People who maintain below 10%

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    People who maintain below 10%


    What diet do you guys find most effective for getting below 10% and holding that bodyfat? The reason I ask people who are at 10 or below is that i believe almost any diet can get you to lean up if you are 12+ % bodyfat.. getting below that point seems to be fairly hard for most (including myself)

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    i find that the CKD or some variation works well for getting below 10%.

    i've had good success with keeping a low carb diet with a carb load/refeed day once or twice per week - depending on how i feel.
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    My opinion on under 10% bf would be like Hank said, carb intake.

    Then of course genetics, metabolism, cardio routine, etc.
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    i am currently at 10% and trying to cut down to 7%.

    i have found that TKD (carbs consumed only pre workout and a banana or fruit with post workout shake)

    i have not really included carb up days yet...but i feel like 1 carb up day per week might help...or might not...still not sure.

    i have also switched my cardio to after i lift right after i consume my post workout shake...HIIT for about 15-20...mod. intensity for 15-20 4x per week...seems to be working well
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmbwhiteguy View Post
    i am currently at 10% and trying to cut down to 7%.

    i have found that TKD (carbs consumed only pre workout and a banana or fruit with post workout shake)

    i have not really included carb up days yet...but i feel like 1 carb up day per week might help...or might not...still not sure.

    i have also switched my cardio to after i lift right after i consume my post workout shake...HIIT for about 15-20...mod. intensity for 15-20 4x per week...seems to be working well
    If you don't mind me asking, what are you stats? Also, what body type are you ecto, meso, endo?
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    i cant even eat a real meal without carbs.....Carbs are a must. I dont know how people eat certain foods without a staple carb to eat with it...
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    Quote Originally Posted by pistonpump View Post
    i cant even eat a real meal without carbs.....Carbs are a must. I dont know how people eat certain foods without a staple carb to eat with it...
    Because thy're not a sissy b i t c h like yourself,haha . Yea It's rough for me too, but if I can do it for a whole week it gets alot easier IMO. I think CKD would be easier because of the re-feed once a week. That way you can get 1 or 2 **** meals in to hold you over. Atleast this is my thought process, thats why Im gonna start CKD the end of december and try to stick to that and TKD for a few years.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Distilled Water View Post
    Because thy're not a sissy b i t c h like yourself,haha . Yea It's rough for me too, but if I can do it for a whole week it gets alot easier IMO. I think CKD would be easier because of the re-feed once a week. That way you can get 1 or 2 **** meals in to hold you over. Atleast this is my thought process, thats why Im gonna start CKD the end of december and try to stick to that and TKD for a few years.
    IMO you need carbs pre workout and post. And then 1 refeed day so to speak sounds good. Maybe eat vegetables like peppers, and brocolli for your "carbs" but don't really count.
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    There is a serious misconceptrion that you need to restrict carbs from your diet to get to single digit bf. Plenty of guys (look at sporto, Layne Norton, Beast) are less than 10% and eat more carbs in one meal than I eat all day.

    It is about metabolism and set point. Some people have lower set points than others. Restricting carbs is not the magic bullet.
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    It's all about genetics basically.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CryingEmo View Post
    It's all about genetics basically.
    thats a misconception.
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    Quote Originally Posted by B5150 View Post
    There is a serious misconceptrion that you need to restrict carbs from your diet to get to single digit bf. Plenty of guys (look at sporto, Layne Norton, Beast) are less than 10% and eat more carbs in one meal than I eat all day.

    It is about metabolism and set point. Some people have lower set points than others. Restricting carbs is not the magic bullet.
    I agree. Everyone is different. I know a couple of my buddies that eat boat loads of carbs and stay at single digit bf%. Me, on the other hand, not the case.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CryingEmo View Post
    It's all about genetics basically.
    It's all about commitment and hard-work, basically.
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    1.consistency
    2.slowly lowering cals and carbs
    3.give yourself enough time to meet your goals
    4.cardio on a regular basis
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    Quote Originally Posted by PumpingIron View Post
    thats a misconception.
    Agreed. You can overcome your genetic limits with extreme sacrifice and dedication. That is the difference between the beginner/novice and the elite.

    For me the desired discipline to be below my set point often expires before I achieve it. I believe I could get there (again, I teetered at 9-10% for a few minutes one summer), but a 42yo endo is going to need a greater cost to benefit ratio than because I can.
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    Quote Originally Posted by B5150 View Post
    Agreed. You can overcome your genetic limits with extreme sacrifice and dedication. That is the difference between the beginner/novice and the elite.

