once you hit macros, where to put extra cals?

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  1. the chest workout you posted before is double the volume of layne nortons PHAT. PHAT is a good program if you follow it

    5/3/1 is easy and will meet your goals. buy his e-book online and it'll make more sense. I went from 202-215 in just a few months using 5/3/1.

    I don't wanna sound like a dick, but I don't imagine you fully grasp Westside. I still don't

    and so what if it's only a 4 day week? you'll want that extra day off. your body needs rest to grow. you aren't letting it do that, especially when you lift for over an hour. lift two on, one off if you'd rather
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  2. i think im gonna do the 5/3/1 with the westside template to it so i can doa lil DE work but still track my strength progress easily with the bodybuilding accessory exercises
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  3. look at the Periodization Bible template w/ 5/3/1
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    [email protected]
    CONTROLLED LABS products are produced in a GMP for Sport certified facility.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by mkretz View Post
    i think im gonna do the 5/3/1 with the westside template to it so i can doa lil DE work but still track my strength progress easily with the bodybuilding accessory exercises
    You don't track strength with BB accessories; you do that with the core 4 movements. Like already said, you do not understand conjugate periodization well enough to haphazardly jump into it.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  5. sorry thats not what i meant to say, i menat i woudl get the strenght work and do bodybuilding accessories.......i decided on the 5/3/1 westside hybrid

    started today

    workout looked liek this

    Squat 5/3/1 DE DL

    Squat
    225x5
    245x5
    255x5

    DL
    235x2x8

    Leg press
    270x15
    270x15
    270x15
    270x17..........also, only go to failure on last set of my hypertrophy work

    Leg Ext.

    100x25
    100x25
    100x23+7 quick reps
    105x22+8 quick reps

    Glute bridge

    245x10
    265x10
    275x10

    seated leg curl

    130x15
    145x9
    135x12
    135x14

    DB RDL

    75x15
    90x8
    90x8

    weighted decline crunches

    30lb 4x10

  6. Why is your squat so low? For DE, you generally want to use ~50% of your 1RM. Unless you have a ~470# pull, then your percentage is off.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  7. squat was 5/3/1/ max squat of 305 is waht ai used (suggested to start from 90% 1RM for 1st mesocycle).....75%,80%,85%
    DL was DE at 60% of 90% 1RM (395)....they site i read said to use 60% wand wave up to 70% by the 3rd week.........quick question what are rest periods for DE...........i was doing 60s, also doing like 2-3min for 5/3/1, thanks

  8. Quote Originally Posted by mkretz View Post
    squat was 5/3/1/ max squat of 305 is waht ai used (suggested to start from 90% 1RM for 1st mesocycle).....75%,80%,85%
    DL was DE at 60% of 90% 1RM (395)....they site i read said to use 60% wand wave up to 70% by the 3rd week.........quick question what are rest periods for DE...........i was doing 60s, also doing like 2-3min for 5/3/1, thanks
    Why did you stop at 5 reps on the last set? This set is AMRAP and not limited to only 5. Regarding DE, you need to do a lot more reading on the topic before you jump into it. What you're asking is easily accessible and conjugate information is everywhere on the internet. You using the 90% of your 1RM recommendation for your DE work shows how little you actually read upon the topic.

    Honestly, you're overcomplicating everything and doing too much. You haven't even run 5/3/1 as written and you've already bastardized the template. Give it 6 months of consistent work with 5/3/1 as written (do yourself a favor and spend $20 on the ebook) before you start to add twists to it. Wendler is about as credible as it gets in the strength world and having the discipline to stick to the template instead of adding useless volume or new elements will benefit you in the long run.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  9. Swap out leg curls for RDL's or something..

