Six meals every three hours a scam?

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    Quote Originally Posted by EBF Inc View Post
    I went to school for nutrition. There's no clear science on meal timing and frequency.

    In fact there's more out there on hormone timing which you should base your meals around

    As far as intra workout it depends on goals there is evidence there. But non really on frequency of meals v 1-3 meals a day

    I've been on a nice easy recomp eating 1x a day. Gained 4 lbs and dropped a little on my waist and have gotten stronger. I don't think it's fair to say frequency of eating correlates to muscle accretion.
    I think my point was misinterpreted. Meal frequency is not important at all, as long as macros are hit. But there are still studies out there on eating every 3 hours, however this is mostly for obese individuals;

    http://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJM198910053211403
    http://www.ajcn.org/content/23/8/1059.short
    http://journals.cambridge.org/action...ine&aid=879792
    http://www.ajcn.org/content/81/1/16.short (shows that it is only important for obese individuals)

    These studies are very outdated, but this is why people think that meal frequency is important, because they base their ideals off old, outdated studies. Thats not to say they dont exist (which is why I said they did), they just arnt relevant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hugry4more View Post
    To u I am man. Dang u been here like since dial up ha.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz

    I think my point was misinterpreted. Meal frequency is not important at all, as long as macros are hit. But there are still studies out there on eating every 3 hours, however this is mostly for obese individuals;

    http://www.nejm.org/doi/pdf/10.1056/NEJM198910053211403
    http://www.ajcn.org/content/23/8/1059.short
    http://journals.cambridge.org/action...ine&aid=879792
    http://www.ajcn.org/content/81/1/16.short (shows that it is only important for obese individuals)

    These studies are very outdated, but this is why people think that meal frequency is important, because they base their ideals off old, outdated studies. Thats not to say they dont exist (which is why I said they did), they just arnt relevant.
    I'll get back to this with hormone timing . Debunk some ****
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    As a personal note, I get hungry very easily, when i eat dirty im full and throws my macros off for the rest of the day.But when i eat clean im always hungry, when bulking I eat small meals spread out through the day and get exactly what i need in me, but when im on a cut its hard for me not to get hungry, so i try and spread the meals out about 3 hrs apart so ill take in less cals without sacrifice of actually eatting smaller meals, if that makes sense.
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Smeton View Post
    you need to eat every 2-3 hours to keep muscle building going or supplement bcaa's or a whey shake in between meals

    amino acids levels fall after uyou eat and you have got to keep it going
    LMAO!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legacykid View Post
    As a personal note, I get hungry very easily, when i eat dirty im full and throws my macros off for the rest of the day.But when i eat clean im always hungry, when bulking I eat small meals spread out through the day and get exactly what i need in me, but when im on a cut its hard for me not to get hungry, so i try and spread the meals out about 3 hrs apart so ill take in less cals without sacrifice of actually eatting smaller meals, if that makes sense.
    The only reason why you get that hungry is because your body is scheduled to eat that often. While I'm doing intermittent fasting I don't even get remotely hungry until my feeding window.
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    Quote Originally Posted by broda View Post
    The only reason why you get that hungry is because your body is scheduled to eat that often. While I'm doing intermittent fasting I don't even get remotely hungry until my feeding window.
    So then let me ask i train multi times a day, and eatting a light meal instead of a larger meal i am able to workout just about right after and not get sluggish or an upset stomic, is that also because my body is used to it, or infact b/c i ate a smaller meal? This is also another reason why i like eatting smaller meals, more often.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legacykid View Post
    So then let me ask i train multi times a day, and eatting a light meal instead of a larger meal i am able to workout just about right after and not get sluggish or an upset stomic, is that also because my body is used to it, or infact b/c i ate a smaller meal? This is also another reason why i like eatting smaller meals, more often.
    I actually train fasted so I don't eat anything beforehand. I actually feel better fasted than if I ate an hour prior or so. I think it's because when you eat it slowly digests and your body is putting in energy to digest and give your body the nutrition from the food you ate versus just using energy that your body already has stored. Also, I've read/heard that your body produces more HGH in a fasted state so that's another benefit of training fasted.

