Health Benefits of Saturated Fats - AnabolicMinds.com

Health Benefits of Saturated Fats

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    Health Benefits of Saturated Fats


    HEALTH BENEFITS OF SATURATED FATS - they enhance immunity, kill bacteria and viruses, help calcium absorption.... and are excellent for high heat cooking because of their stability

    What if Bad Fat Is Actually Good for You? - Page 1 - MSN Health & Fitness - Cholesterol

    We bodybuilders pride ourselves on our cutting edge knowledge of nutrition, metabolism, and supplementation, yet how many of us still adhere to the antiquated and invalidated cholesterol hypothesis from the 1950's?

    The lipid-heart theory is going to go down as one of the biggest medical frauds in history. It's time to roll back decades worth of public misinformation, and people in the health and fitness community should lead the charge.

    Not only are animal fats perfectly healthy, but they are the most anabolic food sources around. This makes them ideal for bodybuilding.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Shades View Post

    Not only are animal fats perfectly healthy, but they are the most anabolic food sources around. This makes them ideal for bodybuilding.

    mmmm.....fats yummmmy. BTW, thank you for starting this thread. Lets get a dialog going. I for one am thoroughly interested now that I'm on a CKD.

    Here's another interesting, pro-fat articles analyzing the link between fat consumption and positive responses in the treatment of cancer patients:
    Can a High-Fat Diet Beat Cancer?
    http://www.time.com/time/health/arti...662484,00.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Shades View Post
    HEALTH BENEFITS OF SATURATED FATS - they enhance immunity, kill bacteria and viruses, help calcium absorption.... and are excellent for high heat cooking because of their stability

    What if Bad Fat Is Actually Good for You? - Page 1 - MSN Health & Fitness - Cholesterol

    We bodybuilders pride ourselves on our cutting edge knowledge of nutrition, metabolism, and supplementation, yet how many of us still adhere to the antiquated and invalidated cholesterol hypothesis from the 1950's?

    The lipid-heart theory is going to go down as one of the biggest medical frauds in history. It's time to roll back decades worth of public misinformation, and people in the health and fitness community should lead the charge.

    Not only are animal fats perfectly healthy, but they are the most anabolic food sources around. This makes them ideal for bodybuilding.
    So tell me what does your diet look like. I'm intrigued.
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    Yeah, I don't have any links but I've read in the past that lots of the medical studies stating that saturated fats are bad for you didn't distinguish between saturated and trans fats which are really the ones that're bad for you and not the saturated fats themselves.
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    Reading that makes me feel a little better about doing CKD/TKD with X-factor in the future....pass me the virgin coconut oil please
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    Quote Originally Posted by Distilled Water View Post
    Reading that makes me feel a little better about doing CKD/TKD with X-factor in the future....pass me the virgin coconut oil please
    Which reminds me, I need to go to the store to pick some more up. I eat it by the spoon...just let it melt in your mouth. So good.
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    Yeh, good stuff. Btw, I know CKD but what's TKD stand for?
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    yeah thats some of the only sat I use coconut oil.

    Maybe some light mayo in tuna , not much

    maybe some in lean beef

    other than that not much sat fat

    I hear Arnold used to eat mayo sandwiches and say its anabolic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Shades View Post
    Yeh, good stuff. Btw, I know CKD but what's TKD stand for?
    I'm not sure,lol. It is along the same lines as CKD only you you take in carbs around workout time usually less than 100gr total. I also dont think there are re-feeds but if there are they are much mroe restricted.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Shades View Post
    We bodybuilders pride ourselves on our cutting edge knowledge of nutrition, metabolism, and supplementation, yet how many of us still adhere to the antiquated and invalidated cholesterol hypothesis from the 1950's?

