Magic carnosine

**alguard** · 10-16-2006, 01:47 AM

Every one knows that carnosine is the next best thing so ill skip the details on how it works, the only issue is oral absorbtion. After carefull analysis the only logical way is to inject carnosine into a local site of that particulary bodypart being exercised. Now, has anyone tried this method and if so does it work, how much needs to be injected, does it need to be injected every day, what is the half-life of injectable carnosine lastly is there any easier method or a long systematic acting form of injectable carnosine.
The only updated research I have encountered is mega dosing on alanine or beta alanine. Is this the future supplement next to creatine? :bb:

**cable626** · 10-16-2006, 02:08 AM

hey, there used to be a board sponsor that sold l-carnosine injectable. Only thing I remember (based on customer reviews) is that it stings after injecting.
Basically increases in strength were seen immediately.

Do a search, see if anything pops up. report back!

**alguard** · 10-16-2006, 02:20 AM

Thanks for the reply. Did it need to be injected at the local site or was strength noticed as a systematic response throughout all the body?

**Caged** · 10-21-2006, 02:23 PM

Injections into muscle tissue shouldn't hurt. I'd use the Z-track method that health professionals use... pull the skin to one side, jab it into your preferred muscle, then inject and release the skin.

Supposedly muscles have less nerves so you can inject the worst chemicals in there with less discomfort.

**Ubiquitous** · 10-21-2006, 02:52 PM

I did it a number of times, I couldn't tell if my strength increases were a placebo effect or not. I still have some but my interest was put to the wayside. Maybe I'll dig it up and start pinning it again.

Poloquin seems to dig it.

I'm at a loss as to why you reference the Z-track method in regards to pain Caged (as it is employed to keep the depot from initially leaking back up into adipose/out of the site immediately after injecting).. but whatever you feel is a contribution I guess.

**Iron Warrior** · 10-21-2006, 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by Caged

Injections into muscle tissue shouldn't hurt. I'd use the Z-track method that health professionals use... pull the skin to one side, jab it into your preferred muscle, then inject and release the skin.

Supposedly muscles have less nerves so you can inject the worst chemicals in there with less discomfort.

I didn't really notice a difference in pain from z-track vs. traditional injection techniques. I never used prop though and all my stuff was pretty painless.

As far as carnosine goes, I've heard mixed reviews and I don't think it's worth to inject it unless it's a hormone

You can boost your carnosine levels by ingesting l-histidine and beta-alanine

These were key ingredient in MAN's Body Octane, which I thought was okay but overpriced.

**dsade** · 10-21-2006, 05:38 PM

A supplier listed acetyl-L Carnosine, and I have requested samples to test. Maybe it will make it more worth it to supplement carnosine.

**Grunt76** · 10-21-2006, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by dsade

A supplier listed acetyl-L Carnosine, and I have requested samples to test. Maybe it will make it more worth it to supplement carnosine.

An orally-absorbable version woulk kick serious butt.

**dsade** · 10-21-2006, 09:38 PM

Originally Posted by Grunt76

An orally-absorbable version woulk kick serious butt.

Can you either keep this bumped or post a request on the Product Request thread in the NP forum?

I don't want to forget about this.

**Iron Warrior** · 10-22-2006, 02:25 AM

BUMP for Dsade's request.

**Ubiquitous** · 10-22-2006, 02:31 AM

that's it, screw you guys, I'm pinning it again.

**Iron Warrior** · 10-22-2006, 02:37 AM

Originally Posted by Ubiquitous

that's it, screw you guys, I'm pinning it again.

Might stack well with IGF-1 between cycles

**Ubiquitous** · 10-22-2006, 02:45 AM

you're picking up what I'm laying down. Maintaining strength in between is that psychological obstacle that buries many.

**Grunt76** · 10-22-2006, 09:26 PM

We got us some smart athletes on here.

**juggernaut333** · 10-22-2006, 09:55 PM

Originally Posted by Grunt76

An orally-absorbable version woulk kick serious butt.

been takin a gram a day for a while now for protection against glycation.i didnt realize it was poor oral bio.
how bad is it?
i dont have a problem injecting if this is the case.i can add it to my pin full of methyl b12 sterile SOD solution.

**Iron Warrior** · 10-22-2006, 11:00 PM

Originally Posted by juggernaut333

been takin a gram a day for a while now for protection against glycation.i didnt realize it was poor oral bio.
how bad is it?
i dont have a problem injecting if this is the case.i can add it to my pin full of methyl b12 sterile SOD solution.

