Fasting - which of these would you choose?

[RogerBob]

I have done LeanGains fasting, and it seems to work well, but i feel it seems to level out after a while.

Which of the following do you think is most effective? I really want a six pack before I die!

Im doing cardio on days in btween my weights workouts, taking tt-33, and watching what I eat, and im seeing gains, I now want to add some fasting to the mix:


Alternate day fasting (ADF)

(36-hour fast/12-hour feed)

With this plan you simply eat every other day. So on Monday, you’d eat within a 12-hour window, say, 8 AM to 8 PM. Then you’d fast overnight on Monday, and all day/overnight on Tuesday. You’d eat again from 8 AM to 8 PM on Wednesday. And so on. Alternate day fasters are encouraged to make good eating choices, but they’re allowed to eat what they want on the non-fasting days.
Meal-skipping

(Random)

Some IF proponents believe we should behave like our evolutionary ancestors did. As humans evolved to get their food and exercise randomly, so should we. This brand of IF includes eating unprocessed “evolutionary friendly” food (think Paleo-diet type), randomly cycling daily calorie intake, and randomly skipping a breakfast or dinner meal once or twice a week. The rules are very flexible. (It is random, after all.)
Eat Stop Eat

(24-hour fast, 1 or 2 times per week)

On this plan, you fast for a full 24 hours once or twice per week, eating sensibly (higher protein, minimizing processed foods, etc.) the rest of the week. It’s flexible: You can choose whichever 24 hours you want. Want to fast from breakfast to breakfast? That’s cool. Just eat breakfast on Monday, and don’t eat again until breakfast on Tuesday. Want to fast dinner to dinner? That’s cool too. Eat dinner on Wednesday, and don’t eat again until dinner on Thursday.
Leangains

(16-hour fast/8-hour feed)

This brand of fasting is based on an 8-hour feeding period followed by a 16-hour fast. However, it also layers a few other food rules on top. The diet should be high in protein, should cycle carbohydrates, should include fasted training, and should use nutrient timing (eating the bulk of your calories during the post-exercise period). On this plan, you fast from, say, 9 PM on Monday night until 1 PM on Tuesday afternoon. If you’re going to exercise, you’d do so just before 1 PM on Tuesday, with 10 g BCAAs (branched chain amino acids) during training. After training, you eat 2-3 meals before 9 PM, with your biggest meal coming right after exercise. The fast begins again on Tuesday evening until Wednesday at 1 PM, and repeats every day.
Warrior Diet

(20-hour fast/4-hour feed)

On this plan, you would either fast, or eat very small amounts of specifically recommended foods, for the first 20 hours of each day, working out during this period of under eating. Then, you would eat the majority of your daily intake within a 4-hour over feeding window. After that 4-hour over feeding period, you would repeat the under eating/fasting for the next 20 hours. Generally, most people place their 4-hour over feeding window at the end of the day, as it’s more convenient for family dinners and after-work training sessions. However, modifications can be made based on individual and scheduling differences.

 

[Bolanrox]

i've always been a fan of the longer fasting on non training days. and 16ish hour fasts on training days.

I've been doing daylight fasts just about every day, mainly to see if i could do it, and have not seen any huge changes in weight one way or the other (mirror looks better but measurement wise it's on the same track as it had been prior).

IMHO of course!

 

[huggy77]

i've always been a fan of the longer fasting on non training days. and 16ish hour fasts on training days.

I've been doing daylight fasts just about every day, mainly to see if i could do it, and have not seen any huge changes in weight one way or the other (mirror looks better but measurement wise it's on the same track as it had been prior).

IMHO of course!

Been doing the same. Non weight days about 19-20 hours, low carb... on weight training days about 16 hours, high carb.

 

[Mainevant]

Currently I'm doing 16-8 system and I'm very happy with the progress that I've made.
Sometimes I even make 24 hour fast if I have lots stuff to do and I'm not training.
But for me 16-8 system is the best.

You have to think how you schedule is going and than make a pick!

 

[Titration]

Why are you doing lean gains? If you don't mind me asking.

 

[jswain34]

Why is it that u just keep flaming lg in every thread? If u don't mind me asking. Its obvious that it works, look at the results people are getting with it dude. Not only that, but its so much easier than having to worry about eating every 2-3 hours (which also works for some people) but the group of people that choose to do lean gains and intermittent fast find this lifestyle to better suit them, and that's really all that matters.

 

[Mainevant]

It's not an easy system but when u get involved in it you will love it!

