TOO much protein?

Thomasxavier

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Is there such a thing?

What would too much protein a day cause?

And secondly, is there such a thing as too much protein while on a testosterone cycle
 

ThunderHumper

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well on cycle is a total mystery. but 80% of everyone on any fitness forum will throw out that 1.5-2g per lb of body weight bull****. after all, more is better right?
 

Thomasxavier

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well on cycle is a total mystery. but 80% of everyone on any fitness forum will throw out that 1.5-2g per lb of body weight bull****. after all, more is better right?
Can protein make you fat? o_O
 
breezy11

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Too many calories (over your maintenance level) coming from protein, carbs, or fats can cause you to add body fat.

A lot of excess protein can put added stress on your kidneys as well.
 
Celorza

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Too many calories (over your maintenance level) coming from protein, carbs, or fats can cause you to add body fat.

A lot of excess protein can put added stress on your kidneys as well.
Sums up the answer, caloric surplus generates mass gains, it can be lean body mass or fat mass...but lets be real, when on a high surplus it will always yield a body fat gain.
 

PuZo

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Sums up the answer, caloric surplus generates mass gains, it can be lean body mass or fat mass...but lets be real, when on a high surplus it will always yield a body fat gain.
+1..
 
threeFs

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Too many people neglect fat and overcompensate with protein
 

Thomasxavier

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Can you overdose protein while on a testosterone cycle
 
hvactech

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Can you overdose protein while on a testosterone cycle
Wether your on a test cycle or not excess protein isnt always a good thing. I stay at 1g per lean mass, why do you say "overdose"? Its not like you'll wake up in a hospital with tubes in your throat
 

Thomasxavier

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How much do you weigh? What are your macro splits? What are your goals? Why are you so concerned with overdosing?
Sorry about my wording. By overdosing, I mean using enough that it translates to fat.

I weigh 177 right now, and am 5'11. My goal is to get up to 190, then cut down to around 8% bodyfat. I am currently at around 13%.

My macros are along the lines of 70% protein a day, 20% carbs and 10% fat. I can tell by your earlier post that you will yell at me for this.




Wether your on a test cycle or not excess protein isnt always a good thing. I stay at 1g per lean mass, why do you say "overdose"? Its not like you'll wake up in a hospital with tubes in your throat

What would you consider excessive amounts of protein, if I am 177 lbs and on a 600mg a week test cyp cycle
 
threeFs

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on cycle or not, your macros are whack. How did you decide on those? 40/30/30 c/f/p. Lift heavy. Some of your gain will be fat. That's just how it works. The inverse is also true.
 

Thomasxavier

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Should I add a few teaspoons of olive oil a day? How many would you guys recommend?
 
threeFs

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you need a macro tracker. I use my fitness pal but there are others as well.
 

ThunderHumper

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shouldnt you already know basic nutrition before going on a cycle?
 

ThunderHumper

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Rhetorical questions provide no insight. Let me demonstrate

Aren't you too young to be on a forum about steroids?
arnt you? your the one making the stupid threads with the newby questions. my sccount actually shows my age

heres one for you
shouldnt you learn how to exercise before using steroids?
 

SweetLou321

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no he isnt, now go read about nutrition.
 
ZiR RED

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Fact - One pound of mammal muscle contains about 140 grams of protein: The rest (in order of mass) is water, fats, and carbohydrates.
Fact - It requires approximately 2500-3000 additional kcal to biosynthesize one pound of human muscle
Fact - No published study (and there are 1000's of them out there) shows any benefit WRT to strength or muscle mass when protein consumption exceeds 1 g/lb of body weight.

Within your muscles you have anabolic capacity and anabolic efficiency. Its more about those latter two terms, along with sufficient energy intake that will dictate muscle gains. Consuming an excess of protein will:
A. Decrease wallet size
B. Be deaminated (remove the nitrogen) to ultimately form glucose or fatty acids
C. Increase the work of the kidneys to filter and excrete the excess nitrogen (ammonia)
D. Decrease blood pH resulting in a state of mild chronic metabolic acidosis
E. Which will then result in the excretion of calcium and phosphorus in an attempt to maintain blood pH
F. All of the above are not good.