    The lipid-heart theory is going to go down as one of the biggest medical frauds in history. It's time to roll back decades worth of public misinformation, and people in the health and fitness community should lead the charge.
    We are often so driven in the pursuit of new information that we buy into each and every new THEORY. Theories are nothing more than educated guesses and frequently they are based on the idea that if some is good then more is better (or vice versa.) Consequently they are often incorrect however due to the difficulties in performing objective studies they go unchallenged for long periods of time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Al Shades View Post
    Not only are animal fats perfectly healthy, but they are the most anabolic food sources around. This makes them ideal for bodybuilding.
    Healthy (in balance)? Probably. Most anabolic and ideal for bodybuilding? That is a tall claim and is no less sensational than those from the anti-fat movement.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrox View Post
    Healthy (in balance)? Probably. Most anabolic and ideal for bodybuilding? That is a tall claim and is no less sensational than those from the anti-fat movement.
    Not really a tall claim when you consider the studies on fat intake and resulting testosterone production:

    Hamalainen E, Adlercreutz H, Puska P, Pietinen P. "Diet and serum sex hormones in healthy men." J Steroid Biochem. 1984 Jan;20(1):459-64. PMID: 6538617.

    The possible effect of dietary fat content and the ratio of polyunsaturated to saturated fatty acids (P/S-ratio) on serum sex hormones was studied in 30 healthy male volunteers. The customary diet of the subjects, which supplied 40% of energy as fat (mainly from animal sources, P/S-ratio 0.15) was replaced for a 6 weeks period by a practically isocaloric experimental diet containing significantly less fat (25% of energy) with a higher P/S-ratio (1.22) and other environmental factors were stabilized. Serum testosterone and 4-androstenedione decreased from 22.7 +/- 1.1 nmol/l to 19.3 +/- 1.2 nmol/l, (SEM, P less than 0.001) and from 4.6 +/- 0.2 nmol/l to 4.3 +/- 0.2 nmol/l (SEM, P less than 0.01), respectively. These changes were paralleled by a reduction in serum free (non-protein bound) testosterone (P less than 0.01) suggesting a possible change in biological activity. During the low fat period a significant negative correlation between serum prolactin and androgens was observed. All the changes in androgen levels were reversible. With the exception of a small but non-significant decrease in serum estradiol-17 beta, the other hormone parameters were practically unaffected by the dietary manipulation. Our results indicate that in men a decrease in dietary fat content and an increase in the degree of unsaturation of fatty acids reduces the serum concentrations of androstenedione, testosterone and free testosterone. The mechanism and importance of this phenomenon is discussed in the light of epidemiological and experimental data.

    Wang C, Catlin DH, Starcevic B, Heber D, Ambler C, Berman N, Lucas G, Leung A, Schramm K, Lee PW, Hull L, Swerdloff RS. "Low Fat High Fiber Diet Decreased Serum and Urine Androgens in Men." J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2005 Mar 1. PMID: 15741266.

    To validate our hypothesis that reduction in dietary fat may result in changes in androgen metabolism, 39 middle-aged white, healthy men (50 to 60 yr) were studied while they were consuming their usual high fat, low fiber diet and after 8 weeks modulation to an isocaloric low fat, high fiber diet. Mean body weight decreased by 1 Kg whereas total caloric intake, energy expenditure and activity index were not changed. After diet modulation, mean serum testosterone (T) concentration fell (P < 0.0001) accompanied by small but significant decreases in serum free testosterone (P = 0.0045), 5 {alpha} dihydrotestosterone (DHT, P = 0.0053), and adrenal androgens (Androstendione, P = 0.0135; DHEA-S, P = 0.0011). Serum estradiol and sex hormone binding globulin showed smaller decreases. Parallel decreases in urinary excretion of some testicular and adrenal androgens were demonstrated. Metabolic clearance rates of T were not changed and production rates of T showed a downward trend while on low fat diet modulation. We conclude that reduction in dietary fat intake (and increase in fiber) results in 12% consistent lowering of circulating androgens levels without changing the clearance.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Distilled Water View Post
    I'm not sure,lol. It is along the same lines as CKD only you you take in carbs around workout time usually less than 100gr total. I also dont think there are re-feeds but if there are they are much mroe restricted.
    SKD = "Standard Ketogenic Diet" (i.e. Atkins)
    Constant and consistent low-carb, high fat, moderate protein intake.

    CKD = "Cyclical Ketogenic Diet"
    Similiar to above, but with the inclusion of a periodized "Carb-up" day, typically occurs every 5-7 days for a span of 24-48 hrs. Based on individuals needs and requirements periodization (time between refeeds) may be shortened or lengthened.

