Post workout insulin spike

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  1. idk what to tell you all, when I drink simple sugars and protein post workout in time I put on fat and weighs me down.
    I eat very little pre and post workout anyway and I still have plenty of energy to go finish my workout.
    From trial and error I discovered that im a fat burner. My body prefers to burn fat for energy and I only use carbs strategically when need it.

  2. AnabolicMinds Site Rep
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    Take away notes:

    MPS is elevated for 24-48 hours so no, it's really not that important for most.

    Glycemic index has no real relevance with the possible exception of diabetics, and then in the context of a varied diet likely makes little to no difference.

    Also you have to take into account whether or not someone has eaten anything during the day, digestion and absorption takes time and most are in a post prandial state while working out so substrates are being absorbed throughout the day. If you are training fasted then maybe, but again everyone will be eating within a few hours and that is sufficient for intermediate lifters.

    You should check out AA's sticky above that addresses post workout meals. What's most important is total daily intake, and unless training fasted, ingesting protein/carbs post workout makes little difference with the only potential exception being the highly elite BBd'er. Training and diet needn't be so restrictive.

    FYI, gluconeogenesis is the synthesis of glucose from any carbon substrate other than carbohydrate substrates. In order for insulin to be secreted biphasically, as it does with carbohydrates, glucose must be detected in the blood. In a meal containing only protein, like we are describing, glucose from this meal won't get into the blood until gluconeogenesis occurs to synthesize glucose from the amino acids that are broken down from the protein source. The rate at which gluconeogenesis converts amino acids to glucose is comparatively a very small amount to the rate at which glycolysis breaks down carbohydrates into glucose, ultimately only causing a very small insulin response from any protein source. Now, there are amino acids that cause an insulin response before they can be converted into glucose... Although the insulin response from amino acids is monophasic, so the pancreas does not produce a secondary insulin response as it does with glucose, which is comparitively the larger release. So no, the insulin response from a protein source is not similar at all to the insulin response to "high GI" carbohydrates. Completely different in fact.


    Alan Aragon:

    Hierarchy of Importance

    When speaking of nutrition for improving body composition or training performance, it's crucial to realize there's an underlying hierarchy of importance. At the top of the hierarchy is total amount of the macronutrients by the end of the day. Distantly below that is the precise timing of those nutrients. With very few exceptions, athletes and active individuals eat multiple times per day. Thus, the majority of their day is spent in the postprandial (fed) rather than a post-absorptive (fasted) state. The vast majority of nutrient timing studies have been done on overnight-fasted subjects put through glycogen depletion protocols, which obviously limits the applicability of the outcomes. Pre-exercise (and/or during-exercise) nutrient intake often has a lingering carry-over effect into the post-exercise period. Throughout the day, there's a constant overlap of meal digestion & nutrient absorption. For this reason, the effectiveness of nutrient timing does not require a high degree of precision.

    The Primary Laws of Nutrient Timing
    The First Law of Nutrient Timing is: hitting your daily macronutrient targets is FAR more important than nutrient timing.
    The Second Law of Nutrient Timing is: hitting your daily macronutrient targets is FAR more important than nutrient timing.

    NOTE: Please do not misinterpret the above to mean that timing is irrelevant. On the contrary, it's very relevant. Timing just happens to have MUCH LESS impact on results than hitting your macro totals for the day. This doesn't diminish the fact that people need to individualize their meal timing so that it maximizes their training performance (& does not hinder it). The latter manipulations vary widely, because people have different training protocols, goals, and tolerances. For example, some people experience their best training performance in an immediately fed state, while others do best in a semi-fasted or fasted state. Endurance athletes who neglect carbohydrate timing will not optimize their training capacity. Strength/power athletes with minimal endurance demands have much less of a concern for this. There's no way to 'universalize' a nutrient timing prescription that applies to everyone & all types of athletes. But to reiterate, macro totals for the day overshadow timing in terms of importance, especially for bodybuilding. If macro totals for the day are not hit, the most precisely neurotic timing of meals is all for sh!t.

    http://www.jissn.com/content/10/1/5
    http://www.jissn.com/content/pdf/1550-2783-10-5.pdf

