Simple vs complex carbs: the last word?

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  1. AK DoubleWide 47
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    Simple vs complex carbs on refeed: the last word?


    Ok I read everything there was to read about complex vs simple carbs..

    And the result is: everything and the opposite has been said, and yet I cannot for the life of me
    find a reliable, clear and simply explained source stating a solid, final word on this.

    The reason because I'm interested is because every single time I eat carbs (complex, I don't do
    simple *ever*) I feel like hell, the next day I look like sh#t and I'm weak as f#ck..
    Awesome isn't it?
    This happens only on the day I attempt my refeed, which is once a week on my heaviest wo day
    I'm in a very low carb diet all year round (25/30gr a day), BF 4/5%

    So, more than one person suggested me to go with simple carbs for the refeed
    but I need to bring something up: years ago I was using cereals (like breakfast cereals)
    pwo, decent amount of sugar in them and no fat, when I swapped 'em with oats
    it made a big as# difference, I started to lean out even more and fill muscles up better etc..
    Overall, I just started to look much better.

    Then my diet changed, I didn't do pwo carbs (or protein either) anymore started to do warrior diet/IF
    and again, things improved.

    Now at this BF and ridiculously intense training sessions I tried to start the refeed protocol
    once a week several times, I tired any kind of "clean" complex carb and the result is always
    the same, stated above.
    Rice, potatoes, oats, etc.. even just 40/50gr and everything goes down the hill.

    Now, before f#cking up another week/refeed, I decided to ask about this.

    What difference is gonna make to use simple carbs (as opposed to complex) for the refeed in terms of bodycomp?

    Because from my experience - from the pwo experience I mentioned above - it does make
    a hell of a difference in favor of complex carbs, but I don't know for sure
    because a lot changed since then, my training, my diet etc.. so I'm not 100% sure that's
    what made the difference at the time.

    Anyway, any help appreciated
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    So you stated you had much better success with the way you FELT and LOOKED loading with complex, lower glycemic carbs?

    The only "benefit" to loading on simple carbs for refeeds is to initiate a heightened insulin response, which will then signal leptin, T4-T3 conversion, shuttle glucose into muscle cells faster than complex carbs. You will also be able to EAT MORE carbs as there wont be any fiber slowing gastric emptying.

    I mean realistically, if you are depleted as hell, and shove in the "RIGHT" amount of carbohydrates, complex or simple it really should not matter as eventually glycogen, and all signaling hormones will get to where they need to be.

    If you overdo the simple carbohydrate refeeds and give your body more than it needed, then of course you will over saturate muscle/liver glycogen and retain water and spill into fat cells.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattPorter View Post
    So you stated you had much better success with the way you FELT and LOOKED loading with complex, lower glycemic carbs?

    The only "benefit" to loading on simple carbs for refeeds is to initiate a heightened insulin response, which will then signal leptin, T4-T3 conversion, shuttle glucose into muscle cells faster than complex carbs. You will also be able to EAT MORE carbs as there wont be any fiber slowing gastric emptying.

    I mean realistically, if you are depleted as hell, and shove in the "RIGHT" amount of carbohydrates, complex or simple it really should not matter as eventually glycogen, and all signaling hormones will get to where they need to be.

    If you overdo the simple carbohydrate refeeds and give your body more than it needed, then of course you will over saturate muscle/liver glycogen and retain water and spill into fat cells.....
    Thanks Matt,

    what I meant is while i've been in low carbs for a long time
    up until a couple of years ago I was still getting in pwo carbs
    - in form of low fat breakfast cereals - about 35gr,
    then I switched those 30gr pwo cereals with oats and I FELT the same (at that
    time I was feeling ok with both cereals or oats) but I started to LOOK much better.
    (my total daily carb intake was 60gr)

    Then I changed my diet and plans and cut those 30gr of carbs pwo
    and I've been going with 30gr total carb intake for the last couple of years
    - two whole wheat bread slices -