    TKD = "Targeted Ketogenic Diet" or Timed Ketogenic Diet
    Again, similiar to SKD, but carb consumption takes place near training either before, after, or before and after. "Carb-up" refeeds generally do not occur due to higher consumption of carbs on a daily basis to replace lost glycogen; however, some individuals may opt for periodized refeeds as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by beallio View Post
    Not really a tall claim when you consider the studies on fat intake and resulting testosterone production:
    I did not deny that there are no potentially positive aspects to inclusion of saturated fats in one's diet.

    Instead: Define anabolic and how saturated fat is the most anabolic of all food sources. How is it ideal? To the exclusion of all other nutrients?
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    Quote Originally Posted by beallio View Post
    Not really a tall claim when you consider the studies on fat intake and resulting testosterone production:

    Our results indicate that in men a decrease in dietary fat content and an increase in the degree of unsaturation of fatty acids reduces the serum concentrations of androstenedione, testosterone and free testosterone. The mechanism and importance of this phenomenon is discussed in the light of epidemiological and experimental data.

    We conclude that reduction in dietary fat intake (and increase in fiber) results in 12% consistent lowering of circulating androgens levels without changing the clearance.
    Apples and oranges. Low dietary fat intake and high saturated fat intake are 2 different animals.

    Whatever happened to a balanced nutritional approach?

    More is not always better, its just more.
    Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonny21 View Post
    Apples and oranges. Low dietary fat intake and high saturated fat intake are 2 different animals.

    Whatever happened to a balanced nutritional approach?

    More is not always better, its just more.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrox View Post
    Healthy (in balance)? Probably. Most anabolic and ideal for bodybuilding? That is a tall claim and is no less sensational than those from the anti-fat movement.
    Milk. Red Meat. Eggs.

    These are known to be highly anabolic foods for bodybuilding. Do you think it's a coincidence that all of them are high in saturated fat? I don't think so.

    Furthermore:
    Do you think it's a coincidence that steroids, which are hugely anabolic, have cholesterol elevating properties as one of their primary side effects?

    Do you think it's a coincidence that diets which lower cholesterol tend to be vegetarian, and are notoriously bad for gaining or maintaining lean body mass?

    Those are some very strong correllations to pass off as mere coincidences.

    The way I see it, there's pretty much a linear relationship between animal fat consumption and anabolism. I highly doubt that anyone attains a significant level of muscular development with low levels of cholesterol.

    I don't see these claims as sensational.

    Quote Originally Posted by beallio View Post
    TKD = "Targeted Ketogenic Diet" or Timed Ketogenic Diet
    Again, similiar to SKD, but carb consumption takes place near training either before, after, or before and after. "Carb-up" refeeds generally do not occur due to higher consumption of carbs on a daily basis to replace lost glycogen; however, some individuals may opt for periodized refeeds as well.
    Thanks for the clarification. The diet I've been following is pretty much TKD. Although, it's unlikely that I'm ever in ketosis, now that I'm in a caloric surplus and eating carbs every day.

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny21 View Post
    Apples and oranges. Low dietary fat intake and high saturated fat intake are 2 different animals.

    Whatever happened to a balanced nutritional approach?

    More is not always better, its just more.
    So, do you think everybody should eat 33/33/33...just because it's the safest approach on paper? What if the human body requires some things more than others? Since it is made from fats and proteins, why not eat only fats and proteins? What part of the human body is made from carbohydrates? What is the actual mininum requirement for carbs?

    Just because the majority of the population has adopted certain eating habits doesn't mean that they are necessarily correct and have any place in a healthy diet regimen. Would you, today, recommend a "healthy balance" of margarine in people's diets, to offset other sources of fat? Well, why not? Are we more concerned about maintaining the appearance of "balance" or about finding out the optimal source of nutrition for humans? I'm all about the latter. You can have your "balance".

    You're not going to get a balanced approach because the dogma has been unbalanced for more than 50 years. It's been anti-fat the whole way through. Even today, even among people who should really know better, it still persists. Why do bodybuilders eat egg whites instead of whole eggs? Because they're as fat-phobic as your grandma. People deny, deny, deny, but I still see it all the time. Bodybuilders reject the most anabolic food sources around because of a medical myth that's been perpetuated for 50 years. It is time for the pendulum to swing in the opposite direction. Don't expect moderation to emerge from extremism. Expect us to fight fire with fire. We will now embrace fats as strongly as they were rejected by many others for decades. And after we've tried the "high fat" craze for several decades, then maybe we'll give moderation a shot. But probably not, since low-carb seems to be the way to go.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrox View Post
    I did not deny that there are no potentially positive aspects to inclusion of saturated fats in one's diet.

