption and positive responses in the treatment of cancer patients:
Can a High-Fat Diet Beat Cancer?
http://www.time.com/time/health/arti...662484,00.html

[Australian made]

HEALTH BENEFITS OF SATURATED FATS - they enhance immunity, kill bacteria and viruses, help calcium absorption.... and are excellent for high heat cooking because of their stability

What if Bad Fat Is Actually Good for You? - Page 1 - MSN Health & Fitness - Cholesterol

We bodybuilders pride ourselves on our cutting edge knowledge of nutrition, metabolism, and supplementation, yet how many of us still adhere to the antiquated and invalidated cholesterol hypothesis from the 1950's?

The lipid-heart theory is going to go down as one of the biggest medical frauds in history. It's time to roll back decades worth of public misinformation, and people in the health and fitness community should lead the charge.

Not only are animal fats perfectly healthy, but they are the most anabolic food sources around. This makes them ideal for bodybuilding.

So tell me what does your diet look like. I'm intrigued.

[iDShaDoW]

Yeah, I don't have any links but I've read in the past that lots of the medical studies stating that saturated fats are bad for you didn't distinguish between saturated and trans fats which are really the ones that're bad for you and not the saturated fats themselves.

[Distilled Water]

Reading that makes me feel a little better about doing CKD/TKD with X-factor in the future....pass me the virgin coconut oil please

[beallio]

Reading that makes me feel a little better about doing CKD/TKD with X-factor in the future....pass me the virgin coconut oil please

Which reminds me, I need to go to the store to pick some more up. I eat it by the spoon...just let it melt in your mouth. So good.

[Al Shades]

Yeh, good stuff. Btw, I know CKD but what's TKD stand for?

[John Smeton]

yeah thats some of the only sat I use coconut oil.

Maybe some light mayo in tuna , not much

maybe some in lean beef

other than that not much sat fat

I hear Arnold used to eat mayo sandwiches and say its anabolic.

[Distilled Water]

Yeh, good stuff. Btw, I know CKD but what's TKD stand for?

I'm not sure,lol. It is along the same lines as CKD only you you take in carbs around workout time usually less than 100gr total. I also dont think there are re-feeds but if there are they are much mroe restricted.

[Nitrox]

We bodybuilders pride ourselves on our cutting edge knowledge of nutrition, metabolism, and supplementation, yet how many of us still adhere to the antiquated and invalidated cholesterol hypothesis from the 1950's?

The lipid-heart theory is going to go down as one of the biggest medical frauds in history. It's time to roll back decades worth of public misinformation, and people in the health and fitness community should lead the charge.

We are often so driven in the pursuit of new information that we buy into each and every new THEORY. Theories are nothing more than educated guesses and frequently they are based on the idea that if some is good then more is better (or vice versa.) Consequently they are often incorrect however due to the difficulties in performing objective studies they go unchallenged for long periods of time.

Not only are animal fats perfectly healthy, but they are the most anabolic food sources around. This makes them ideal for bodybuilding.

Healthy (in balance)? Probably. Most anabolic and ideal for bodybuilding? That is a tall claim and is no less sensational than those from the anti-fat movement.

[beallio]

Healthy (in balance)? Probably. Most anabolic and ideal for bodybuilding? That is a tall claim and is no less sensational than those from the anti-fat movement.

Not really a tall claim when you consider the studies on fat intake and resulting testosterone production:

Hamalainen E, Adlercreutz H, Puska P, Pietinen P. "Diet and serum sex hormones in healthy men." J Steroid Biochem. 1984 Jan;20(1):459-64. PMID: 6538617.

The possible effect of dietary fat content and the ratio of polyunsaturated to saturated fatty acids (P/S-ratio) on serum sex hormones was studied in 30 healthy male volunteers. The customary diet of the subjects, which supplied 40% of energy as fat (mainly from animal sources, P/S-ratio 0.15) was replaced for a 6 weeks period by a practically isocaloric experimental diet containing significantly less fat (25% of energy) with a higher P/S-ratio (1.22) and other environmental factors were stabilized. Serum testosterone and 4-androstenedione decreased from 22.7 +/- 1.1 nmol/l to 19.3 +/- 1.2 nmol/l, (SEM, P less than 0.001) and from 4.6 +/- 0.2 nmol/l to 4.3 +/- 0.2 nmol/l (SEM, P less than 0.01), respectively. These changes were paralleled by a reduction in serum free (non-protein bound) testosterone (P less than 0.01) suggesting a possible change in biological activity. During the low fat period a significant negative correlation between serum prolactin and androgens was observed. All the changes in androgen levels were reversible. With the exception of a small but non-significant decrease in serum estradiol-17 beta, the other hormone parameters were practically unaffected by the dietary manipulation. Our results indicate that in men a decrease in dietary fat content and an increase in the degree of unsaturation of fatty acids reduces the serum concentrations of androstenedione, testosterone and free testosterone. The mechanism and importance of this phenomenon is discussed in the light of epidemiological and experimental data.

