Highly experimental extreme diet & training plan (long & detailed

[EatMoar]

Fats play a vital role in the body; testosterone synthesis is one of these roles as well as the transportation of steriodal hormones. I know the name Fat makes it easy to correlate fat intake with adipose tissue but under proper control this will not occur. Fat accumulation can largely (excluding physiological reasons) be associated with excess calorie above maintainence levels and that needed for tissue resynthesis (ie. muscular hypertrophy). If you havent already, google TDEE calculator and use myfitnesspal.com to construct a healthy diet. The number the TDEE calculator shows you is the amount of energy required to sustain your current mass (estimate only), try find one that needs lean body mass measurement (use DEXA or calipers for this) as this will give a far more accurate (yet still an estimate) caloric need.
TBH i'd recommened you follow that for a few weeks to get your body back into a proper energy balance then launch into a 250-500kcal weekly deficit. My primary issue here is your overall health so weight loss is actually off the radar for me but if your going to do it, at least do yourself a favor and cut out the drastic workout periods (which will rely largely on glycogen which you aren't getting enough off) and increase carbs and fats slowly (your body may have adapted already and may store these quickly as fat).

It's weird you would think more fat would equal more testosterone but doing a diet like keto I find myself having less drive and just straight depressed. Bleh different strokes for different folks.

[scherbs]

G'day all!



I'm in an interesting/weird situation and looking for some answers. So far haven't been able to find anyone who could make anything out of my situation unfortunately. I believe it involves some serious understanding of the body and our systems on a medical level.

First some background information:



I'm a cauccasian male, 28years old and 176cm high. I relocated to Australia on April 2012 and with the stress and hardships of adjusting to a new life etc I gained lots of weight and never exercised for a very long time. On September 10th 2012 I decided to go back to a healthy lifestyle. At the time I had hit 83kg and initially started training 3 evenings/week with a personal trainer. By December 23rd I'd dropped down to 67kg with a combination of exercise and a healthy diet. My diet included balanced eating for some time, going extreme on starvation once in a while and occasionally some strict protein only periods. In this time I had extreme fluctuations as well, such as gaining 6kg in 7days and 7kg in 9days (all of which I immediately lost in the same amount of time with extreme starvation & protein only diets) (Comparison photos attached). From January 1st 2013 I've completely lost control due to some personal reasons and kept eating uncontrollably till January 28th and went back up to 78kg. Though during this period, I continued my workout sessions with my personal trainer.



Betwen January 28th and February 3rd, I went onto a protein only diet (only 6scoops of whey protein each day without any solid food other drinks) to initially shock my body and overcome the first resistance period against fat loss. I gave myself a final limitless eating break on February 3rd. Since February 4th I've been on a powder protein(4 main varities), glutamine, bcaa and eaa tabs diet. I've supplemented it with lots of additional things as to provide as much as possible for my body while limiting myself to a very high protein(255gr on max days) and extremely low carb(38gr on max days) & fat(21gr on max days) and almost zero sugar(12gr on max days) intake. I've also switched to an extremely heavy training plan with this diet, adding a variety of other activities to my 3 PT sessions/week. Now I have 11 separate training sessions over 6 days and full rest on 1 day only. (All details in the attached file)



Now my problem is I'm not losing as much weight & fat as I anticipated based on earlier experiences on simpler versions of this kind of a diet. For ex only 10scoops of whey protein and 10gr of glutamine per day without any solid food or other drinks earlier I was able to lose 0.7-1.0kg from one morning to the next on a steady basis for a week. My workout plan was also a lot easier & lighter compared to what I'm doing right now (Only PT sessions 3days/week and moderate HIIT cardio sessions on the mornings of my PT sessions) (Though of the total loss around 60% was from fat and around 40% was from muscles)



I've tracked my weight(also in the attached file) under the exact same conditions since February 4th both in the mornings(first thing as I wake up) and nights(last thing as I to to sleep) and based on the results I've some problematic questions.



