- 01-11-2007, 01:10 PM
Hello all. New to this board, but not to lifting. Was looking for a little advice and guidance. I'm 24, 5'9", 160#. Will post my diet below with supps. Have been working out for about 2 years, really serious the past 16 months. Started this journey at 115#, quite the ecto, which is my body type. Been doing MaxOT, on week 7 with the best results I've ever had (5 days per week workout, 1 muscle group every 5 days or so).
The past 6 months have been trying my very best at getting my diet dialed in, and think I have done a pretty decent job, all considering.
I will mention this up front, I am a VERY busy healthcare professional working crazy hours, and I know more solid food would be better in lieu of shakes, but truthfully, I am lucky to get the shakes down. Work five 12 hour shifts a week.
Muscle Milk with 2c skim
1/2c dry oats in shake
MidMorning / Noon (as my days start at different times)
Arby's Large Roast Beef (only 1/2 bun) --high fat, I know (28gm), only couple times a week, but 43gm protein.
Banana or apple
Wendy's Chili (large)
Banana or apple
ON Whey 2 serv, 2c skim
Cottage Cheese, 1/2c
1 hour before -
ON Whey 1 serv, 1c skim, 1tbsp peanut butter
25 min before-
NO Xplode (for now, neutral on its effectivness)
ON Whey 2 serv, water
salad (vinagrette drsg)
baked potato, little margarine.
(I snack intermittently all night long)
Muscle Milk 1 serv, 2c skim
Throw in 1 nonfat starbucks latte for a little kick at some point nearly everyday.
Any comments or criticism would be appreciated. Any supp suggestions? I have another 40# for my long term goal, and was wonderding if there is anything else I might be able to do to augment my current progress?
Thanks, I appreciate your time in helping me.
- 01-11-2007, 01:26 PM
PWO shake should have some fruit or carbs, oats are my staple. Need to add in atleast one other piece of meat. Shakes are good but the cottage cheese would be better served before bed. Whey protein shakes are good pre and post workout, but meat is a better choice for atlest two meals a day. chicken, steak, pork, turkey, ham, salmon
something. The mornming apple/ banana IMO would be much better if you switched it with some vegetables, dark grees perferrably. try getting one more meal in during the day or shake but most of your calories are late in the day. Some of your meals are Shake(protein), milk(protein),cottage cheese(protein) see a trend.... you should be trying to structure your meals in balance to what your body needs 45% carbs, 40%protein, 15% fat. The fat can come from nuts (high in protein) extra virgin olive oil (on meat for marinades, salads. etc) dairy, which you have. Its a good start you have the idea. Try FitDay - Free Weight Loss and Diet Journal to get a better idea on your nutrient breakdown (protein, carb,fat ratio) or the boards recipe section to find delicious balanced recipes, fitday is free contribute to the board to get gold and say i sent ya, lol. good luck.
01-11-2007, 01:39 PM
Will definetly add some oats to the PWO shake, that's easy enough, and makes sense.
Never thought of switching out the fruit for veg (guess its just been a preference until now.) Vit K wouldn't hurt. Can sub the fruit in the into a shake, would make them tast better anyway while at the same time bolstering my caloric intake, especially in the morn. I agree my calories are weighted to the eve ....when I have more availability and time to prepare, something I need to look at and make some adjustments.
Cottage cheese to eve / bed because of the caesin (milk) derived protein? Can do that and willl switch in some pasta earlier in the day to bolster carbs.
Interesting mentioning FitDay ...just started today (before you mentioned)...... the more you know, the more you grow
01-11-2007, 01:49 PM
Seems pretty solid, considering the occupation that you have. How much sleep do you usually get? If sleep is a problem, then you may start to tax your immune system too much, and you are suceptible to sickness as is.
01-11-2007, 02:46 PM
Originally Posted by Rodja
Having had epistein barr virus (EBV) ---aka mono-- earlier in life, I have a tendancy to get tired really quickly. I religiously get 8 hours a night as a result, I have to else the following day I feel like I've been hit with a freight train, and everything suffers as a result.
Being an ecto also seems to hold me back. Despit being solid, my arms do not really have much difference from upper to lower in circumfrence (~1.5" > in upper). Any suggestions for this apparent genetic issue?