Wang C, Catlin DH, Starcevic B, Heber D, Ambler C, Berman N, Lucas G, Leung A, Schramm K, Lee PW, Hull L, Swerdloff RS. "Low Fat High Fiber Diet Decreased Serum and Urine Androgens in Men." J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2005 Mar 1. PMID: 15741266.

To validate our hypothesis that reduction in dietary fat may result in changes in androgen metabolism, 39 middle-aged white, healthy men (50 to 60 yr) were studied while they were consuming their usual high fat, low fiber diet and after 8 weeks modulation to an isocaloric low fat, high fiber diet. Mean body weight decreased by 1 Kg whereas total caloric intake, energy expenditure and activity index were not changed. After diet modulation, mean serum testosterone (T) concentration fell (P < 0.0001) accompanied by small but significant decreases in serum free testosterone (P = 0.0045), 5 {alpha} dihydrotestosterone (DHT, P = 0.0053), and adrenal androgens (Androstendione, P = 0.0135; DHEA-S, P = 0.0011). Serum estradiol and sex hormone binding globulin showed smaller decreases. Parallel decreases in urinary excretion of some testicular and adrenal androgens were demonstrated. Metabolic clearance rates of T were not changed and production rates of T showed a downward trend while on low fat diet modulation. We conclude that reduction in dietary fat intake (and increase in fiber) results in 12% consistent lowering of circulating androgens levels without changing the clearance.

[beallio]

I'm not sure,lol. It is along the same lines as CKD only you you take in carbs around workout time usually less than 100gr total. I also dont think there are re-feeds but if there are they are much mroe restricted.

SKD = "Standard Ketogenic Diet" (i.e. Atkins)
Constant and consistent low-carb, high fat, moderate protein intake.

CKD = "Cyclical Ketogenic Diet"
Similiar to above, but with the inclusion of a periodized "Carb-up" day, typically occurs every 5-7 days for a span of 24-48 hrs. Based on individuals needs and requirements periodization (time between refeeds) may be shortened or lengthened.

TKD = "Targeted Ketogenic Diet" or Timed Ketogenic Diet
Again, similiar to SKD, but carb consumption takes place near training either before, after, or before and after. "Carb-up" refeeds generally do not occur due to higher consumption of carbs on a daily basis to replace lost glycogen; however, some individuals may opt for periodized refeeds as well.

[Nitrox]

Not really a tall claim when you consider the studies on fat intake and resulting testosterone production:

I did not deny that there are no potentially positive aspects to inclusion of saturated fats in one's diet.

Instead: Define anabolic and how saturated fat is the most anabolic of all food sources. How is it ideal? To the exclusion of all other nutrients?

[jonny21]

Not really a tall claim when you consider the studies on fat intake and resulting testosterone production:

Our results indicate that in men a decrease in dietary fat content and an increase in the degree of unsaturation of fatty acids reduces the serum concentrations of androstenedione, testosterone and free testosterone. The mechanism and importance of this phenomenon is discussed in the light of epidemiological and experimental data.

We conclude that reduction in dietary fat intake (and increase in fiber) results in 12% consistent lowering of circulating androgens levels without changing the clearance.

Apples and oranges. Low dietary fat intake and high saturated fat intake are 2 different animals.

Whatever happened to a balanced nutritional approach?

More is not always better, its just more.

[Al Shades]

Apples and oranges. Low dietary fat intake and high saturated fat intake are 2 different animals.

Whatever happened to a balanced nutritional approach?

More is not always better, its just more.

Healthy (in balance)? Probably. Most anabolic and ideal for bodybuilding? That is a tall claim and is no less sensational than those from the anti-fat movement.