    "The postexercise "anabolic window" is a highly misused & abused concept. Preworkout nutrition all but cancels the urgency, unless you're an endurance athlete with multiple glycogen-depleting events in a single day. Getting down to brass tacks, a relatively recent study (Power et al. 2009) showed that a 45g dose of whey protein isolate takes appx 50 minutes to cause blood AA levels to peak. Resulting insulin levels, which peaked at 40 minutes after ingestion, remained at elevations known to max out the inhibition of muscle protein breakdown (15-30 mU/L) for 120 minutes after ingestion. This dose takes 3 hours for insulin & AA levels to return to baseline from the point of ingestion. The inclusion of carbs to this dose would cause AA & insulin levels to peak higher & stay elevated above baseline even longer.

    So much for the anabolic peephole & the urgency to down AAs during your weight training workout; they are already seeping into circulation (& will continue to do so after your training bout is done). Even in the event that a preworkout meal is skipped, the anabolic effect of the postworkout meal is increased as a supercompensatory response (Deldicque et al, 2010). Moving on, another recent study (Staples et al, 2010) found that a substantial dose of carbohydrate (50g maltodextrin) added to 25g whey protein was unable to further increase postexercise net muscle protein balance compared to the protein dose without carbs. Again, this is not to say that adding carbs at this point is counterproductive, but it certainly doesn't support the idea that you must get your lightning-fast postexercise carb orgy for optimal results.

    To add to this... Why has the majority of longer-term research failed to show any meaningful differences in nutrient timing relative to the resistance training bout? It's likely because the body is smarter than we give it credit for. Most people don't know that as a result of a single training bout, the receptivity of muscle to protein dosing can persist for at least 24 hours: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21289204

    More from earlier in the thread:

    Here's what you're not seeming to grasp: the "windows" for taking advantage of nutrient timing are not little peepholes. They're more like bay windows of a mansion. You're ignoring just how long the anabolic effects are of a typical mixed meal. Depending on the size of a meal, it takes a good 1-2 hours for circulating substrate levels to peak, and it takes a good 3-6 hours (or more) for everythng to drop back down to baseline.

    You're also ignoring the fact that the anabolic effects of a meal are maxed out at much lower levels than typical meals drive insulin & amino acids up to. Furthermore, you're also ignoring the body's ability of anabolic (& fat-oxidative) supercompensation when forced to work in the absence of fuels. So, metaphorically speaking, our physiology basically has the universe mapped out and you're thinking it needs to be taught addition & subtraction."
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by JudoJosh View Post
    This has taken me a VERY long time to learn and sometimes I still try and micromanage. Ultimately this differences rarely will manifest themselves into actual physical differences (re strength and/or bofy comp) and will instead just place an undue stress on me.

    Whats your pre-WO nutrition looking like @Rodja? Still IF?
    I tried to bring back IF, but couldn't fit it into the schedule with my geared sessions taking so damn long. I'm back to basics of eating 4-6 times a day (depending on the day and hunger) and just making sure to get in around 5000kcals/day.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  4. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post

    I tried to bring back IF, but couldn't fit it into the schedule with my geared sessions taking so damn long. I'm back to basics of eating 4-6 times a day (depending on the day and hunger) and just making sure to get in around 5000kcals/day.
    Your TP bill must run in the hundreds...

  5. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    There needs to be a caveat on this: intensity, volume, and duration.

    Personally, I'm lucky to get a meal in within an hour of training because I'm usually nauseous at the end of a training session and this hasn't stopped me from getting stronger. I'll occasionally down a protein shake afterwards, but the only substrate I ingest is 10g BCAA during training and then a large meal once my stomach settles. I don't worry about micromanaging the small things and focus more on meeting overall caloric needs and training.
    Perhaps; also the type of exercise differenciates the need for certain nutrients post workout. CHO ingestion post will likely attenuate protein degradation rather than be used to directly refuel glycogen stores/ be stored as fat if the workout is stressful enough to have such an effect.

