[FitModel]

I know that post workout you want to take simple carbs to replenish your glucose levels and force this into your muslce to become glycogen (or something like that)

normally how long do you insulin levels stay elevated so you can utilize this simple carbs post workout...I was under the impression it was immidietly to up till maybe an hour post workout...

however my friend was telling me that if u start post workout, and keep a sustained/constant level of simple carbs and protein going into your system you can keep your insulin levels elevated for 3+ hrs thus utilizing the insulin spike to store additional glycogen in your muslce cells. . .

?

[Nitrox]

Insulin levels rise in response to macronutrients (especially carbs) as they enter the bloodstream after digestion. It does not increase with exercise. Insulin SENSITIVITY increases with exercise.

The logic is that with elevated sensitivity, lean tissue will be hungrier for energy than fat tissue such that high glycemic carbs can be used to prevent muscle breakdown without getting fat.

IMO this is a significant oversimplification. The amount and duration of sensitivity increase is dependent on the intensity and duration of your exercise. The quantity of food that can be consumed without leading to fat gain will also depend on workout calories expended as well as when you last ate and how much.

Finally you don't need simple sugars. Any meal with appropriate calories and preferably some carbohydrate will suffice. Just make appropriate time allowances for getting the energy into your system.

PS - You can keep your insulin levels elevated as long as want. Just keep eating.

[pudzian2]

I think the whole eating simple high GI carbs PWO is overrated. if it doesn't make you fat, it will lead to fluid retention over time

[FitModel]

so, say my goal is to stay anti-catabolic (maybe even anabolic)...preworkout I usually eat a good meal 1 hr before, then prior too, if I didn't get enough protein I'll have a protein shake and sometimes some sort of pre workout supp/stim . . .

then prior too and during I sip on BCAA's (Xtend) and immidietly post workout I have a protein shake and an apple (usually), then if I do not have access to a good meal within 1 hr of post workout nutrition I sip on more BCAA's . . .

I notice they say SIP on BCAA's. Is this to keep the levels constant, and is it true that BCAA's are absorbed better when your insulin sensitivity is elevated (ie. during and post workout) so if your taking BCAA's say in the morning or at night you should take with simple carbs? . . .
and would sipping on a BCAA supplement post workout, but a little while after, meaning at least 30 minutes post (after the "anabolic window" ?) would this still be beneficial since my insulin sensitivity has maybe decreased since it has been replenished with protein shake and carbs (apple, etc...)

[pudzian2]

Originally Posted by FitModel

so, say my goal is to stay anti-catabolic (maybe even anabolic)...preworkout I usually eat a good meal 1 hr before, then prior too, if I didn't get enough protein I'll have a protein shake and sometimes some sort of pre workout supp/stim . . .

then prior too and during I sip on BCAA's (Xtend) and immidietly post workout I have a protein shake and an apple (usually), then if I do not have access to a good meal within 1 hr of post workout nutrition I sip on more BCAA's . . .

I notice they say SIP on BCAA's. Is this to keep the levels constant, and is it true that BCAA's are absorbed better when your insulin sensitivity is elevated (ie. during and post workout) so if your taking BCAA's say in the morning or at night you should take with simple carbs? . . .
and would sipping on a BCAA supplement post workout, but a little while after, meaning at least 30 minutes post (after the "anabolic window" ?) would this still be beneficial since my insulin sensitivity has maybe decreased since it has been replenished with protein shake and carbs (apple, etc...)

Like nitrox said, insulin sensitivity is not necessarily quantitatively measured. It depends on the exercise type, length, intesnsity etc. And like he said, with sensitivity up, you dont need Simple sugars to take advantage of it.

[milwood]

Originally Posted by pudzian2

I think the whole eating simple high GI carbs PWO is overrated. if it doesn't make you fat, it will lead to fluid retention over time

Most people have found that you don't need to choke down a bunch of cane sugar or Wonder bread post-workout in order to properly absorb your post workout protein. You can quite effectively do so by eating oatmeal or ay number of high-quality carbs. What seems to be true, though, is that you CAN get away with eating junk carbs post workout if you like to, 'cause they'll be burned up effectively as a result of your body's use of them at this time.

The post workout high-glycemic hype probably started with companies like Muscletech trying to pimp their sugary Cell-Tech and the like, saying you need all that to "force creatine and protein into your muscles".

[pudzian2]

Originally Posted by milwood

Most people have found that you don't need to choke down a bunch of cane sugar or Wonder bread post-workout in order to properly absorb your post workout protein. You can quite effectively do so by eating oatmeal or ay number of high-quality carbs. What seems to be true, though, is that you CAN get away with eating junk carbs post workout if you like to, 'cause they'll be burned up effectively as a result of your body's use of them at this time.

The post workout high-glycemic hype probably started with companies like Muscletech trying to pimp their sugary Cell-Tech and the like, saying you need all that to "force creatine and protein into your muscles".