Yeah good point juggs. L-Carnosine is not as effective as a combo of L-Histidine & beta-alanine. Good thing that you mentioned glycation, that may be one of the big anti-aging breaktrhoughs. Maybe Dsade can get Sam to start a histidine & beta-alanine stack offer

**dsade** · 10-23-2006, 01:04 AM

Originally Posted by Iron Warrior

Yeah good point juggs. L-Carnosine is not as effective as a combo of L-Histidine & beta-alanine. Good thing that you mentioned glycation, that may be one of the big anti-aging breaktrhoughs. Maybe Dsade can get Sam to start a histidine & beta-alanine stack offer

We have the beta-alanine already, but the Histidine varies greatly in quality and price.

Let me see what I can do.

**ersatz** · 10-23-2006, 02:37 AM

My experiences with carno is that it is effective IM or even subq. If you're feeling particularly daring try injecting it in your lips. Fast assimilation into blood stream and systematic effect.

Orally it's not effective due to poor bioavailability. I would think that it would be broken back into hist and b-ala and absorbed whereby it's transfered into msucle and reformed into carno. But this doesn't seem to be the case for whatever reason.

Histidine is present in muscle so it's not necessary to supplement with when trying to increase carno levels. B-ala and the enzyme forming carno are the rate limiting factors.

Problem with beta-alanine is several fold. First it can cause a niacin like flush which can affect preworkout usage. Second it uses the same transport pathway into the cell as taurine. Carnosine uses another pathway so no possible conflict. This isn't to say BA supplementation will lead to taurine deficiency but it probably isn't a good idea to take both simultaneously. Few if any studies showing ba to protect against glycation. While histidine and conversion enzyme exist in sufficient quantities to ensure conversion to carno in muscle tissue the same does not hold true for other tissues.

Carnosine OTOH doesn't require conversion and thus offers protection against glycation. It's also doesn't induce flushing but has poor oral bio and is quite a bit more expensive.

I would not mix the carno in with your SOD solution as it doesn't stay in soln for long. You can ask Animal his thoughts on adding carno but I don't think he recommends it either.

Now, if there's an orally bioavailable form of carnosine I would be interested in giving it a try.

**dsade** · 10-23-2006, 07:47 AM

This subject definitely has me intrigued, as my Ex-wife is doing her Master's studies (and works with) autistic children. Carnosine (and yes, not BA/Hist) has shown some major effectiveness in treating autism.

Let me bring in some of my engineers to get on this, for sure.

**Mach .78** · 10-25-2006, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by Iron Warrior

Might stack well with IGF-1 between cycles

Yea, but aren't you supposed to pin l-carnosine pre-workout and igf-1 postworkout? Waste of pins I say. Anyone care to comment on this?

**Ubiquitous** · 10-25-2006, 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by Mach .78

Yea, but aren't you supposed to pin l-carnosine pre-workout and igf-1 postworkout? Waste of pins I say. Anyone care to comment on this?

Yeah, I have a comment.

Pins are cheap.

**Mach .78** · 10-25-2006, 06:18 PM

Ubi, you are a pin cushion.

**dirtysouthmuscl** · 10-25-2006, 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by dsade

We have the beta-alanine already, but the Histidine varies greatly in quality and price.

Let me see what I can do.

Put me on the list , Im interested if you get them both.

**Ubiquitous** · 10-25-2006, 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by Mach .78

Ubi, you are a pin cushion.

yeah but 29g feels like a lover's touch these days. Actually they feel like nothing..

If they felt like a lover's touch I'd be a pin cushion for real.

**Grunt76** · 10-26-2006, 01:55 AM

Originally Posted by Ubiquitous

yeah but 29g feels like a lover's touch these days. Actually they feel like nothing..

If they felt like a lover's touch I'd be a pin cushion for real.

Feel like NOTHING is so true. Most of the time I actually can't feel any sting at all. Like a mosquito bite: you have to be looking to know there's something going on.

**bioman** · 10-26-2006, 02:52 PM

An ethyl-ester carnosine would be stellar. Make it so!

**dsade** · 10-26-2006, 03:14 PM

Depends on the affinity, I suppose. Initially I am curious about the neural effects, but I suppose an ester (though I have another in mind) would be effective in muscle.

**juggernaut333** · 10-26-2006, 09:07 PM

Originally Posted by Iron Warrior

Yeah good point juggs. L-Carnosine is not as effective as a combo of L-Histidine & beta-alanine. Good thing that you mentioned glycation, that may be one of the big anti-aging breaktrhoughs. Maybe Dsade can get Sam to start a histidine & beta-alanine stack offer

ive seen those mentioned but honestly not familiar with those two.for glutath. boosting?at what dosing?ill check em out and do a search too

the glycation..its definately one of the big breakthrus bro.glycation is at least partially responsible for alzheimers and other cognitive degenerative diseases.carnosine seems to be one of the kings of controlling this garbage.