    But of course, caveats do apply here.
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  6. I think body type plays a role as well. Before I moved to Texas, in a matter of 2 years I put on almost 40lbs with simple carbs and protein. Some of it is finding what is good for you. I get really hungry post workout, almost grumpy hungry, so I have a meal. I simply wanted to know if my post workout meal was still spiking my insulin since it was oatmeal and 2 tablespoons of peanut butter and a scoop and a half of protein. Obviously less than post-workout sugars, but I was just curious because I felt a little better with that meal. I think most people who have posted on here have had good results with where they are at RIGHT NOW. For example, Vassille had good results with only protein post workout. Rodja eats when he gets hungry after a workout. I eat a lot of my calories at breakfast and post workout. I have to eat after I workout. The hunger makes me an angry sort afterword. I think the main thing to take away from all this talk is that all the meal timing in the world doesn't mean anything if you are not hitting your caloric needs. Which sounds kind of obvious in the end. haha
    It's Bea, fcker. Bea Mother****ing Arthur. Dammit........lol

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  7. Part of the anger comes from going hypoglycemic. Since you are essentially carb-dependent, this will happen. Oatmeal will most definitely spike insulin, and the odds are your breakfast will, also. (Unless it's devoid of carbs).
    It depends on what your goals are. If it's fat loss, there are better ways

  8. Quote Originally Posted by The Solution View Post
    Take away notes:

    MPS is elevated for 24-48 hours so no, it's really not that important for most.

    Glycemic index has no real relevance with the possible exception of diabetics, and then in the context of a varied diet likely makes little to no difference.

    Though there's a certain class of individuals who will try to burn you in the fire fighter stake for saying this, I completely agree with you in this statement and actually I think it's the first post I truly like from you Scooby dude!
    >SNS-Glycophase<
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  9. AnabolicMinds Site Rep
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celorza View Post
    Though there's a certain class of individuals who will try to burn you in the fire fighter stake for saying this, I completely agree with you in this statement and actually I think it's the first post I truly like from you Scooby dude!
    oh so all my other posts are now pure BS huh ?
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  10. Quote Originally Posted by The Solution View Post
    oh so all my other posts are now pure BS huh ?
    No no no no, just the first post I see you make a serious, actually mature post besides all the "sweet talking" or innuendo statements with a bit of keyboard-warrior competitions of "I am the bigger kid, I can go there and prove it wherever you are!"

    So just saying, nice post, we agree. I liked it
    >SNS-Glycophase<
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  11. AnabolicMinds Site Rep
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celorza View Post
    No no no no, just the first post I see you make a serious, actually mature post besides all the "sweet talking" or innuendo statements with a bit of keyboard-warrior competitions of "I am the bigger kid, I can go there and prove it wherever you are!"

    So just saying, nice post, we agree. I liked it

    Sweet Talking , innuendo statements, keyboard warrior?
    .. ill remember that next time i post....

    Thanks for the kind words ?
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  12. Quote Originally Posted by The Solution View Post
    Thanks for the kind words

    There ding ding ding! You're welcome.
    >SNS-Glycophase<
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Rep

  13. Quote Originally Posted by threeFs View Post
    Part of the anger comes from going hypoglycemic. Since you are essentially carb-dependent, this will happen. Oatmeal will most definitely spike insulin, and the odds are your breakfast will, also. (Unless it's devoid of carbs).
    It depends on what your goals are. If it's fat loss, there are better ways
    Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on your point of view, I haven't had to try and lose fat. I know when I have tried carb cycling a couple of times, I noticed a difference. But even at 33 and not doing cardio, I am 191 and still 10.5-11.5% bf. When I lift, I have always been able to take in 350-450 grams of carbs a day with no fat gain. That being said, that is why I believe you are correct when you so I am carb-dependent. I think my body untilizes it a little more efficiently.
    It's Bea, fcker. Bea Mother****ing Arthur. Dammit........lol

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  14. Quote Originally Posted by Celorza View Post
    No no no no, just the first post I see you make a serious, actually mature post besides all the "sweet talking" or innuendo statements with a bit of keyboard-warrior competitions of "I am the bigger kid, I can go there and prove it wherever you are!"

    So just saying, nice post, we agree. I liked it
    Oh the irony.

  15. AnabolicMinds Site Rep
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celorza View Post
    There ding ding ding! You're welcome.
    Typical Sns Reps....
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