Training Hard on Ketogenic / Zero Carb Diets

AlexPowell

AlexPowell

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Hi Everyone,
I'd like to share a few experiences here that I have had with zero carb dieting and training intensity. One of the biggest issues I see with ketogenic or zero carb diets (I'll call it "keto" from now) is that they struggle to really train hard.

I have a hypothesis for this. I'm not saying that what I'm about to say is gospel and it might not even be correct, but it's an educated guess based on my own experiences and doing massive amounts of reading on the subject.

So why do people hit the wall on keto and why can they not train at a very high intensity for very long at all? My guess is liver and muscle glycogen running out and this goes well with people's observations of them getting flat and smaller as they hit the wall. What do they do next? Normally they cycle carbs.

There are two main ways to cycle carbs on the ketogenic diet. The first is to eat carbs once a week and the other is eating them around training time. The internet is full of information that says you have to eat carbohydrate at some point on a keto diet in order to keep the weights heavy and the intensity high!

I'll take a step back to explain the body's energy systems. When you exercise is has the choice of burning "more glucose", "more fatty acids" or "more ketones". When you eat carbohydrate on the ketogenic diet your body will switch to wanting to burn "more glucose". It will happily keep consuming more glucose in the form of your glycogen as you exercise.

This is covered in "The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate" by Phinney. I think that if you choose to supply your body with carbohydrate on the ketogenic diet your body will continue to use your glycogen stores as energy during exercise.

If you avoid carbohydrate then you move from "more glucose" to "more ketones" and glycogen is spared. The main thing though people seem to think that switching between modes is quick and easy. Like you can eat 30g of sugar and work out and be back in "more ketone" mode. I don't believe that's true and looking at the blood glucose and ketone monitor results from people on forums online that do cyclic and targeted ketogenic diets it can take 3-7 days for blood ketones to rise above 1.2 again which means that the body is using more glycogen to fuel activity than if you didn't eat the carbohydrate


So a conclusion for people wanting to try a ketogenic diet - avoid the carbohydrate ENTIRELY or eat enough carbohydrate to top up your glycogen ALL THE TIME
 
doogans

doogans

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Hi Everyone,
I'd like to share a few experiences here that I have had with zero carb dieting and training intensity. One of the biggest issues I see with ketogenic or zero carb diets (I'll call it "keto" from now) is that they struggle to really train hard.

I have a hypothesis for this. I'm not saying that what I'm about to say is gospel and it might not even be correct, but it's an educated guess based on my own experiences and doing massive amounts of reading on the subject.

So why do people hit the wall on keto and why can they not train at a very high intensity for very long at all? My guess is liver and muscle glycogen running out and this goes well with people's observations of them getting flat and smaller as they hit the wall. What do they do next? Normally they cycle carbs.

There are two main ways to cycle carbs on the ketogenic diet. The first is to eat carbs once a week and the other is eating them around training time. The internet is full of information that says you have to eat carbohydrate at some point on a keto diet in order to keep the weights heavy and the intensity high!

I'll take a step back to explain the body's energy systems. When you exercise is has the choice of burning "more glucose", "more fatty acids" or "more ketones". When you eat carbohydrate on the ketogenic diet your body will switch to wanting to burn "more glucose". It will happily keep consuming more glucose in the form of your glycogen as you exercise.

This is covered in "The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate" by Phinney. I think that if you choose to supply your body with carbohydrate on the ketogenic diet your body will continue to use your glycogen stores as energy during exercise.

If you avoid carbohydrate then you move from "more glucose" to "more ketones" and glycogen is spared. The main thing though people seem to think that switching between modes is quick and easy. Like you can eat 30g of sugar and work out and be back in "more ketone" mode. I don't believe that's true and looking at the blood glucose and ketone monitor results from people on forums online that do cyclic and targeted ketogenic diets it can take 3-7 days for blood ketones to rise above 1.2 again which means that the body is using more glycogen to fuel activity than if you didn't eat the carbohydrate


So a conclusion for people wanting to try a ketogenic diet - avoid the carbohydrate ENTIRELY or eat enough carbohydrate to top up your glycogen ALL THE TIME
I followed a keto(ish) diet for a few months. I was higher on protein than the standard keto diet recommends though. It helped me get lean as I've ever been but it tanked my energy levels and my training suffered. Even with refeed days I struggled. Just last week I started reintroducing carbs into my daily diet but I'm still scared of putting the fat back on. I guess some people can perform on keto diets, but for me it was a struggle.
 

Slimshoddy

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I've been on a keto way of eating for 3 months and have leaned out a bit. I also started TRT 4 months ago and my lifts have all gone up. My body is recomping nicely.

I'm now wondering if a normal carb around lifting days way of eating would yield even better results.

Being strict keto is hard, one good thing it does is you have less calories because you cant eat much when out and about.
 
AlexPowell

AlexPowell

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I followed a keto(ish) diet for a few months. I was higher on protein than the standard keto diet recommends though. It helped me get lean as I've ever been but it tanked my energy levels and my training suffered. Even with refeed days I struggled. Just last week I started reintroducing carbs into my daily diet but I'm still scared of putting the fat back on. I guess some people can perform on keto diets, but for me it was a struggle.
As I mentioned, don't refeed or introduce carbohydrate.
If you've not been eating carbohydrate and your energy levels are still too low then:

1. You need to add a tablespoon of iodized salt a day
2. Calories are just too low altogether
3. You're having a reaction to some food that you're eating
 
doogans

doogans

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As I mentioned, don't refeed or introduce carbohydrate.
If you've not been eating carbohydrate and your energy levels are still too low then:

1. You need to add a tablespoon of iodized salt a day
2. Calories are just too low altogether
3. You're having a reaction to some food that you're eating
My calories were very low I'll admit.
 
John Smeton

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rain best you can don't force it. Of course you can train hard on keto. Im guessing with carbs your train harder due to glycogen stores but there are guys who do keto and have for long periods of time and look good. For adding muscle fast as possible you need carbs
 

Pinggolfee96

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I'm sorry bro, but your posts are annoying as hell. this is stupid....youre talking about a keto diet with carbs and refeeds.....ummm hey dumb*** , thats not KETO! I seriously felt more stupid after reading this and most of what you post. holy sh*t you annoy me.

please The Solution back me up lol
 
AntM1564

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I'm sorry bro, but your posts are annoying as hell. this is stupid....youre talking about a keto diet with carbs and refeeds.....ummm hey dumb*** , thats not KETO! I seriously felt more stupid after reading this and most of what you post. holy sh*t you annoy me.

please The Solution back me up lol
He might respond by cherry picking articles that support his position. He is so far on his side of then fence it makes keto advocates look terrible.
 
jackedviking

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I've been on a keto way of eating for 3 months and have leaned out a bit. I also started TRT 4 months ago and my lifts have all gone up. My body is recomping nicely.
This probably has more to do with the inclusion of TRT.
 
sandpig

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A few years ago I followed Dave Palumbo's ketogenic diet. As he suggests I kept the Reps very low during my training and that enabled me to push rather hard.

Once I got into ketosis I never really had a problem with it.
 

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