Been following diet I posted, as normal today with a few minor changes ....so far 37/45/15 ......but protein will bolster with shakes this afternoon, so I'm not concerned.
Would any stack of h-drol + mass fx, or JW help with my gains at this point, esp given my ecto status??
I know my hormonal balance isn't bad, had labs drawn about 6 months ago to ensure no hypogonadism.
Prolactin 6.1 (2.5 - 17ng/mL)
FSH 1.9 (0.7 - 11.1mIU/mL)
Test, total 501 (250 1100 ng/dL)
Test, free 76 (35 - 155pg/mL)
Liver is fine, normal AST, ALT, albumin, globulin, alk phos.
TSH 2.26 (0.45 - 4.50mU/L)
01-11-2007, 03:44 PM
i like the fact that you ask for advice, then actually consider it. Some use the same approach then scorn if your advice is conflicting, nice job. good to see you have had bloodwork done, nice. Also i will recommend that you tweak your diet well before considering hormones at this point. Realise that regaurless of what you take its the food going in that will shape your body. It is my personal opinion that if you minipulate your hormones they will go lower, during PCT you bring your levels back or on rare occasions they dont change much. But why risk it with so many non hormonal or atleast side effect free hormonal pathways. Try out Hyperdrol (h-2 coming soon) JW as you mentioned, Anabolic pump (acts like insulin, while blocking fat cells from uptaking nutrients), super cissus by USP, Activate : rebound reloaded (Non Hormonal stack- NHA). about your arms, they will change as you put slabs of meat IN your body and therefore ON your body, anything good is worth fighting for, dont take shortcuts until your options are less.
01-11-2007, 06:27 PM
Thanks for the compliments, I appreciate them. If one asks, they should actively listen. Why else ask for help? True though that people are out there such as this and it is sad.Originally Posted by somewhatgifted
I do plan on tweaking my diet, and will post a weeks worth of fitday's, and continue monitoring afterwards. Awesome tool to achieve the 45/40/15.
About hormones, that thought never crossed my mind at this point, especially for the reasons you mentioned. It maybe something to consider when options run out, and I still have quite a few left at this point.
What you've said about hormones, I completely agree. It is a risk one runs when using. While bolstering your total hormone level, it also causes the endogenous hormones (one's produced by your body) to be supressed, sometimes to the point of complete absence of production. Guys that complain of "shrinkage" is directly related supression / shut off of androgen production, as the testes are a main source of production. Sometimes, its permanent or doesn't rebound much. No different than any other hormone, the body's motto ...."if you're going to supply it, why should I make it??" While I'm no doctor, I am a RN, and its basic physiology, even if it is uncommon.
While you suggested against hormones, did I misinterpret that you feel the non-hormonals would be ok for me now? I don't want to mistake your advice.
Anyway, while I'm still figuring out the system on this board, my rep increased, apparently, and I thank you for that along with the guidance.
01-12-2007, 12:36 AM
01-12-2007, 11:08 AM
You can tweak your ratio most are in between 40%-45% carbs, 35%-45% protein, 15%-20% fat, its up to you. I prefer the 45 carb, 40 protein, 15 fat. I would try non hormonal routes before PH. I have used PH's and have experienced some shrinkage, but as normal hpta function is restored they resume normal status. however after sevral PH cycles how does one say function/size is normal, besides having had pre PH bloodwork like yourself. Life is a tradeoff muscle vs health, money vs morals, legal vs illegal. Why trade potential problems for muscle you can earn with low rick factors. It is not that important, and one day i said to myself, im not small, im not going to compete, why am i still acting like i am, and why am i still taking risks for the uneccessary. My focus is now cardio health, sport activity, and healthy eating, not throwing slabs of muscle on my body. Ive changes my mind about the whole meat thing i mentioned, if your getting adequate protein from safer sources then why not. Cottage cheese is better for the ticker so why not, eating 5 chicken breasts in a day is not uncommon for bulkers but how does it implicate long term health? i dunno. being a RN see what you think about "anabolic pump" it hormone free and theres a write up , http://anabolicminds.com/forum/syner...tml#post704946 .