Br
C.
 

ThunderHumper

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Fact - One pound of mammal muscle contains about 140 grams of protein: The rest (in order of mass) is water, fats, and carbohydrates.
Fact - It requires approximately 2500-3000 additional kcal to biosynthesize one pound of human muscle
Fact - No published study (and there are 1000's of them out there) shows any benefit WRT to strength or muscle mass when protein consumption exceeds 1 g/lb of body weight.

Within your muscles you have anabolic capacity and anabolic efficiency. Its more about those latter two terms, along with sufficient energy intake that will dictate muscle gains. Consuming an excess of protein will:
A. Decrease wallet size
B. Be deaminated (remove the nitrogen) to ultimately form glucose or fatty acids
C. Increase the work of the kidneys to filter and excrete the excess nitrogen (ammonia)
D. Decrease blood pH resulting in a state of mild chronic metabolic acidosis
E. Which will then result in the excretion of calcium and phosphorus in an attempt to maintain blood pH
F. All of the above are not good.

Br
C.
now do you know anything on the myth of protein synthesis while on cycle? i always agreed on 1g/lb body weight, you just solidified my thoughts
 
hvactech

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now do you know anything on the myth of protein synthesis while on cycle? i always agreed on 1g/lb body weight, you just solidified my thoughts
Ive used 1g per lean mass with out any problems. Also curious about being on cycle increases synthesis
 
ZiR RED

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now do you know anything on the myth of protein synthesis while on cycle? i always agreed on 1g/lb body weight, you just solidified my thoughts
Anabolic efficiency and capacity are increased, to what extent, we don't know.

Based on anecdotal evidence, after the water retention is lost, one might gain say 10-15 pounds of muscle on a 10 week cycle? That would equate to an additional 210 grams of protein synthesized into muscle each week for 15 pounds in 10 weeks. In reality, that's about 30-40 grams of extra protein a day. Its supplying the fuel for the biological work that becomes important, or consuming the 4000-5000 calories per week above what is needed to fuel workouts and daily life that I think is most important. What macronutrient that energy comes from (hopefully fat or carbohydrates) should depend on the individual.
 
JudoJosh

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Fact - One pound of mammal muscle contains about 140 grams of protein: The rest (in order of mass) is water, fats, and carbohydrates.
Fact - It requires approximately 2500-3000 additional kcal to biosynthesize one pound of human muscle
Fact - No published study (and there are 1000's of them out there) shows any benefit WRT to strength or muscle mass when protein consumption exceeds 1 g/lb of body weight.

Within your muscles you have anabolic capacity and anabolic efficiency. Its more about those latter two terms, along with sufficient energy intake that will dictate muscle gains. Consuming an excess of protein will:
A. Decrease wallet size
B. Be deaminated (remove the nitrogen) to ultimately form glucose or fatty acids
C. Increase the work of the kidneys to filter and excrete the excess nitrogen (ammonia)
D. Decrease blood pH resulting in a state of mild chronic metabolic acidosis
E. Which will then result in the excretion of calcium and phosphorus in an attempt to maintain blood pH
F. All of the above are not good.

Br
C.
Oh my... seems like you are demonizing a high pro diet here. while it may not lead to any more gains over other diets, it certainly isn't as detrimental as you are impyling. Also not everyone goes on a high pro diet for "teh gainz"

A. I would rather spend more money on meat then nutrient void pasta
B. Not necessarily a bad thing. Glucogenesis isn't evil
C. Healthy normal functioning kdneys are perfectly capable of handling a higher pro diet
D. Eat more veggies
E. See D
F. None of which are really that bad

;)
 
OrganicShadow

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1. This isn't a forum about steroids, although that information can be found here. Not only are you in the nutrition/health posting but anabolic "simply means to be building. Chicken and sweet potatos are anabolic.
2. Not enough fats, far too much protein. a 40/40/20 OR 40/30/30 C/P/F is a good ratio for building up. You need all three to properly create new muscle tissue.
3. Kidney stress from excess protein, although possible but unlikely, causes cell damage and stones from uric acid, calcium, or phosphorous.