- First of all the weight increase during the days is extreme on some days. There's no meaningful trend on this based on my eating & training plan unfortunately so can't get anything out of this. I would expect water retention and added weight from the liquids I'm consuming but a 0.7kg-1.0kg increase from morning till night doesn't sound normal in my opinion (considering my eating plan)?


- I'm thinking that (from past experience) my body is supposed to be losing lots of fat due to the energy deficit I'm creating with such a low intake (1000-1400kcal depending on the day) and high and heavy physical activity. Though nothing seems to be changing? I also considered the possibility of losing fat and building muscle at the same time (I'm aware that scientifically it's said that anabolic and catabolic systems working simultaneously at such rates is impossible) as it's impossible currently for my weight and body composition to stay the same while following such an eating & training plan? Also I'm able to continuously -on every training day- increase the weights on all my exercises (only with an exception to wrist curls) which wouldn't have been possible if my muscles were not experiencing any changes on a daily basis.


- I'm also thinking that my body could actually have gone into a full protection mode which I tried to prevent with the previous week's simpler & stricter protein only diet. I've heard/read that this protective phase could last up to 3 weeks (never had it happen for this long) but nothing certain on this topic. Any ideas on this?



I would really appreciate if someone could finally shed some light to my situation. I've been seriously frustrated at the results I've been getting for the past week. If I could pinpoint the problem I could solve it somehow and as you would have guessed by now I'm a guy who pushes his limits beyond normally expected so I'm fine with going to the extreme ends. I'll look forward to all feedback!!



ps. Please do not comment telling me how stupid/unhealthy/dangerous this diet is as I'm aware of the risks and am doing everything I can at the same time prevent anything from going wrong with additional supplements.(even getting complete blood counts & various tests to check if there are any early warning signs) I'm also perfectly energetic throughout the day, even though I'm putting in an 8.5-9.5/10 effort in all my exercises I'm still good to take even more at the end of my sessions, having a perfect mood, lately been sleeping an average of only 3.5hours a day and still physically & mentally feeling better than I've ever had in my life! I've always been a strong believer of a quote from T.S. Elliot: "Only those who will risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." and recently I've learned that I'm able to expand/push my limits 3 times more than I already was doing in the near past.

OP
I need to echo the other replies in this thread urging you to adopt a more reasonable and healthy diet.
Your diet plan is not "experimental", it is disordered.
By asking for advice on how to make it work, while demanding that we not criticize your 'plan', you are just asking for the good members of AM to justify your eating as something other than highly disordered. As someone who has overcome an eating disorder, I unfortunately recognize disordered thinking like yours a mile away.
I encourage you to seek the help of a trained counselor to help you work through your issues.
Until you master your mind, you will never reach your physical goals.

[fueledpassion]

It's weird you would think more fat would equal more testosterone but doing a diet like keto I find myself having less drive and just straight depressed. Bleh different strokes for different folks.

I wonder how "proven" that theory is myself. I personally feel like the relationship between fats and testosterone are not fully understood. I looked at those studies that everyone swears by now and it just doesnt add up. I know cholesterol has a great deal to do with test levels and I know fat can have loads of cholesterol, so maybe that is the connection...

But I also know testosterone plays a lesser role in fat burning and muscle building activities than GH, too.

[Jiigzz]

It's weird you would think more fat would equal more testosterone but doing a diet like keto I find myself having less drive and just straight depressed. Bleh different strokes for different folks.

I never said more fat= more testosterone, I said fats play a role in testosterone synthesis and hormonal delivery.

[Jiigzz]

I wonder how "proven" that theory is myself. I personally feel like the relationship between fats and testosterone are not fully understood. I looked at those studies that everyone swears by now and it just doesnt add up. I know cholesterol has a great deal to do with test levels and I know fat can have loads of cholesterol, so maybe that is the connection...

But I also know testosterone plays a lesser role in fat burning and muscle building activities than GH, too.

