- 11-16-2006, 12:34 AM
- 11-16-2006, 08:07 AM
It is good to have a variety of fats in your diet, so yes Flaxseed oil is fine.
There are lots of fat sources Nuts, avacado, olive oil.
11-16-2006, 11:57 PM
11-19-2006, 04:00 PM
Flaxseed oil is fine to take. For healthy fats along with fish oil supplementation, yuo can try almonds, Peanut Butter(I prefer the taste of Natural PB over the other kinds,) avocados. They are all good sources of heathly fats.
11-28-2006, 01:50 AM
Yeah i take all kinds of fats. Many times when i eat Eggyolks, lean beef,salon or turkey i dotn have to worry abotu supplementing. But i take in Avacodos, Flax oil, Fish oil, Natty Peanut butter, Olive oil(bertilo's light tasting).coconut oil
I read in Men's Fotness i beleive,m with Chris Cook on the front Cover, That the best time to take Flax is before bed. It supposed to increase fatloss. I didnt see the research so if i dont see the research im sketpical but i tryed it last night and i might continue to try it.
11-28-2006, 03:54 AM
11-30-2006, 07:30 AM
I started eating unsalted sunflower seeds several months ago. Just a small handful a day. Then I bought the salted/roasted kind and I'm eating about 5 ounces of them a day because they taste so good.
11-30-2006, 01:57 PM
sunflower seeds are a great source of omega 3 but you need to have a good intake of omega 6 as well, 5 ounces is a lot and to much omega 3 can block the absorption of omega 6 and salt is very bad for blood pressure.Originally Posted by MegaCalf
11-30-2006, 02:46 PM
Thanks, Britishbulldog. I'm taking fish oil capsules but probably not enought to counter the sunflower seeds if they supply too much omega 3 in relation to omega 6. Yeah, the salt can be bad so I'll have to cut back or get unsalted. I usually don't eat salty foods and because these roasted sunflower seeds taste so good I may be overdoing it. I started eating the roasted salty ones because the I wasn't eating enough unsalted/raw ones and now.....Originally Posted by brittishbulldog
12-01-2006, 05:22 PM
Sunflower seeds are a great source of n6 not n3
most north american diets are in excess of n6 in comparison to n3. I think the Ideal ratio is 2:1 of n6:n3
Any roasted seed or nut, ususally has an impact on the EFA.
12-02-2006, 09:33 AM
12-03-2006, 08:06 AM
12-04-2006, 03:30 AM
what is n6 and n3 and are these realy needed in a healthy lifestyle or do we consume them though other foods, and what foods?
12-04-2006, 07:56 AM
12-08-2006, 02:43 AM
Rumor has it that too much flax seed oil might be associated with prostate issues. Just to be on the safe side, I only take two capsules a day.
Fish oil, on the other hand - I take one capsule every time I eat something.
But just to provide some fat to the body, I wouldn't use flax or fish. Olive oil, avocado, peanut butter - all of these are good "regular fat" sources.
12-08-2006, 03:26 AM
Don't really now if you can have too much. I imagine that too much of anything isn't really that good for you, but how much Flax are you taking that would be considered too much?Originally Posted by jaydee
I also was wondering if you could take too much fish oil. Everyday regularly I take at least 9-10 of them. I wonder if thats too much sometimes as well.
12-08-2006, 07:41 AM
Yes you can take too much Fish oil.
9-10 caps a day should be fine.
Excess fish oil supplementation causes blood thinning, and could impact glucose levels.
12-08-2006, 12:34 PM
There is an oil blend, called (something like) Udo's Choice, that is supposed to provide EFAs in the right ratios. I have a homebrew recipe somewhere, and I think it amounts to mixing only two oild together - but that it just my recollection and make not be right. I'll see if I can find it.
12-09-2006, 07:51 AM
Udo's is great supp. Assuming you have your diet in check.
Most have quite a bit more n6 in there diet, there for supplementing with n3 is beneficial to get that ratio of n6:n3 back closer to 2:1 or around there
12-11-2006, 12:10 AM
12-11-2006, 07:12 AM
I can't find any studies breaking down the doses with the quick search I did, but I see no reason in more than 10 fish oil caps a day.
12-12-2006, 12:18 PM
12-12-2006, 12:23 PM
Here's the fish oil part of Poliquin's article:
The Single Best Supplement
Q: What's one supplement that every athlete, weekend warrior, and basically any active person should be taking daily?