-OS-Team AppNut
 

ThunderHumper

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Ive used 1g per lean mass with out any problems. Also curious about being on cycle increases synthesis
yea i always preached 1g/lb on cycle as well.

thanks for the answer there dr

and the reason they demonize high protein diets is because its been blown WAY out of proportion by the typical meatheads. think about it. on every forum, including this one, 95% of every advice given about protein suggest 250-350g per day or 1.5-2g/lb bodyweight. i dont even know where people get those numbers, but its pretty stupid. would they follow a cow off a cliff too?
 
hvactech

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This is all I will say on the topic. If 1gr/lb of bodyweight was sufficient while on cycle, pro bodybuilders would consume ~250gr/day. They usually consume 400-500gr/ day. Take it for what it's worth but I think they have a pretty good handle on nutrition
Its hard to compare a pro bodybuilder to the average bodybuilding hobbiest, the pro's i follow also train twice a day which adds to alot of calorie expidenture.
 

ThunderHumper

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This is all I will say on the topic. If 1gr/lb of bodyweight was sufficient while on cycle, pro bodybuilders would consume ~250gr/day. They usually consume 400-500gr/ day. Take it for what it's worth but I think they have a pretty good handle on nutrition
well yeah but they also shoot themselves with 2-6000mg test/week along with other hormones to improve their physique. they dont count as part of the typical lifters like 99.9% of the people on forums. and since we established there is some kind of protein synthesis increase while on cycle, there's would be much higher due to their advanced cycling protocol
 
Distilled Water

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If I'm not mistaken the question was about protein intake on cycle? Not training volume, not advanced protocols, not "typical forum lifters". I'll even reduce the specific's of my original statement. As I understand its hard to relate professional level athletes to amateur athletes. My apologies....

If 1gr/lb of body weight was sufficient. Anyone who was on cycle and on stage between 175-195lbs would only consume the equal amount of protein. They do not, their intakes are closer to 300-400gr. Can we agree one who steps on stage at the top of a middle weight class is not a professional level bodybuilder, typically?

I'm just trying to give some clarity on the issue. This forum is supposed to be for discussion and it drives me nuts when I see people getting excited and being brash over a silly subject.
 
hvactech

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Well to each is their own i guess.
 
ZiR RED

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Oh my... seems like you are demonizing a high pro diet here. while it may not lead to any more gains over other diets, it certainly isn't as detrimental as you are impyling. Also not everyone goes on a high pro diet for "teh gainz"

A. I would rather spend more money on meat then nutrient void pasta
B. Not necessarily a bad thing. Glucogenesis isn't evil
C. Healthy normal functioning kdneys are perfectly capable of handling a higher pro diet
D. Eat more veggies
E. See D
F. None of which are really that bad

;)
This is all true, and personally, I probably consume excess protein myself...but not out of an attempt to improve performance, but for what you mentioned in counter to my "wallet" point - the enjoyment of being a carnivore.

Br
 

uvawahoowa

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Fact - One pound of mammal muscle contains about 140 grams of protein: The rest (in order of mass) is water, fats, and carbohydrates.
Fact - It requires approximately 2500-3000 additional kcal to biosynthesize one pound of human muscle
Fact - No published study (and there are 1000's of them out there) shows any benefit WRT to strength or muscle mass when protein consumption exceeds 1 g/lb of body weight.

Within your muscles you have anabolic capacity and anabolic efficiency. Its more about those latter two terms, along with sufficient energy intake that will dictate muscle gains. Consuming an excess of protein will:
A. Decrease wallet size
B. Be deaminated (remove the nitrogen) to ultimately form glucose or fatty acids
C. Increase the work of the kidneys to filter and excrete the excess nitrogen (ammonia)
D. Decrease blood pH resulting in a state of mild chronic metabolic acidosis
E. Which will then result in the excretion of calcium and phosphorus in an attempt to maintain blood pH
F. All of the above are not good.

