Is this TOO low fat?

[Johnston]

I've been recommended by a supposed professional trainer, whom I've outlined all my personal information to, stats, goals etc, that I should drop my fat intake to 42-46g/day. This seems somewhat on the low side to me, and I did go that low once before for a while and it did nothing for my libido whatsoever... that said my overall calories were lower then.

So, I'm just curious what others think? All things considered, this guy seems to know what he's talking about, but this one recommendation has me scratching my head somewhat. I've been on 80-90g/day for ages now, suffered no ill effects and am still relatively lean, so why drop it by 50%?

 

[AntM1564]

It seems low. How many cals are you eating per day? I would not go below a 20% macro breakdown and that would be the bare minimum.

 

[Swolbraham]

a lot of coaches when trying to get "stage lean" will drop fats really low. for me, mine got down to 45g.

the idea is that you can keep carbohydrate and protein higher, which will help preserve LBM and keep energy levels up when in a low caloric deficit.

that being said, i'll never personally go that low again, anything below 60g and my libido is shot. but some guys can thrive off of a lower fat intake for a couple of months in terms of cutting. only way to really know is if you try it. i tried it, wasn't for me, but now I know

 

[Johnston]

It seems low. How many cals are you eating per day? I would not go below a 20% macro breakdown and that would be the bare minimum.

Currently my cals are circa 3000, couple hundred lower on rest days. What I've found odd about the calorie cycling programme this guy has suggested for me (with lean mass gains my goal) is that the cals drop to just under 1600 one day, then 2200, then up to just over 2600 before repeating. Fat and protein remain constant (42-46g and 195-200g respectively), with carbs the only variable.

I can't quite see how I'd gain following this, given what I'm doing right now is seeing rather slow gains, and just to maintain I need at least about 2600-2700. I did tell him this. On the contrary, the only result I can see following his guideline is a loss of weight and leaning out, but at the expense of my libido... which I certainly took a hit on last time I dropped my fats to that kind of level.

 

[AntM1564]

Give the link I am posting a read. It sounds like he is having you do something similar. Run the numbers using the information in the link and post what you come up with

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/the_carb_cycling_codex

 

[Johnston]

Give the link I am posting a read. It sounds like he is having you do something similar. Run the numbers using the information in the link and post what you come up with

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/the_carb_cycling_codex

Yes, it does seem similar, although when I put my figures in to that, ultimately I end up coming out with a much higher protein figure (over 250g at 1.5g/lb bw), and therefore following the carb guidelines that would push the fat down further... if I'd be cutting at the 20% recommendation, as he seems to have me doing (but with less protein). Bulking would be more of course.

So does this give his recommendation more credence? Thing is, I never told him I wanted to cut... fair enough if he thinks I should, but he hasn't told me this. Actually, he's said I can burn fat and build lean mass at the same time, which has immediately got me suspicious... and your link only reaffirms that with its "two inevitable truths" statement, which I already knew of course.

 

[Spaniard]

Hmmm... it sounds like he's calorie and carb cycling you but without the fat increases you generally see with low carb days. I'm going to be honest man, I don't really recommend going that low with fats.

 

[Johnston]

Hmmm... it sounds like he's calorie and carb cycling you but without the fat increases you generally see with low carb days. I'm going to be honest man, I don't really recommend going that low with fats.

Yes, and lower than I'm happier going myself, having experienced the effects of that kind of level before. From your experience, would you suggest a fixed higher amount (say 65-70g for example), or cycling between lower and higher... for example when carbs are lower, fats higher, and vice versa?

 

[AntM1564]

Yes, it does seem similar, although when I put my figures in to that, ultimately I end up coming out with a much higher protein figure (over 250g at 1.5g/lb bw), and therefore following the carb guidelines that would push the fat down further... if I'd be cutting at the 20% recommendation, as he seems to have me doing (but with less protein). Bulking would be more of course.

So does this give his recommendation more credence? Thing is, I never told him I wanted to cut... fair enough if he thinks I should, but he hasn't told me this. Actually, he's said I can burn fat and build lean mass at the same time, which has immediately got me suspicious... and your link only reaffirms that with its "two inevitable truths" statement, which I already knew of course.

1.5 g/lb of protein is not needed. You could drop it to 1-1.2g/lb and then however many cals you have left, allocate those in the form of fat.

 

[AntM1564]

Yes, and lower than I'm happier going myself, having experienced the effects of that kind of level before. From your experience, would you suggest a fixed higher amount (say 65-70g for example), or cycling between lower and higher... for example when carbs are lower, fats higher, and vice versa?