    Instead: Define anabolic and how saturated fat is the most anabolic of all food sources. How is it ideal? To the exclusion of all other nutrients?
    Quote Originally Posted by Al Shades View Post
    Milk. Red Meat. Eggs.

    These are known to be highly anabolic foods for bodybuilding. Do you think it's a coincidence that all of them are high in saturated fat? I don't think so.
    Maltodextrin and fish oil are also highly anabolic. Any food with a net non-zero calorie content can be highly anabolic when consumed in sufficient quantity. What does saturated fat have to do with it? You claimed they were the MOST anabolic food sources...

    Quote Originally Posted by Al Shades View Post
    Furthermore:
    Do you think it's a coincidence that steroids, which are hugely anabolic, have cholesterol elevating properties as one of their primary side effects?
    Which is the cause and which is the effect? Are you saying that the effect 'effects' the cause?

    Quote Originally Posted by Al Shades View Post
    Do you think it's a coincidence that diets which lower cholesterol tend to be vegetarian, and are notoriously bad for gaining or maintaining lean body mass?
    Evidence? How about because vegetarian diets are notoriously lower in energy content and any energy deficit will trigger catabolism? Wasn't Bill Pearl a vegetarian?

    Quote Originally Posted by Al Shades View Post
    Those are some very strong correllations to pass off as mere coincidences.
    They are if you consider that there are alternative explanations such as those that I have listed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Al Shades View Post
    The way I see it, there's pretty much a linear relationship between animal fat consumption and anabolism. I highly doubt that anyone attains a significant level of muscular development with low levels of cholesterol.

    I don't see these claims as sensational.
    Linear relationship? Sorry gotta nitpick on this one. Linear implies a certain mathematical relationship that requires quantitative analysis. You don't have any numbers do you?
    Last edited by Nitrox; 11-15-2007 at 01:04 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Shades View Post
    So, do you think everybody should eat 33/33/33...just because it's the safest approach on paper? What if the human body requires some things more than others? Since it is made from fats and proteins, why not eat only fats and proteins? What part of the human body is made from carbohydrates? What is the actual mininum requirement for carbs?
    Since anabolism requires energy and carbs are a source of energy, they can be used to build all parts of the human body. They can also be converted to fat and stored as adipose tissue.

    I did some quick calculations (youre welcome to check them) and human breast milk is about 5% protein, 53% fat, and 42% carbohydrate. No we're not babies, but it makes for good debate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Al Shades View Post
    Just because the majority of the population has adopted certain eating habits doesn't mean that they are necessarily correct and have any place in a healthy diet regimen. Would you, today, recommend a "healthy balance" of margarine in people's diets, to offset other sources of fat? Well, why not? Are we more concerned about maintaining the appearance of "balance" or about finding out the optimal source of nutrition for humans? I'm all about the latter. You can have your "balance".
    No they are necessarily correct but neither is yours. Determining the 'correct' nutrient intake (if there is one) is, in practicality, impossible with current knowledge and technology.

    Quote Originally Posted by Al Shades View Post
    You're not going to get a balanced approach because the dogma has been unbalanced for more than 50 years. It's been anti-fat the whole way through. Even today, even among people who should really know better, it still persists. Why do bodybuilders eat egg whites instead of whole eggs? Because they're as fat-phobic as your grandma. People deny, deny, deny, but I still see it all the time. Bodybuilders reject the most anabolic food sources around because of a medical myth that's been perpetuated for 50 years. It is time for the pendulum to swing in the opposite direction. Don't expect moderation to emerge from extremism. Expect us to fight fire with fire. We will now embrace fats as strongly as they were rejected by many others for decades. And after we've tried the "high fat" craze for several decades, then maybe we'll give moderation a shot. But probably not, since low-carb seems to be the way to go.
    Now here is what it really comes down to. You have a serious emotional attachment to your argument. If you can make a case by presenting ALL the facts and arguments, objectively weighing them out, and identifying support for your position then I will be more than happy to give you credit. However, fanning flames of a pro fat crusade is hardly the way to gain any scientific credibility - assuming that you would want any.
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    Nitrox, I believe Al Shades is speaking in terms of relatives when he says "most". Of course the majority of food sources may be anabolic. Anabolic, by definition, is the process of building tissue from simpler molecules.

