[ktw]

Ok, so recently I have been taking in 540g carbs/300 grams protein/90 grams fat a day. I'm currently trying to lean bulk, mainly focusing on strength rather than overall size and weight. Lately, I have felt awful from my diet. I constantly am gagging food down and feeling awful after meals. I train MMA 3 times a week for a few hours, most of which is spent learning new techniques with about the last half hour actually being 5 minute intervaled all out rolling. I also try to get in 20 minutes of jump ropping or 40 minutes of bike riding here and there. In a week total, i do about 5 to 6 hours of cardio along with the 3 hours it takes to complete all 3 days of my WSB program. I understand that with bulking body fat gain is inevitable, but I have been putting it on at an alarming rate. When I didn't know about dieting and was eating nearly all high gi carbs, I didn't put on this much fat. Supposedly I have gone from 12% to 16% in 4 weeks according to caliper measurements. For my needs, I was thinking of toning down the amount of carbs, and increasing the amount of protein and fats to compensate. I saw the results of this guy http://www.midwestbarbell.com/totale...showtopic=1110 and was thinking of doing a similar routine. With 8 to 10 hours of total exercise a week, I would think that 4000 calories would be sufficient to be able to still make decent weight gains, so I wanted to use this as my baseline number. I was planning on lowering the amount of carbs to 350grams, taking in the most around my workout and mma training windows, and spreading the rest during the morning, or in small amounts throughout the day. I was planning on taking in the majority of my carbs pre workout, pwo, and for my pwo meal. The rest would go towards breakfast and the remainder would consist of veggies consumed at every meal. I would like to jack up protein to 400grams, eventually hitting 425. Instead of taking in 6 giant meals like i am now, I want to spread the meals out to 8 times a day. I would like to use John Berardi's macronutrient separation technique as well. Fat would be kept at about 110grams. This would all add up to 3990kcal's a day. When I started bulking after my xmas break, I was seeing very small gains with 400 grams of carbs, then noticed the fat gain as I ramped up carbs. I'm not sure I need to go crazy on them as I do not do a whole lot of activity that greatly depletes glycogen. Anyone have any thoughts on my plan, the link I posted, or on any of John Berardi's macronutrient separation tips?

PS I currently weigh 201 at 16% bodyfat, started my bulk from 192 at 12% a month ago. During that time, strength has gone up at a steady rate. The increase in carbs did not increase the percentages my weights went up, therefore I do not feel carbing up like that had any positive impact on my weight training regimen other than adding fat.

[ktw]

also since I know choice of food is important, i would like to add examples of foods I have been eating
carbs:
steel cut oats
whole grain products
whole grain pasta
lots of broccoli and green beens
occasionally a couple of new potatos

protein:
organic chicken breast
low fat ground beef
turkey breast
flank steak
ground buffalo
whey pwo
cottage cheese +whey prebed or during the day
various types of steak
eggs

fats:
flax oil
fish oil
CLA
fat from omega 3 eggs
almonds and other nuts

I'd also like to add that I cheat maybe once a week or every two weeks at most so I do not attribute any fat gain to not adhering to a strict diet.

[Nitrox]

If you are adding more fat than you would like then you need to back off on calories. Swapping one macronutrient for another is not going to make much of a difference if you are still taking in the same amount of energy.

Im not big on Berardi's mutual carb/fat exclusion philosophy. Muscle likes carbs and protein for growth so why deprive it of what it needs. Just roughly spread your fat intake (20% or whatever) over your meals and be done with it. I raised this point on one his threads over on T-nation and never got a reply...

[bodebldr2000]

My suggestion would be to contact chuck at dietsbychuck.com He can get you on track fast!

[ktw]

Ya I'm a college student and don't have the $$$ to spend on enlisting a dietician right now so I'm trying to do everything myself.

[ktw]

Ok, so if I lower from my current number to about 3700, would I be fine lowering my carbs more than protein? Since weight training isn't glycogen depleting and I don't do endurance activity (mainly intervaled cardio of various sorts) wouldn't I not have to worry about depleting glycogen? I've found through personal experience, altering carbohydrate intake has the biggest total effect on my body comp., so I would prefer to drop it as much as possible without sacrificing strentgh.

