need help with liver issue
- 07-10-2006, 01:29 PM
need help with liver issue
I need some advices from a doctor maybe..if there is such person..or at least someone who really knows some medicine.
I have recently been diagnosed with non-alcooholic fatty liver and lazy bile. The doctor gave me some medicines but after two weeks, it seems I still have some pains in the right side just where the liver is.
She also told me I should eat less protein and take care with the supplements I am taking at the moment, including vitamins, minerals and carnitine. I really dont know why this is hapening to me...I dont take anything liver stressful at the moment....I used some Superdrol at the beginning of the year but with proper liver protection.
I am in such a bad mood because of this health problem, I dont feel like doing anything and I am mentally down.
Please give me an advice...should I take a break, should I use some liver supplements, any advice is welcome!
Thank you very much!
- 07-10-2006, 05:46 PM
Well whatever you do NO MORE steroids or anabolics. Also try to stay away from pain killers such as ibeprofen, etc.
Anabolic Innovations offers Cycle Support, which contains a LOT of anti-oxidants as well as liver/heart/prostate/cholesterol support supplements.
You can even ask CROWLER (the owner) if he would leave the red yeast rice out for you since it is a mild statin and you are looking for more of the liver support.
It contains very good dosages of milk thistle and NAC, however, and there are many studies that can be found on pubmed supporting them as glutathione promoters, which also promoste a healthy liver. There are also studies that have been done on people who have serious cirhossis (sp?) and milk thistle decreased the death rate very significantly in those who took it. Cycle Support comes out to about $1.09 per day .
- 07-10-2006, 06:34 PM
Stay away from any uneeded pills as they are stressful on the liver. Especially pain killers like LMD said. Alcohol, steroids/PH's anything of that nature. The good thing is that even without whey protein and creatine etc you can still achieve a great build. Don't let it get you down. use this obsticle as your motivation and direction to work twice as hard and still get your goals
07-10-2006, 06:40 PM
Do some research on Liv-52. It has numerous studies showing not only improvment of liver values, but in some cases reversal of fatty liver disease and even cirrohsis.
07-10-2006, 08:40 PM
Remarc - what tests did your DR run - full blood profile?? ultra sound?? I think if it were me Id want to know more about the diagnosis - try not to worry so much til you find out more details.
And, Lake - I read most of what you write...there is one thing I dont understand...
How can you only be 22 years old?? You are one smart "hombre"
07-10-2006, 08:47 PM
Haha thanks bro. A lot of research and interest man. It only takes the desire, the rest is just trying to put it all together .Originally Posted by AGELESS
And I have seen most of the pictures you post and how can you be your age and look so DAMN JACKED lol. I wish I could look like that NOW let alone at your age my friend, damn good work!!!
07-10-2006, 09:38 PM
No ****...I have neither the intellect nor the physical aspect going...Damn I just depressed myself.
07-11-2006, 12:39 AM
Oh Jay, come'ear and get a hug big guy.
07-11-2006, 12:51 AM
Alright first and foremost....I ain't no friggin doctor, but if u listen to me, u might just thank me later. Good news son....your diagnosis is NOT irriversable, unless u really did something with SD that u shouldn't have, which brings me to the subject of your SD cycle....an area of MAJOR concern! I say this cuz u stated that u cycled SD at the beginning of the year, but that u had proper liver protection. LIVER PROTECTION?....What good is liver protection if it was an improper cycle of METHYLATED ORALS? I'm not sayin u did an improper cycle....I just need to know the facts here. How many weeks did u run SD? What was your dosage per day? Did your PCT include a SERM? Did u have a PCT at all? How long did it last?Originally Posted by remarc
Anyways, about your problem. Look these products up, take them for a few months and I'll bet your doctor will notice a huge difference in your condition with some simple liver tests.
#1. Life Extension / Mega Silymarin with Isosilybin B. this product offers THE BEST LIVER PROTECTION I'VE EVER FOUND. And if anyone can top it, please let me know. Milk Thistle Extract, one capsule = 900mg standardized to 80% (720mg) Silymarin, 30% (270mg) Silibinin, 4.5% (40.5mg) Isosilybin B.
With your condition, try 1 cap AM 1 cap PM for about 3 weeks or so and then drop to one at night.
#2. Beta-Sitosterol with betine hydrochloride. Twice a day.
#3. Ester C 1000mg serving at LEAST 4 times a day.
#4. MRM Grapeseed Extract 120mg. Try first week 2 caps AM 2 caps PM then increase to 3 caps AM, 3 caps PM.
#4. If u've got a juicer, try cucumber, carrot, celery, and beet juice. Try these things that I mentioned as these are ALL products that I take myself and I have used this same protocol for liver detox. Your liver will thank you! And oh yeah....About that SD cycle?
