daily fat intake

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by IainDaniel View Post
    Sounds like the pot calling the kettle black.

    You do realize ketones are toxic to the body, right?
    The Anabolic Diet is not a keto-diet. You get carbs in excess, but they are restricted some of the time. It's similar to carb cycling.

    And the comment about T-Nation? I've never had a post edited there after 600+ posts. The Anabolic Diet is a discussion about the anabolic diet, and has nothing to do with t-nation other than the fact that the URL of the thread contains the word 't-nation.'


  2. Quote Originally Posted by dhuge67 View Post
    The Anabolic Diet is not a keto-diet. You get carbs in excess, but they are restricted some of the time. It's similar to carb cycling.

    And the comment about T-Nation? I've never had a post edited there after 600+ posts. The Anabolic Diet is a discussion about the anabolic diet, and has nothing to do with t-nation other than the fact that the URL of the thread contains the word 't-nation.'
    It is not a keto diet??? The main goal of carb-cycling diets is to go into ketosis. In case you were not aware, CKD is an anagram for Cyclic Ketogenic Diet. The "Anabolic Diet" is a different version of a CKD plan.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys

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  3. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    It is not a keto diet??? The main goal of carb-cycling diets is to go into ketosis. In case you were not aware, CKD is an anagram for Cyclic Ketogenic Diet. The "Anabolic Diet" is a different version of a CKD plan.
    The Anabolic Diet is not a keto-diet, necessarily. For some it might be. A lot of times, the carb-up is so significant that you won't go into ketosis, except for possibly a day or two out of the week.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by dhuge67 View Post
    The Anabolic Diet is not a keto-diet, necessarily. For some it might be. A lot of times, the carb-up is so significant that you won't go into ketosis, except for possibly a day or two out of the week.
    I can guarantee that if you cut carbs as low as you recommend, then your body will go into ketosis within 36 hours or so.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  5. Quote Originally Posted by dhuge67 View Post
    A lot of times, the carb-up is so significant that you won't go into ketosis, except for possibly a day or two out of the week.
    Then it defeats its purpose.
    Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by jonny21 View Post
    Then it defeats its purpose.
    Not quite. By getting the carbs at one time, you replenish glycogen levels and then deplete them each week. The key is that you are eating basically all of the carbs for the week at one time, and then you're using them all up throughout the week, while still maintaining the fat-adapted state (which is usually only FULLY reached after 6 months - sometimes more). You wouldn't maintain a fat-adapted state if you ate carbs every day.

    It's a lifestyle change, not just some quick cutting or bulking diet (you can do either with this method of eating).

  7. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    I can guarantee that if you cut carbs as low as you recommend, then your body will go into ketosis within 36 hours or so.
    Again, with the carb-up, that's not necessarily true. You should also read about the Warrior Diet (which is insane to me, but interesting), which goes into a whole huge thing about how unbelievably large our glycogen stores are in comparison to what we believe they are (it goes into some talk about how there are 20,000 calories or more worth of glucose stores - If I'm remembering correctly).

  8. Simple fact, this fat adapted state that you are referring to is ketosis.
    Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC

  9. Quote Originally Posted by jonny21 View Post
    Simple fact, this fat adapted state that you are referring to is ketosis.
    I agree that it can be.

    Some people are not able to reach Ketosis on even 10 grams of carbs a day. It's not as simple for everyone to enter into the state of ketosis as you think.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by dhuge67 View Post
    I agree that it can be.

    Some people are not able to reach Ketosis on even 10 grams of carbs a day. It's not as simple for everyone to enter into the state of ketosis as you think.
    I think you are missing the point. Ketones are a by-product of lipid metabolism. So, if fatty acids are being used as energy ketones are produced and you are in ketosis. BTW, ketones are what your brain uses for energy in absence of glucose.
    Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC

  11. This post will clear it up (and yes, you are right and I was mistaken to a point, however you are not always in ketosis on the diet due to the carb-up):

    Despite what anybody says, the 30g of carbs does NOT keep you out of ketosis. In fact this diet has nothing to do with being in ketosis at all(as far as ketonuria goes). The next person that says "if you are in ketosis then you are not on the AD" should be beaten with a whole wheat pasta noodle.

    Triglycerides AND ketones are used by the body on this diet. When you load on the AD you are refilling your glycogen stores. Now when these glycogen stores are depleted then you start producing ketones for use by the brain and other tissues to function. That is why you load again.