  10. you're still doing too much and not in accordance with 5/3/1

    where/why did you come up with those assistance exercises?

    and as Rodja said, your 3rd working set is to be as many reps as possible. if you can only hit 5, then your 1RM may be wrong

    the book tells all. I've seen misleading information on other forums and websites
    Controlled Labs Board Rep
    [email protected]
    CONTROLLED LABS products are produced in a GMP for Sport certified facility.
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  11. Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    Swap out leg curls for RDL's or something..
    and leg ext for something else too
    Controlled Labs Board Rep
    [email protected]
    CONTROLLED LABS products are produced in a GMP for Sport certified facility.

  12. Bro, stick with bench, squats, deads, presses.
    .
    The main point to understand is this, you can go heavy with low volume, but you can NOT go heavy with high volume. You will kill your adrenals and maybe why you are on TRT.

  13. http://www.**********************/wor...ng-system.html this i the site i got my info from........ i did not know it was AMRAP fro the 3rd set........you guys still think thats too much? I used to do way more than that throughout high school training for football and im not much older now, whats the difference? i also woudl then go to basketball practice for 2.5 hours and then go to the gym with my mom afterwards and lift more.....worked well then, got a scholarship to play college football.........dont see how turning 21/22 all of a sudden made it that my body couldnt handle this amount? I coudl understand the amount iw as doing before but i guess i dont grasp how the workout i did yest. can be too much when i used t probably do jsut as much if not more plus 2.5 hours of hard basketball everyday

  14. it's too much. I'll tell you over and over. everyone else that's come to this thread has said the same thing. stop your workout at an hour. if you're taking longer than that-then you're doing too much, not being methodical in how you do your exercises, not following 5/3/1 how it's written, texting on the phone, looking at ass

    as for your last rep, you go all out. that's the set that means the most and that makes you strong. sure that website gives you a quick overview of 5/3/1, but you need to read his book to fully understand it and his training principles. yeah your 4 compound lifts are low rep (even though your 3rd set could vary well be high rep) but he preaches that assistance work should be done 10-20 reps. I promise- if you have 20 bucks and 20 minutes to read it, it will be well worth it. he not only explains the program much better, but also basic principles in strength training.

    http://www.jimwendler.com/2011/12/53...-now-for-sale/
    Controlled Labs Board Rep
    [email protected]
    CONTROLLED LABS products are produced in a GMP for Sport certified facility.

  15. thanks man i really appreciate all the help

  16. Ok, so you are saying that you used to do more in high school....my question is why?
    Why so much training? What is your goal? Why are you stressing your body to the limits?
    Why is your testosterone 100?
    Obviously there is an underlying issue here......bro, a normal person can train half as much as you do, eat less than you do and gain more weight.
    Something is missing here....

  17. it's no prob. I'm not tryin to beat you down here. I did all the homemade bodybuilding splits for years, 6 days a week, 1.5hr long workouts. it did nothing for me. I eventually plateaued and had no direction or progression. 5/3/1 completely changed that for me. merry xmas
    Controlled Labs Board Rep
    [email protected]
    CONTROLLED LABS products are produced in a GMP for Sport certified facility.

  18. Quote Originally Posted by mkretz View Post
    http://www.**********************/wor...ng-system.html this i the site i got my info from........ i did not know it was AMRAP fro the 3rd set........you guys still think thats too much? I used to do way more than that throughout high school training for football and im not much older now, whats the difference? i also woudl then go to basketball practice for 2.5 hours and then go to the gym with my mom afterwards and lift more.....worked well then, got a scholarship to play college football.........dont see how turning 21/22 all of a sudden made it that my body couldnt handle this amount? I coudl understand the amount iw as doing before but i guess i dont grasp how the workout i did yest. can be too much when i used t probably do jsut as much if not more plus 2.5 hours of hard basketball everyday
    It mentions the AMRAP on the last set on that site, but that site falls under the "a little knowledge is very dangerous" category. While 5/3/1 is not overly complicated, there is a lot of information regarding the template and assistance work.