    You make some key points and counterarguments, but similiar to your objections to Al Shades reasoning, you do not supply statistics nor research to back up your claims. Correlation does not imply causation. For every anecdotal example we may post, I have no doubt you could post similiar examples to support your belief in carbs.

    If you are going to be critical of Al Shades not providing sufficient sources of information, and/or supporting quantative analyses, please post your sources and statistics. Otherwise, you run the risk of hypocrisy. If such data is available to support your claims and you make it known to the board, I for one would be highly interested.

    The human body is a wonderfully complex mechanism, and I believe we are only scraping the tip of the iceberg of understanding its underlying functions and processes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrox View Post
    I did some quick calculations (youre welcome to check them) and human breast milk is about 5% protein, 53% fat, and 42% carbohydrate. No we're not babies, but it makes for good debate.
    If I'm not mistaken, the milk of carnivores in the animal kingdom also contain carbohydrates, yet the majority of these animals (let's use a lion for example) subsist on the flesh of other animals. What are the primary macronutrients of their food source, flesh, contain? Fat and protein. What does this simple example highlight? Carbs may be necessary when young, but past a certain stage in development may no longer be necessary.

    Of course how to do explain herbivores who subsist primarily on vegetation....fat and protein aren't needed past a certain stage in development?
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    Now that you say that cholesterol levels are an indicator of anabolism, I have a real life example. A friend of mine who is 19 years old, the most shredded and built guy I know, trains low intensity, 3-4 days a week. Doesn't really try all that much, takes no supps, not even protein. He is probably 200+lbs at 5"10 and about 7% naturally. He is not an ecto, he was never skinny. He is the purest meso I have seen. Last year we convinced him to join a amateur bodybuilding competition and he won. Keep in mind, no supps and he doesn't take his training as seriously as "we" do. Now getting to the point: He has chronic high cholesterol problems and has to take prescription medications for it. That tells me something.
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    Quote Originally Posted by beallio View Post
    You make some key points and counterarguments, but similiar to your objections to Al Shades reasoning, you do not supply statistics nor research to back up your claims. Correlation does not imply causation. For every anecdotal example we may post, I have no doubt you could post similiar examples to support your belief in carbs.

    If you are going to be critical of Al Shades not providing sufficient sources of information, and/or supporting quantative analyses, please post your sources and statistics. Otherwise, you run the risk of hypocrisy. If such data is available to support your claims and you make it known to the board, I for one would be highly interested.

    The human body is a wonderfully complex mechanism, and I believe we are only scraping the tip of the iceberg of understanding its underlying functions and processes.
    I don't need to provide any sources or statistics because unlike Al, I am not claiming that any counter argument holds. What I am trying to point out is that Al's logic is not any less flawed than the information that he is claiming to be fraudulent.

    Like you said, the body is wonderfully complex (and adaptable). I think it is one thing to put out a hypothesis for objective discussion but it is quite another to use a few loosely made connections to invalidate one methodology and justify another.
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    Quote Originally Posted by beallio View Post
    If I'm not mistaken, the milk of carnivores in the animal kingdom also contain carbohydrates, yet the majority of these animals (let's use a lion for example) subsist on the flesh of other animals. What are the primary macronutrients of their food source, flesh, contain? Fat and protein. What does this simple example highlight? Carbs may be necessary when young, but past a certain stage in development may no longer be necessary.

    Of course how to do explain herbivores who subsist primarily on vegetation....fat and protein aren't needed past a certain stage in development?
    That simple example highlights that there is frequently some other example or correlation that can be presented in such a way to support a counter argument. No more no less.