It's not a "theory"; fats do play a role in testosterone production. And I never said more fat = more testosterone; I did state however that fats play a huge role in the function of the body (both in test synthesis, hormonal delivery, cell structure and storage of fat soluble vitamins); again more fat above ideal values won't produce more test or enhance storage capabilities.

But his values are far too low.

[fueledpassion]

It's not a "theory"; fats do play a role in testosterone production. And I never said more fat = more testosterone; I did state however that fats play a huge role in the function of the body (both in test synthesis, hormonal delivery, cell structure and storage of fat soluble vitamins); again more fat above ideal values won't produce more test or enhance storage capabilities.

But his values are far too low.

In a biomolecular level, just how exactly do they play a role & why? Or is there just an observational assumption that when I increase fats, I also can note an increase in test levels.

Then also, here is my chief question I'd love for someone to answer: Just how much fat is needed to meet those "healthy" levels of testosterone? Is it 10%? 20%? 50%? Or maybe its a percentage of saturated fats, or maybe a certain % of GLA's? I feel like without quantifying the study its useless to know.

[ZiR RED]

Google scholar "Starvation adaptation human".

http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=...%2C18&as_vis=1

[Jiigzz]

In a biomolecular level, just how exactly do they play a role & why? Or is there just an observational assumption that when I increase fats, I also can note an increase in test levels.

Then also, here is my chief question I'd love for someone to answer: Just how much fat is needed to meet those "healthy" levels of testosterone? Is it 10%? 20%? 50%? Or maybe its a percentage of saturated fats, or maybe a certain % of GLA's? I feel like without quantifying the study its useless to know.

Its hard to quantify given that testosterone is tightly regulated by a plethora of factors; not just fats. But they have made correlations between fats and testosterone:

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...terone_booster
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/64/6/850.short

Decrease in HDL associated with decrease in testosterone:
http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/146/8/609.short

but semantics aside, he is not a bodybuilder and his health is of optimal focus atm, not performance or lowering bf levels (although I could dispute this too). He clearly is misinformed about the role of macronutrients within the body and is fearful (admitted) of carbs and fats and you fueling the fear is doing nothing to help.

[EatMoar]

I honestly used to be that way . Used to be really fat and once I got down to 145 pounds I wanted to stay that way. Ate 1700 kCals, low fat, low carb and high protein. Then one night I filled the toilet bowl with blood. Ran to the ED freaking the **** out. The doctor said I had an internal hemmroid that had been irritated. I told him about my diet and he said up the carbs and fiber and low and behold I didn't get fat, no more blood and now I understand the importance of macro molecules. It takes an experience to change ones mindset sometimes

[Jiigzz]

I honestly used to be that way . Used to be really fat and once I got down to 145 pounds I wanted to stay that way. Ate 1700 kCals, low fat, low carb and high protein. Then one night I filled the toilet bowl with blood. Ran to the ED freaking the **** out. The doctor said I had an internal hemmroid that had been irritated. I told him about my diet and he said up the carbs and fiber and low and behold I didn't get fat, no more blood and now I understand the importance of macro molecules. It takes an experience to change ones mindset sometimes

Wow, crazy. Sometimes you learn the hard way, but if it hadn't of happened, it could have been worse.

[EatMoar]

Wow, crazy. Sometimes you learn the hard way, but if it hadn't of happened, it could have been worse.

Seriously . It allowed me to educate myself about diet and track what I eat. So it wasn't a bad thing

[JudoJosh]

Diet actually isn't that horrible. Its similar to a PSMF but with more protein. Its bordering Chris Shugarts velocity diet.

Your problem seems to be that your not incorporating refeeds into it.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S™II using Tapatalk 2

[fueledpassion]

Its hard to quantify given that testosterone is tightly regulated by a plethora of factors; not just fats. But they have made correlations between fats and testosterone:

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...terone_booster
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/64/6/850.short

Decrease in HDL associated with decrease in testosterone:
http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/146/8/609.short

but semantics aside, he is not a bodybuilder and his health is of optimal focus atm, not performance or lowering bf levels (although I could dispute this too). He clearly is misinformed about the role of macronutrients within the body and is fearful (admitted) of carbs and fats and you fueling the fear is doing nothing to help.