    Lately I wanted to incorporate the carb-up/refeed and all the problems started
    but I've been always trying that with complex carbs,
    now I've been suggested to go with simple carbs for the refeed but honestly
    I'm a bit scared of that.
    for me cutting all the simple carbs (even if just 30gr!) made a difference at the time


    So what are you saying is let's assume I go for 2 x bodyweight gr of carbs
    on my refeed: if I use simple or complex that will not make a difference in body composition?
    In the end that's where I get confused and I'd like to know



    I (would) do my refeed between the two heaviest wo days, chest and deadlift/squats
    so it would start on chest day (pwo), if this is of any help
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    You are a rare case man. You will have to play around a bit to find what works for you. I have been refeeding for YEARS and I have my food choices down, to what I fee makes me look, and feel best. I consume a lot of simple carbs.

    Check out SKIPS longevity DVD. Specifically the seminar chapters and the SKIPLOADING addendum. He starts to talk about it about 15:00 in to the first seminar chapter. It will give you some ideas to play with.
    http://www.teamskip.net/longevitydvd/

    I
    more or less follow his guidelines, and find it works well for me, and I have played around with many different protocols over the years. There are quite a few differering opinions on the subject.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Reynolds View Post
    You are a rare case man. You will have to play around a bit to find what works for you.
    Tell me about it :/
    that's why I'm trying to gather as many info as I can so not to completely
    go berzerk while trying and most important, not to mess up my actual condition

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Reynolds View Post
    I have been refeeding for YEARS and I have my food choices down, to what I fee makes me look, and feel best. I consume a lot of simple carbs.

    Check out SKIPS longevity DVD. Specifically the seminar chapters and the SKIPLOADING addendum. He starts to talk about it about 15:00 in to the first seminar chapter. It will give you some ideas to play with.
    http://www.teamskip.net/longevitydvd/

    I
    more or less follow his guidelines, and find it works well for me, and I have played around with many different protocols over the years.
    Thanks a lot, checking it right away!

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Reynolds View Post
    There are quite a few differering opinions on the subject.
    That's why I wanted to open this 3d, I know the subject has been discussed over and over
    and yet, I couldn't find any "official" statement/study about it.
    I guess it depends, people react differently to different things/protocols,
    but at least knowing what the theory would be on that could be a start.
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    I have been using 2Glycobol with my carbs. Morning right after workout out with around 25/50 complex and 25-75 simple. 2 gylcobol and lunch 50-70complex and several simple... I really like the feeling I am getting and i have stayed same weight and add some muscle. I am not by anymeans a body builder or powerlifter as of yet I am still in the weening stages but i have had some good results so far... I was getting my proteins from only food for a while. I am switching it up and adding lots more carbs and hopefully will be stacking som ALA and possibly agmatine.
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    I have and I am experimenting/using at the moment 3 different GDAs: Slin Sane, Glycobol, Recompadrol.
    Trust me I know everything about GDAs, but in a recent 3d on the Dr Houser forum we agreed not to use GDAs
    on refeed day.
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    Ohhh I am new to this site and just grazing(sp?).... for as much info as I can digest
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Reynolds View Post
    You are a rare case man. You will have to play around a bit to find what works for you. I have been refeeding for YEARS and I have my food choices down, to what I fee makes me look, and feel best. I consume a lot of simple carbs.

    Check out SKIPS longevity DVD. Specifically the seminar chapters and the SKIPLOADING addendum. He starts to talk about it about 15:00 in to the first seminar chapter. It will give you some ideas to play with.
    http://www.teamskip.net/longevitydvd/

    I
    more or less follow his guidelines, and find it works well for me, and I have played around with many different protocols over the years. There are quite a few differering opinions on the subject.
    Are you boosting calories on the refeed or just swapping protein and fats with carbs?
    If you are increasing, how much?
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    Quote Originally Posted by AutoKal47 View Post
    Are you boosting calories on the refeed or just swapping protein and fats with carbs?
    If you are increasing, how much?
    Boosting would be an understatement.