01-12-2007, 12:22 PM
How much milk are you drinking? I counted about 2Litres a day in your first post. I reckon thats too much as it burdons your liver and your digestion in general too much. I would at least halve it and replace with other food/drink/fats. Especially if youve had EBV, your liver MAY already be a little sluggish (not diseased, hence your normal bloodwork) and this is why you could be feeling a little flat. Have you also got gilberts syndrome? ( or iscolated eleveated billirubin)? MIlk is full of anti-biotics too which wont help your guts. You also might be surprised at how much sugar is in it too.
iMO, I dont think cow's milk is as good for people as some doctors make out and especially if your having large quantities of it every day. Rember, your not a baby cow with 6 stomaches, your a human with 1 stomach. I dont know of any other species that drinks another species milk.
Im being picky here I know, but thats because your current diet is dam near perfect.
01-12-2007, 02:18 PM
I remember watching jack lalane an his juicer on late night t.v, Q:"jack do you drink milk" A: "of course not im not a suckling calf." Some say milk is ok for kids but not great for adults and many are unknowingly ingesting it with insufficient digestive enzymes to break it down correctly. some side include gas, irritable bowel, thick throad flegm, congestion.....
Sounds familiar good observation jaydee. Try cutting out dairy, as an experiment, as this was an issue for me and my roomate what are the odds of both of us having the same problem.
01-12-2007, 03:08 PM
01-12-2007, 03:15 PM
01-12-2007, 03:27 PM
Tackle these one at a time ....firstly, onto the AP question.
Cortisol is a hormone, produced by the adrenal gland when the body is under stress. Your hypothalamus, via the pituitary gland, directs the adrenal glands to secrete both cortisol and adrenaline. Cortisol is released as part of your daily hormonal cycle, but both hormones can also be released in reaction to perceived stress -- both physical and emotional – as part of the body’s fight-or-flight response that is essential for survival.
Adrenaline makes you energetic and alert, and increases metabolism. It also helps fat cells to release energy. Cortisol helps your body become even more effective at producing glucose from proteins, and is designed to help quickly increase the body’s energy in times of stress.
It’s not the classic fight-or-flight stress that’s thought to cause weight problems, because in those situations, a stressful event is quickly resolved, and the cortisol released is absorbed into our systems, aided by the increased circulation provided by a pounding heart.
Instead, some experts now believe that the problem for many of us is being in a constant state of stress, for various reasons. This leads to a constant state of excess cortisol production. Excess cortisol stimulates glucose production. This excess glucose then typically is converted into fat, ending up as stored fat.
While I cannot say that I agree that insulin stimulates fat storage ......
One factor we know can cause imbalances in cortisol is overconsumption of simple carbohydrates. When you have eaten a concentration of simple carbohydrates – a snack of a candy bar and/or a soda, for example -- the body generates a strong insulin response, to prevent excess blood sugar. This large insulin response in turn can trigger a dramatic drop in blood sugar – sometimes to levels that are even too low – in the 3 to 5 hours after the simple carbohydrate was eaten. When blood glucose levels fall, this triggers a surge of adrenal stress hormones, including adrenaline and cortisol.
See a cycle?
As far as the GLUT4 or PPAR-gamma ....wow, beyond me!! I used an endocrinology book for the info in this post, that belongs to a good friend (also a MD). It mentions nothing about GLUT4 or PPAR-gamma. Tried looking it up on PubMed and while I normally do well with big words, I couldn't make sense of much.
Hope this helps!!
It does, however, seem logical that IF the product does what the post claims, that it will be effective. My curiosity is always in knowing if it's true.
On concern, and I'm not an expert, but say the product is used and you BF lowers dramatically. You enter a period where your adrenal hormones surge (car accident, some emotional event), and you are VERY limited on adipose tissue from which to draw energy, would your body turn catabolic and eat away your hard work?
01-12-2007, 03:35 PM
Maybe I'll try a stack of h-drol, alone to start with. Seems to be the non-PH right now. I agree with your points ... life is always going to be a trade-off.Originally Posted by somewhatgifted
At this point, 30-40# total more and I'll be happy. 180-190 isn't bad for someone who at 23 was barely 119. ha! If you're not going to compete, I agree .....is it truly worth the risk for that extra 10#?
My diet seems in check today, 43, 32, 21 ....carbs will pick up with PWO shake.