    If you train multiple times a day you could train fasted the first time, then eat post workout. What you'd do really depends on how spaced out your sessions are.
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    Quote Originally Posted by broda View Post
    The only reason why you get that hungry is because your body is scheduled to eat that often. While I'm doing intermittent fasting I don't even get remotely hungry until my feeding window.

    Same here, except lately I have been stepping up my workouts, and my body has been saying "FEED ME MORE" if I don't give it enough in the first 7 of the 8 hours, so then I am stuffing food in.



    As far as "kick starting your metabolism" or however you want to phrase it, there are many ways to do that other than feed yourself, expecially when your feeding yourself calories you don't need. Your body won't burn any fat if you keep giving it calories, AKA the proportion of calories that goes to building muscle vs. feeding your body otherwise will be different. With IF your body uses stored energy/fat to run. If you eat constantly, your body is always going to use those calories before the store fat because its easier. And more than likely your meals are so small, that your not giving your body enough protein and good carbs/fats in those small meals to do the work it needs to do, specifically after your workout, and before bed.

    Now you can make the argument that macros are macros and it doesn't matter when you eat them, therefore with the same macros with different timing your body would be forced to burn the same amount of fat, or even more with the spaced out meals, because of "upping your metabolism", but its not that clear cut. Thats old science, as has been stated. What is more likely is that your body more effectively burns fat in a diet like lean gains, where you excercise fasted and feed immediately post workout. Then feed, which puts nearly all of the food intake to work, adding none to little fat, assuming proper diet that is.

    Constant feeding actually causes your body to store more fat, because your mind tells your body that you have plenty of food, and that it doesn't need to use what fat is stored in the body.

    This can get infinitely complicated and debated. But the facts are that IF works, and small meals CAN work, especially in a bulk (IMO).

    Drink alot of water, eat clean and at or slighly above your maint. macros, workout to hard, to failure, with volume, and sleep. basic recipe for success.

    After that it's all 99% Bullsheet.

    Quote Originally Posted by broda View Post
    I actually train fasted so I don't eat anything beforehand. I actually feel better fasted than if I ate an hour prior or so. I think it's because when you eat it slowly digests and your body is putting in energy to digest and give your body the nutrition from the food you ate versus just using energy that your body already has stored. Also, I've read/heard that your body produces more HGH in a fasted state so that's another benefit of training fasted.

    If you train multiple times a day you could train fasted the first time, then eat post workout. What you'd do really depends on how spaced out your sessions are.

    Body produces HGH in response to stress/fasting.

    There was also a recent study that a slowly drank protein shake PRE workout actually was beneficial, but that was for muscle growth, not fat loss, but I don't see a pure protein shake hurting. I am going to play around with it a little bit and break my IF rules a little with the shake 1 hr before workout.

    And yes it feels great, I do get fatigued in longer workouts at times though, BCAAs would help a lot I'm sure.
    Log: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/226478-country-gets-huge.html#post3905023
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBF Inc View Post
    I'll get back to this with hormone timing . Debunk some ****
    Come at me bro haha jokes.

    I didnt say I agreed with the studies though, I just knew I had read some on meal frequency. But these are VERY outdated, new studies show us that growth and repair can happen irregardless of how often you feed; 3500kcals in one meal is the same as 3500kcals in 10 meals, just more spread out
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    Quote Originally Posted by CountryLiftin View Post

    Constant feeding actually causes your body to store more fat, because your mind tells your body that you have plenty of food, and that it doesn't need to use what fat is stored in the body.