 

[Titration]

How am I flaming? I haven't disrespected anyone in anyways, if I have, I'm sorry. Although, of course any diet with a caloric defecit will produce results, it's simple thermodynamics. If you prefer to eat once a day then fine, but it doesn't produce better results than 2,3,4 etc meals per day. Even I only eat 2-3 times per day. No flaming at all, it was just a question.

 

[jswain34]

My bad. I was in a shi? mood this morning lol. I understand thermodynamics and what you are saying. And I also agree that it is somewhat irrelevant when you eat. But a lot of people feel outstanding when fasted and love fasted training. All I'm trying to say is a lot of people feel it works best for them, and at the end of the day that's all that really matters.

 

[Mainevant]

My bad. I was in a shi? mood this morning lol. I understand thermodynamics and what you are saying. And I also agree that it is somewhat irrelevant when you eat. But a lot of people feel outstanding when fasted and love fasted training. All I'm trying to say is a lot of people feel it works best for them, and at the end of the day that's all that really matters.

Thats right!
It's a preference..Someone likes black color other like white/

 

[Titration]

My bad. I was in a shi? mood this morning lol. I understand thermodynamics and what you are saying. And I also agree that it is somewhat irrelevant when you eat. But a lot of people feel outstanding when fasted and love fasted training. All I'm trying to say is a lot of people feel it works best for them, and at the end of the day that's all that really matters.

Agreed, but I just don't have the room to consume 2,000 calories in one sitting. You guys are insane

 

[uvawahoowa]

Agreed, but I just don't have the room to consume 2,000 calories in one sitting. You guys are insane

You'd be surprised what your body can do once it gets adjusted.

 

[RogerBob]

Its not even about the eating, its the burning of fat that feels good, after 24 hours, you an feel it, its an odd feeling.
Fat is calorie reserve ,we use them during extended fasting hours once the immediate food is consumed, yet its anticatabolic unlike a low cal diet. Its quiet something... but conditioning of society aside, it makes a lot of sense.
Everyone eats all day and we have an obesity problem, go figure!

 

[Roniboney]

I'm on it now after a long long 5 month cut.

I need to do it atm while bringing kcal up to find my new maintenance.It's really easy to feel satisfied whilst eating 2600kcal.......not enough!

Though I follow my diet very strictly it does help me fit things into my macro's on special occasions and when I go off on holidays with my girlfriend it will help stop some unwanted fat gain due to my appetite.

 

[EWolfe08]

I don't like any of those. I prefer to gradually lower carbs over a long term course. Carb cycle if you have to.

 

[EasyEJL]

How am I flaming? I haven't disrespected anyone in anyways, if I have, I'm sorry. Although, of course any diet with a caloric defecit will produce results, it's simple thermodynamics. If you prefer to eat once a day then fine, but it doesn't produce better results than 2,3,4 etc meals per day. Even I only eat 2-3 times per day. No flaming at all, it was just a question.

but its not simple thermodynamics either. on exact same calorie/macro breakdown blood markers for insulin sensitivity, growth hormone and others are different when the meal pattern is a 16 hour fast 8 hour eat vs 12 hour fast 12 hour eat.

 

[good2Badawg]

Im digging thisdiscussion,and info but for totally different reasons...im a Preacher and try to fast for spiritual reasons. but when zoning in on working out it is hard to bring myself to it because of the learned logic of needing to consume food to fuel the body on such a.constant and consistent basis and becoming catabolic etc...please keep the info flowing

 

[Jiigzz]

Im digging thisdiscussion,and info but for totally different reasons...im a Preacher and try to fast for spiritual reasons. but when zoning in on working out it is hard to bring myself to it because of the learned logic of needing to consume food to fuel the body on such a.constant and consistent basis and becoming catabolic etc...please keep the info flowing

Your body wont turn catabolic if you dont eat at a set time, nor will it become catabolic if you dont feed it constantly. The body is HUGELY adaptable and its not looking for ways to break down muscle unless its for good reason.

 

[theotherone55]

Go read Berardi's article.... He tried all these out and wrote in depth reviews on each one.

I personally go with leangains style and throw some full 24hr fasts in there (I throw them in on days I slip up and drink or eat ****)

 

[JudoJosh]

Adherence is what matters most. Do something that you will be able to maintain for a significant amount of time (not just a week here and there).