    I don't count calories on my refeed at all. I EAT carbs, and then eat some more.
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    Ok I kept researching and unfortunately for me, it seems that simple carbs ain't the same as complex
    even for a refeed, McDonald advice is to keep sugar under 50gr, seems to work for many other as well.

    Most likely for people with an even slightly higher BF than me it won't make a difference,
    for me it does right away..

    Refeed ain't happening for me, my refeed would be hell and I can't do hardcore diet 6 days a week
    and then have an even less satisfying food day as refeed
    I can try with fats and protein but again just for the sake of it but the whole refeed purpose
    seems to go down the hill without carbs.

    Dammit, I was starting to believe I could've gorged myself with cereals and get away with it
    bah..
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    Science is only applicable so far. Think of this as the equivalent of only testing sedentary individuals with exercise protocols.

    You are leaner than almost anyone on here and they are likely to be in contest mode. The reason you haven't come up with an answer is because there is nothing that has the consensus of being definitive.

    A lot of what you are doing is against science, you workout longer than recommended for keeping the testosterone:cortisol ratio in check, you have a diet which is so perpetually low in carbs it has been linked with low testosterone levels. A lot of what you are doing is not what science considers optimal or healthy.

    You are going to have to experiment. Maybe your issues are with your GI tract, I have had GI issues and digesting many sources of complex carbs makes me feel awful whereas simple carbs I don't notice.

    Until you find other people who are doing the same protocols as you and pushing things to the extremes you are not going to find someone that has your answer, in your situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bdcc View Post
    Science is only applicable so far. Think of this as the equivalent of only testing sedentary individuals with exercise protocols.

    You are leaner than almost anyone on here and they are likely to be in contest mode. The reason you haven't come up with an answer is because there is nothing that has the consensus of being definitive.

    A lot of what you are doing is against science, you workout longer than recommended for keeping the testosterone:cortisol ratio in check, you have a diet which is so perpetually low in carbs it has been linked with low testosterone levels. A lot of what you are doing is not what science considers optimal or healthy.

    You are going to have to experiment. Maybe your issues are with your GI tract, I have had GI issues and digesting many sources of complex carbs makes me feel awful whereas simple carbs I don't notice.

    Until you find other people who are doing the same protocols as you and pushing things to the extremes you are not going to find someone that has your answer, in your situation.

    Well put my friend

    We happened to indirectly talk about this before, and yeah we do agree on pretty much every point here.
    Experimenting is so mentally taxing exactly because probably there's one if i'm lucky two combinations
    that will actually work on me, being able to spot it/them ain't gonna be easy

    As for the GI tract I got it checked, everything seems surprisingly fine,
    my uneducated guess is I developed some sort of intolerance to most carbs
    due to the diet, my system probably just doesn't know what the heck to do with those..
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    good luck with that
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    I read a lot on this too but when it comes down to it simple carbs r inferior to the complex. Eat complex whenever possible simple when u have to.
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    lol thanks guys, deep inside I knew that
    oh well.. I wish I was a bulker right now
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    Quote Originally Posted by AutoKal47
    lol thanks guys, deep inside I knew that
    oh well.. I wish I was a bulker right now
    You can easily go on bulk.. Just the image deal. I'm not even nearly as lean as you but I've been a fatty all my life and I'm afraid of going back.. Just fear. But I think I'm gonna need to bulk soon.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AutoKal47 View Post
    Dammit, I was starting to believe I could've gorged myself with cereals and get away with it
    bah..
    You can.

    Again, Lyle is ONE opinion of many opinions. There are some people like Scott Abel who have their clients eat whatever they want, even if it is Big Macs and doughnuts. Some keep fat low, like Skip etc. Pick one, try it, and see what you feel works best.

    Reading about it isn't going to tell you anything, especially since you aren't the norm.

