LeanGains - Extreme Difference in Cals on Build/Burn Days

[T50]

I've been out of the LeanGains discussion for a while but from what I can remember, people saw good results from a larger difference in calories on build/burn days. I vaguely remember +35/-50% maintenance calories being a possible option (or I could be very off the mark)? For myself, that would mean

Build Days - 3450 Calories
Burn Days - 1275 Calories

Any input/advice would be greatly appreciated. I know there's the LG Discussion thread but it's honestly too long at this point to comb through given my time constraints. Thanks in advance.

 

[AnthroLats]

Eh, few months bump, but this is very relevant to my interests. Im in the midst of trying something similar but would like to know more about others past experiences doing things like this.

Actually, along this same topic, would this have a substantially negative effect on recovery?

 

[FL3X MAGNUM]

My main focus with caloric restriction on off days is with the carbs.
You'll cut calories back a decent amount just by restricting carb intake.

 

[JD261985]

Eh, few months bump, but this is very relevant to my interests. Im in the midst of trying something similar but would like to know more about others past experiences doing things like this.

Actually, along this same topic, would this have a substantially negative effect on recovery?

I would certainly think so. How the **** do you recover fully on 1500 cals ?

 

[AnthroLats]

My main focus with caloric restriction on off days is with the carbs.
You'll cut calories back a decent amount just by restricting carb intake.

Agreed. I've pretty much only been throttling my carb intake when it comes to putting myself in a caloric deficit. In OPs post, that would essentially be my result after cutting out carbs. Maybe a little higher.

I would certainly think so. How the **** do you recover fully on 1500 cals ?

Heh I dunno. I would imagine that the bigger surplus on lift days doesn't help recovery as much as one would hope, would it?


What about Mr. Tnubs suggestion here about alternate day fasting? I remembered reading it and thought it was interesting, albeit it seemed extreme.
anabolicminds. com/forum/bulking/220832-tnubs-ultimate-lean.html
Same principle, except an even deeper deficit with not as much calories on lift days.

 

[eluruguayo]

I've been out of the LeanGains discussion for a while but from what I can remember, people saw good results from a larger difference in calories on build/burn days. I vaguely remember +35/-50% maintenance calories being a possible option (or I could be very off the mark)? For myself, that would mean

Build Days - 3450 Calories
Burn Days - 1275 Calories

Any input/advice would be greatly appreciated. I know there's the LG Discussion thread but it's honestly too long at this point to comb through given my time constraints. Thanks in advance.

Well, even though LG is designed to provide "L" and "G" simultaneously, you can't really do both simultaneously; that's like trying to push and pull at the same time. So, you have to decide which is the higher priority.

If you are going primarily for the "L"—trying to lean out, but spare muscle and maybe grow it a little bit—then you should max out the difference. Don't ever go below 1000 calories on an "off" day (I don't even understand how this would be possible for any non-anorexic with a healthy appetite anyway), but, otherwise, try to go pretty low—50 to 60% of maintenance—AND eat all of it in 3 to 4 hours, not 8 hours. Frankly, 8 hours is still a pretty long time.
On "on" days, go over maintenance by about 1/2 to 2/3 the amount you went under it on the "off" days. So if your "off" days are 1000 cals under maintenance, then go 500 to 650 cal over maintenance on "on" days.

If you are going primarily for the "G", then the difference shouldn't be as big, so your body doesn't get as much chance to leach from both fat and lean stores on "off" days.
In this case, stay within 500 cals of maintenance in both directions—500 under on "off" days, 500 over on "on" days. And cheat once in a while.

By the way—As with almost everything else in fitness, the real right answer here is CYCLING.
After you've gone with big swings for a while (and hopefully leaned out a bit), then go with smaller swings. Keep your metabolism on its toes. Like lifting weights, you really don't want to be doing the same program for more than a couple of months at a stretch, regardless of how well designed that program might be.

 

[Rhone]

It was a couple months back that I read through the whole LG thread, but I don't recall many people advocating huge calorie swings. Most people stuck with the standard recommendation +35/-10 bulk, +10/-35 cut, and +20/-20 recomp.

I've been eating about 2750 on build days, 1750 on burn days (roughly +10/-30) for 6 weeks now. I've lost 6lbs ("only" 1lb/week) in that time frame, but also dropped 2 full inches from my waist. I don't think my waist size was decreasing that quickly when I was dropping 2lbs/week on a daily deficit pre-LG. Personally, I don't suspect that more drastic calorie swings would be beneficial, but if someone has tried it I'd be interested in hearing about the results.

 

[gkusa001]

Yeah definitely in for the answer with regards to this. Currently my Intake on my 3 Training Days is 2780 and 1850 for rest days and even with this slight difference in Cals (compared to OP) I personally am having a difficult time with recovery. But I guess you have to take into consideration the level of intensity and the volume of work you are doing in the gym in the first place.

 

[eluruguayo]

Personally, I don't suspect that more drastic calorie swings would be beneficial, but if someone has tried it I'd be interested in hearing about the results.

You are on point here... not with your suspicions, but with the fact that you started the sentence with the word "Personally".

It's just not going to be possible to prescribe a general recommendation that's as specific as what's being described here—once you get to that kind of resolution, it's all individual differences. Blah blah blah mesomorph ectomorph endomorph yada yada yada.

When it comes to fine-tuning this stuff, the motto—as always—is "Listen to your body".
You'll be able to feel the difference between "I'm sorta hungry, in that fat-burning dull-throb sort of way" and "holy mother, I feel like I'm on the Auschwitz diet". And that difference comes sooner for some than for others.

For me, the "Auschwitz diet" feeling comes when (a) I try to fast for more than 22-24 hours, or (b) I try to go more than 25% below suggested calories for a whole day. So for me those are hard limits. If I go any longer or lower, I start feeling weak and fantasizing about food, nothing gets accomplished, I don't sleep well, and it will be hard for me to avoid bingeing when I break the fast/have a bulk day.

On the other hand, I know people who have little trouble, and better results, with greater extremes.
Different strokes.