Br
C.
Ok but as long as you're hitting your minimum needs for carbs/protein/fat it won't matter if your surplus cals come from carbs, protein, or fat. Ie 400/100/400 would yield approx the same results as 600/100/200 c/f/p for a 150 lb person wrt body composition (only difference would be in the thermic effect of feeding)
 
ZiR RED

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Ok but as long as you're hitting your minimum needs for carbs/protein/fat it won't matter if your surplus cals come from carbs, protein, or fat. Ie 400/100/400 would yield approx the same results as 600/100/200 c/f/p for a 150 lb person wrt body composition (only difference would be in the thermic effect of feeding)
That's an interesting question. The thermic effect of protein is about 25% compared to 10 and 4 for carbs and fats, respectively. Which means, if you are relying on protein for calories to fuel protein synthesis, you likely need to consume 125% what you calculate to make up for it. Additionally, the cost of gluconeogenesis, depending on what the demands are might increase that number as well. At least, that is how my train of thought goes...
 

uvawahoowa

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That's an interesting question. The thermic effect of protein is about 25% compared to 10 and 4 for carbs and fats, respectively. Which means, if you are relying on protein for calories to fuel protein synthesis, you likely need to consume 125% what you calculate to make up for it. Additionally, the cost of gluconeogenesis, depending on what the demands are might increase that number as well. At least, that is how my train of thought goes...
Wouldnt the difference be pretty negligible though? Even with a large increase in protein and corresponding decrease in carbs, maybe 100 cals/day at most?
 
ZiR RED

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Wouldnt the difference be pretty negligible though? Even with a large increase in protein and corresponding decrease in carbs, maybe 100 cals/day at most?
Yes, you can figure 100 kcals expended in digestion, absoprtion and gng for each 100g of protein consumed. For someone "bulking" likely not a big deal, for someone who is trying to gain very slowly and leanly, might be worth taking into consideration.
 

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Hi everyone!!According to me Too many calories (over your maintenance level) coming from protein, carbs, or fats can cause you to add body fat.
 

Thomasxavier

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Very informative thank you. I was just told and read repeatedly on many different forums that one should intake ~300g of protein a day while doing a test cycle.
 
hvactech

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Very informative thank you. I was just told and read repeatedly on many different forums that one should intake ~300g of protein a day while doing a test cycle.
That statement is irrelevant in terms of what should be consumed. A person 150lbs compared to someone 275 is a large difference.
 

Thomasxavier

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I've ranged from 159 to 177 during this cycle so far, what do you think I should aim for brother
 
hvactech

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Im using 1g per bodyweight, im 183 and get 180-200 grams. Been on cycle for 2 weeks and havent had a problem making gains. Its trial and error really
 
LiveToLift

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In before the battle!
 

Thomasxavier

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Im using 1g per bodyweight, im 183 and get 180-200 grams. Been on cycle for 2 weeks and havent had a problem making gains. Its trial and error really
What's your goal? You cutting?
 
WPChickDiesel

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Can protein make you fat? o_O
Technically any for of calories (energy) that is not absorbed and utilized by the body can turn into fat. However, fat cannot turn into muscle!

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner
 
WPChickDiesel

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Wether your on a test cycle or not excess protein isnt always a good thing. I stay at 1g per lean mass, why do you say "overdose"? Its not like you'll wake up in a hospital with tubes in your throat
^haha! Warning: Bulking can be fatal! Lol

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Sorry for the long post but I don't have enough posts here yet to be allowed to post links so I'm going to copy and paste are article from Precision Nutrition's website. It's written by Dr. John Berardi, worth reading and looking in to his credentials if you aren't familiar:


Two recent studies have shaken up the weight lifting and athletic worlds with respect to protein intake. For those research geeks among you, here are the references:

Ingested protein dose response of muscle and albumin protein synthesis after resistance exercise in young men. Am J Clin Nutr. 2009.

