once you hit macros, where to put extra cals?
- 12-20-2012, 11:14 PM
- 12-20-2012, 11:31 PM
12-21-2012, 08:25 AM
What you need to realize is that throwing weights around and eating will cause muscle and strength growth, especially as a newbie. This doesn't mean throwing the kitchen sink at your routine is the best, most effective method, even if you are seeing gains, and you won't see any renowned coaches or trainers advertising routines that do that for a reason.
My recommendation would be to research some effective training protocols and routines people have been using successfully. Find one that fits your goals (increased strength or hypertrophy?) and actually read the literature behind the routine to understand the why behind the what.
As you become more knowledgeable, building your own effective routines will be a viable option.
If you are deadset on your exercise selection, at least split the heavy weight work and the high rep work in to seperate sessions. And drop the bands, just go heavy with a spotter for now.
And of course... Joe Weider.
Read through these guys philosophies and absorb. You'll see a variety of training theories and methodologies but will understand their appropriate application.
I realize that this is about diet though. Once I hit my macros, if I still need to hit a higher calorie level, I typically fill my gap with the same macro ratios I'm shooting for, just more of them all together.
12-21-2012, 08:33 AM
Great advice above. I used to drive myself crazy making up my own splits trying to hit everything twice a week. Random rep ranges, no structure to my sessions, no progression, overtraining, coming on the boards asking "this routine work? what about this one I made up" I did that for years and never progressed how I have once commiting to a structured program. I'm not smart-Ill leave it to the guys that are bigger and smarter than me to tell me what to do.
12-21-2012, 10:53 AM
12-21-2012, 08:34 PM
thanks for all the advice guys i really appreciate it, i will def work on decreasing trianing volume, today i limited mysel to 1.5horus with warmups so thats t least an hour shorter than normalso im happy.
in regards to gas leftin the tank honestly itdepends on the day but somedayim whooped and need aLOT of preworkout to getthrough, esp, some leg days, droppin to the floor after drop sets on suats and leg pressesand hacks...........legs sore for a week.......
i did teh layne norton power/hypertrphy split fora whle and lovedit but i had a partner and a psotter for those heavy days, i dont have that anymore ewhich sux!
12-21-2012, 08:35 PM
I do want to get stronger but i woudl say my main focus is to get bigger (hypertrophy)........what recommendations as regard to programs do you have? thanks again
12-21-2012, 08:49 PM
any program by the people mentioned above
you gettin bigger depends on your diet, and not burning all 4,000 cals like you have been.
12-21-2012, 09:00 PM
and your workouts shouldn't be dictated by how much prewo you take.
12-21-2012, 09:59 PM
12-21-2012, 10:20 PM
12-22-2012, 01:52 PM
Time the Extra Macros
I usually eat in the 3,500-4,000 range when growing, and I try to keep protein below 280g to reduce potential kidney strain. I have read that whey protein, fish and fowl are all neutral on kidneys, and I try to lean to those protein sources. But better safe than sorry. Of all the three macros, protein is the least desirable as an *energy* source, so just take the amount you need to create a nitrogen-rich environment for muscle repair and building. Don't take so much that your body is forced to get a big portion of its energy from protein.
For the rest of the macros, I prefer to go heavier on the fat. A feeding of fat contains double the calories per gram, and burns longer and steadier throughout the day. When you're eating that much fat, though, you want to pay attention to the quality of the fats. Get most of the excess fat from olive oil, and get in a good amount of Omega-3 and MCT (don't overdo either one, though.) You can add two teaspoons of olive oil in with a scoop of whey powder in cold water and stir; morning and night gives you an extra 500 calories a day of fat. Get another 4 tbsp by putting extra on salads, tuna, using olive oil to brown your ground beef in the morning, etc. and you're up to 1,000 calories a day from olive oil alone. 8 tbsp a day is a pretty good target, in my experience. Then you have 1 tbsp MCT (max) in your coffee, a few tablespoons of butter, and the fat that comes naturally in your meat. That's a lot of calories. Try to minimize vegetable and soy oil.
High-carb intake comes immediately after your workouts, up to 4 times per week. This can be more processed sugary or starchy carbs as long as you worked out really hard. Then there is room for additional carb intake on the days of your heaviest workouts (2-3 days a week) where you eat carbs throughout the day. Stack the carbs toward things like yams and oats. Then on the 3 non-workout days, drop carbs to much lower levels. Beyond that, just avoid mixing carbs and fat in the same meal. That is, on your high-carb meals, keep the fat to a minimum. And when you're eating high-fat meals with butter, olive oil, etc. just avoid any carbs.
It sounds kind of complicated, but it's not that hard. It's like "Is today one of my hardest workouts? If so, go ahead and have oats and yams in the morning with salmon, fruit juice and whey after the workout, and then lots of carbs and protein during the day", or "Is today a non-workout day? If so, chug olive oil and eat sardines and avoid any carbs that aren't veggies".
Anyway, what I am describing is just "carb cycling", and carb cycling isn't for everyone. You can go the other direction, and aim for low fat by increasing protein and carbs. I think the main thing is still to avoid mixing carbs and fat in the same meal.
12-22-2012, 01:55 PM
ALL protein, regardless of source, puts some strain through the kidneys. Look up PRAL for further information regarding protein and renal stress.