    Did you watch the videos I linked? If so did you take nothing away from that? He explains about doing exactly what you are wanting to do.

    At your bf , and level of depletion it is going to be hard to do any damage. You could literally eat 20k calories of ****, and be fine, as long as your other 6days are accounting for it.

    Another thread
    http://www.intensemuscle.com/showthread.php?t=43733
    Another
    http://www.intensemuscle.com/showthread.php?t=33411


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    I with o/p I started a thread a few minutes ago over at bb dot com because I wanted to find a low GI carb to eat with my fish instead of sweet potato, I came here because they told me it didn't matter which potatos I eat. I was going to come here and make a thread then I saw this post.


    I usually stuck to complex carbs because longer engery and I thought it reverted to sugar less often vs. Fast carbs.

    I'm only talking potatos Herr for me....

    They basically said don't worry about what potatos to eat.

    I also know when cutting cals carbs are the first to be cut which could make some sense but if someone can shed some light I'd appreciate it.

    Does it really matter what kind of potatos I eat?
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    Quote Originally Posted by AutoKal47 View Post
    Thanks Matt,

    what I meant is while i've been in low carbs for a long time
    up until a couple of years ago I was still getting in pwo carbs
    - in form of low fat breakfast cereals - about 35gr,
    then I switched those 30gr pwo cereals with oats and I FELT the same (at that
    time I was feeling ok with both cereals or oats) but I started to LOOK much better.
    (my total daily carb intake was 60gr)

    Then I changed my diet and plans and cut those 30gr of carbs pwo
    and I've been going with 30gr total carb intake for the last couple of years
    - two whole wheat bread slices -

    Lately I wanted to incorporate the carb-up/refeed and all the problems started
    but I've been always trying that with complex carbs,
    now I've been suggested to go with simple carbs for the refeed but honestly
    I'm a bit scared of that.
    for me cutting all the simple carbs (even if just 30gr!) made a difference at the time


    So what are you saying is let's assume I go for 2 x bodyweight gr of carbs
    on my refeed: if I use simple or complex that will not make a difference in body composition?
    In the end that's where I get confused and I'd like to know



    I (would) do my refeed between the two heaviest wo days, chest and deadlift/squats
    so it would start on chest day (pwo), if this is of any help
    Is that you in your avatar? If so, you are very lean and legit single digit bf%. You have alot more liberty to refeed and fill out more than LESS lean people. In fact, the less lean you are the shorter the refeed window should be. If you maintain that leanness (in avatar) all the time, you will be depleted faster than a high bf% person. Therefore, you could potentially do bi-weekly refeeds. The bi weekly refeed is along the lines of Rob Faigen's Natural Hormonal Enhancement book, but you can tweak things to suit your needs.

    I have done it multiple ways....When I did a TKD approach I would eat for 15-18 hours....and fat was NOT lowered. Pizza, waffles and butter etc...day or 2 later....10lbs heavier and cosmetically looked leaner.

    Kept fats lower too....

    Experiment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattPorter View Post
    Experiment.
    x 2

    This is what it is going to come down to. And even more so with you, as you are not the norm in the way you handle carbs, clearly.

    Try a few different notable protocols, see what you look and feel the best on, and also which you find the most ENJOYABLE. A BIG part of the refeed is the psychological impact as well.

    You may find one approach that lends itself better to you, but need to tweak it a bit for yourself.

    But DO THEM. Don't eat 2 waffles, and bail out. Coming into that refeed you are so depleted with all your intense training sessions, low bf, lack of carbs, etc you are not going to store BF.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Reynolds View Post
    You can.

    Again, Lyle is ONE opinion of many opinions. There are some people like Scott Abel who have their clients eat whatever they want, even if it is Big Macs and doughnuts. Some keep fat low, like Skip etc. Pick one, try it, and see what you feel works best.

    Reading about it isn't going to tell you anything, especially since you aren't the norm.

