Fat 'counters vitamin C benefits'

[yeahright]

Fat 'counters vitamin C benefits'

The presence of fat in the stomach may override the anti-cancer effects of vitamin C, research suggests.
In laboratory experiments, a team at the University of Glasgow simulated what happens in the human stomach.

They found vitamin C (ascorbic acid) mopped up potential cancer-causing compounds that are made when saliva and food mixes with stomach acid.

But when they added fat to the mix, the ascorbic acid could no longer convert the hazardous compounds into safe ones.

The scientists say their findings show how diet might be linked to certain stomach cancers.

Stomach chemicals

Nitrite, which is present in saliva and comes from nitrate in our diet, is thought to be able to trigger gastric cancer.

When it is swallowed and enters the acidic environment of the stomach, nitrite spontaneously forms nitrosating species, and these are able to convert a range of other stomach chemicals into potential cancer-causing agents called N-nitrosocompounds.

Antioxidants like ascorbic acid protect against the formation of these nitrosocompounds by converting the nitrosating species into nitric oxide.

However, when fat is present, it reacts with the nitric oxide to reform nitrosating species, the scientists found.


This is another reason to underline the importance of a healthy balanced diet
Bridget Aisbitt,
British Nutrition Foundation

Lead author Emilie Combet said: "These results show that the presence of lipid can markedly alter the protective effects of antioxidants, and how a diet rich in fat can directly influence gastric biochemistry."

She presented her work at the annual meeting of the Society of Experimental Biology.

Bridget Aisbitt, nutrition scientist for the British Nutrition Foundation, said: "Cancer is a complex disease developed over many years due to a number of genetic and environmental factors, so it's important not to imply that any one factor can 'cause cancer'.

"However, this research is interesting."

She said fat-compatible antioxidants in the body, such as beta-carotene, could also neutralise the nitrosocompounds.

She advised: "This is another reason to underline the importance of a healthy balanced diet where meals high in fat should not be frequent and five portions of fruit and vegetables - our main source of vitamin C - are eaten each day."

Story from BBC NEWS:
BBC NEWS | Health | Fat 'counters vitamin C benefits'

 

[acshadow]

so take vitamin C on an empty stomach?

 

[WannaBeHulk]

so take vitamin C on an empty stomach?

it should be fine, its water soluble.

nice find yeahright, i was unaware!

 

[yeahright]

so take vitamin C on an empty stomach?

My reaction would be to make sure you get some of your vitamin C on an empty stomach or with a meal that doesn't contain fat.

This article focussed on vitamin C's ability to prevent stomach cancer (the fat apparently blocks this ability) but the body is a complex series of systems. For all we know, fat could help transport the vitamin C elsehwere in the body where it does good.

So, the takeaway message for me from this article is to make sure that I get my nutrients from a variety of sources and make sure that some of my vitamin C intake occurs without fat in the same meal.

 

[John Smeton]

Good find.

 

[WannaBeHulk]

My reaction would be to make sure you get some of your vitamin C on an empty stomach or with a meal that doesn't contain fat.

This article focussed on vitamin C's ability to prevent stomach cancer (the fat apparently blocks this ability) but the body is a complex series of systems. For all we know, fat could help transport the vitamin C elsehwere in the body where it does good.

So, the takeaway message for me from this article is to make sure that I get my nutrients from a variety of sources and make sure that some of my vitamin C intake occurs without fat in the same meal.

great analysis! this seems to be the best protocol since vitamin C serves so many functions its ridiculous. this method would likely take advantage of everything C has to offer.

 

[evoVIII]

I have time released vit C 1000 mg's so that concern would be mitigated but that definitely affects how vit C should be taken

 

[rms80]

great analysis! this seems to be the best protocol since vitamin C serves so many functions its ridiculous. this method would likely take advantage of everything C has to offer.

Interesting posts- we have some more good info on Vit. C chem, uses, and their relation to our products over in our Applied Nutriceuticals sub-forum- come check it out

 

[John Smeton]

just took some vit C with postraining shake. This should work , correct?