M.Ed. Ex Phys
12-22-2012, 03:00 PM
It's been a while since I was a beginner and even then I started lifting in jr. high for our athletics programs so I always had some guidance. I don't know of many beginner bodybuilding programs (hypertrophy). They could be out there en masse but I think it's because you have to have a basis of strength and know how to really get in to a hypertrophy program to begin with. Maybe some others will chime in though.
I can't post links which is highly annoying and don't remember the name of another thread I'm posting in but regarding strength I mentioned buildin a foundation over there.
Essentially, Think about dinner. You can lift a fork 100 times and not induce hypertrophy. Imagine squatting 200 pounds for reps and then imagine squatting 400 pounds for reps. The higher level of strength alone will increase your capacity for size.
I am willing to bet you are a beginner for all practical intents and purposes and should start with Bill Starrs 5x5 or Mark Rippetoe's variation of it until you hit at least intermediate strength levels.*
From there I would recommend Bill Wests Westside method to gain appreciable strength and then a bulking plan known as Doggcrap for your hypertophy. It will let you eat a **** ton too, don't worry.
You can't build a house without a foundation. Get your squats, deadlifts, bench and overhead presses up to par with the programs above. I would also recommend a website called exrx dot net. (still can't post links) They have charts outlining beginner,intermediate, advanced guidelines and definitions to place yourself in the right program plus a ton of useful, practical info.
* I recommend 5x5, westside and doggcrap because that's what I have used. I still do. I cycle through routines as the year goes on personally. Strength in the fall, bulk in the winter, cut during spring and 5x5 (with personal tweaks and additions at this point) in the summer. You need to do whatever your chosen strength routine tells you until it's over, then assess where you are experience wise and plan your next move accordingly.
These days I do tweak routines or make up my own to bring up lagging body parts et cetera but highly recommend getting on pre-planned routines for at least a few years. The selection work is already done for you and you will learn alot as you go. Jim Wendler's 531 is super popular right now for strength, Big Beyond Belief is a great one for hypertrophy with a few templates designed for varying experience levels too.
I know my post is long winded but to wrap up:
1. Build strength first (what are your numbers?) - Starr, Wendler, West, Ripptoe, Tate
2. Pick a hypertrophy plan when you have the strength to actually make it worthwhile - Weider, Jones, Trudel (Doggcrap), Costa (big beyond belief)
Don't rush to number two. Routines geared to strength will still build muscle mass. You just need your emphasis on strength first. Bodybuilding is a marathon made up of lots and lots of sprints.
12-22-2012, 11:55 PM
thanks alot for that post man! i feel my strength is decent, not as good as it was when i was playin college football but bench is almost 1.5x bw, squat i 2x bw and dl is almost 2.5x bw
i was thinking of starting layne nortons power/hypertrophy split routinewhat do u guys think about that
12-23-2012, 01:16 AM
12-23-2012, 09:43 AM
I am going to make a seperate post of this, but I have tried several of Matt Kroc's workouts from T-Nation and they are some of the best I ve ever done. They cross post them hiere is the news letter quite often.
Formutech Nutrition Rep --------------Team IronClad Physiques!!!
www.formutechnutrition.com------------------ NPC Competitor
12-23-2012, 10:23 AM
You probably don't need that many calories. Just consistency and time.
Your body can only digest and absorb so much at once, and I would imagine that there's absolutely no way whatsoever that your body is making full use of 5000 calories worth of food. No way.
When I was younger and bulking, I'd try to go overboard. Then as I got older, I realized that I could make equal progress by eating substantially less. As in, I used to shoot for 3500-4000 calories per day, then realized that I could make the same progress at closer to 2600ish.
Eating 5000 calories is just going to make you feel like you've got another full time job on your hands. Not to mention feeling like ****. It's easy to go overboard.
12-23-2012, 10:24 AM
Get on a natty test boosting stack so you're test is elevated allowing you to put on mass a little easier. That way, you'll feel great, be putting on muscle mass, and not have to be eating like a horse all the time.
12-23-2012, 10:57 AM
I believe he's on TRT.
12-23-2012, 01:12 PM
12-23-2012, 01:17 PM
Take a look at Wendler's 5/3/1. It's simple. You can get strong and big at the same time and no more of your 60 set chest workouts.
12-23-2012, 07:39 PM
I'm not familiar with the routine but if it matches your goals, go for it!
Oops, edit, the layne norton routine
12-23-2012, 10:07 PM
i like layne nortons routine b/c it gives you the strength training as well as the hypertrpphy as the week goes along.....
12-23-2012, 10:08 PM
and yes i am on trt so i dont know if any test boosters woudl do anything...although i had some people tell me erase and endosurge would still help
12-23-2012, 10:37 PM
Lower your volume to a more reasonable level and you probably won't need the TRT. That volume of training takes a huge toll on your levels.
M.Ed. Ex Phys
12-23-2012, 11:07 PM
yea.....ive thought of that beingthe reason myhormones areall messed up.although without the trt i literallyproduced lieknothing, mylevelswere like100 if that
12-23-2012, 11:12 PM
12-23-2012, 11:28 PM
12-23-2012, 11:29 PM
right now im torn between 5/3/1 and westside, althoguh i do like layne nortons split because it lets me train 5 days instead of 4 :-)
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