    Did you watch the videos I linked? If so did you take nothing away from that? He explains about doing exactly what you are wanting to do.

    At your bf , and level of depletion it is going to be hard to do any damage. You could literally eat 20k calories of ****, and be fine, as long as your other 6days are accounting for it.

    Another thread
    http://www.intensemuscle.com/showthread.php?t=43733
    Another
    http://www.intensemuscle.com/showthread.php?t=33411


    Absolutely, I did watch the whole thing actually and thank you again for the link
    everything was very interesting (and the guy is funny I was having a ball last night)
    Yes indeed he explained very well and actually I got plenty of info about the whole skipload/refeed

    My diet on the other 6 days (actually atm every day..) is as straight as it gets, I never *ever*
    cheat, 101% clean and planned. Lately with the last run of Ebol I've been able to boost calories
    (first time in 2 years) and actually gained almost 5lbs while being more vascular and leaner.
    But the increased cals come 100% from protein (as also suggested in the product description).
    Insane strength gains also, of course my superstressed body benefits a lot by adaptogens.

    Thing is, I start to really have issues functioning outside the gym, it seems all my energy are
    there, but in there only.
    I mentioned strength gains, incredible how i keep bashing my PRs - then almost passin out -
    but once I'm done, hell.. I have really hard time going thru the rest of the day

    Anyways, I guess I can give a shot to the cereals, I like them so, worse case scenario even if I
    will look like **** and the refeed won't have the desired effect, at least I'll enjoy the meal



    Quote Originally Posted by mattrag View Post
    You can easily go on bulk.. Just the image deal. I'm not even nearly as lean as you but I've been a fatty all my life and I'm afraid of going back.. Just fear. But I think I'm gonna need to bulk soon.
    I know, it ain't happening.. No way. Not only out of fear but mostly because my goal is not becoming
    200lbs of muscle really, I'm not hating my actual condition really, I could be better? Of course, always..
    but as I said some lines above is more like because I have no energy left once i'm done with the wo,
    I'm literally *dead* for the rest of the day most of the times, plus lately weights went up a lot
    I broke squats, flat bench and deadlift PRs two times in two weeks, and deadlift by almost 15lbs!

    Sometimes I cannot understand how this is possible knowing how low my energy is
    when I leave the weight room, zombie-like..

    So the whole refeed thing is for health first (my hormone balance is indeed fuc#ed up), and because
    I can sense, maybe I'm wrong but I don't think so, that with the mole of workouts that i'm putting myself
    into I could definitely pack another *lean* 6/8lbs easily just nailing the refeed.

    I mean I put +4lbs just boosting protein for a total amount of 200/250cals a day
    in 3 weeks when in cal deficit, just having a "refeed-non-refeed" with only protein and fats (technically
    just eating more of the same stuff that I eat everyday), imagine if I nail a good carb based refeed!

    I'll try the cereal thing, experimenting is the only way for me, wish me luck guys

    oh and thank you all so far and to everyone that will chime in
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattPorter View Post
    Is that you in your avatar? If so, you are very lean and legit single digit bf%. You have alot more liberty to refeed and fill out more than LESS lean people. In fact, the less lean you are the shorter the refeed window should be. If you maintain that leanness (in avatar) all the time, you will be depleted faster than a high bf% person. Therefore, you could potentially do bi-weekly refeeds. The bi weekly refeed is along the lines of Rob Faigen's Natural Hormonal Enhancement book, but you can tweak things to suit your needs.

    I have done it multiple ways....When I did a TKD approach I would eat for 15-18 hours....and fat was NOT lowered. Pizza, waffles and butter etc...day or 2 later....10lbs heavier and cosmetically looked leaner.

    Kept fats lower too....

    Experiment.
    Yes Matt,
    that's me, actual (and all year round as well) condition, you can see more pix in my album
    were taken for the last log in here.

