[FitModel]

So I had my BF tested "hydrostatic"

January : weight : 173 : 9.1% BF 157 lean mass, 15 Fat mass

- this was a slight improvement in all areas from my test before this one, which was back in September 06

NOW, I just took it again a few days ago

May : weight : 161.5 : 8.7% BF 147.5 lean mass, 14 fat mass


I lost 10lbs of muslce.
I really don't know what to equate this too...My diet was relatively the same, I did decrease carbs and do some carb cycling, but for the most part my protein was AT least 150g's a day, usually more...

I also increased cardio from 1-2 times a week too 3-4 times a week for 20 minutes : moderate - high intensity.

one other thing to mention, was that after my last test when I weighed 173lbs (before the most recent one) that was right after I did a 4 week cycle of Pheradrol, even after proper PCT (nolva, creatine, zma, trib, LX) I still felt really shutdown. Do you think that is what is mainly responsible for my huge loss in muscle mass, and hardly any loss in fat? (4 month gap)

I really don't know what to hold responsible for this, I had a feeling I had lost some muscle, but I also thought I would of lost fat, considering I kept my protein intake high and just increased my cardio, WHY did I only lose muslce and NOT any fat???

Thanks for any input...

[jonny21]

What did you weigh prior to cycle? All gains on PH's/Steroids should not be considered LBM, expect some fuid gains which will be lost.

Were you in a caloric deficit?

If I am not mistaken, glucose will be the primary source of fuel fo mod-high intensity cardio so increased fat utilization should not have been be expected. If you were restricting carb's expect more protein to be utilized for glucose (this includes some of your muscle mass)

[B5150]

Along the lines of what jonny said...

...glycogen does count in the calculation or measurement of LBM. Pheradrol may have had you glycogen saturated and improved you calculated or measured LBM. Without the glycogen retention of the anabolic and the carb restricted diet and the cardio you basically depeleted your glycogen stores which now reflect in a lowered LBM.

At your bf carb ups or carbs cycling diets and other glycogen manipulating techniques need to be employed. You are very lean. Getting any leaner is going to take some serious advanced methods.

If it were easy right now I would be 200lbs/10%.

OTOH: Hi jonny

[T-Bone]

Originally Posted by B5150

Along the lines of what jonny said...

...glycogen does count in the calculation or measurement of LBM. Pheradrol may have had you glycogen saturated and improved you calculated or measured LBM. Without the glycogen retention of the anabolic and the carb restricted diet and the cardio you basically depeleted your glycogen stores which now reflect in a lowered LBM.

At your bf carb ups or carbs cycling diets and other glycogen manipulating techniques need to be employed. You are very lean. Getting any leaner is going to take some serious advanced methods.

If it were easy right now I would be 200lbs/10%.

OTOH: Hi jonny

Thats were I am trying to get to eventualy. Maybe someday 200 pounds and 10 percent. That would be perfect for me. Baby steps though. I am doing a log on my way...

[FitModel]

Originally Posted by jonny21

What did you weigh prior to cycle? All gains on PH's/Steroids should not be considered LBM, expect some fuid gains which will be lost.

Were you in a caloric deficit?

If I am not mistaken, glucose will be the primary source of fuel fo mod-high intensity cardio so increased fat utilization should not have been be expected. If you were restricting carb's expect more protein to be utilized for glucose (this includes some of your muscle mass)

Originally Posted by B5150

Along the lines of what jonny said...

...glycogen does count in the calculation or measurement of LBM. Pheradrol may have had you glycogen saturated and improved you calculated or measured LBM. Without the glycogen retention of the anabolic and the carb restricted diet and the cardio you basically depeleted your glycogen stores which now reflect in a lowered LBM.

At your bf carb ups or carbs cycling diets and other glycogen manipulating techniques need to be employed. You are very lean. Getting any leaner is going to take some serious advanced methods.

If it were easy right now I would be 200lbs/10%.

OTOH: Hi jonny

BEFORE pheradrol I was 177.5 at 12.1% BF (after the phera which I was 173 at 9.1%, therefore, I gained some muslce and lost some fat)

I suppose on a few days I was on a calorie deficit, I only did carb cycling for about 3 weeks, nothing major, I had very high protein on my low/no carb days (250+)

what do you guys think I should do this time around, in order to gain lean mass and lose BF fat...i'm thinking of upping my calories/carbs, doing LOW intensity cardio 3-4x week and lifting heavy (opposed to moderate, which is my norm)

also I might try some Havoc

thoughts?

[B5150]

Originally Posted by FitModel

what do you guys think I should do this time around, in order to gain lean mass and lose BF fat...

"May : weight : 161.5 : 8.7% BF 147.5 lean mass, 14 fat mass"

You are at 8.7% bf.

You need to either:

...gain lbm VERY VERY VERY slowly and maintain 8.7% bf....

...loose bf VERY VERY VERY slowly and maintaine 147.5 lmb. ...

...come to grips that at the bf you are you cannot gain LBM at any significant rate and realize that you may need to gain a little body fat in the process of gaining lbm.

i'm thinking of upping my calories/carbs, doing LOW intensity cardio 3-4x week and lifting heavy (opposed to moderate, which is my norm)

This might help you keep bf low by partioning surplus calories to lbm without gaining bf......

I'm not near as lean as you. To be growing LBM at 10-12% is a terrific body composition. Any less body fat and trying to gain lbm seems counterproductive and unachievable without some very serious amounts of anabolic steroids. JMHO

[Jayhawkk]

Great advice and none to add other than keep your head up and focused and chomp at the bit instead of just trying to make huge changes in a short amount of time.

[B5150]

I had to edit my privious post. Made no sense the way I stated it.

[Jayhawkk]

Most of mine don't either but I have learned to leave it as is...Too much editing

[B5150]

I guess that explains why you concur with my incomprehensiveness.

[Jayhawkk]

I just know you well enough to automatically get what it is you're trying to get across without having to wait for your edit

[FitModel]

thanks for the help, we'll see what happends...
My goal is to gain back the 10lbs and get BF around 7...I have 6 weeks till my next test.

[jonny21]

Originally Posted by FitModel

thanks for the help, we'll see what happends...
My goal is to gain back the 10lbs and get BF around 7...I have 6 weeks till my next test.

Morning low intensity cardio, afternoon/evening weight training might work well, imo.

Originally Posted by B5150

OTOH: Hi jonny

Hey B, how's things?

[FitModel]

Originally Posted by jonny21

Morning low intensity cardio, afternoon/evening weight training might work well, imo.

empty stomach, or what should I eat before...

also, typically I do weight training, then my cardio right after, or later that night...should I only have protein before cardio, or should I have carbs as well?