question about essential fats
10-07-2006 10:46 PM
question about essential fats
i currently take flax seed. does flax seed provide me with all my essential fatty acids or do i also need to take fish oil
10-08-2006 12:10 AM
i would still take fish oil. i believe flax doesnt convert much to epa or dha
10-08-2006 01:58 PM
The rate of conversion is very low.
10-08-2006 02:21 PM
i did some research and u guys are right. imma go buy some fish oil
10-08-2006 02:26 PM
Running with the Big Boys
Could someone please enlighten me as to why most people don't eat the actual fatty fish anymore? I eat salmon about every other day and I try to eat yellowfin steaks at least once a week. With all of the whole-food preaching that we all do, why is it that fatty fish is not on the list as essential protein sources?
10-08-2006 02:40 PM
Can you tell us exactly how much fat and or epa/dha you consume when using a whole food source for efa?
I eat a lot of fish, yet I know how much epa/dha I get from supplementing with fishoil.
10-08-2006 02:42 PM
You only need maybe 3 to 5 grams of fish oil at most.
Flax is a great source of Omega 3's.
10-08-2006 02:45 PM
It is the epa/dha that is important. SO depending upon the concentration doses can vary. I shoot for 3-5g of epa/dha. Thats just me.
10-08-2006 03:05 PM
If you eat salmon and tuna, that's more than perfect and ideal. I usually consume between 2-6g of fish oil depending on my diet. Fish oil at 2g or sometimes even less can have dramtic effects in your triglyceride levels and on LDL, although not as significant. However, at higher doses, ~6-10g/day is very useful for its anti-inflammatory effects.
10-08-2006 03:17 PM
That's not what Bobo told me, B.
10-08-2006 03:28 PM
For me, I eat trace amounts of fats in my whole foods. So, I have very little fat in my diet unless I supplement with F/O and EVOO. So for me to eat anywhere around 10-15g/d of fishoil [@25% epa/dha] and 30-45g of fat from EVOO is the norm.
Is less F/O needed to reap the benefits? Sure.
10-08-2006 03:57 PM
Yeah - I think ole Clownie recommended no more than 3/4 grams of fish oil per day.
10-08-2006 04:04 PM
Fish oil? Flaxseed Oil? What's that? lol You don't need that! You don't even need protein! I like to eat doughnuts for my essential fat. It has lots of fat! Way more than 3-5grams in a box of doughnuts! What's this EPA and DHA??? If it's Extra Plump Apple fritters and Delicious Hot Apple pie than count me in! I take lots of that in my diet. In fact, it's a staple! You see, sugar is a simple carbohydrate and it will help your muscles to recover after vigorous exercise. I figure if I'm picking up lots of heavy food all day, I need lots of sugar. It helps me grow by keeping my muscles fresh for the next meal.
See, you don't need all that fish oil and flaxseed oil and whey protein and blah blah blah to get big. Take it from me, you can get HUGE just by eating doughnuts, apple fritters, apple pies, and lots of chocolate!!! You don't even have to lift weights! Good luck .
10-08-2006 04:57 PM
Don't misunderstand me. As I said 2-6g/day should be enough for everybody but the dosage will depend on the diet. There are also studies supporting higher doses for obtaining anti-inflammatory effects, actually comparing it will NSAID's. However, Too much DHA in the body will actually cause the opposite, will cause inflammation and can hinder your inmune defenses. This is also well documented.
I guess that is the reason, Flaxseed oil is a better choice for meeting your macronutrient needs. I would say for most people, consuming flax oil to meet your macronutrient goals together with 2g of fish oil is good, but it will depend on your diet.
10-08-2006 05:05 PM
I do 3g of each over the course of a day.
10-08-2006 10:52 PM
Good post William.
That's exactly what the Clown told me a few years ago.
10-08-2006 11:36 PM
10-09-2006 02:37 PM
10-09-2006 03:25 PM
Repost of mine from another thread:
Not sure how many of you have noticed a recent trend of "flax bashing" based around its low conversion rate to EPA/DHA. Lately I've heard lots of folks advocate the abandoning of flax in favor of fish oil. FYI, fish oil is not the holy grail of health perfection that many have been marketed to believe.
Although ALA from flax oil has poor conversion to EPA/DHA, flax still has multiple potential health benefits: Health aspects of partially defatted flaxseed, including effects on serum lipids, oxidative measures, and ex vivo androgen and progestin activity: a controlled crossover trial -- Jenkins et al. 69 (3): 395 -- American Journal of Clinical Nutrition
On the potential downside of fish oil for geezers, EPA has been observed to decrease natural killer cell (NK) activity in elderly subjects, which has negative immune implications. ALA from flax was not seen to have any decreasing effect on NK: Dietary supplementation with eicosapentaenoic acid, but not with other long-chain n-3 or n-6 polyunsaturated fatty acids, decreases natural killer cell activity in healthy subjects aged >55 y -- Thies et al. 73 (3): 539 -- American Journal of Clinical Nutrition
Here's some negative immune potential from DHA suppressing T-lymphocyte activation: Effects of oils rich in eicosapentaenoic and docosahexaenoic acids on immune cell composition and function in healthy humans -- Kew et al. 79 (4): 674 -- American Journal of Clinical Nutrition
More negative effects on immune response.. EPA suppresses prostaglandin-E2 in young subjects, and decreases neutrophil respiratory activity in older subjects: Entrez PubMed
This is not to blanketly counter-bash the fish oil proponents though. Having both flaxseed & fish oil in your diet is probably a good idea, in moderate amounts. Both have their unique benefits. If not exceeding target fat grams is an issue, these need not be taken on the same days. Rotational dosing through the week is fine; our bodies don't work on a 24-hr clock.
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