A: Fish oil. I was first introduced to fish oil twelve years ago by my friend Mauro DiPasquale. I was over at his house and he had fish oil on the counter. I asked him what he used it for and he said, "Charles, this is the most important supplement ever."
He told me to go to Medline and punch in any disease known to man and the words "fish oil" beside it. He challenged me to find a study that didn't show how fish oil could benefit in the treatment of any disease. I gave up after 86 studies!
Why is it so beneficial? It's in our genes. Humans used to consume 300-400 grams of omega-3s per week. If we consume more than two grams a day now it's considered a lot.
There was a study published four years ago that showed that if the US government issued three grams of fish oil per day to American citizens, then the amount of cancer and heart disease would go down by 50% within one year. Most readers don't care about cancer and heart disease, but they may care about this: the biggest limiting factor in naturally training people to getting lean and adding muscle is the consumption (or lack thereof) of omega-3s.
Looking at the body structure of cavemen, they had a lot of muscle mass compared to modern man. They got their omega-3s through the meats they ate. Now, they often ate what the predators left. For example, a lion will eat an antelope from the gut on, so what's left is the skull and long bones. Primitive man would break the skull open and eat the brains. Brains are 60% fat, and 60% of that is DHA, the omega-3. What they've found is that the more brain-sucking was going in those populations, the faster the IQ went up.
"I've lost my appetite."
Primitive man would also break the bones of the prey and suck the marrow, also rich in omega-3, DHA particularly. DHA is the omega-3 most responsible for brain development while EPA is most associated with reducing inflammation.
My athletes would often recognize each other when sitting around a table because those I'd be training would break out the fish oil during the meal. That's how I got the nickname "the fish oil guy" among athletes. But that's also how I get people so lean so fast.
Anyone who wants to put on muscle and lose fat should be on 30-45 grams of fish oil per day. That's just three tablespoons of fish oil. It would be a pain in the ass with capsules though because that's around 45 capsules per day, but it's easy with a straight oil.
Flameout is also a great product. I like the addition of CLA to the EPA and DHA because most of the population is deficient in CLA. When I travel abroad I bring four or five bottles of Flameout instead of my liquid fish oil and take four or five capsules a day.
For those of us interested in positively and optimally altering body composition and maximizing our training efforts, fish oils offer thirteen possible advantages:
1. Cell membrane health: EPA and DHA insure that cell membranes remain healthy. This means that the membranes are flexible and contain larger numbers of insulin receptors that are more receptive and responsive to circulating insulin. This results in decreased fat storage in the adipocytes (fat cells).
2. Fish oils turn on the lipolytic genes (fat burning genes).
3. Fish oils turn off the lipogenic genes (fat storage genes).
4. Fish oils diminish C-reactive proteins, a newly identified risk factor associated with various inflammatory diseases, including atherosclerosis, angina, coronary heart disease, heart attack, stroke, congestive heart failure, and diabetes. The DHA fraction of the fish oil seems to be one most responsible for that protective effect. DHA also has the best ability to reduce blood pressure.
5. Increase utilization of fat stores from the adipocytes.
6. Preferential utilization for energy production once stored in the adipocytes.
7. Reduced inflammation from physical training.
8. Pain management from the reduced inflammation.
9. EPA regulates blood supply to the brain which is essential in maintaining focus in weight training sessions. DHA is important in brain membranes, memory, and cognitive function.
10. Fish oils increase serotonin levels (the happy neurotransmitter). Therefore, fish oils will decrease incidence of depression, anxiety, panic attack, and reduce carbohydrate cravings.
11. Fish oils will improve your cardiovascular risk profile by lowering VLDL, triglycerides, homocysteine, fibrinogen, and increasing HDL levels. Combining fish oils with plant sterols will improve lipid levels even more than either alone.
12. Fish oils can also decrease blood pressure by several mechanisms. These include increases in the vasodilatory compound, nitric oxide, reducing vascular inflammation, blocking the constrictive elements in the vascular wall such as the calcium channels reducing blood viscosity, and inhibiting a blood vessel constrictor (thromboxane). Lipoprotein (a) is another CVD predictor that can be lowered by fish oils (a 19% reduction was seen with natural, stable fish oils and just 4% with a highly purified fish oil).