    This can get infinitely complicated and debated. But the facts are that IF works, and small meals CAN work, especially in a bulk (IMO).
    In the past two months I gained 13 lbs and only went up 1.5% bf and i do little to zero cardio
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legacykid View Post
    In the past two months I gained 13 lbs and only went up 1.5% bf and i do little to zero cardio

    What does doing cardio have to do with this conversation?. I'm just confused at your response is all.
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    Sometimes I eat peanut butter cookies.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legacykid View Post
    In the past two months I gained 13 lbs and only went up 1.5% bf and i do little to zero cardio
    And how was the BF% measured? Calipers?
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    Sometimes I eat peanut butter cookies.
    LOL, ROFL.
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    I hate to say it but so has every other fad diet for the past 30 years

    That said, I am with ya but it certainly seems like crap changes non stop and gets written in stone with studies to support it, then debunked, then becomes gospel again years later

    It's ALL gartbage IMO

    For me?

    5-6 small meals a day of lean meat, healthy fats and tons of greens.....and avoid processed crap and "cheat" when I feel like it.

    After awhile, you just have to figure out what works for you

    I actually put on FAT on the IM Diet and felt like CRAP

    I get RIPPED on 6 SMALL meals per day

    So, just more proof every oner needs to figure out what works for them

    The older I get, the less I listen. LOL. Everyone's full of poop and the ONLY fact anyone can prove is that no one diet will work for every person.

    Carbs are in, carbs are out, fat is in fat is out, saturated fat is good then bad, PWO windows, PWO carbs, grains are healthy, grains are the devil, gluten is the devil, gluten is fine, glycemic index matters, glycemic index is crap, egg yollks are satan, egg yolks are healthy, Atkins, Pritikin, IM fasting is the way to go, No eatign 10x/day is and dont forget that miracle dose of protein and cottage chz mix before bed time, caesein verses whey, milk makes you fat, but milk makes you get lean, sodioum is bad, sodium is dabomb diggity, CLA is da bomb, CLA stinks, hydolyzed whey is superior, whey concentrate is just fine, soy is GOD today then the devil tomorow.... all complete utterly annoying propaganda and BS IMO

    Rant over


    Quote Originally Posted by hvactech View Post
    hmmm i wonder why diets like leangains, warrior, tkd, ckd and a plethora of others have such great results.....
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    ^^^ so how I feel man. Hit it right on the head. Reps to your great post!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whacked View Post
    I hate to say it but so has every other fad diet for the past 30 years

    That said, I am with ya but it certainly seems like crap changes non stop and gets written in stone with studies to support it, then debunked, then becomes gospel again years later

    It's ALL gartbage IMO

    For me?

    5-6 small meals a day of lean meat, healthy fats and tons of greens.....and avoid processed crap and "cheat" when I feel like it.

    After awhile, you just have to figure out what works for you

    I actually put on FAT on the IM Diet and felt like CRAP

    I get RIPPED on 6 SMALL meals per day

    So, just more proof every oner needs to figure out what works for them

    The older I get, the less I listen. LOL. Everyone's full of poop and the ONLY fact anyone can prove is that no one diet will work for every person.

    Carbs are in, carbs are out, fat is in fat is out, saturated fat is good then bad, PWO windows, PWO carbs, grains are healthy, grains are the devil, gluten is the devil, gluten is fine, glycemic index matters, glycemic index is crap, egg yollks are satan, egg yolks are healthy, Atkins, Pritikin, IM fasting is the way to go, No eatign 10x/day is and dont forget that miracle dose of protein and cottage chz mix before bed time, caesein verses whey, milk makes you fat, but milk makes you get lean, sodioum is bad, sodium is dabomb diggity, CLA is da bomb, CLA stinks, hydolyzed whey is superior, whey concentrate is just fine, soy is GOD today then the devil tomorow.... all complete utterly annoying propaganda and BS IMO

    Rant over
    Well said. Needs to be stickies.
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    What does doing cardio have to do with this conversation?. I'm just confused at your response is all.

