- 05-07-2006, 07:51 PM
- 05-07-2006, 08:06 PM
05-07-2006, 08:07 PM
05-08-2006, 01:27 AM
Honestly, I think it's a waste of money. Although, I could be wrong or just want the extra money to spend on other goodies :P
05-08-2006, 05:05 AM
05-08-2006, 09:36 AM
You can get a bag of dextrose for a couple bucks. Much cheaper than any pre-mixed post-workout solution.Originally Posted by Jayhawkk
05-08-2006, 12:18 PM
Keep it low if you are going to use it. Just remember to include the kcals in your daily or weekly numbers and you will be fine. Amounts will vary depending on duration and type of exercise. If you are weight training excess, amounts of calories from simple sugar is not necessary and i would keep it about a 1:1 ratio with protein i.e. 40g Dextrose: 40g Protein.Originally Posted by Tom 185
Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC
05-08-2006, 04:29 PM
I usually just mix my unflavored whey in orange Gatorade for postworkout. I feel 20-30 grams is plenty though.
05-14-2006, 07:14 PM
Originally Posted by DmitryWI
I've read from many respectable nutritionists (I'm mainly at irongmagazine.com) that dextrose works wonders post workout.
Brings back glucose levels quickly allowing the protein to get into the anabolic effect. I used to use oats, but as they are a medium speed digestive carb, I plan on switching to dextrose and another carb source.
From my reading, dextrose sounds awesome PWO.
05-14-2006, 07:35 PM
05-14-2006, 08:07 PM
Ditch the dextrose, get Malto. From now the carbo gain (malto powder) is pretty god damn cheap and has 1g of sugar per 50g of powder. I've used both malto and dex, dex really ****s with my insulin levels (spikes it super high followed by a huge low) and I feel like **** when taking it. I take 25g malto mixed with 6 scoops xtend during workout and I include 50g malto in my pwo shake. I find it to be the optimal source of pwo carbs because it does not fill me up or make me feel like ****, is high gi, and still is complex. I include a cup of fast oats with it and usually it digests fast enough for me to eat a whole food meal about 1 hr later.
05-14-2006, 09:33 PM
This has been debated extensively here. Do a search and you will find a bunch of threads on empty calorie high GI vs whole food low/moderate GI PWO. Here's one: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/bulki...light=dextroseOriginally Posted by Highlanda01602
Dextrose is another word for glucose; found in high concentrations in candy and junk food. If your nutritional regimen factors in junk food, well, more power to you.
05-14-2006, 09:40 PM
I assume you are checking your blood glucose levels with a meter and having a lab determine your insulin levels. What sort of numbers were you getting between the two?Originally Posted by ktw
Why is a high GI polysaccharide superior to a high GI monosaccharide?
05-14-2006, 10:36 PM
i was using my friends blood glucose meter, he is a diabetic, i do not know the rest. i prefer malto because it is a complex carb, i do not get a huge surge in blood glucose levels from it, no headaches, no jitters, etc. I don't dabble in the scientifc aspect of nonsense too much, so you could probably answer that second part yourself if you really wanted to. I believe either on this board or bb.com there are multiple threads about the advantages of malto or complex carbs pwo opposed to dex and simple carbs. I've tried both, one works for me very well, one doesn't. For me, ingesting sugar, or dex, pwo has adverse affects that I do not care for, whereas malto, with a negligable amount of sugar does not. I don't spend 9,000 hours online looking for surveys justifying either, because if you have ever read one of my logs, i am not into bodybuilding, nor do i care about the miniscule advantages one offers over the other, all i know is id rather not feel horrible after ingesting my pwo. During workout, i felt very hypo when consuming dex. I did not have a scientist sitting there probing me to determine this, but I had some of the syptoms of hypoglycemia (I found out what they were from reading multiple slin threads and articles) and it was effecting my lifting in a negative way. I see you have a more points and rep power than me, so was this an honest question or were you just trying to display your scientific superority?
05-14-2006, 11:18 PM
Firstly, I don't consider posting on AM a reputation pissing contest. Passing on and discussing good info is the name of the game so there is no need to get snarky over rep points. Yes I have a scientific background so it is my nature to ask 'why' and I don't feel it unacceptable to ask someone for their sources. I apologize if my blunt questsions came off the wrong way.
The reason I was asking those questions is because I was surprised that switching to malto over dextrose made that big of difference to you. The GI of maltodextrin is approx 90% of dextrose. Regardless if one is complex and the other simple, both end up as glucose in the bloodstream just that one absorbs 10% slower. Of course everybody is slightly different physiologically and it is always helpful to get an idea how differently they react.
05-14-2006, 11:39 PM
Oh, yea, how I didn't think about that. Switch from hi GI to high GI. That will do.Originally Posted by ktw
Really, if it work for you, then I'm so happy for you, But don't tell other people to do so.