Milk. Red Meat. Eggs.

These are known to be highly anabolic foods for bodybuilding. Do you think it's a coincidence that all of them are high in saturated fat? I don't think so.

Furthermore:
Do you think it's a coincidence that steroids, which are hugely anabolic, have cholesterol elevating properties as one of their primary side effects?

Do you think it's a coincidence that diets which lower cholesterol tend to be vegetarian, and are notoriously bad for gaining or maintaining lean body mass?

Those are some very strong correllations to pass off as mere coincidences.

The way I see it, there's pretty much a linear relationship between animal fat consumption and anabolism. I highly doubt that anyone attains a significant level of muscular development with low levels of cholesterol.

I don't see these claims as sensational.

TKD = "Targeted Ketogenic Diet" or Timed Ketogenic Diet
Again, similiar to SKD, but carb consumption takes place near training either before, after, or before and after. "Carb-up" refeeds generally do not occur due to higher consumption of carbs on a daily basis to replace lost glycogen; however, some individuals may opt for periodized refeeds as well.

Thanks for the clarification. The diet I've been following is pretty much TKD. Although, it's unlikely that I'm ever in ketosis, now that I'm in a caloric surplus and eating carbs every day.

Apples and oranges. Low dietary fat intake and high saturated fat intake are 2 different animals.

Whatever happened to a balanced nutritional approach?

More is not always better, its just more.

So, do you think everybody should eat 33/33/33...just because it's the safest approach on paper? What if the human body requires some things more than others? Since it is made from fats and proteins, why not eat only fats and proteins? What part of the human body is made from carbohydrates? What is the actual mininum requirement for carbs?

Just because the majority of the population has adopted certain eating habits doesn't mean that they are necessarily correct and have any place in a healthy diet regimen. Would you, today, recommend a "healthy balance" of margarine in people's diets, to offset other sources of fat? Well, why not? Are we more concerned about maintaining the appearance of "balance" or about finding out the optimal source of nutrition for humans? I'm all about the latter. You can have your "balance".

You're not going to get a balanced approach because the dogma has been unbalanced for more than 50 years. It's been anti-fat the whole way through. Even today, even among people who should really know better, it still persists. Why do bodybuilders eat egg whites instead of whole eggs? Because they're as fat-phobic as your grandma. People deny, deny, deny, but I still see it all the time. Bodybuilders reject the most anabolic food sources around because of a medical myth that's been perpetuated for 50 years. It is time for the pendulum to swing in the opposite direction. Don't expect moderation to emerge from extremism. Expect us to fight fire with fire. We will now embrace fats as strongly as they were rejected by many others for decades. And after we've tried the "high fat" craze for several decades, then maybe we'll give moderation a shot. But probably not, since low-carb seems to be the way to go.

[Nitrox]

I did not deny that there are no potentially positive aspects to inclusion of saturated fats in one's diet.

Instead: Define anabolic and how saturated fat is the most anabolic of all food sources. How is it ideal? To the exclusion of all other nutrients?

Milk. Red Meat. Eggs.

These are known to be highly anabolic foods for bodybuilding. Do you think it's a coincidence that all of them are high in saturated fat? I don't think so.

Maltodextrin and fish oil are also highly anabolic. Any food with a net non-zero calorie content can be highly anabolic when consumed in sufficient quantity. What does saturated fat have to do with it? You claimed they were the MOST anabolic food sources...

Furthermore:
Do you think it's a coincidence that steroids, which are hugely anabolic, have cholesterol elevating properties as one of their primary side effects?

Which is the cause and which is the effect? Are you saying that the effect 'effects' the cause?

Do you think it's a coincidence that diets which lower cholesterol tend to be vegetarian, and are notoriously bad for gaining or maintaining lean body mass?

Evidence? How about because vegetarian diets are notoriously lower in energy content and any energy deficit will trigger catabolism? Wasn't Bill Pearl a vegetarian?

Those are some very strong correllations to pass off as mere coincidences.

They are if you consider that there are alternative explanations such as those that I have listed.

The way I see it, there's pretty much a linear relationship between animal fat consumption and anabolism. I highly doubt that anyone attains a significant level of muscular development with low levels of cholesterol.

I don't see these claims as sensational.

Linear relationship? Sorry gotta nitpick on this one. Linear implies a certain mathematical relationship that requires quantitative analysis. You don't have any numbers do you?