    Thank you, your feedback is much appreciated, I'm *sure* I'd benefit from this protocol,
    that's why I'm not giving up, just a matter of finding the right way :/
    Experiment will be done then
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    IMO use almond milk or something other then dairy for the cereal.

    Good luck.
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    i think ur idea that maybe ur body has built up a so called "intolerance" to teh carbs is possible....keep trying it out and see what happens...other than that i say try doign a decent amt of simple cars, since it seems liek u really want that cereal, and also some slower carbs, have a mix of both jsut keep playin around with it, but dont deprive yourself unless ur results start going in teh wrong direction ya know
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Reynolds View Post
    x 2

    This is what it is going to come down to. And even more so with you, as you are not the norm in the way you handle carbs, clearly.

    Try a few different notable protocols, see what you look and feel the best on, and also which you find the most ENJOYABLE. A BIG part of the refeed is the psychological impact as well.

    You may find one approach that lends itself better to you, but need to tweak it a bit for yourself.

    But DO THEM. Don't eat 2 waffles, and bail out. Coming into that refeed you are so depleted with all your intense training sessions, low bf, lack of carbs, etc you are not going to store BF.
    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Reynolds View Post
    IMO use almond milk or something other then dairy for the cereal.

    Good luck.
    Thanks bro

    also for this last thing about the milk, I didn't think about it

    Indeed, the sanity side of the refeed is also something I'm looking for
    because while I'm used to the ass-kickin' both in the gym and at the table
    hell, I could use an enjoyable cereal day a great deal

    Monday would be it, we'll see how it goes, I've already got the cereals,
    first time I wanna try just with ONE kind of carb to better monitoring both results
    and possible stomach problems.
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    soudns good man, g/l...what are the cereals of choice? lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by AutoKal47 View Post
    Monday would be it, we'll see how it goes, I've already got the cereals,
    first time I wanna try just with ONE kind of carb to better monitoring both results
    and possible stomach problems.
    That makes sense.

    And keep in mind that you didn't get where you are over night, so it may take a few days, weeks, months to get your body handling carbs again, even if it is on this one day.

    What cereal are you going with?

    Typically with cereal I mix some whey/protein with water, and use that as my "milk". A good vanilla goes a long way with some delicious cereals..haha
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkretz View Post
    soudns good man, g/l...what are the cereals of choice? lol
    What I got is a no-brand really, I just bought them few hours ago
    I went for the classic Rice Krispies for the low sugar/low fat, puffed rice, should be easy to digest
    and I can add a tbs of choc whey for flavor (or almond milk as suggested)
    and then i went for some cheerios knockouts (I mean exactly the same shape
    and kind) for the sugary ones.
    But these have much better profile, 1gr of fat, 8gr of protein and 80+ carbs (36 sugar/honey)
    the cereal itself is mixed whole flours, honey coated, they got a great deal of vitamins, riboflavin etc..
    I spend quite some time reading labels at the store today


    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Reynolds View Post
    That makes sense.

    And keep in mind that you didn't get where you are over night, so it may take a few days, weeks, months to get your body handling carbs again, even if it is on this one day.

    What cereal are you going with?

    Typically with cereal I mix some whey/protein with water, and use that as my "milk". A good vanilla goes a long way with some delicious cereals..haha
    Exactly, that's what I'm gonna do, just put a bit of whey in water and use that
    with cereals, as for which ones I got, listed them above
    One type sugary/honey coated, and one almost no sugar (Rice Krispies have 77gr of carbs but only 7gr of sugar x 100gr of product, good profile)

    What do you think?
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    I don't know if you get these over there, but I get this stuff. No HFCS, or anything like that, and they have all the replicas of the good stuff.
    http://momsbestnaturals.com/
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    Sponge Bob cereal, cinna toast crunch, cinna-bon cereal etc....

    I always am a nutcase and will use water mixed with vanilla protein to replace milk and add protein into the extreme insulin response....but yes almond milk/coconut milk would suffice.