    For me the desired discipline to be below my set point often expires before I achieve it. I believe I could get there (again, I teetered at 9-10% for a few minutes one summer), but a 42yo endo is going to need a greater cost to benefit ratio than because I can.
    nice post

    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to B5150 again.
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    good points made above.

    seems to me that diet is really trial and error to find what works best for you and your body type.

    as stated, some like sporto can keep carbs high and get sub 10%.
    however, i believe that most are not so genetically gifted, and for them this method will not be as effective.

    i know for me personally, when i keep carb intake higher and just reduce total calories in a cut i lose a lot of muscle and still hang on to the bodyfat.

    on a ckd type diet i seem better able to retain muscle and lose the stubborn fat needed to drop below 10%.
    btw. those refeed days do help you from going crazy!
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    Not sure if I'm below 10% or not, but 3 things changed the most when I seemed to recomp better this summer and somewhat hold on to it:

    1. big conscious effort to reduce stress in every aspect of my life
    2. i did more cardio
    3. I added in more fiber in the form of fiber cereal

    My diet has somewhat been the same. I honestly have no food plan/log still. I just try to eat smart. I know, I know - bad boy. I used to keep a diet log...but it's stressful, lol. I need to get a lot of other things in my life straightened out before I do a food log again.
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    I am planing to try a low carb diet soon.. I have always used a moderate carb/low fat approach, but think i am going to give "the anabolic diet" a try.

    I have never really tried a low carb diet, so i am pretty interested too see how my body will react to it.
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    i have fluctuated from 6%-9% the past two years, depending on the goal (a little higher if i am trying to put on mass, lower if I am cutting down obviously) however, i dont claim to be "big" or anything, as I am 6'1 at 180

    what i have done to stay at that - i havent gone "low" carb, i just eat sensibly. ive tried keto, CKD, TKD, the cut diet, etc etc. and what i found what works best for me is a combination, and i usually get to about 150-200g of carbs before the bloat sets in, so i try to keep it under that, depending on my training intensity for the day.

    i usually have cheat meat w/the GF when we go out to dinner (but it is still a healthy cheat)

    cardio everyday, training 5 days out of 7, etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaymdubbs View Post
    i have fluctuated from 6%-9% the past two years, depending on the goal (a little higher if i am trying to put on mass, lower if I am cutting down obviously) however, i dont claim to be "big" or anything, as I am 6'1 at 180

    what i have done to stay at that - i havent gone "low" carb, i just eat sensibly. ive tried keto, CKD, TKD, the cut diet, etc etc. and what i found what works best for me is a combination, and i usually get to about 150-200g of carbs before the bloat sets in, so i try to keep it under that, depending on my training intensity for the day.

    i usually have cheat meat w/the GF when we go out to dinner (but it is still a healthy cheat)

    cardio everyday, training 5 days out of 7, etc.
    Do you try to keep your carbs to mornings and pre/post workout, or evenly space them throughout the day?
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    Quote Originally Posted by t-bone2 View Post
    It's all about commitment and hard-work, basically.
    For some yeah. I have a ton of friends who look like BB'ers and are lazy with no hardwork or commitment. I work 100 times harder with way less results. Those who disagree are probably born with genetics and can achieve results with minimal effort but which they percieve as "hard."
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    Quote Originally Posted by PumpingIron View Post
    thats a misconception.
    No it's not. You have genetics. You're basically saying the better you look the harder you work. **** that, there are way too many exceptions to the rule. Anyways you are younger than me and granted are further along with your physique. That doesn't mean you worked harder or are more intelligent than I.
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    Quote Originally Posted by B5150 View Post
    There is a serious misconceptrion that you need to restrict carbs from your diet to get to single digit bf. Plenty of guys (look at sporto, Layne Norton, Beast) are less than 10% and eat more carbs in one meal than I eat all day.