07-11-2006, 01:04 AM
Thanks for reminding me about NAC, completely slipped my mind. Can't remeber anythin bout dosage. Isn't it something like 1-2g a day for liver problems?Originally Posted by LakeMountD
07-11-2006, 01:28 AM
Sorry, forgot to mention....DRINK LOTS OF DISTILLED WATER!Originally Posted by NO HYPE
07-11-2006, 03:37 AM
I would specifically avoid anything containing tylenol/APAP/paracetemol. From what I recall ibuprofen is more taxing to your kidneys.
Himalaya's Liv.52 definitely seems to have some research behind it, though it seems to all be published by the company and/or in indian research pubs.
SAM-E helps raise glutathione, K-RALA is a great anti-oxidant too, but I also wanted to mention a cheap one, Lecithin. Which was not mentioned and can also be also helpful. From what I recall, I think Lecithin particularly for the fatty liver situation.
And definitely the NAC, Milk Thistle, recommendations.
07-11-2006, 03:47 AM
Get a second opinion... question everything.
07-11-2006, 05:47 AM
Originally Posted by somewhatgifted
Yeah right on. He should get multiple opinions! Cuz most of these suggestions are goin to have some research behind them in reguards to directly benefiting the liver. How much and wether u will use them is up to u but your original post indicated a real problem that u needed help with. Look up all this info and u will find a great deal of truth in the matter at hand.
07-11-2006, 07:29 AM
Is Rebound XT or 6-OXO stressful for the liver? How about Propionyl L-carnitine or NOXplode? I need to know which supplements I should avoid except anabolics/designer steroids...Ohh, and my cycle of SD lasted 6 weeks at an average of 30 mg/day? I had proper liver protection.
07-11-2006, 07:57 AM
30mg a day for 6 weeks?...... ........ What was you pct like? and what liver protection did you take?Originally Posted by remarc
07-11-2006, 08:10 AM
Well...i am over 220 lbs and took it the way it was prescribed on the site i bought from
I had Milk thistle, NAC, Green tea, Fish oil, flax, alc and of course vitamins and minerals.
07-11-2006, 08:44 AM
ouch dude i smell a stickie, could you post numbers from your blood work?Originally Posted by remarc
07-11-2006, 08:49 AM
Sounds like another version of me...Not a compliment either
Stay off any **** man. A lot of this stuff is relatively new. It's not worth it. Wait and let your body normalize first.
07-11-2006, 02:29 PM
Funny thing is my blood tests went just fine...except for SGPT were 40 IU but still normal.
Another thing...the doctor told me my bile is "lazy"..and this is the reason of pains in the right side, not the fact that liver is fatty. Now the question: anything I can take for this bile issue? Doctor told me I should eat less protein...I dont know what to do...maybe take in some more aminoacids.
Thank you very much for your help!
07-11-2006, 03:04 PM
Has gallstones been ruled out?.... pulled this off a site.
Like many people, you may have gallstones and not know it. In fact, gallstones — solid deposits of cholesterol or calcium salts that form in your gallbladder or nearby bile ducts — often cause no symptoms and require no treatment. But some people with gallstones will have a gallbladder attack that can cause symptoms such as nausea and an intense, steady ache in their upper middle or upper right abdomen. In some cases, the pain can be severe and intermittent.
Gallstones affect as many as one in 12 Americans. You're at greater risk of developing gallstones if you're older, female or overweight. Rapid weight loss or eating a very low calorie diet also can put you at risk of gallstones.
Complications from gallstones can be serious, and even fatal, if left untreated. Fortunately, treatment is usually straightforward, and newer techniques often allow faster recovery time.
07-11-2006, 06:02 PM
Originally Posted by remarc
Ok, gotta stop the train right here! U cycled SD for a straight six at 30mg a day?....Why didn't u just cut a hole in your stomach, rip your liver out and then stomp on it a few times? Dude....U cycled improperly. No liver supplement or PCT would have stopped that kind of damage from occuring.
07-11-2006, 11:52 PM
You most likely just need time and some good liver products right now. Look at the posts above, take the advice and seek out those products. Get blood work done, drink lots of water and you're going to be fine.
One thing to note... if you're liver values were all fine, I'm not sure I wouldn't seek another opinion. Are you SURE it's your liver and not a strained muscle? If you really had a liver problem, your blood tests would more than likely show something severely out of whack.... do you have a copy of your tests? It'd be helpful at this point. I don't know what "lazy bile" is but with liver values being fine, I'm not in the "freak out" group. I'd suggest another opinion or just waiting a bit. When your liver truly has a problem processing bile, you WILL have raised bilirubin levels, that's the nature of the game. Other liver values to look at would be AST, ALT, etc.