Probally before or after training is the bests time to take vit C

 

[RexGrandis]

just took some vit C with postraining shake. This should work , correct?

Probally before or after training is the bests time to take vit C

I heard Vitamin C + NAC are no good together. Personally I prefer to take NAC with my postworkout shake.

 

[John Smeton]

I heard Vitamin C + NAC are no good together. Personally I prefer to take NAC with my postworkout shake.

Never heard that Rex. Got the research to back this one up?
I take Nac postraining shake.

 

[RexGrandis]

Never heard that Rex. Got the research to back this one up?
I take Nac postraining shake.

Nope, just something I read on another forum somewhere.

Bugger it, I'm going to start taking vitamin c with my shake too. :ntome:

 

[RexGrandis]

Nope, just something I read on another forum somewhere.

Bugger it, I'm going to start taking vitamin c with my shake too. :ntome:

Oh wait, I found something on good 'ol pubmed

Free Radic Biol Med. 2001 Sep 15;31(6):745-53.Click here to read Links
Supplementation with vitamin C and N-acetyl-cysteine increases oxidative stress in humans after an acute muscle injury induced by eccentric exercise.

* Childs A,
* Jacobs C,
* Kaminski T,
* Halliwell B,
* Leeuwenburgh C.

Biochemistry of Aging Laboratory, Center for Exercice Science, College of Human Performance, University of Florida, Gainesville, FL 32611, USA.

There has been no investigation to determine if the widely used over-the-counter, water-soluble antioxidants vitamin C and N-acetyl-cysteine (NAC) could act as pro-oxidants in humans during inflammatory conditions. We induced an acute-phase inflammatory response by an eccentric arm muscle injury. The inflammation was characterized by edema, swelling, pain, and increases in plasma inflammatory indicators, myeloperoxidase and interleukin-6. Immediately following the injury, subjects consumed a placebo or vitamin C (12.5 mg/kg body weight) and NAC (10 mg/kg body weight) for 7 d. The resulting muscle injury caused increased levels of serum bleomycin-detectable iron and the amount of iron was higher in the vitamin C and NAC group. The concentrations of lactate dehydrogenase (LDH), creatine kinase (CK), and myoglobin were significantly elevated 2, 3, and 4 d postinjury and returned to baseline levels by day 7. In addition, LDH and CK activities were elevated to a greater extent in the vitamin C and NAC group. Levels of markers for oxidative stress (lipid hydroperoxides and 8-iso prostaglandin F2alpha; 8-Iso-PGF2alpha) and antioxidant enzyme activities were also elevated post-injury. The subjects receiving vitamin C and NAC had higher levels of lipid hydroperoxides and 8-Iso-PGF2alpha 2 d after the exercise. This acute human inflammatory model strongly suggests that vitamin C and NAC supplementation immediately post-injury, transiently increases tissue damage and oxidative stress.

PMID: 11557312 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

[John Smeton]

Yeah I see this. So Take Vit C Seperate then your Nac.

Im thinking the best time to take Vit C is in between meals on an empty stomach. Because with the Fat meals,most meals are fat except the post training meal this studie saysd Nac in combination with Vit C causes muscle breakdown.

This is science guys . We are breaking it down to micro's but all these little facts and micros add to the big picture. Nice

 

[RexGrandis]

I take 500mg of NAC before & after my workouts and a buffered vitamin c supplement (NOW Ester-C) at any other time of the day.

 

[yeahright]

Oh wait, I found something on good 'ol pubmed

This acute human inflammatory model strongly suggests that vitamin C and NAC supplementation immediately post-injury, transiently increases tissue damage and oxidative stress.

Just a thought but isn't damage to the muscle tissue what we're trying to do during heavy lifting? It's the resulting repair that stimulates muscle growth. I suppose it depends upon what type of injury is being done here.

Perhaps someone with more biology knowledge might chime in?