    Its was stated that constant eating (as i assumed he ment 5-6 small meals) you put more fat on, and i said how i only went up a little bf% and so no one could then say hey u could have done cardio to help keep bf down, i simply said i barely did any.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    And how was the BF% measured? Calipers?
    caliper and a machine at my gym, not 100% accurate i understand but used it as a guildline (checked multi times)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whacked View Post
    I hate to say it but so has every other fad diet for the past 30 years

    That said, I am with ya but it certainly seems like crap changes non stop and gets written in stone with studies to support it, then debunked, then becomes gospel again years later

    It's ALL gartbage IMO

    For me?

    5-6 small meals a day of lean meat, healthy fats and tons of greens.....and avoid processed crap and "cheat" when I feel like it.

    After awhile, you just have to figure out what works for you

    I actually put on FAT on the IM Diet and felt like CRAP

    I get RIPPED on 6 SMALL meals per day

    So, just more proof every oner needs to figure out what works for them

    The older I get, the less I listen. LOL. Everyone's full of poop and the ONLY fact anyone can prove is that no one diet will work for every person.

    Carbs are in, carbs are out, fat is in fat is out, saturated fat is good then bad, PWO windows, PWO carbs, grains are healthy, grains are the devil, gluten is the devil, gluten is fine, glycemic index matters, glycemic index is crap, egg yollks are satan, egg yolks are healthy, Atkins, Pritikin, IM fasting is the way to go, No eatign 10x/day is and dont forget that miracle dose of protein and cottage chz mix before bed time, caesein verses whey, milk makes you fat, but milk makes you get lean, sodioum is bad, sodium is dabomb diggity, CLA is da bomb, CLA stinks, hydolyzed whey is superior, whey concentrate is just fine, soy is GOD today then the devil tomorow.... all complete utterly annoying propaganda and BS IMO

    Rant over
    agreed 100% on the "everyone is different" statement, my post was just in reference to everyone who says that the 6 meals a day idea is the "best" way to diet, ive been free styling my diet for years with decent results...
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    We've got 30+ feet of digestive length in our bodies and you're supposed to believe that +/- 1 hour will make a significant difference in anything? Please....

    The only reason I eat every 3-4 hours is when I'm trying to cram in 5,000-6,000 calories per day.
    Go hard. Go heavy. Never stop.
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    O Boy I Love to eat!
    I can eat 24/7 I swear I can. But only small meals. Big meals are killing me. For me 5meals are the best for now.
    But 25years ago when I played city soccer league I was on 2meals full of energy and shredded as a hell :-)
    Diet is a big puzzle and everyone is playing with different pieces on a different board.
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    Eating big meals is just uncomfortable for me, like trying to cram down 1500kcals over 3 meals is like a battle. So I spread it out. Whacked said it all anyway
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    I was doing 24 hour fasts for 4 months (once a week) just for the benifits of fasting. I noticed the feeling i got towards the end of the fast and during the opening of the feeding window and loved it so i switched to Lean Gains.

    I like Lean Gains because i am able to eat a real meal (portion wise) and my strength has actually gone up while losing weight.

    I also never feel bloated, ever in IF.

    Lastly, its nice to give your body some time off from digestion.

    find what works for you and dont be afraid to try different approaches.
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    Meal timing really doesn't matter.

    But changing the frequency of when you eat has to happen depending on what your trying to do at that time.

    For instance I will eat maybe 6 times a day when I'm trying to ******** just because I don't want to feel full when it comes to my next meal if I were to adhere to a 3 meals a day plan.
    Whereas when I'm cutting (i.e right now) on lower kcal than normal(2400) having 2-3 meals a day is what I go for as it keeps me better satiated.
    Whatever you prefer is what you should do.There is no evidence for people in normal everyday jobs who weight train that eating 6 times a day is better than 3 times a day.