Ever heard the saying .....you are what you eat? I dont think I can say it better myself :burg:
01-12-2007, 03:43 PM
I completely agree with you, but I will say that my milk consumption isn't a new thing, I've always drank at least 5-7 glasses a day.Originally Posted by jaydee
It is a common misconception that those people who are lactose intolerant are a minority. Look world-wide and only ~30% on individuals possess the enzyme to properly break down lactose, most are ....go figure caucasian, and American.
Milk is full of antibiotics, and I dont even necessarily trust the "antibiotic free, organic" stuff they sell at 200% the cost of regular milk. Will certainly see about halving it, and what dietary compensations to accomodate this shift.
No Gilberts, but have the wonderful Chronic Fatigue that is so commonly associated with EBV. My titer is still through the roof from infection ~10 years ago. Luckily, I have no other comorbities .....and my fam hx is pretty benign ...so far.
Thanks for the insight.
01-12-2007, 03:49 PM
Would halving it be a good start?? Conflicting information ..haha! I've given up sweets (not an easy task) and dairy is my other comfort food (no ice cream anymore, that was my favorite!).Originally Posted by somewhatgifted
Very true about the above signs / symptoms! People mistake lactose intolerance for alot of things, or even lactose over-indulgence.
Remember .....only 30% of people have the enzyme. that leaves 70% of people worldwide that can't tolerate much or any at all. If this is the case then, be weary with whey!!
01-12-2007, 03:51 PM
My Dad tried that for years. lol Not he's round enough to roll down the street, and he gets alot of physical activity. Carbs ...carbs ...carbs .... and now insulin resistance.Originally Posted by TeamSavage
Maybe every once in a while though ....
Done with replies now ...wheeew!
01-12-2007, 10:38 PM
Will post foods if anyone wants to see them, but just didn't fit on screen capture. Think I have this down ......? Carbs high in eve as this was a workout day, per recommendations above.
01-13-2007, 10:20 AM
Your talking about two totally different things here. I am only referring to the burdon cow's milk will put on your digestion in general which will only make you more tired and will hurt your gains and health in general.Originally Posted by imprezzion
If your concerned about being INTOLERANT to the proteins in milk, then you might want to trial a DAIRY free diet, not just a milk free. And halving your milk intake obviously wont help, you need complete abstinence. If you do go off it, remember to keep calcium in check. There are a lot of foods that have calcium in it, so you shouldnt even need to supplement it, but just check your RDI.
The best way to check for intolerance is to get a 93 food allergy panel done, (thats what they call them in my country) but this costs a couple of hundred dollars. Depending on how bad the reaction is, you may need to be off anywhere from one and half years to never eat/drink dairy again. They reckon that dairy is public enemy number one on most of these allergy panels. It might be worth looking into since youve had EBV and are still feeling flat from it. Somthing to keep in mind anyway.
Always run this stuff by your doctor first though obviously.
01-13-2007, 01:33 PM
Point well taken. The intolerance I was manainly aiming at SWG. But will definetly try this for a while and see how it goes. ThanksOriginally Posted by jaydee
01-13-2007, 03:37 PM
I have a little salad i make for myself and its packed with goodies.
Bag salad, perferably spinach (if you like it) of baby greens, just a nice coulourful mix, the typical romaine or headlettuce is boring and less nutritional by far.
Mixed nuts, or just peanuts.
Chicken breast grilled or baked, sometimes pan fried with a little extra virgin olive oil. Or tuna out of the can no cooking required.
Cheese, cheddar, mozza, parmesan doesnt matter cheese is awesome, cut the block cheese into little cubes.
Apple sliced, then halved, the smaller the more apple you get in each bite. you can keep the skin or shave it off.
tomato highly nutritional neutral in flavour and easy to prep.
Mix greens, cucumber, peanuts, chicken, cheese, tomato, apple, nuts in a bowl add fat free itailian, sundried tomato and oregano.
simple, easy, quick prep time, highly nutritions great for any time of day, awesome energy boost. I noticed your typical diet is definetly a bachelors diet with little to no fresh fruit and vegetables. Doesnt mean you need to have frozen veggies, make it fun and tasty. This would definitely put a hop in your step.
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