    Some people begin showing Ketonuria(Ketones in the urine) sooner than others based on several factors with activity being the main one. There is a big difference between someone with a desk job and someone doing manual labor as far as glycogen depletion setting in even on 30g carbs.

    The lower your glycogen gets, the more likely you are to start showing ketones in your urine. There is no way around this besides upping your CHO during the week, but I have found 60g at times to still be insufficient.

    I have used the strips for the past two years and have seen what effects certain things have on ketone levels so despite what people want to think or say, my research strangely enough matches the data available that I(and from the sounds of it Bizmark) have read.

    Now if somebody says that the doctor told Nelson Montana that if you are in Ketosis then you are not on the AD, then I wish you the best, but you should realize that that was like 8-9 years ago and there is a bigger body of evidence to suggest otherwise.

    Glycogen stores empty = KETOSIS
    Increased Fat intake = Increase in lipolytic enzymes
    Increased lipolytic enzymes = FFA use for energy
    FFA use energy = Adaptation
    Adaptation + Glycogen stores empty = FFA and Ketones for energy
    FFA and Ketones for energy = MEGA fat burning and protein sparing

  12. Quote Originally Posted by dhuge67 View Post
    Glycogen stores empty = KETOSIS
    True
    Quote Originally Posted by dhuge67 View Post
    Increased Fat intake = Increase in lipolytic enzymes
    In caloric equilibrium/deficit. Otherwise more lipogenic enzymes present which will inhibit lipolytic processes
    Quote Originally Posted by dhuge67 View Post
    Increased lipolytic enzymes = FFA use for energy
    True
    Quote Originally Posted by dhuge67 View Post
    Glycogen stores empty = FFA and Ketones for energy
    Depends on stress levels. The more epinephrine or cortisol the higher chance of muscle catabolism regardless of "adaption"
    Quote Originally Posted by dhuge67 View Post
    FFA and Ketones for energy = MEGA fat burning and protein sparing
    Again, in a calorie deficit.
    Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC

  13. j21, I think you should post that on the thread at T-Nation. I'm curious to see what the others might reply with, as far as scientific reasoning is concerned for any possible arguments contrary to what you have said.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by dhuge67 View Post
    j21, I think you should post that on the thread at T-Nation. I'm curious to see what the others might reply with, as far as scientific reasoning is concerned for any possible arguments contrary to what you have said.
    Although I peruse a few forums, I typically keep most of my posting here. I am pretty confident with my reasoning.
    Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC

  15. Quote Originally Posted by jonny21 View Post
    Although I peruse a few forums, I typically keep most of my posting here. I am pretty confident with my reasoning.
    I'll ask for you!

  16. It might be my wishfull thinking but I think this is the diet that is going to have people settle on the happy medium of 33/33/33.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by ItsHectic View Post
    It might be my wishfull thinking but I think this is the diet that is going to have people settle on the happy medium of 33/33/33.
    Which is not "happy" at all when you consider differing levels of caloric intake. A 33/33/33 diet with an intake of 1800 calories (late stage of a serious cutting diet), your protein intake would be 150 grams....not good, if you weigh more than 150 lbs.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by dhuge67 View Post
    Which is not "happy" at all when you consider differing levels of caloric intake. A 33/33/33 diet with an intake of 1800 calories (late stage of a serious cutting diet), your protein intake would be 150 grams....not good, if you weigh more than 150 lbs.
    hmmm, well (PCF) 40/30/30 or 50/25/25 or even something like 50/20/30

  19. Quote Originally Posted by dhuge67 View Post
    Which is not "happy" at all when you consider differing levels of caloric intake. A 33/33/33 diet with an intake of 1800 calories (late stage of a serious cutting diet), your protein intake would be 150 grams....not good, if you weigh more than 150 lbs.
    Actually that is something that is debatable as well.

    Firstly when you are cutting you are not really looking to build muscle but more so to preserve muscle. Consequently protein requirements are not necessarily as high when cutting.

    Secondly, carbs and fats are protein sparing so as their percentages go up there is less demand on protein as an energy source.

    Even for a 150lb person 1800 cals is pretty aggressive - unless they are sedentary. For say a lean 200lb'er I would expect some muscle loss on 1800 cals whether they consumed 150g or 300g of protein.
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