    I know carbs are the SOLE PURPOSE for refeeding and protein is typically not worried about BUT I just want to maximize my high insulin levels and drive aminos into cells.....

    obsessive compulsive man....
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattPorter View Post
    Sponge Bob cereal, cinna toast crunch, cinna-bon cereal etc....

    I always am a nutcase and will use water mixed with vanilla protein to replace milk and add protein into the extreme insulin response....but yes almond milk/coconut milk would suffice.

    I know carbs are the SOLE PURPOSE for refeeding and protein is typically not worried about BUT I just want to maximize my high insulin levels and drive aminos into cells.....

    obsessive compulsive man....
    I do the same thing, as I said above. I am just recommending he not use actual milk(not going to help potential GI issues IMO)
    Almond milk
    Coconut milk
    Either of those with protein powder..
    Water with protein

    I have eaten so much cereal with protein powder/water as my "milk" it tastes weird without it..lol

    Quote Originally Posted by AutoKal47 View Post



    Exactly, that's what I'm gonna do, just put a bit of whey in water and use that
    with cereals, as for which ones I got, listed them above
    One type sugary/honey coated, and one almost no sugar (Rice Krispies have 77gr of carbs but only 7gr of sugar x 100gr of product, good profile)

    What do you think?
    I think that is fine.

    Eat whichever cereals you like, and WANT to eat. Make it enjoyable. I eat like Matt Porter posted. I don't avoid sugar at all.

    I eat rice crispy....treats...lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Reynolds View Post
    I don't know if you get these over there, but I get this stuff. No HFCS, or anything like that, and they have all the replicas of the good stuff.
    http://momsbestnaturals.com/
    I can check if I can find something like this on the organic sections, I'm sure there's gonna be something like that


    Quote Originally Posted by MattPorter View Post
    Sponge Bob cereal, cinna toast crunch, cinna-bon cereal etc....

    I always am a nutcase and will use water mixed with vanilla protein to replace milk and add protein into the extreme insulin response....but yes almond milk/coconut milk would suffice.

    I know carbs are the SOLE PURPOSE for refeeding and protein is typically not worried about BUT I just want to maximize my high insulin levels and drive aminos into cells.....

    obsessive compulsive man....
    Absolutely, I'm all excited now about the cereals lol, for some reason I didn't think about them up until now,
    plus I have the choice of trying the Krispies (no sugar) or the sugary ones.. and see how it goes.

    Definitely gonna use a bit of whey with water with them, that's also how I was doing it
    when eating them years ago.

    indeed
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Reynolds View Post
    I do the same thing, as I said above. I am just recommending he not use actual milk(not going to help potential GI issues IMO)
    Almond milk
    Coconut milk
    Either of those with protein powder..
    Water with protein

    I have eaten so much cereal with protein powder/water as my "milk" it tastes weird without it..lol



    I think that is fine.

    Eat whichever cereals you like, and WANT to eat. Make it enjoyable. I eat like Matt Porter posted. I don't avoid sugar at all.

    I eat rice crispy....treats...lol
    Same for me, i don't like milk and I'm used to water/whey as my milk as well

    Indeed, I'ma also pick a box of some that I want and enjoy eating,
    I think that will also play a BIG part of how many carbs I'll be able to eat, you know?
    With oats.. damn, I can shove those down my throat only that much..
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    So whats the consensus on simple vs complex to sum it up in laymans?
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronJP1 View Post
    So whats the consensus on simple vs complex to sum it up in laymans?
    Like anything else. Try both, and form your own opinion.

    There are arguments for both sides. There are people who get into insane condition eating both. There is no definitive answer, IMO.
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    I did simple thinking it would be anabolic. And I got fat. Doc told me to lose weight lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mugen112
    I did simple thinking it would be anabolic. And I got fat. Doc told me to lose weight lol.
    Right lol
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    I know by definition it was an anabolic effect but it wasn't like all the articles said. I stay away from simple when I can. I like orange juice in the morning.
  

  
 

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