05-15-2006, 12:21 AM
Why, I'm not allowed to offer my experience and advice. GI is not the issue really, see the above two posts, for me slower absorption helps with the adverse effects of a large surge in blood glucose levels and the negative sides I was feeling, while basically having the same exact affect nutrionally. I would see this as a reason to reccomend the product.Originally Posted by DmitryWI
I guess members should never reccomend what works for them, using your logic we should not share training routines, supplement dosages, etc.
05-15-2006, 12:24 AM
My reaction was not a positive one, it did make a fairly large difference for me hence my reccomendation to others. Sorry for coming off rude, I thought you were trying to make a joke of my post or something, I was just trying to offer some advice from someone who has tried both multiple times. I also have had a friend who experienced the same sides as myself, so I do not feel the problem is isolated. Counting us two, the 3 bodybuilders at my gym, and the guy that runs the store I buy the malto from, that's 6 people that have had the same experience so I felt it was necessary to share.Originally Posted by Nitrox
Also, if 90grams of carbs absorbed at rate A, and 90 grams of another carb at 1/2 rate a, wouldnt one see a lower net increase in blood glucose levels in the short run? I know all of it will end up in the blood stream, but wouldn't a slower rate of change prevent a drastic surge in glucose levels? It was my understanding that to remedy my problem I would need a product with a slower absorption rate to prevent the massive surge in glucose, which is why i switched to malto.
05-15-2006, 01:25 AM
Yes all that theory seems accurate the only thing is that for all intents and purposes, maltodextrin GI values are comparable to those of dextrose, even though it is a complex carb:Originally Posted by ktw
Supposedly the body has very little difficulty breaking those chemical bonds to produce glucose molecules.
When you previously used dextrose was that combined with oats like you are currently doing with malto? If not, that could be the reason why your symptoms disappeared since the lower GI oats would 'bring down' the net GI value when combined with the malto. Just curious...
05-15-2006, 01:54 AM
Well they are the quick oats, so they actually have a high gi, I use them to add a little density to the shake. I tried the dex with and without the oats, with helped slightly, but still had some of the symptoms. **** I could be an anomaly I don't know. I was not referring to GI having to do with absorption rate but complexity. Also, how do Malto and Dex compare on the Insulin index
05-17-2006, 01:36 AM
My buddy who is in his 3rd year at MSU to be a nutrition specailist has always advocated to me a 2 to 1 carb to protein ration PWO will yield the best results.
Take that for what it's worth, i've been doing that for quite sometime, and it seems to work well for me.
05-17-2006, 02:15 AM
I always do the same, Berardi and about 5 other nutritionists with Phd's reccomend the same ratio, and it works well for me as well.Originally Posted by MakaveliThaDon
05-17-2006, 02:54 AM
I can't find II values for malto. II scores are relatively hard to come by compared to GI scores.Originally Posted by ktw
Personally, I think the whole simple/complex classification of carbs is more or less obsolete. For our purposes the important information is how fast is it absorbed and what type of carb does it yield. Fructose and sucrose are both simple carbs but both are absorbed more slowly than dex/malto and both yield fructose (fructose and glucose from sucrose) which has to be processed in the liver...
Going back to the original topic, if malto/dex works for people then great. What some of the others were suggesting is that the ultra fast absorption of dex is not necessarily a benefit over whole foods.
Remember that even though some of these 'respected nutritionists' have phD's. They are still trying to sell themselves. Which PWO program sounds more marketable: ion-exchange whey protein isolate + 60% maltodextrin/ 40% dextrose OR tuna and rice....
05-17-2006, 04:55 AM
I definately prefer a shake to whole foods, when i switched I actually gained a weight at a faster rate without increasing or decreasing total intake. Was it because of the fast digestion? Who knows, it worked though so I'm sticking with it. I can't explain everything that works for me, it's really weird, but I'm not gunna switch.
05-17-2006, 07:06 AM
It's not. Although, from my experience different people respond differently to various sugars.Originally Posted by Nitrox
Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, feed him for life. Lao Tse 6th century BC
05-17-2006, 03:39 PM
I have an honest question. If you are getting results with doing things one way, and someone else is getting results with another, then why so much hosility? State your reasons, and whatever the other decides to do with that information is up to them. If they blow it off and disagree, then fine. This isn't a debate competition and you can't win.
Ok, i'm off my soapbox
05-17-2006, 03:40 PM
[QUOTE=doggzj] This isn't a debate competition and you can't win. [QUOTE]
Oh I'll win!
What are we argueing about now?
05-18-2006, 01:13 PM
I mainly kept posting to defend myself because someone neg repped me and people seemed to have a problem with what I was saying. Their comment, 'slow absorption' really didn't say what I did wrong by sharing my personal experience, which further proves this board and posts contains posting by egomaniacs who care about how they appear over the internet and can not realize that there could be multiple viewpoints on a subject.
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