I dont even think you NEED carbohydrates post workout depending on the goal in mind. At least not as many as most people view necessary. I take fast acting protein (whey isolate mostly) spiked with leucine and glutamine. I then eat an apple on the way out of the gym. I have not felt depleted as of yet. I workout at night, so I do not like eating a ton of carbs post workout. If it doesn't keep me up at night, it bloats me like hell. I eat oatmeal with apples and cinnamon and whey about 45mins pre workout as one of my scheduled meals. That gives me plenty of energy and still leaves some glycogen in my muscles. THis way I do not end up waiting until POST WORKOUT to refill my stores. Keep in mind eat more carbs in the first half of the day (starches grains etc.) and phase them out towards the end of the day. (this is what I do at least. It works for me, my body type, and my metabolism).

the 20 or so natural sugars I get from the apple helps shuttle some nutrients (proteins) into my muscles post workout. But any FOOD you eat will have an insulin response. You don't NEED carbs to take advantage of this....(carbs will give a larger response in most cases becuase they are more easily turned to glucose).

[hardknock]

Two servings of whole grain oatmeal with 3 swirls of honey, and chicken breast, I've yet to go wrong with that P/W ...

Started that about 7 weeks ago and never looked back

[msucurt]

Originally Posted by pudzian2

I dont even think you NEED carbohydrates post workout depending on the goal in mind. At least not as many as most people view necessary. I take fast acting protein (whey isolate mostly) spiked with leucine and glutamine. I then eat an apple on the way out of the gym. I have not felt depleted as of yet. I workout at night, so I do not like eating a ton of carbs post workout. If it doesn't keep me up at night, it bloats me like hell. I eat oatmeal with apples and cinnamon and whey about 45mins pre workout as one of my scheduled meals. That gives me plenty of energy and still leaves some glycogen in my muscles. THis way I do not end up waiting until POST WORKOUT to refill my stores. Keep in mind eat more carbs in the first half of the day (starches grains etc.) and phase them out towards the end of the day. (this is what I do at least. It works for me, my body type, and my metabolism).

the 20 or so natural sugars I get from the apple helps shuttle some nutrients (proteins) into my muscles post workout. But any FOOD you eat will have an insulin response. You don't NEED carbs to take advantage of this....(carbs will give a larger response in most cases becuase they are more easily turned to glucose).

thank u for posting that. I workout at 8pm, and for PWO meal, i come home and drink a whey protein shake, with 2 spoonfuls of leucine, and like 2 rice cakes. Done

thanks

[pudzian2]

Originally Posted by msucurt

thank u for posting that. I workout at 8pm, and for PWO meal, i come home and drink a whey protein shake, with 2 spoonfuls of leucine, and like 2 rice cakes. Done

thanks

it works out better that way but you must eat well during the day and utilize the first half of the day for carbs...when they will least likely spill over into fat stores.

[Naja]

Fructose preferentially refills liver glycogen over muscle glycogen, so I use dextrose or maltodextrin immediately post-workout. Fruit's useful later on, or a few hours before the workout.

[pudzian2]

Originally Posted by Naja

Fructose preferentially refills liver glycogen over muscle glycogen, so I use dextrose or maltodextrin immediately post-workout. Fruit's useful later on, or a few hours before the workout.

I just like sticking to whole foods, seems to work best for me. I tend to bloat like a MOFO on malto and dextrose and things.

[FitModel]

Originally Posted by Naja

Fructose preferentially refills liver glycogen over muscle glycogen, so I use dextrose or maltodextrin immediately post-workout. Fruit's useful later on, or a few hours before the workout.

\

so your saying dextrose/maltodextrin refills muslce glycogen more effectively then Fructose (ie. apple)

[pudzian2]

Originally Posted by FitModel

\

so your saying dextrose/maltodextrin refills muslce glycogen more effectively then Fructose (ie. apple)

depends on the individual. On paper, and in theory, yes. But I have gotten better results with post workout low GI carbs than high GI stuff like dextrose.

[Nitrox]

Originally Posted by FitModel

so your saying dextrose/maltodextrin refills muslce glycogen more effectively then Fructose (ie. apple)

This is a theory based on the fact that fructose must first be metabolized to glucose in the liver before it can be used for energy. However this is largely hypothetical. Some counter arguments that never seem to be quoted are:

- The impact from dextrose/maltodextrin being devoid of any micronutrition.
- The high rate of absorption from high GI refined carbs may exceed glycogen uptake rate and spill over into fat stores.

IMO people would do better not trying to micro manage their endocrine system (do you really know how it works?) with refined food sources like BCAAs and high GI carbs and instead, supply their system swith quality materials in the form of whole foods.

[pudzian2]

Originally Posted by Nitrox

This is a theory based on the fact that fructose must first be metabolized to glucose in the liver before it can be used for energy. However this is largely hypothetical. Some counter arguments that never seem to be quoted are:

- The impact from dextrose/maltodextrin being devoid of any micronutrition.
- The high rate of absorption from high GI refined carbs may exceed glycogen uptake rate and spill over into fat stores.

IMO people would do better not trying to micro manage their endocrine system (do you really know how it works?) with refined food sources like BCAAs and high GI carbs and instead, supply their system swith quality materials in the form of whole foods.

I agree!