As for the law of thermodynamics with food (calories in vs calories out) is something I do not accept as to me this oversimplifies the complexity of the human body (I have a couple threads on this). Eric have you read Hoffmecklers books? He makes a couple claims in them that I am unsure how legit they are, especially since his version isnt really fasting but under-eating.

All in all I would say that the biggest impact a diet such as lean gains has over a traditional 5 meal a day diet is on our health and bot so much an increased fat loss rate

 

[EasyEJL]

I haven't read his books so far. If I recall though from excerpts and blurbs i've seen, his reasoning is based less on direct real living person studies than IF is. Not that it may not also be accurate, but there isn't much if anything in peer reviewed in vivo studies backing it. I should hunt around for them, I could stand to read something new.

 

[JudoJosh]

I have only skimmed through them but my take away was his diet revolves around the idea of activating cAMP during the under-eating and cGMP during the over-eating along with other aspects such as HGH and insulin sensitivity. It looks interesting to say the least but it LARGELY based on anecdotal experience and making comparisons to "warrior tribes" of our hunter gather time period. The lean gains approach seems to be founded more on science than his diets. As for ADF diet, EBF would be the guy to ask as I know he has been researching this for some time now.

 

[Roniboney]

I have only skimmed through them but my take away was his diet revolves around the idea of activating cAMP during the under-eating and cGMP during the over-eating along with other aspects such as HGH and insulin sensitivity. It looks interesting to say the least but it LARGELY based on anecdotal experience and making comparisons to "warrior tribes" of our hunter gather time period. The lean gains approach seems to be founded more on science than his diets. As for ADF diet, EBF would be the guy to ask as I know he has been researching this for some time now.

Hofmekler annoys me a lot.

He recommends eating 40g protein on certain days and claims that you can achieve a positive or neutral nitrogen balance.Complete bs as biochemists like Layne Norton have refuted it several times.

As for the warrior diet he bases it upon assumptions that the diet and lifestyle of ancient civilisations is superior to ours and therefore makes up half of his book.Having read and practiced the warrior diet and the anti-estrogenic diet(which is worth a read) I have no time for the man.

Take one look at him and look at Martin Berkham.Ori looks like a skeleton compared to Martin.

 

[JudoJosh]

Hofmekler annoys me a lot.

He recommends eating 40g protein on certain days and claims that you can achieve a positive or neutral nitrogen balance.Complete bs as biochemists like Layne Norton have refuted it several times.

The late Wesley Silveira (IA) wrote a variation of the warrior diet where he addresses Hoffmecklers insane protein reccomendations. I have done IAs version and it was quite successful (for me at least)

As for the warrior diet he bases it upon assumptions that the diet and lifestyle of ancient civilisations is superior to ours and therefore makes up half of his book.

This annoys me to no end with the paleo fanatics. I am a paleo advocate but can not stand when people use "well the cave man did/didnt" as their sole reasoning. So Yea I know that feeling well

Having read and practiced the warrior diet and the anti-estrogenic diet(which is worth a read) I have no time for the man.

isnt this book based largely around things like BPA and the likes?

Take one look at him and look at Martin Berkham.Ori looks like a skeleton compared to Martin.

Conversely take one look at lots of other prominent coaches in the industry (Mark Rippetoe, [FONT=arial, sans-serif]Alwyn Cosgrove, Lyle McDonald, etc) you dont have to look like a adonis to be credible. His definiteness tone coupled with his lack of evidence is what makes me skeptical, not his appearance. [/FONT]

 

[EasyEJL]

more or less from my reading, everything that could be said to be true of IF applies with ADF, with ADF potentially having more longevity boosting from animal models. IF seems far easier to be compliant on, ADF was a real pain. I had switched to DC workouts when I did ADF as at least my workouts were every other day as well so I could match up workout + eat days. Still it sucked to know that if I eat on saturday this weekend, i'm eating on sunday next weekend. made some family social planning hard.

 

[EasyEJL]

the "thats how evolution built us for eating" was always the most comical part to me on paleo (and I as well see benefits to that dietary style). Evolution does not optimize the individual, it optimizes the species to continue breeding. Mature rapidly for the organism's size, be as prolific breeding as possible, die before you become a burden on the local ecosystem/tribe/pack/etc. So MAYBE at most the argument would work for starting paleo on a toddler to get him into earlier puberty? That still wouldn't necessarily mean more muscle, high muscle levels are counter survival as the greater calories to sustain them eat into the rest of the group's food and the higher muscle level does not provide a significantly higher survival rate, particularly not after the invention of the spear