 

[TheCrownedOne]

Some speculate that preserving a larger mass of muscle tissue, freeing it from training induced damage, leaves a larger portion of androgenic receptors intact and ready to receive anabolic hormones.
But who really knows. Just go workout

 

[yeahright]

Some speculate that preserving a larger mass of muscle tissue, freeing it from training induced damage, leaves a larger portion of androgenic receptors intact and ready to receive anabolic hormones.
But who really knows. Just go workout

I could see that.....nutrients diverted to tissue repair are diverted from tissue growth.

 

[John Smeton]

Originally Posted by pubmed
Free Radic Biol Med. 2001 Sep 15;31(6):745-53.Click here to read Links
Supplementation with vitamin C and N-acetyl-cysteine increases oxidative stress in humans after an acute muscle injury induced by eccentric exercise.

* Childs A,
* Jacobs C,
* Kaminski T,
* Halliwell B,
* Leeuwenburgh C.

Biochemistry of Aging Laboratory, Center for Exercice Science, College of Human Performance, University of Florida, Gainesville, FL 32611, USA.

There has been no investigation to determine if the widely used over-the-counter, water-soluble antioxidants vitamin C and N-acetyl-cysteine (NAC) could act as pro-oxidants in humans during inflammatory conditions. We induced an acute-phase inflammatory response by an eccentric arm muscle injury. The inflammation was characterized by edema, swelling, pain, and increases in plasma inflammatory indicators, myeloperoxidase and interleukin-6. Immediately following the injury, subjects consumed a placebo or vitamin C (12.5 mg/kg body weight) and NAC (10 mg/kg body weight) for 7 d. The resulting muscle injury caused increased levels of serum bleomycin-detectable iron and the amount of iron was higher in the vitamin C and NAC group. The concentrations of lactate dehydrogenase (LDH), creatine kinase (CK), and myoglobin were significantly elevated 2, 3, and 4 d postinjury and returned to baseline levels by day 7. In addition, LDH and CK activities were elevated to a greater extent in the vitamin C and NAC group. Levels of markers for oxidative stress (lipid hydroperoxides and 8-iso prostaglandin F2alpha; 8-Iso-PGF2alpha) and antioxidant enzyme activities were also elevated post-injury. The subjects receiving vitamin C and NAC had higher levels of lipid hydroperoxides and 8-Iso-PGF2alpha 2 d after the exercise. This acute human inflammatory model strongly suggests that vitamin C and NAC supplementation immediately post-injury, transiently increases tissue damage and oxidative stress.

PMID: 11557312 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]\

From this article Is it understod that Vit C combined with Nac causes more tissue damage ? Thats what I got unless In way off base.

So lets assume this is right . Then the pbvious solution is to take Vit C seperate from Vit C. AND THE MAIN THREAD TO TAKE VIT C SEPERATE FROM FATS OR A HIGHER FAT MEAL. To be safe Vit C should be taking on an empty stomach between meals. Maybe some one like Pat Arnold could chime in but i really dont want to bother him over this. I think this one is already figured out unless otherwise.

 

[RexGrandis]

But who really knows. Just go workout

I think that's the best peice of advice I've ever seen :clean:

Best thing to do is get some buffered C and don't even think about it, life's better when you don't think about things :rofl:

But I do agree, we need someone with more expertise to offer their views

 

[TheCrownedOne]

I think that's the best peice of advice I've ever seen :clean:

Best thing to do is get some buffered C and don't even think about it, life's better when you don't think about things :rofl:

But I do agree, we need someone with more expertise to offer their views

Haha, thanks It's that whole, "missing the forest for the trees," thing.

 

[John Smeton]

I think that's the best peice of advice I've ever seen :clean:

Best thing to do is get some buffered C and don't even think about it, life's better when you don't think about things :rofl:

But I do agree, we need someone with more expertise to offer their views

Talked to Pat Arnold about it here is his reply

alot about anti-oxidants is unclear. My feelings are that these two supplements (which are very good supplements) might be beneficial during rest periods but perhaps counterproductive after intense exercise

i wouldn't lose sleep over it though