[Nitrox]

So, do you think everybody should eat 33/33/33...just because it's the safest approach on paper? What if the human body requires some things more than others? Since it is made from fats and proteins, why not eat only fats and proteins? What part of the human body is made from carbohydrates? What is the actual mininum requirement for carbs?

Since anabolism requires energy and carbs are a source of energy, they can be used to build all parts of the human body. They can also be converted to fat and stored as adipose tissue.

I did some quick calculations (youre welcome to check them) and human breast milk is about 5% protein, 53% fat, and 42% carbohydrate. No we're not babies, but it makes for good debate.

Just because the majority of the population has adopted certain eating habits doesn't mean that they are necessarily correct and have any place in a healthy diet regimen. Would you, today, recommend a "healthy balance" of margarine in people's diets, to offset other sources of fat? Well, why not? Are we more concerned about maintaining the appearance of "balance" or about finding out the optimal source of nutrition for humans? I'm all about the latter. You can have your "balance".

No they are necessarily correct but neither is yours. Determining the 'correct' nutrient intake (if there is one) is, in practicality, impossible with current knowledge and technology.

You're not going to get a balanced approach because the dogma has been unbalanced for more than 50 years. It's been anti-fat the whole way through. Even today, even among people who should really know better, it still persists. Why do bodybuilders eat egg whites instead of whole eggs? Because they're as fat-phobic as your grandma. People deny, deny, deny, but I still see it all the time. Bodybuilders reject the most anabolic food sources around because of a medical myth that's been perpetuated for 50 years. It is time for the pendulum to swing in the opposite direction. Don't expect moderation to emerge from extremism. Expect us to fight fire with fire. We will now embrace fats as strongly as they were rejected by many others for decades. And after we've tried the "high fat" craze for several decades, then maybe we'll give moderation a shot. But probably not, since low-carb seems to be the way to go.

Now here is what it really comes down to. You have a serious emotional attachment to your argument. If you can make a case by presenting ALL the facts and arguments, objectively weighing them out, and identifying support for your position then I will be more than happy to give you credit. However, fanning flames of a pro fat crusade is hardly the way to gain any scientific credibility - assuming that you would want any.

[beallio]

Nitrox, I believe Al Shades is speaking in terms of relatives when he says "most". Of course the majority of food sources may be anabolic. Anabolic, by definition, is the process of building tissue from simpler molecules.

You make some key points and counterarguments, but similiar to your objections to Al Shades reasoning, you do not supply statistics nor research to back up your claims. Correlation does not imply causation. For every anecdotal example we may post, I have no doubt you could post similiar examples to support your belief in carbs.

If you are going to be critical of Al Shades not providing sufficient sources of information, and/or supporting quantative analyses, please post your sources and statistics. Otherwise, you run the risk of hypocrisy. If such data is available to support your claims and you make it known to the board, I for one would be highly interested.

The human body is a wonderfully complex mechanism, and I believe we are only scraping the tip of the iceberg of understanding its underlying functions and processes.

[beallio]

I did some quick calculations (youre welcome to check them) and human breast milk is about 5% protein, 53% fat, and 42% carbohydrate. No we're not babies, but it makes for good debate.

If I'm not mistaken, the milk of carnivores in the animal kingdom also contain carbohydrates, yet the majority of these animals (let's use a lion for example) subsist on the flesh of other animals. What are the primary macronutrients of their food source, flesh, contain? Fat and protein. What does this simple example highlight? Carbs may be necessary when young, but past a certain stage in development may no longer be necessary.

Of course how to do explain herbivores who subsist primarily on vegetation....fat and protein aren't needed past a certain stage in development?

[srx600]

Now that you say that cholesterol levels are an indicator of anabolism, I have a real life example. A friend of mine who is 19 years old, the most shredded and built guy I know, trains low intensity, 3-4 days a week. Doesn't really try all that much, takes no supps, not even protein. He is probably 200+lbs at 5"10 and about 7% naturally. He is not an ecto, he was never skinny. He is the purest meso I have seen. Last year we convinced him to join a amateur bodybuilding competition and he won. Keep in mind, no supps and he doesn't take his training as seriously as "we" do. Now getting to the point: He has chronic high cholesterol problems and has to take prescription medications for it. That tells me something.