    This industry is full of misinformation, be it deliberate or just bad logic. There is a whole other thread: Gr-Easy EJL's fish oil megadosing ala Charles Poliquin thread about the supposed anabolic benefits of fish oil. Fish oil is a polyunsaturate no? Both can't be the best... so which is it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrox View Post
    Maltodextrin and fish oil are also highly anabolic. Any food with a net non-zero calorie content can be highly anabolic when consumed in sufficient quantity. What does saturated fat have to do with it? You claimed they were the MOST anabolic food sources...
    Well, high-GI carbs are certainly anabolic in that they're highly lipogenic. I'll give you that. But that's not the type of anabolism that anyone desires to attain. For the purpose of this discussion, anabolism is synonymous with muscle building.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrox View Post
    Which is the cause and which is the effect? Are you saying that the effect 'effects' the cause?
    I'm not saying that. Does it even matter? The take-away point is that if you want to obtain a muscular physique, you better be prepared to have elevated cholesterol levels. Whether elevated cholesterol levels result in hypertrophy, or result from it, is not fully determinable, but this does not affect the veracity of my argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrox View Post
    Evidence? How about because vegetarian diets are notoriously lower in energy content and any energy deficit will trigger catabolism? Wasn't Bill Pearl a vegetarian?
    I don't know about Bill Pearl. Strict "vegetarian" diets may be associated with low caloric consumption, but only because the people who adopt them tend to subscribe to the nutritional ideology surrounding hypocaloric diets (e.g. longevity benefits and such). Low energy content is not an inherent attribute of these diets. More broadly speaking, diets that are "nearly-vegetarian" (i.e., high in carbs, low in protein/fat, the way that most American women eat) are far from being hypocaloric. Far more often, they are hypercaloric, since carbs have been shown to "stimulate appetite" (which is another way of saying that they're highly addictive). It is a readily-observable fact that nobody gets addicted to fat and protein-containing foods in the same way that so many are addicted to carbs. Nobody binges on steak or cheese the way that people binge on pasta or cake.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrox View Post
    They are if you consider that there are alternative explanations such as those that I have listed.
    I'm afraid you haven't done much to rebuke them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrox View Post
    Linear relationship? Sorry gotta nitpick on this one. Linear implies a certain mathematical relationship that requires quantitative analysis. You don't have any numbers do you?
    Numbers are not necessary to describe the nature of a mathematical relationship. If I tell you to map y=x on a graph, I have just asked you to draw a linear relationship, without using any numbers. Nitpicking is welcome.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrox View Post
    I did some quick calculations (youre welcome to check them) and human breast milk is about 5% protein, 53% fat, and 42% carbohydrate. No we're not babies, but it makes for good debate.
    Well, I've read the following:

    Mother’s milk contains over 50% of its calories as fat, much of it saturated fat, and children need these kinds of fats throughout their growing years.
    The infant needs foods with a similar percentage of protein and fats as was available in the mother's breast milk which is more than 50% fats and 25% protein.
    Wikipedia claims, "0.8% to 0.9% protein, 3% to 5% fat, 6.9% to 7.2% carbohydrates and 0.2% ash", which doesn't add up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrox View Post
    No they are necessarily correct but neither is yours. Determining the 'correct' nutrient intake (if there is one) is, in practicality, impossible with current knowledge and technology.
    It's no more impossible than measuring statistics and medical barometrics. The "correct" diet is the one that works the best for the greatest number of people. It's obvious that the mainstream high carb diet ISN'T working well for many people, so it's time to discount that and move on. By the same token, high-fat diets worked just great for many indigenous populations, as evidenced by their vitality, documented by scientific pioneers such as Weston Price.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrox View Post
    Now here is what it really comes down to. You have a serious emotional attachment to your argument. If you can make a case by presenting ALL the facts and arguments, objectively weighing them out, and identifying support for your position then I will be more than happy to give you credit. However, fanning flames of a pro fat crusade is hardly the way to gain any scientific credibility - assuming that you would want any.
    If I have an emotional attachment to my argument, it is absolutely no greater than anybody else's attachment to theirs. That's the point. Emotions are very much a part of this. Whenever you're dealing with mass propaganda, your data is going to be very much influenced by the prevailing bias of the establishment. I can't ignore that reality and pretend that this whole debate is taking place in a clean, sterile and scientific environment. It isn't. The battlefield is hot and dirty. The establishment is fighting hard and shedding blood to maintain it's high-carb dogma.

    My goal is to sway others to my viewpoint. I believe that my viewpoint is correct and that this is demonstrable through objective evidence. But there are other ways of convincing people besides the mere presentation of such evidence. Scare tactics, not facts, were used by the medical establishment to get people to believe what they do today. Therefore, scare tactics will also be employed, to some extent, in their re-education. It's the way the game is played.

    As I said, fight fire with fire. If I see anti-fat propaganda, and I see it all the time, I will counter it with pro-fat "propaganda" (which is completely true, as far as I'm concerned). Once the flames from both sides cancel each other out, then a civil, public discourse can be held.