    Regarding training volume, you're on freaking TRT. That should tell you that you were doing something very wrong whether it be underrecovery, AAS usage at a young age, overtraining, etc. and to continue with that course of attack is foolish. While I completely disagree with the one hour recommendation, it should not take more than 90 minutes for any session unless you're training in gear and prepping for a meet.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  19. Quote Originally Posted by vassille View Post
    Ok, so you are saying that you used to do more in high school....my question is why?
    Why so much training? What is your goal? Why are you stressing your body to the limits?
    Why is your testosterone 100?
    Obviously there is an underlying issue here......bro, a normal person can train half as much as you do, eat less than you do and gain more weight.
    Something is missing here....
    maybe not more, i didnt do tons of drop sets and stuff like i had been but i woudl workout before practice, then go to ractice, then workout again, not always but uite often, I did eat alot as well but i dunno its confusing to me.......im gonna give this a run and see how i feel thanks again for all the input and comments form everyone i realy do appreciate as much as i am normally not good with criticism i am taking it as help and really appreciate it, thanks again and have a great holiday!

  20. No homo but you have the AM PL specialist whose been shoving you in the right direction since the first page of posts; listen to the advice he brings; he's not saying it for his own benefit nor is he trying to steer you into a direction that will lead to 'minimal' gains, rather the best gains in a reasonable amount of time.

    Read 5/3/1 until you understand it then rewrite it again if you have to. If you didn't know it was AMRAP then you obviously didn't sit down and really absorb what the template is all about. I beleive 5/3/1 also works off a submaximal 1rm (not true 1rm- perhaps I think 90% of 1rm then all percentages are based off this).

    Read it, learn it, rewrite and repeat.

  21. Not going to go around and beat a dead horse, I believe everyone has already pointed out that your workout is an overkill. I will, though, just point out one thing: if/when you change your workout to a more, let's say, "standard" workout, don't forget to also decrease the amount of calories you eat a little, as you will not be burning as much as you used to while doing 150 reps for chest.

    More is not always better when it comes to workout. 5x5 is a basic, easy, well rounded and very effective training method and would already reduce your workload a ton. Hell, my best gains ever were doing Doggcrapp training on the 4 day a week split, which meant that somedays I would only perform 3 exercises (quad, hammy and calf) and it was by far the most satisfying and short workout I've ever had and also had me doing my best gains ever.
    Androhard + Andromass Log
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-reviews-logs/182038-so-i-decided.html

  22. Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    No homo but you have the AM PL specialist whose been shoving you in the right direction since the first page of posts; listen to the advice he brings; he's not saying it for his own benefit nor is he trying to steer you into a direction that will lead to 'minimal' gains, rather the best gains in a reasonable amount of time.

    Read 5/3/1 until you understand it then rewrite it again if you have to. If you didn't know it was AMRAP then you obviously didn't sit down and really absorb what the template is all about. I beleive 5/3/1 also works off a submaximal 1rm (not true 1rm- perhaps I think 90% of 1rm then all percentages are based off this).

    Read it, learn it, rewrite and repeat.
    for sure , thanks again, im starting to understand it a bit more, workotus have been right around an hour, mabye 1:15

  23. Put it in the fridge lol sorry

  24. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Why did you stop at 5 reps on the last set? This set is AMRAP and not limited to only 5. Regarding DE, you need to do a lot more reading on the topic before you jump into it. What you're asking is easily accessible and conjugate information is everywhere on the internet. You using the 90% of your 1RM recommendation for your DE work shows how little you actually read upon the topic.

    Honestly, you're overcomplicating everything and doing too much. You haven't even run 5/3/1 as written and you've already bastardized the template. Give it 6 months of consistent work with 5/3/1 as written (do yourself a favor and spend $20 on the ebook) before you start to add twists to it. Wendler is about as credible as it gets in the strength world and having the discipline to stick to the template instead of adding useless volume or new elements will benefit you in the long run.
    OP,

    I'm glad you are taking advice but please take all of it. The devil is in the details so to speak. When I mentioned these various training methodologies, the suggestion was to read the why behind the what from the authors of each. Really get in to the theories behind the templates and understand them in their appropriate context for the sake of knowledge. Then select one program and complete it before moving to the next goal.