A moderate serving of high-quality protein maximally stimulates skeletal muscle protein synthesis in young and elderly subjects. Journal of the American Dietetic Association, 2009

So, what did these landmark studies show?

Well, the first study showed that when college-aged weight-trainers drink 0g, 5g, 10g, 20g, or 40g of protein after a weight training session, muscle protein synthesis is stimulated maximally at the 20g dose. Interestingly, there were no further increases in muscle protein synthesis at the 40g dose.

Similarly, in the second study, when young and elderly volunteers were given 30 or 90g of dietary protein in a single meal, the 30g dose maximally stimulated muscle protein synthesis. Again, there were no further increases in muscle protein synthesis at the 90g dose.

20-30 Grams and No More

Oddly, since the publication of these two studies, I’ve read no less than 2 dozen articles and blog posts suggesting that these two studies definitively close the case on protein intake. Indeed, some authors have even suggested that we’re ignorant wastrels if we dare eat more than 20-30g of protein in a single sitting.

Here are a few quotes:

“So basically what you’re saying is that we don’t need to consume any more than 20g of high quality protein after exercise. You could get that in a 500ml serving of milk…This info is really going to piss off a bunch of internet keyboard jockeys.”

“I’ve cut back on the amount of protein I eat during most meals…No more slogging down 50-60g in a sitting. “

“Looks like 3 eggs post workout is just as effective as drinking a protein shake. Plus all that extra shake will be wasted.”

And so on…

Is Muscle The Only Reason We Eat Protein?

Now, while I can always appreciate a good muscle protein synthesis study, I sorta wonder if all the hoopla regarding these two studies is doing healthy eaters a service or not.

I mean, it’s definitely a good thing to discover that 30g of protein provides the upper limit of amino acids necessary for maximal protein synthesis at a particular point in time. However, the important, big-picture question is this one…is building muscle the only reason we eat protein?

I think not.

Challenging the notion that eating more than 30g in a sitting is wasteful, here are a few thoughts I sent to a group of colleagues:

1) What Else Will You Eat?
Let’s say you’re on a high calorie diet. Maybe you’re into bodybuilding or you’re training for an athletic event. And now you limit your protein intake to 20-30g per meal. What else do you fill up with? Carbs or fats?

Let’s take an example. Say you’re eating 4000-4500kcal per day for competition, which many larger lifers and athletes will need to do. And let’s say, because of these studies, you limit your protein intake to 5 meals of 20g each. In the end you’ll be getting 100g and 400kcal from protein.

Well, that’s 8% of your diet. What makes up the other 92%? If you’re loading up with that many carbs or fats, body comp can suffer. Remember, the protein is being replaced by macronutrients with lower thermic effects (more on this below).

2) What About The Other Benefits?
Muscle protein synthesis isn’t the only reason to eat more protein. There’s satiety, the thermogenic effects, the impact on the immune system, and more (see below).

Plus, there are probably a few benefits science can’t measure yet. I say the last part because there’s so much experiential evidence suggesting that when you’re training hard and you up your protein, you do better. So maybe we just haven’t looked in the right places to notice the real benefits


Other Protein Benefits


In an article I wrote a few years back, I listed some of the benefits of eating more protein. And although the article is a few years old, nothing’s really changed since then. Here’s the list:

Increased Thermic Effect of Feeding — While all macronutrients require metabolic processing for digestion, absorption, and storage or oxidation, the thermic effect of protein is roughly double that of carbohydrates and fat. Therefore, eating protein is actually thermogenic and can lead to a higher metabolic rate. This means greater fat loss when dieting and less fat gain during overfeeding/muscle building.

Increased Glucagon — Protein consumption increases plasma concentrations of the hormone glucagon. Glucagon is responsible for antagonizing the effects of insulin in adipose tissue, leading to greater fat mobilization. In addition, glucagon also decreases the amounts and activities of the enzymes responsible for making and storing fat in adipose and liver cells. Again, this leads to greater fat loss during dieting and less fat gain during overfeeding.