    In fact Layne Norton a natural professional bodybuilder has done some amino acid research and has proven that the human body is more sensitive to amino acids when meals are spaced 4-5 hours apart.
    Here's the study on amino acidshttp://www.biolayne.com/wp-content/u...rton-20121.pdf
    and here's the one on protein synthesis http://extremehumanperformance.com/b...-layne-norton/
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    Just a quick question.... So if meal timing is irrelevant would it be detrimental to train fasted around 6-7 am ( fasted without bcaa ) and then get all my macros around 11am - 7 pm? Pretty much all I'm asking is anyone going almost 5 hours post workout without eating and seeing results.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0071982WC View Post
    Just a quick question.... So if meal timing is irrelevant would it be detrimental to train fasted around 6-7 am ( fasted without bcaa ) and then get all my macros around 11am - 7 pm? Pretty much all I'm asking is anyone going almost 5 hours post workout without eating and seeing results.
    I come from a strength perspective, so keep that in mind, but I have noticed zero negative impact in my strength gains from this scenario. I'd still recommend the BCAA at some point in there, though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 0071982WC View Post
    Just a quick question.... So if meal timing is irrelevant would it be detrimental to train fasted around 6-7 am ( fasted without bcaa ) and then get all my macros around 11am - 7 pm? Pretty much all I'm asking is anyone going almost 5 hours post workout without eating and seeing results.
    You'd just have to test it yourself.You will be more sensitive to amino acids but catabolism doesn't begin taking place until a minimum of 48 hours.But that was a study on sedentary individuals so the carryover would be tough to unconver.But 3hrs after the workout I believe would be fine.
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    Science makes everybody question their current practices.


    Being brainwashed from bodybuilding.com/ (Jim Stoppani and others that will go unknown) does not help my reliability or my credentials here. But I would like to say that the Whacked user obviously makes the most rational approach. However, out of curiosity, after reading leangains and a ton of other people who also believe in the "intermittent fasting" theory, I decided to find out for myself, not on internet boards, about what actual nutritionists believe about these theories.

    They all say the exact same thing = eating MORE frequently (this does not mean EVERY 3 hours or 6-8 meals a day) than three meals a day in smaller (relatively) with a good source of protein has a STRONG POSSIBILITY OF positively affecting insulin resistance, basal metabolic rate (BML), lipolysis (varied in the responses), muscle growth (keeping the body in an anabolic state by reducing cortisol and NOT REMOVING IT).
    Another person (a bodybuilder with ridiculous genetic gifts and a surprisingly high IQ) says that you SHOULD EAT AT LEAST 4 MEALS a day with a good source of protein.
    A good source of protein, scientifically, according to the Graduate Center for Gerontology, University of Kentucky The Division of Rehabilitation Sciences
    is 30 grams of protein.
    Go to Pubmed, search for "A moderate serving of high-quality protein maximally stimulates skeletal muscle protein synthesis in young and elderly subjects" (title search)

    This source also says that any more than 30 grams of protein in one meal will not affect augmentation or hypertrophy of muscles any more than 30 will at ONE TIME, in fact, other studies say that excess protein (in this case the grams > 30) will be removed through waste and unavailable for usage from the body.
    This, sort of, disbands the "Intermittent fasting theory" because since these theories are based off of getting the right macros in, and if you can only utilize 30 grams of protein at one time (or in one meal), those people who use the "one meal theory" or the "4 hour window" will not be getting sufficient amounts of utilizable protein to sustain proper muscle growth, fat loss, or even the recommended macros defined by the FDA and ADA (Which are the most basic of requirements in the history of everything).

    AND this amount of protein needed for each meal DOES NOT CHANGE WITH AGING, as proven by Division of Rehabilitation Sciences, The University of Texas Medical Branch, Galveston, TX. Anybody, any age, can maximally promote protein synthesis with a meal of 30 grams of protein. Any more is useless.
    Go to pubmed, search for "Aging does not impair the anabolic response to a protein-rich meal." (title search)
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    I never believed the 30 grams of protein thing. It just does not make sense to me that humans would evolve that way. Ancient man would only really eat protein when he hunted and killed an animal lol. He would then gorge himself and not eat protein again until another kill was made. Almost every predatory animal eats this way as well.