    I will say that what you are doing now, although technically incorrect and you should listen to rodja, is better than what you had been doing. And remember, even if you stick with your modified routine, you will see progress. But as mentioned, just slinging weights around and eating will cause muscle and strength growth, maximizing your potential through proper application is better, however.

    Just a rhetorical questions to think about, but Wendler and West are both very, very, very accomplished athletes and coaches. What makes you feel experienced enough to modify what they have laid their reputations and careers on the line to create? Both programs are solid yet they are seperate programs. Just like diets take advantage of various metabolic pathways and can look night and day different but get similar results, so do training templates.

    Westside is an advanced strength program. I mentioned I started with a 5x5, later moved to westside and with that base on to bodybuilding. If you like Wendler, do his 5/3/1 and do it alone until you "graduate", then tackle West as strength appears to be your goal at this stage. After that, assuming you do it all correctly, your strength levels will be such that if you move on to bodybuilding routines you will be repping serious weight and with the proper nutrition you will get legitamitely hyooooge.

    More is better at the gym but only in its right time. Be patient, grasshoppa.

  25. Quote Originally Posted by mkretz View Post
    edit for inability to post links this i the site i got my info from........ i did not know it was AMRAP fro the 3rd set........you guys still think thats too much? I used to do way more than that throughout high school training for football and im not much older now, whats the difference? i also woudl then go to basketball practice for 2.5 hours and then go to the gym with my mom afterwards and lift more.....worked well then, got a scholarship to play college football.........dont see how turning 21/22 all of a sudden made it that my body couldnt handle this amount? I coudl understand the amount iw as doing before but i guess i dont grasp how the workout i did yest. can be too much when i used t probably do jsut as much if not more plus 2.5 hours of hard basketball everyday
    The point is how much effort you put in to your lifts. If you are lifting at your max capacity, all the other stuff shouldn't be easy to do, or even possible. Also recovery. Most importantly recovery. At 21-22 you shouldn't need TRT. There are things going on inside your body while it recovers from a weight training session you can't see or necessarily feel but that are crucial to not only making gains but general health. Just trust the experts you've been reading about.

    I like muscle and strength though. Good website overall.

  26. i think im on trty cuz of getting really sick and was like 100lbs in the hospital a few years ago and my entire body jsut shut down....although part of me does think overexercise had a large play into that :-(

  27. Quote Originally Posted by mkretz View Post
    i think im on trty cuz of getting really sick and was like 100lbs in the hospital a few years ago and my entire body jsut shut down....although part of me does think overexercise had a large play into that :-(
    It very well could've. You literally damage your body when you exercise. The strength and size increases are adaptations to the damage, and adaptations have their root in survival. If you don't let yourself recover, a myriad of physical, hormonal and even mental negative effects can surface.

    Think about taking a knife and skinning your arm. The smart thing (other than not doing it, but follow the logic) would be to let it heal. You wouldn't dig in to the cut again and then a third time. You certainly wouldn't start over with the same the following day. Well, inside your body, when you tear your muscles, they need to heal too. Pick the scab all the time and they never will.

    Regarding TRT, regardless of what caused it, at this point just do what the doctor tells you. He has a track on your "pulse" and knows all the details. What's done is done, but as another poster mentioned, don't keep doing the same destructive things. Some people say that is the definition of crazy!

    Also, a common mantra is that you don't grow in the gym, you grow while you sleep. Meaning exercise may be the stimulus to growth but recovery is the key. You aren't letting yourself recover, or weren't. If you like Wendler, do his program and do it alone, the way he wrote it. Give it time and watch your lifts increase, your body recover better and your training and overall health levels improve.

    If you start getting fat, cut back on the food, don't increase the training. Not in your case anyways!

  28. once again i appreciate all the help and insight thanks everyone....tomorrow is def an off day listenin to my body, jsut didint feel right today
  

  
 

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