I've been carb/calorie cycling for a while now. Protein stays the same. Carbs are very low on low days and fat is the highest on those days, moderate days, carbs rise some and fats drops some, high carb days, carbs are the highest, and fats re the lowest, right now around 55g, but I am pretty low cal.

 

[Johnston]

I've been carb/calorie cycling for a while now. Protein stays the same. Carbs are very low on low days and fat is the highest on those days, moderate days, carbs rise some and fats drops some, high carb days, carbs are the highest, and fats re the lowest, right now around 55g, but I am pretty low cal.

Thanks, yeah I've never gone as high 1.5g/lb protein, I usually sit around the 1g mark, and as previously mentioned my fat has been steady at around 80-90g for a while now. I've not experimented much with cycling my calories properly for some time though... last time I did was on a significant cut, and I've learnt more since then, so I'm definitely curious to give it a go and see what results I get.

 

[The Solution]

Hmmm... it sounds like he's calorie and carb cycling you but without the fat increases you generally see with low carb days. I'm going to be honest man, I don't really recommend going that low with fats.

This

I've been recommended by a supposed professional trainer, whom I've outlined all my personal information to, stats, goals etc, that I should drop my fat intake to 42-46g/day. This seems somewhat on the low side to me, and I did go that low once before for a while and it did nothing for my libido whatsoever... that said my overall calories were lower then.

So, I'm just curious what others think? All things considered, this guy seems to know what he's talking about, but this one recommendation has me scratching my head somewhat. I've been on 80-90g/day for ages now, suffered no ill effects and am still relatively lean, so why drop it by 50%?

Read the bold
= Red Flag.

 

[RecompMan]

a lot of coaches when trying to get "stage lean" will drop fats really low. for me, mine got down to 45g. the idea is that you can keep carbohydrate and protein higher, which will help preserve LBM and keep energy levels up when in a low caloric deficit. that being said, i'll never personally go that low again, anything below 60g and my libido is shot. but some guys can thrive off of a lower fat intake for a couple of months in terms of cutting. only way to really know is if you try it. i tried it, wasn't for me, but now I know

I happen to agree with the lower fat approach while cutting/carb cycling as the other days your fat is higher


It balances it out

Libido drop you'll notice on a low fat diet within 10-12 days but I always supplement with coconut oil for fats and it helps tremendously

I feel low fat though is not for everyone and a lot of things determine your specific macro count

 

[RecompMan]

Currently my cals are circa 3000, couple hundred lower on rest days. What I've found odd about the calorie cycling programme this guy has suggested for me (with lean mass gains my goal) is that the cals drop to just under 1600 one day, then 2200, then up to just over 2600 before repeating. Fat and protein remain constant (42-46g and 195-200g respectively), with carbs the only variable. I can't quite see how I'd gain following this, given what I'm doing right now is seeing rather slow gains, and just to maintain I need at least about 2600-2700. I did tell him this. On the contrary, the only result I can see following his guideline is a loss of weight and leaning out, but at the expense of my libido... which I certainly took a hit on last time I dropped my fats to that kind of level.

If all you're ingesting is LEAN meat

Use coconut oil , and ARA as your fats

Ara pre, and coconut oil each meal

 

[Johnston]

I happen to agree with the lower fat approach while cutting/carb cycling as the other days your fat is higher

It balances it out

Libido drop you'll notice on a low fat diet within 10-12 days but I always supplement with coconut oil for fats and it helps tremendously

I feel low fat though is not for everyone and a lot of things determine your specific macro count

In my case though, as per the recommendations I've been given by my trainer, my fat should be at 45g, which I think is too low for me, personally. He doesn't know my own experience with this in the past.

So, given this previous experience of running fats so low doesn't appear to work (for me), what's the best move here... kick it up to about 60g or so, or cycle so maybe 45g on high carb day, but higher on low carb day?

 

[RecompMan]

Yea cycle your fat man

Think about it this way

Lower and higher days when you look at the average it'll be higher

But what % of macros is it

Id less then 20% I personally like mine around 22% on higher carb

 

[Johnston]

Yea cycle your fat man

Think about it this way

Lower and higher days when you look at the average it'll be higher

But what % of macros is it

Id less then 20% I personally like mine around 22% on higher carb

OK, thanks, that makes sense to me. I think what's been recommended to me hasn't taken in to account my previous experience with low fat, so that experience certainly gives me an advantage going in.