    By the way, I also wanted to mention that fish oil does, in fact, contain saturated fat. I've read Poliquin's theories and I've got a high opinion of him. Don't have any personal experience with mega-dosing fish oil. But I can tell you, anecdotally, that plant fats simply aren't anabolic (just like plant proteins). You need ANIMAL fats and ANIMAL proteins. They are the real deal. Absolutely nobody ever got huge from eating lots of nuts and soy protein. This is pretty much self-evident. I am tired of people dancing around the issue and skirting the FACT that animal fats are what's responsible for anabolism...not peanut butter. I am tired of reading the terms "healthy fat" and "good fat", followed by references to the afore-mentioned vegetarian foods, which nobody ever gained a pound of muscle from. Give me a break, get real...
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    To follow up on Al Shades post above, the fish oil I have sitting in front of me at my office contains 1 gram of fat per pill, half of that being saturated. In mass quantities, as Pollequin promotes, one could consume a considerably amount of saturated fat. (Following responsible disclosures practices, let me state I'm currently following Pollequin's advice re the consumption of high quanities of fish oil).
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    When I first started researching about arachidonic acid, this is where I saw the population is misinformed, and even a lot of health enthusiasts are lead in the wrong way.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjohn View Post
    When I first started researching about arachidonic acid, this is where I saw the population is misinformed, and even a lot of health enthusiasts are lead in the wrong way.
    Could you elaborate on this please? Ie, what did your research show, and what information are we misinformed about?

    I'm curious because I hold off on X-Factor because I have some disk/nerve/joint issues that could get even more aggravated with something that supposedly increases inflamation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by saludable24 View Post
    Could you elaborate on this please? Ie, what did your research show, and what information are we misinformed about?

    I'm curious because I hold off on X-Factor because I have some disk/nerve/joint issues that could get even more aggravated with something that supposedly increases inflamation.
    Well, saturated fats are good for you, most people don't beleive so. Why do you think margarine sells? "Butter is full of saturated fats..." Pfffttt HEY margarine is plastic you fool!

    Okay, well, elaborate on what? I can write 10 pages.

    I would skip the X Factor though if you have these issues.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjohn View Post
    Well, saturated fats are good for you, most people don't beleive so. Why do you think margarine sells? "Butter is full of saturated fats..." Pfffttt HEY margarine is plastic you fool!

    Okay, well, elaborate on what? I can write 10 pages.

    I would skip the X Factor though if you have these issues.
    Lol, I'll skip it then. Maybe sometime in the furture if these things get reolved with help from my chiropractor and cissus I will try it.

    I like my sat-fats in moderation: meat, cheese, milk, yummie, yummie, yummie. I've never believed one shouldn't have them. I notice I feel good after eating those foods, but if I eat too much I get lethargic for the next 2 hrs.

    I'm just a science geek really. Anything that I don't know or understand interests me. I've never really known what the sat-fats do for us is all. I've read all about the Omega EFA's, but sat fat is in the daily human nutritional requirements too AFIAK. I just don't know why. And if you have 10 pages I'll read 10 pages
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    Quote Originally Posted by saludable24 View Post
    Lol, I'll skip it then. Maybe sometime in the furture if these things get reolved with help from my chiropractor and cissus I will try it.

    I like my sat-fats in moderation: meat, cheese, milk, yummie, yummie, yummie. I've never believed one shouldn't have them. I notice I feel good after eating those foods, but if I eat too much I get lethargic for the next 2 hrs.

    I'm just a science geek really. Anything that I don't know or understand interests me. I've never really known what the sat-fats do for us is all. I've read all about the Omega EFA's, but sat fat is in the daily human nutritional requirements too AFIAK. I just don't know why. And if you have 10 pages I'll read 10 pages

    I'll link you to something, gimme a sec.