**juggernaut333** · 10-26-2006, 09:18 PM

real good post,thanks
so an inject carnosine would have to be made in verys mall batches?how long are we talkin will it stay in solution?

so histidine in what dosages then for our purposes?

i still think it good to take the carn. orally right now till something better evolves.i just wonder what the % is

Originally Posted by ersatz

My experiences with carno is that it is effective IM or even subq. If you're feeling particularly daring try injecting it in your lips. Fast assimilation into blood stream and systematic effect.

Orally it's not effective due to poor bioavailability. I would think that it would be broken back into hist and b-ala and absorbed whereby it's transfered into msucle and reformed into carno. But this doesn't seem to be the case for whatever reason.

Histidine is present in muscle so it's not necessary to supplement with when trying to increase carno levels. B-ala and the enzyme forming carno are the rate limiting factors.

Problem with beta-alanine is several fold. First it can cause a niacin like flush which can affect preworkout usage. Second it uses the same transport pathway into the cell as taurine. Carnosine uses another pathway so no possible conflict. This isn't to say BA supplementation will lead to taurine deficiency but it probably isn't a good idea to take both simultaneously. Few if any studies showing ba to protect against glycation. While histidine and conversion enzyme exist in sufficient quantities to ensure conversion to carno in muscle tissue the same does not hold true for other tissues.

Carnosine OTOH doesn't require conversion and thus offers protection against glycation. It's also doesn't induce flushing but has poor oral bio and is quite a bit more expensive.

I would not mix the carno in with your SOD solution as it doesn't stay in soln for long. You can ask Animal his thoughts on adding carno but I don't think he recommends it either.

Now, if there's an orally bioavailable form of carnosine I would be interested in giving it a try.

**Ubiquitous** · 10-26-2006, 10:50 PM

Originally Posted by juggernaut333

i still think it good to take the carn. orally right now till something better evolves.i just wonder what the % is

Juggies.. Juggies!!! First of all I miss you..

Injectable is better than oral, and it's here already my friend.. **** I have some right here beside me. It's here cousin... the future is already here. lol

and I'm backing out now.

**juggernaut333** · 10-27-2006, 02:38 PM

yeah ubi,been wondering wtf happened to u man?glad to see u active here at least.
u have it in solution is this a homebrew concoction or what?in one of the above posts someone mentions its not to stable for long periods in solution.how do u work it?

**Ubiquitous** · 10-27-2006, 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by juggernaut333

yeah ubi,been wondering wtf happened to u man?glad to see u active here at least.
u have it in solution is this a homebrew concoction or what?in one of the above posts someone mentions its not to stable for long periods in solution.how do u work it?

I jumped off the boards after that sketchy DD crap that happened that sent ripples throughout. I figured I'd concentrate on my new wife, give up admin and modship, and just be regular Ubi.. kind of like when Superman decided to give up his powers... but less disparaging. lol

Re: Carnosine, I bought it from a board sponsor that used to be here I think.. or maybe not. I forget.. Still holding nice though, don't know the cosolvents, but the carrier is oil.

**ersatz** · 10-27-2006, 11:01 PM

How much are you pinning with the oil soln? Water based solns aren't ideal for Carnosine as it tends to crash in 12 hours.

L-hisitidine supplementation is superflous so don't bother sourcing it. Ethyl esterfication may work at elast for increasing msucle concentrations of carno. But beta-alanine already does this sufficiently and is relatively cheap. As such I so no reason to pursue increasing carno in muscles. Now an orally bioavailable version to prevent glycation and one that could cross the bbb would be very promising.

**Iron Warrior** · 10-29-2006, 01:29 AM

Originally Posted by Ubiquitous

Yeah, I have a comment.

Pins are cheap.

****in aye they're so cheap they make condoms feel expensive LOL

**northern** · 10-29-2006, 02:36 AM

I tried Injectable Carnosine (still have 2 btls. Muscle Research carries it Hope they are still a board sponsor). I would inject between 1-3 cc's (300-900mg) bilaterally into biceps, triceps, shoulders and to tell you the truth cant remember if I noticed much. But I think it did help my endurance i.e. less of a burn especially on biceps but not really anywhere else I think.

**juggernaut333** · 10-29-2006, 03:26 PM

i hear ya,thats good to know.

so it is stable in an oil solution then,but not water.how do dosages correlate to this then?as im still wondering what % the oral is absorbed ...anyone have a solid number?5,30,70,5 ???

if your looking for what..1-2 gram per day for anti-glycation.i just am wondering how much total oral would be needed to achieve this.with inject of course i would imagine its full %%

Originally Posted by Ubiquitous

I jumped off the boards after that sketchy DD crap that happened that sent ripples throughout. I figured I'd concentrate on my new wife, give up admin and modship, and just be regular Ubi.. kind of like when Superman decided to give up his powers... but less disparaging. lol

Re: Carnosine, I bought it from a board sponsor that used to be here I think.. or maybe not. I forget.. Still holding nice though, don't know the cosolvents, but the carrier is oil.

Magic carnosine

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