13. Fish oils are a great stress fighter. Supplementation with n-3 fatty acids inhibits the adrenal activation of steroids, aldosterone, epinephrine, and norepinephrine (catecholamines) elicited by a mental stress, apparently through effects exerted at the level of the central nervous system. Therefore, for the same amount of stress, one will produce fewer stress hormones if consuming fish oils on a regular basis.
In short, fish oil is my number one supplement recommendation!
12-12-2006, 04:28 PM
45 capsules a day is a ridiculously high amount to recommend.
Check issues of blood thinning and problems with clotting. Also check insulin with high dose fish oil.
As for how much n3 our ancestors ate I am not sure, but that isn't really the issue. Our ancestors, relied on balanced fat diet with n6:n3 being close to 1:1 compared to our 20:1 in western culture now a days.
Our food sources are farmed animals, have crappier nutrient profiles. More Saturated Fats less n3s.
12-13-2006, 06:47 AM
Good information. I think im going to try out the 30 -45 gram fish oil diet per day for two weeks. I might go longer i just want to see what its like. I used to take twenty fish capsules a day. you can read that in my at the beginning of my thread
My Quest for a sixpack.
Btw some of the pictures i posted on there have screwed up. esp the first pictures. The Ones on page four and five are working.
12-14-2006, 06:13 PM
That much fish oil supp can compromise your immune response. I personally wouldn't exceed 6g. For general health, as little as 1-2g/d is fine. People tend to put too much emphasis on a single agent (like fish oil), which in the big picture of nutrition only contributes to a fraction of a percent. Just because some is good, doesn't mean more is better.Originally Posted by smeton_yea
12-15-2006, 12:31 AM
You might be right Alan Aragon, then again you might be wrong. Im willing to try anything to see if it works. I want results peroid. I know high Epa is great for muscle and ast has a supplement out now that has has amounts of Epa conatined in Myo-something. Charles Polquin is the one who recommends to consume 30-35 grams of fish oil per day to burn fat and build muscle. Why dont you and him put your research together and debate. You could be wrong you know and you could be right. I want the FACTS!Originally Posted by alan aragon
12-15-2006, 02:01 AM
Poliquin has a reputation amongst us nutrition professionals for being rather "out there". I have built a reputation for being rather "in there". You can make whatever choice you want as far as who to listen to. I don't make any claims without research backing it up. On that you can bet your sweet ass.Originally Posted by smeton_yea
12-15-2006, 02:07 AM
Got any research to back up your claims?Originally Posted by alan aragon
Ive heard too much fish oil can cause blood thinnign but again thats not fact So many rumors. Ive also heard too much fish oil will make you look a lot younger.
12-15-2006, 02:26 AM
Repost of mine from another thread:
Not sure how many of you have noticed a recent trend of "flax bashing" based around its low conversion rate to EPA/DHA. Lately I've heard lots of folks advocate the abandoning of flax in favor of fish oil. FYI, fish oil is not the holy grail of health perfection that many have been marketed to believe.
Although ALA from flax oil has poor conversion to EPA/DHA, flax still has multiple potential health benefits:
Health aspects of partially defatted flaxseed, including effects on serum lipids, oxidative measures, and ex vivo androgen and progestin activity: a controlled crossover trial -- Jenkins et al. 69 (3): 395 -- American Journal of Clinical Nutrition
On the potential downside of fish oil for geezers, EPA has been observed to decrease natural killer cell (NK) activity in elderly subjects, which has negative immune implications. ALA from flax was not seen to have any decreasing effect on NK:
Dietary supplementation with eicosapentaenoic acid, but not with other long-chain n-3 or n-6 polyunsaturated fatty acids, decreases natural killer cell activity in healthy subjects aged >55 y -- Thies et al. 73 (3): 539 -- American Journal of Clinical Nutrition
Here's some negative immune potential from DHA suppressing T-lymphocyte activation:
Effects of oils rich in eicosapentaenoic and docosahexaenoic acids on immune cell composition and function in healthy humans -- Kew et al. 79 (4): 674 -- American Journal of Clinical Nutrition
More negative effects on immune response.. EPA suppresses prostaglandin-E2 in young subjects, and decreases neutrophil respiratory activity in older subjects:
This is not to blanketly counter-bash the fish oil proponents though. Having both flaxseed & fish oil in your diet is probably a good idea, in moderate amounts. Both have their unique benefits. If not exceeding target fat grams is an issue, these need not be taken on the same days. Rotational dosing through the week is fine; our bodies don't work on a 24-hr clock.
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