    Here


    The TRUTH behind Arachidonic Acid aka X-Factor!
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    Didn't mean to highjack!! Just an interesting read there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjohn View Post
    Didn't mean to highjack!! Just an interesting read there.
    Don't think it's highjacking when it's related content
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    This is a great thread! About 33% of my daily fat intake comes from good old anabolic saturated fats. And if you're on a low carb diet and your body uses fat as its main fuel source you will probably see improved lipids on a diet high in saturated fat, contrary to popular belief. I think I already saw this mentioned but saturated fat is a cholesterol that is very close to the structure of testosterone, and when large amounts are eaten it is highly available for your body to make testosterone with. On top of that, I just feel damn good and energized after eating steaks, ground beef, eggs, or a shake/coffee loaded with heavy whipping cream.
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    Quote Originally Posted by saludable24 View Post
    I've never really known what the sat-fats do for us is all. I've read all about the Omega EFA's, but sat fat is in the daily human nutritional requirements too AFIAK. I just don't know why. And if you have 10 pages I'll read 10 pages
    I'll get you some stuff to read, hold on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Al Shades View Post
    I'll get you some stuff to read, hold on.
    Sweet! This is why I love this forum, so many knowlegable people who are willing to share without looking down on other who don't know.
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    This is a very interesting read that I found posted by DH on another forum:

    A little something I found lurking in my documents. From Dr. Steven Joyal:
    ------
    "So what about saturated fats ? How does myristic, palmitic, or stearic acid affect lipid metabolism ? Are all saturated fats bad for us or increase total cholesterol and/or LDL levels?

    Well, there's evidence to suggest that stearic acid is neutral compared to both myristic and palmitic acid in terms of elevating cholesterol; e.g., serum total, esterified and LDL cholesterol were all significantly lower depending on which of these fatty acids are ingested. There are a number of interesting studies in the literature that support this data. One such study supplemented subjects' diets with synthetic forms of different saturated fatty acids to determine the effects on serum cholesterol (Snook JT; Park S; Williams G; Tsai Y-H; Lee N. Effect of synthetic triglycerides of myristic, palmitic, and stearic acid on serum lipoprotein metabolism. Eur J Clin Nutr 1999 Aug;53(8):597-605)

    In fact, stearic acid is poorly incorporated into VLDL as compared to palmitic or myristic acid(s), and is even poorly incorporated as compared to oleic acid ! (Pai T; Yeh YY.
    Stearic acid modifies very low density lipoprotein lipid composition and particle size differently from shorter-chain saturated fatty acids in cultured rat hepatocytes. Lipids 1997 Feb;32(2))

    The bottom line : the major cholesterol-raising saturated fatty acid in the diet is palmitic acid, and, in fact, there is evidence to suggest that stearic acid is quickly converted into a mono-unsaturated fatty acid in vivo, and thus, the real culprit in terms of saturated fatty acids and their respective negative effects on cholesterol are due to
    palmitic acid, and not stearic acid.(Grundy SM, Denke MA. Dietary influences on serum lipids and lipoproteins. J Lipid Res 1990 Jul;31(7):1149-72)

    [Editors Note: Guess which fat the body produces from excess carbohydrates? If you guessed palmitate, you go to the head of the class! The reason why the high carb low fat studies above found negative blood lipid changes from higher carb intakes as opposed to lower carb moderate fat intakes?]

    In addition, the media has blitzed the public at large about the "evils" of saturated fats in the diet . However, there is epidemiological evidence to support that if saturated fats were significantly reduced from the diet (8-10% saturated fat diet), this change would only increase life expectancy by several months! (Grover SA, et al. Life expectancy following dietary modification or smoking cessation. Estimating the benefits of a prudent lifestyle. Arch Intern Med. 1994 Aug 8;154(15):1697-704). Considering how vilified the
    media and other groups have made saturated fats over the past few decades, this is not very impressive to say the least.

    So, what does it all mean ?

    Don't fall for the hype from the mega-carb gurus who view all fats as an evil enemy sure to ruin your health. It is simply not true and is far more complex than the high carb low fat gurus want us to believe."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Distilled Water View Post
    Reading that makes me feel a little better about doing CKD/TKD with X-factor in the future....pass me the virgin coconut oil please
    I have just been reading about VCO. Where do y'all get yours and do you get a good price?
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    Any good health food store or Whole Foods / Trader Joe's / Sprouts will have extra virgin coconut oil It's like $8-10 for like 12 oz
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    I get it at Loblaws
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjohn View Post
    I get it at Loblaws
    Actually I read that there is no such thing as Extra virgin coconut oil. Its kind of like real life, its either virgin or its not. Lol. Its because Coconut oil doesnt have the additional filtering processes that olive oil has.
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