    Also, look at the people who have had success on IF diets. Some eat 100 grams in one meal. Doesn't seem like this 30 gram rule is hampering them.
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    Yeah that 30 grams of protein per meal thing is total BS. I don't care who said it. Science doesn't make me question anything. I don't base what I do on what some pencil neck geek in a lab tells me. I base what I do on what works for me and only I can figure that out for myself. If a way of eating or working out is working for me and "science" says its not suppose to work, well then screw science!.
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    Sure I read a lot of training books and diet books based around science, but that's just the beginning. A lot of things based on science are just theory...
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    If you based how you workout and how you eat on science and studies you would change your diet and exercise routine daily.
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    This is an interesting point bc the old schools of thought say that you need to eat every 2 to 3 hours and new evidence is showing that you don't need to eat nearly that often. IMO it doesn't matter that much either way...if you hit your macro totals for the day and try to get your protein from whole protein sources eat slow digesting carbs and get your fat from good sources like nuts then your going to get great results weather it is spaced out over 2 meals or 7. For me I feel like I have to eat 6 meals a day bc I just can't fit one third of the total amount of food I need in a day during one sitting plus I feel that eating more often helps me stay on track with my diet. But hey...I could be wrong as hell try the various methods and see what works for you
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    I want to first state, I am going to give this IF thing a shot & I know people who are having great results with it.

    Anyone mention that NO professional bodybuilders are doing this (at least to my knowledge).They've been doing it for over 50yrs with better results than most anyone here Eating every few hours works! The IF is just more convenient for the recreational weight lifter/bodybuilder.

    If I remember correctly a lot of faster studies are due with regular people, my calorie/nutrient requirements and timing are a hell of a lot different than my fat or skinny friend who just goes to work, takes kids to soccer & goes fishing every once in a while.

    As others have mentioned before, each person is different. I def wouldn't write off eating every 2-3 hours, it obviously works & works great. If you argue that, you're an idiot. However, Is it necessary for the masses? Possibly not.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Distilled Water View Post
    I want to first state, I am going to give this IF thing a shot & I know people who are having great results with it.

    Anyone mention that NO professional bodybuilders are doing this (at least to my knowledge).They've been doing it for over 50yrs with better results than most anyone here Eating every few hours works! The IF is just more convenient for the recreational weight lifter/bodybuilder.

    If I remember correctly a lot of faster studies are due with regular people, my calorie/nutrient requirements and timing are a hell of a lot different than my fat or skinny friend who just goes to work, takes kids to soccer & goes fishing every once in a while.

    As others have mentioned before, each person is different. I def wouldn't write off eating every 2-3 hours, it obviously works & works great. If you argue that, you're an idiot. However, Is it necessary for the masses? Possibly not.

    I'm not arguing that eating every few hours won't work. I am arguing that more than 30 grams of protein in a meal won't be used by the body.
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    Quote Originally Posted by boogyman

    I'm not arguing that eating every few hours won't work. I am arguing that more than 30 grams of protein in a meal won't be used by the body.
    I agree 100%
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    Quote Originally Posted by boogyman View Post
    I'm not arguing that eating every few hours won't work. I am arguing that more than 30 grams of protein in a meal won't be used by the body.
    His comment wasnt aimed at your 30g of protein story. The threads about eating every 3 hours, he was just contributing to that argument.

    Your arguing that <30gs can only be used?
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    Quote Originally Posted by boogyman

    I'm not arguing that eating every few hours won't work. I am arguing that more than 30 grams of protein in a meal won't be used by the body.
    I think the body I'm some way shape or form uses everything u put in it in one way shape or form.
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