Man I stopped bein useful to this board a long time ago, lol

[Jiigzz]

Diet actually isn't that horrible. Its similar to a PSMF but with more protein. Its bordering Chris Shugarts velocity diet.

Your problem seems to be that your not incorporating refeeds into it.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S™II using Tapatalk 2

Its a starvation diet; and contains no whole foods. Considering he may only be leaving around <500kcals for physiological functions (almost boderline zero i'd say). And the extreme weight fluctuations (as much as 9kg in 7 days IIRC) and deriving calories solely from Whey protein (no whole foods) and 11 training sessions in 6 days. Theres no way this food intake can sustain the tremendous volume and recovery.

No solid foods etc.

The diet is terrible, imo at least.

[Jiigzz]

Man I stopped bein useful to this board a long time ago, lol

Not true, I just like to stick up for my fats (albeit I only aim for .5g per lb)

[EatMoar]

Its a starvation diet; and contains no whole foods. Considering he may only be leaving around <500kcals for physiological functions (almost boderline zero i'd say). And the extreme weight fluctuations (as much as 9kg in 7 days IIRC) and deriving calories solely from Whey protein (no whole foods) and 11 training sessions in 6 days. Theres no way this food intake can sustain the tremendous volume and recovery.

No solid foods etc.

The diet is terrible, imo at least.

His CNS must be shut down. Over training plus no fuel for the nervous system, how does he function

[JudoJosh]

Its a starvation diet; and contains no whole foods. Considering he may only be leaving around <500kcals for physiological functions (almost boderline zero i'd say). And the extreme weight fluctuations (as much as 9kg in 7 days IIRC) and deriving calories solely from Whey protein (no whole foods) and 11 training sessions in 6 days. Theres no way this food intake can sustain the tremendous volume and recovery.

No solid foods etc.

The diet is terrible, imo at least.

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/41....full.pdf+html

Kleen even has a log on here with this style of dieting Kleen Crashes Head first into fat loss using Lyle McDonald's Rapid Fat Loss Handbook.

Now the volume does seem a bit much but my point was the diet in general really isnt all that horrible of a diet.

[Geoforce]

http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/41....full.pdf+html

Kleen even has a log on here with this style of dieting Kleen Crashes Head first into fat loss using Lyle McDonald's Rapid Fat Loss Handbook.

Now the volume does seem a bit much but my point was the diet in general really isnt all that horrible of a diet.

Haven't done Rapid FatLoss before, but I can vouch for low calorie type diets. Obviously not something one would want to do forever, but UD 2.0 (also by Lyle) had me eating about 1500 calories and nil carbs for 3 days straight. UD 2.0 is the single best diet I have ever done and nothing else comes close. While I haven't done RFL, Lyle freaking knows his ****. The main problem would be not following what he says and trying to get cute thinking you can improve something.

[JudoJosh]

Haven't done Rapid FatLoss before, but I can vouch for low calorie type diets. Obviously not something one would want to do forever, but UD 2.0 (also by Lyle) had me eating about 1500 calories and nil carbs for 3 days straight. UD 2.0 is the single best diet I have ever done and nothing else comes close. While I haven't done RFL, Lyle freaking knows his ****. The main problem would be not following what he says and trying to get cute thinking you can improve something.

UD 2.0 is the only diet by Lyle that I have yet to personally try.

[Geoforce]

UD 2.0 is the only diet by Lyle that I have yet to personally try.

Lol, actually it's the only one of his I HAVE tried despite being fairly familiar with most of his stuff. What's your favorite?

To all: FWIW I am not commenting on OP's diet or the discussion. Was skimming the thread and commenting on Lyle's stuff.