    It is about metabolism and set point. Some people have lower set points than others. Restricting carbs is not the magic bullet.
    Very well put. People always think there's so special "trick" involved, but the reality of it is there's about a million ways to get from point A to point B. The best advice is to go "bushwhacking" until you find a trail you feel comfortable walking.
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingMeso View Post
    If you don't mind me asking, what are you stats? Also, what body type are you ecto, meso, endo?


    i am def. an ecto. 5'11 165lb
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmbwhiteguy View Post
    i am def. an ecto. 5'11 165lb
    and i know that i am going to get a ton of "just eat, you only weight 165lbs...blah blah blah"

    well what good is weighing 165lb if i don't have a cut stomach yet. i want to reach that 7% mark, then bulk up. i'm strong for my size, so gaining muscle mass has never been hard for me. i place myself in the ecto category cause it seems to fit best
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    BUt you risk falling into the clasic skinny fat guy when you do things like that. Far too long under your setpoint and you get catabolic and your body will fight tooth and nail to keep the fat and relinquish the LBM. You would do well to learn methods that are less catabolic than startvation. LBM is thermogenic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CryingEmo View Post
    No it's not. You have genetics. You're basically saying the better you look the harder you work. **** that, there are way too many exceptions to the rule. Anyways you are younger than me and granted are further along with your physique. That doesn't mean you worked harder or are more intelligent than I.
    Your statements are coming off eugenicistic. While genetics play a role in determining body composition, your posts in this thread are alluding to genetics being the ONLY factor, and that sounds like a lazy attempt to ostracize what others are unable to acheive. (Kinda like how the media views steriod use.) If genetics were the only factor, PI could eat jelly donuts day in and day out, and achieve the same results. Genetics aren't going to determine what your body composition is, they're going to determine how you maintain it.

    You also mention "working harder". THAT'S a HUGE misconception. It's not about how hard your work, it's about how RIGHT you work. It's too often I'll hear someone complaining about how they spend so many hours in the gym (per day) and have nothing to show for it. They might be working harder, but they're not working "right" and they're paying the consequences for it.

    end rant.
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    Quote Originally Posted by B5150 View Post
    BUt you risk falling into the clasic skinny fat guy when you do things like that. Far too long under your setpoint and you get catabolic and your body will fight tooth and nail to keep the fat and relinquish the LBM. You would do well to learn methods that are less catabolic than startvation. LBM is thermogenic.
    Word. It seems the bigger I get, the easier it is to maintain.

    I think this also has to do with increasing "acceptable" calorie ranges/ratios. What I mean by acceptable is this:
    Two people eat 6 meals per day, but have different maintenance levels.

    Dude #1: 3600 kcal/day
    Dude #2: 2400 kcal/day (these are divisible by 6 for convenience's sake)

    If either dude slips, and has a candy bar after lunch, there's a different caloric ratio involved. We'll say it's a 180kcal Snicker's bar.

    For Dude #1, that's 5% above daily quota, and 30% above average mealtime intake.
    For Dude #2, that's 7.5% above daily quota, and 45% above average mealtime intake.

    Comparing the two dudes, we see that having a little slip up is 1/3 less significant for Dude #1 than it was for Dude#2.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thesinner View Post
    Your statements are coming off eugenicistic. While genetics play a role in determining body composition, your posts in this thread are alluding to genetics being the ONLY factor, and that sounds like a lazy attempt to ostracize what others are unable to acheive. (Kinda like how the media views steriod use.) If genetics were the only factor, PI could eat jelly donuts day in and day out, and achieve the same results. Genetics aren't going to determine what your body composition is, they're going to determine how you maintain it.

    You also mention "working harder". THAT'S a HUGE misconception. It's not about how hard your work, it's about how RIGHT you work. It's too often I'll hear someone complaining about how they spend so many hours in the gym (per day) and have nothing to show for it. They might be working harder, but they're not working "right" and they're paying the consequences for it.

    end rant.
    thesinner
    I agree with what you are saying, but that's why there are 3 body type classifications, endo, meso, ecto. Meso's are naturally genetically gifted. I really don't think they know how hard it is for people with other body types, so when they are consistent with diet for 1 week, it's like they just completed the tour de france. I'm not attempting to belittle anyone on these forums. I repect everyone on these forums, my rant is more geared towards my friends who eat **** and hang around 8% bodyfat, and barely lift, and can almost hang with me in the weight room. These people are then perceived to be "experts" because of their superior genetics, when it couldn't be further from the truth.