I had jaundice as a newborn. Was fairly bad. To this day I have always had raised bilirubin levels and at times other higher liver values. This is MY baseline though. It's how MY body reacts. I've told that to the doctors before getting blood tests and not once had they thought the levels were super high. I'm above the norm, but not at the level of concern. I still cycle, I still do do orals (though that time is over and done with) but I do it with blood work and am smart about it. that's all you can do.
Ok, it's not about me... sorry. Regardless, keep drinking water, take some liver protectants, go get a second opinion and see how things go. Please keep us updated.
07-12-2006, 06:23 AM
Lazy liver means slow working liver. He needs to find out wether his liver is producing an excess of bile or a lack there of but the truth of the matter is (if his cycle was 6 weeks at 30mg a day) that he did a VERY improper cycle and it would probably be a good idea to tell his doc that when he cycled a methylated, liver stressing oral, that he ingested 1,260mg. That's at least 420mg more than he should have! Sorry if my posts seem too dramatic but this guy needs to know why he is where he is, and never touch this stuff again.Originally Posted by not_big_enuf
07-12-2006, 06:32 AM
If anything, the SD "aggrevated" an existing issue, not caused it.
SDrol at 6wks isn't recommended, but quit acting like its gonna kill him.
Anadrol is PRESCRIBED at 1 to 5 mg/kg (big ass doses) for trials of a MINIMUM of 6 MONTHS!!! Anadrol is the only AAS known to cause liver tumors and it is prescribed at those dosages.
Lets stick to giving this guy help and quit acting like this is BB.com...
07-12-2006, 07:18 AM
I agree. There's no way 6 weeks of SD caused this. People don't just wreck their livers with orals in a few weeks unless their's an underlying issue, sorry. It takes literally years people either years of continuous use of orals or extremely high doses.
Originally Posted by kwyckemynd00
07-12-2006, 08:19 PM
OK. I agree as far as helping him and not *****in at him. Sorry for forget'n where I wuz. No 6 weeks aint gonna kill him. Never said it was. OK so I was a bit dramatic but lets be honest, this isn't a game and steroids aren't either. I let him know that his condition was not irreversible and I gave him good advise as well as everyone else in the forum, but the guy said himself that he didn't know why this was happining to him cuz he used proper liver protection. He didn't even realize the fact that his cycle was incorrect. Hopefully now he knows how incorrect it was. I can't see how u came to the conclusion that the improper cycle of SD, didn't cause the problem. Why do ya think all the people who truly know about SD and it's sides, stick to the protocol? Now as far as oxymetholone goes.... When u said, "prescribed at 1-5mg/kg for a minimum 6 months" I understood your point, but your liver does not have to have tumors to be in bad condition.Originally Posted by kwyckemynd00
07-12-2006, 08:44 PM
Originally Posted by not_big_enuf
There's no way 6 weeks of SD will cause this? Than what WILL 6 weeks of SD do? Why is it common knowledge not to use SD for more than 3-4 weeks. About the "extremely high doses".... Anybody who knows about SD uses 420mg-560mg. His dosage more than doubled that.
07-16-2006, 04:58 PM
Thank you for all the advices, guys! I started some Milk Thistle and Liv52 and feeling better already...I m coming back with a question: Are 6-OXO or Rebound XT very bad for my actual condition? Thanks!
07-16-2006, 05:18 PM
Hey man it's really good to hear that your doin better. I gotta be honest with ya. You really should wait a couple months or at least wait till the doc says that your liver is back to norm. Then you can decide. Using 6-oxo, Rebound, or any other Pro-Test. or AI right now will only jeopardize your situation. Just out of curiousity, why do u want to use them anyway?Originally Posted by remarc
07-17-2006, 09:07 AM
Fatty liver disease can be caused by altered carnitine metabolism. You might want to try 2-3 grams of carnitine/day.
07-17-2006, 10:30 AM
I want to use them to raise my testosteron naturally. I might enter a drug-tested competition in september. I am starting to believe that my condition was due to some digestive problems and gallblader or bile or something like that maybe and not the liver because although ecodiagnosis revealed this fatty liver condition, my enzymes were fine.
And as for the carnitine, funny thing: my doctor said I should use no more than 1.5 grams per day because carnitine is hard on the liver. I had some PLCAR (propyonil l-carnitine) and I discontinued it and I felt it immediately. Do you think this propyonil thing should have caused the problem actually? Because I took carnitine and ALCAR before and I havent had any problem with them.
07-17-2006, 12:28 PM
I am not sure about the PLCAR, but I know that 2 grams/day of carnitine will not be detrimental. It can only help. I have seen this work in clinical situations where patients have fatty liver disease.Originally Posted by remarc
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