[Nitrox]

Firstly, one pound of bodyfat is worth about 3500 kcals, you have put on approx 8 in 4 weeks. That makes 2 lbs per week, suggesting a 1000 kcal daily surplus. Take 500 kcals of the diet and the rate should drop in half at your current bodyweight.

Secondly, the amount of cardio that you are doing may limit your ability to put on lean mass.

I think you are giving carbs a bad rap. IMO given your activity level, carbs should be your highest source of energy. Maybe look at a 30%P/40%C/30%F (or 30/50/20) ratio and just keep your total calories in check. Some guys like the 40/40/20 plan, especially for dieting, but I think it is more protein than necessary on a bulker - IMO 400g of protein at your bodyweight is unecessary, especially if you are on a budget.

[ktw]

i was thinking of reducing carbs to 400 grams, keep protein at 300 grams, stay with about 100 grams of fat and just doing that. That will reduce total cals by 560. It's not that I do a lot of activity, just that it doesn't really qualify as endurance activity like one would think.

[ktw]

also Nitrox, what I was planning was not excluding carbs. If I keep to the numbers listed above, I can still do the separation technique and not deprive myself of carb and protein meals. If I have a meal consisting of about 80 grams of carbs for both pre and post workout, plus carbs at breakfast and during the energy phase at a one to one ratio, thats 260 grams gone and only 140 to go during the rest of the day that I can save for other meals, so it's not like im depriving myself. I could even tack on some extra carbs around breakfast or my pwo workout meal and lower the total for the rest of the day.

[ktw]

Quick question, will I lose a lot in terms of strength gains if I jump down in carbs this much. Going from 540 to 400 or 350 is a pretty big jump and I would like to keep making solid strength gains in the gym while slowing down my fat retention. Would a 40/40/20 ratio with 350g protein, 350 grams carbs and 80 grams fat (comes out to 3500kcal) hamper my strength. That number is down from the 4000ish I was taking in before. Thanks.

[LCSULLA]

So you weight 201 and are taking in about 4000cals? That is way too much, unless your doing some serious triathalon training. Beelz on this board eats about that and weighs about 265lbs.

[ktw]

note that I do do about an hourish of cardio on off days, but its all interval style stuff. we wrestle or roll for like 5 minutes at a time then take a break and repeat, so I don't count it as endurance training. Do you think carb cycling would hurt?

[ktw]

note that I do do about an hourish of cardio on off days, but its all interval style stuff. we wrestle or roll for like 5 minutes at a time then take a break and repeat, so I don't count it as endurance training. Do you think carb cycling would hurt?

[Nitrox]

Originally Posted by LCSULLA

So you weight 201 and are taking in about 4000cals? That is way too much, unless your doing some serious triathalon training. Beelz on this board eats about that and weighs about 265lbs.

Depends on your body type and metabolism. I'm 165lbs, 12-15% bf and I gain about 1-1.5 lbs/week on 3900 calories with a moderate activity level. Ultimately each individual has to pick a starting point and then see what results and modify from there.

[Nitrox]

Originally Posted by ktw

Quick question, will I lose a lot in terms of strength gains if I jump down in carbs this much. Going from 540 to 400 or 350 is a pretty big jump and I would like to keep making solid strength gains in the gym while slowing down my fat retention. Would a 40/40/20 ratio with 350g protein, 350 grams carbs and 80 grams fat (comes out to 3500kcal) hamper my strength. That number is down from the 4000ish I was taking in before. Thanks.

The problem is that you are making two changes here: total calories and total carbs. You probably wont make the same strength gains on 3500 kcals as on 4000, that's just fundamental because you wont be gaining as much mass. You cant have your cake and eat it too...

I can't comment on the carb difference beyond that my body seems to do better with more carbs. Maybe give it a couple weeks and then test drive another ratio and see how you respond.

[ktw]

alright so I'll experiment with the 40/40/20 for a couple weeks and see how that goes. total calories is still 700 above maintanence so I think I should be fine or at least won't lose too much by switching. I'm still 20, so I doubt I won't be making solid gains in the gym just based on my high natural test. levels.

[Beelzebub]

40/40/20 is a great split as long as it's clean food. that's my optimal bulking diet, while leaning out is 45/45/10-ish, carbs dropping slowly over time or cycling.