Metabolic Pathway Adjustment – When a higher protein (20-50% of intake) is followed, a host of metabolic adjustments occur. These include: a down regulation of glycolysis, a reduction in fatty acid synthesis enzymes, increase in gluconeogenesis, a carbohydrate “draining” effect where carbons necessary for ridding the body of amino nitrogen is drawn from glucose.

Increased IGF-1 — Protein and amino-acid supplementation has been shown to increase the IGF-1 response to both exercise and feeding. Since IGF-1 is an anabolic hormone that’s related to muscle growth, another advantage associated with consuming more protein is more muscle growth when overfeeding and/or muscle sparing when dieting.

Reduction in Cardiovascular Risk — Several studies have shown that increasing the percentage of protein in the diet (from 11% to 23%) while decreasing the percentage of carbohydrate (from 63% to 48%) lowers LDL cholesterol and triglyceride concentrations with concomitant increases in HDL cholesterol concentrations.

Improved Weight-Loss Profile —Research by Layman and colleagues has demonstrated that reducing the carbohydrate ratio from 3.5 – 1 to 1.4 – 1 increases body fat loss, spares muscle mass, reduces triglyceride concentrations, improves satiety, and improves blood glucose management (Layman et al 2003 — If you’re at all interested in protein intake, you’ve gotta go read the January and February issues of the Journal of Nutrition. Layman has three interesting articles in the two journals).

Increased Protein Turnover — All tissues of the body, including muscle, go through a regular program of turnover. Since the balance between protein breakdown and protein synthesis governs muscle protein turnover, you need to increase your protein turnover rates in order to best improve your muscle quality. A high protein diet does just this. By increasing both protein synthesis and protein breakdown, a high protein diet helps you get rid of the old muscle more quickly and build up new, more functional muscle to take its place.

Increased Nitrogen Status — Earlier I indicated that a positive nitrogen status means that more protein is entering the body than is leaving the body. High protein diets cause a strong positive protein status and when this increased protein availability is coupled with an exercise program that increases the body’s anabolic efficiency, the growth process may be accelerated.

Increased Provision of Auxiliary Nutrients — Although the benefits mentioned above have related specifically to protein and amino acids, it’s important to recognize that we don’t just eat protein and amino acids — we eat food. Therefore, high protein diets often provide auxiliary nutrients that could enhance performance and/or muscle growth. These nutrients include creatine, branched chain amino acids, conjugated linoleic acids, and/or additional nutrients that are important but remain to be discovered. And don’t forget the vitamins and minerals we get from protein rich foods. (And lest anyone think I’m a shill for the protein powder industry, this last point clearly illustrates the need to get most of your protein from food, rather than supplements.)

Looking over this list of benefits, it’s hard to ignore the fact that we don’t just eat protein for its muscle synthetic effect. We eat protein for a bunch of other reasons too. And since a higher protein diet can lead to a better health profile, an increased metabolism, improved body composition, and an improved training response, why would anyone ever try to limit their protein intake to the bare minimum?

Take-Home Message

It seems to me that whether someone’s on a hypoenergetic diet (low calorie) or a hyperenergetic diet (high calorie), the one macronutrient they would want to be sure to “overeat” (relatively speaking) would be protein.

But that’s not what people do, is it? Instead, their protein prejudice often leads them to look for what they consider the bare minimum of protein (whether it’s 20-30g/meal or 0.8g/kg/day), and then overeat carbohydrates and fats instead. That could prove to be a performance – and body composition – mistake.

To this end, my advice is:

Women – 1 serving of lean, complete protein (20-30g) with each meal, every 3 hours or so
Men – 2 servings of lean, complete protein (40-60g) with each meal, every 3 hours or so

This pattern of intake will make sure you’re getting enough protein to reap all the benefits that this macronutrient has to offer. Not just the protein synthetic benefits.
 
hvactech

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Mehhhh
 
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