    I know the whole train smarter not harder methodology. That doesn't mean smart is easier, which is how you are conveying that notion. Smarter is also subjective. Is it smarter for you to learn about proper nutrition which will take alot longer to achieve your goals, or is it smarter for you to take shortcuts. Is faster smarter? Very subjective... but I do know doing something correctly requires discipline and hardwork, and there is no "smart" way around that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CryingEmo View Post
    For some yeah. I have a ton of friends who look like BB'ers and are lazy with no hardwork or commitment. I work 100 times harder with way less results. Those who disagree are probably born with genetics and can achieve results with minimal effort but which they percieve as "hard."
    Yeah, and I roomed with a guy in college who hardly ever studied and gradutate Summa. I had to work 100 times harder with less results.

    Genetically, life deals us all a different hand, but it is the commitment and hard-work that leads to success in the areas where we are less gifted.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CryingEmo View Post
    I agree with what you are saying, but that's why there are 3 body type classifications, endo, meso, ecto. Meso's are naturally genetically gifted. I really don't think they know how hard it is for people with other body types, so when they are consistent with diet for 1 week, it's like they just completed the tour de france. I'm not attempting to belittle anyone on these forums. I repect everyone on these forums, my rant is more geared towards my friends who eat **** and hang around 8% bodyfat, and barely lift, and can almost hang with me in the weight room. These people are then perceived to be "experts" because of their superior genetics, when it couldn't be further from the truth.

    I know the whole train smarter not harder methodology. That doesn't mean smart is easier, which is how you are conveying that notion. Smarter is also subjective. Is it smarter for you to learn about proper nutrition which will take alot longer to achieve your goals, or is it smarter for you to take shortcuts. Is faster smarter? Very subjective... but I do know doing something correctly requires discipline and hardwork, and there is no "smart" way around that.
    I gotta agree for the most part, genetics play a HUGE role..

    One of my best friends stays at about 9-10% 200lbs, eats WHATEVER the hell he wants. Never has stuck to any regimented eating plan, Doesn't even eat all that much, his diet is mostly junkfood, with sporadic meals here and there.

    Trains just as sporadicly, talks on his cell, talks to people in the gym. Doesn't keep any sort of log book, just goes in uses more or less the same weight everytime, with little to no progress there. Will miss training for weeks at a time.

    NEVER does cardio.

    And to take it even FURTHER.. I hear him ***** about his genetics to me, because his training partner, and another friend of ours who happens to be black, is like 240 8-9%, NEVER touched anything pro-hormone, or AAS wise. BUT he eats decent, still not great, but MUCH better, and trains like an animal. I always tell my boy, he could be that if he just got regimented about his diet/training.

    SO IMO genetics play a big role, people with good genetics, can take a half assed approach and get the same, if not better results, then people with crap genetics busting their ass. OR the gifted person can put in the same amount of effort, and dedication, and far exceed the lesser person.
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    Quote Originally Posted by B5150 View Post
    There is a serious misconceptrion that you need to restrict carbs from your diet to get to single digit bf. Plenty of guys (look at sporto, Layne Norton, Beast) are less than 10% and eat more carbs in one meal than I eat all day.

    It is about metabolism and set point. Some people have lower set points than others. Restricting carbs is not the magic bullet.

    Bingo. As with the original poster, getting down to 10-14% or thereabouts can be done with anything non-retarded, even with poor genetics (the very poor genetically gifted may have to work slightly harder, but such is life).

    Getting below and maintaining beyond your genetically given setpoint has many variables to it and you need to find the best approach for you. Whether it's low carb/ iso caloric, high carb, etc...you need to find the right balance. There are several things physiologically that point you in the right direction on which approach is optimal, so if you pay attention to these, it can sharpen your learning curve.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sporto View Post
    There are several things physiologically that point you in the right direction on which approach is optimal, so if you pay attention to these, it can sharpen your learning curve.

    Sporto
    I know Layne (not personally but in cyber) and have followed (more like watched) him and Derrek (Beast) for a long time now. I remember on your video with Layne you discussed some things about your nutrition profile regarding carbs. I don't recall the detail but I know you guys discussed it.

    I know that physiology plays a huge part in how we process nutrients as well as our setpoint. How have you and or others (Layne and his clients) been able to determine what is ideal nutrition for your phenotype?

    I know there is some science behind phenotype dieting but am unsure, without the help of a physiologist, to determine my true physiology and or phenotype. I as surely an endo but (but who knows, may lean to meso somewhat too) but how does one know for sure?

    Obviously starving myself or running myself to death on a treadmill is not the answer.

    Just curious.
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    Quote Originally Posted by B5150 View Post
    I know Layne (not personally but in cyber) and have followed (more like watched) him and Derrek (Beast) for a long time now. I remember on your video with Layne you discussed some things about your nutrition profile regarding carbs. I don't recall the detail but I know you guys discussed it.

    I know that physiology plays a huge part in how we process nutrients as well as our setpoint. How have you and or others (Layne and his clients) been able to determine what is ideal nutrition for your phenotype?

    I know there is some science behind phenotype dieting but am unsure, without the help of a physiologist, to determine my true physiology and or phenotype. I as surely an endo but (but who knows, may lean to meso somewhat too) but how does one know for sure?

    Obviously starving myself or running myself to death on a treadmill is not the answer.

    Just curious.
    We very briefly touched on this, but you are right...there are several things to take into consideration (and not all physiological either) when setting up the most optimal diet for someone.

    There are some things just within our own bodies that sort of "point" to the right direction for us. For instance, there is a fairly strong correlation between the "endo" phenotype and those particular people having better mood and energy on low carb/ketogenic diets - obvisouly because of the role insulin is playing within their bodies. That, to me, is an obvious sign right there. There needs to be a low carb/ketogenic approach to their dieting methods for cutting/maintaining/bulking. Cutting would involve more refeeds (think CKD, TKD, etc...), maintaining and bulking might be something more along the lines of low carb or iso-caloric. The point being, that you would NOT put someone like this on moderate to high carb approach. They will feel like crap all the time, their energy levels will be a roller coaster with lots of crashes, and they will ultimately just end up quitting.

    Take me for instance. I'm extremely insulin sensitive (obvisouly if you've seen my journal and saw how high my carbs were even 1 week out from contest). But, in years past I tried the low carb approach. I was downright miserable. Now? I'm a little lethargic at times just from low calories, but I have excellent mood and energy most of the time. That tells me I'm using the more optimal approach for my body. Incidentally, my body before was telling me to stop the low carb approach LOL

    There is more than one way to skin a cat. With some trial and error, paying attention to your body, and some basic common sense, you'll be able to quickly see what route to start with (and then tweak beyond that) to make things optimal for you and whatever your goals are.

    Hope this helps...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sporto View Post
    Hope this helps...

    Sporto
    It did. It is an affirmation and refresher.

    You reminded me how damn good I have felt being ketogenic

    Psychology and physiology often play cat and mouse with you. I love the carbs but they don't love me.

    Thanks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by B5150 View Post
    It did. It is an affirmation and refresher.

    You reminded me how damn good I have felt being ketogenic

    Psychology and phisiology often play cat and mouse with you. I love the carbs but they don't love me.

    Thanks.
    Yep...that right there is your answer (whether it's the one you wanted to hear or not)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sporto View Post
    We very briefly touched on this, but you are right...there are several things to take into consideration (and not all physiological either) when setting up the most optimal diet for someone.

    There are some things just within our own bodies that sort of "point" to the right direction for us. For instance, there is a fairly strong correlation between the "endo" phenotype and those particular people having better mood and energy on low carb/ketogenic diets - obvisouly because of the role insulin is playing within their bodies. That, to me, is an obvious sign right there. There needs to be a low carb/ketogenic approach to their dieting methods for cutting/maintaining/bulking. Cutting would involve more refeeds (think CKD, TKD, etc...), maintaining and bulking might be something more along the lines of low carb or iso-caloric. The point being, that you would NOT put someone like this on moderate to high carb approach. They will feel like crap all the time, their energy levels will be a roller coaster with lots of crashes, and they will ultimately just end up quitting.

    Take me for instance. I'm extremely insulin sensitive (obvisouly if you've seen my journal and saw how high my carbs were even 1 week out from contest). But, in years past I tried the low carb approach. I was downright miserable. Now? I'm a little lethargic at times just from low calories, but I have excellent mood and energy most of the time. That tells me I'm using the more optimal approach for my body. Incidentally, my body before was telling me to stop the low carb approach LOL

    There is more than one way to skin a cat. With some trial and error, paying attention to your body, and some basic common sense, you'll be able to quickly see what route to start with (and then tweak beyond that) to make things optimal for you and whatever your goals are.

    Hope this helps...

    Sporto
    That is pretty much where i am at now..

    I have always used a low fat, moderate carb, moderate protein diet when cutting weight.. I am going to try CKD style diet for a few weeks and see how i feel on that, then make a decision on what is better for me. I always feel decent on the moderate carb diet, but strength losses start to be a problem.
  

  
 

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