Simple vs complex carbs: the last word?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mugen112
    I know by definition it was an anabolic effect but it wasn't like all the articles said. I stay away from simple when I can. I like orange juice in the morning.
    Rights that mostly consides with what I read.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mugen112
    I did simple thinking it would be anabolic. And I got fat. Doc told me to lose weight lol.
    Without knowing more, we can't draw much from this, but sounds like you did it wrong
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Reynolds

    Without knowing more, we can't draw much from this, but sounds like you did it wrong
    Didn't like my glycobol offer?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronJP1

    Didn't like my glycobol offer?

    Decided to go a different route. I have a gda stock pile going. Other then bcaa it is the only other supp I use these days lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Reynolds

    Decided to go a different route. I have a gda stock pile going. Other then bcaa it is the only other supp I use these days lol.
    I got cha Frank...
    I also take it u like ABC evening news










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    I even used recompadrol during my simple carb diet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mugen112 View Post
    I even used recompadrol during my simple carb diet.
    Ok..lol

    You could use t3, gh, test, tren, and var, and if your diet is ****, you will get fat.

    There is no telling, as you haven't posted anything in regards to your diet.

    This thread is about refeeds. Were you refeeding?
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    No I was just comparing simple to complex like the thread title suggested and u r right I wasn't refeeding I was going overboard thinking more is better.
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    ill take some glycobol!
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkretz
    ill take some glycobol!
    Seems you really want to earn some glycobol

    There's a lot of contest going on have you participated in any?
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronJP1 View Post
    Seems you really want to earn some glycobol

    There's a lot of contest going on have you participated in any?
    i have......jsut think it woudl work real good when im takin in at least 200 grams of carbs in one meal during my bulk on lean gains
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkretz
    i have......jsut think it woudl work real good when im takin in at least 200 grams of carbs in one meal during my bulk on lean gains
    There's a sale that will get u 50% off a swole stack.

    U get a test booster, an OTC estrogen control test booster and glycobol for $55 shipped!
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkretz View Post
    i have......jsut think it woudl work real good when im takin in at least 200 grams of carbs in one meal during my bulk on lean gains
    Honestly if your carbs are post-workout it isn't as important, especially on LG.
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    well they arent all post.... still woudl be cool to see what it coudl do............. and id love to do that stack but test boosters wont do aynthign for me nfortunateyl since i am on androgel :-(
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkretz View Post
    well they arent all post.... still woudl be cool to see what it coudl do............. and id love to do that stack but test boosters wont do aynthign for me nfortunateyl since i am on androgel :-(
    Then buy a $27 dollar bottle of glycobol on sale..lol

    How do you split them. I typically kinda "carb backload" with only 25g in my fast breaker at 12noon, and 150+ post workout at 5.
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    Yeah u can get the swole stack for an extra $20.

    The test boosters can be used as part of a PCT protocol
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    Quote Originally Posted by AaronJP1 View Post
    Yeah u can get the swole stack for an extra $20.

    The test boosters can be used as part of a PCT protocol
    He just said he is on androgel broseph..lol Not going to do much for someone in that scenario.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Reynolds
    He just said he is on androgel broseph..lol Not going to do much for someone in that scenario.
    Got cha
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Reynolds View Post
    Then buy a $27 dollar bottle of glycobol on sale..lol

    How do you split them. I typically kinda "carb backload" with only 25g in my fast breaker at 12noon, and 150+ post workout at 5.
    since my fast breaker is usuall y psot workout its usually about 200g at about 2-3 o clock then another 70 later on and another 20-30 in the last meal......

    if i have a pre w/o meal as a fast breaker its usually about 75 carbs an anywhere form 130-150 post workout round 5-6 and naother liek 20-30 before bed....those days tend to be lower in carbs just cuz i still ahve an issue with 200 carbs at 6 at night so i jsut replace cals with protein and fat
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    Just wanted to give a heads up on this one since
    so many of you helped me with this. As far as stomach issues and "being able to eat"
    as many carbs as I'm suppose to for the refeed, the cereal experiment seems to work
    like a charm!

    Today was "annihilation workout", not just depleting and worth mentioning,
    following Dr Houser advice yesterday i've been able to completely cut carbs, ZERO
    to completely deplete for today's refeed.
    And tomorrow will be another superheavy day (deadlift/squats/abs)

    Anyways:

    I've been able to eat 160gr of carbs so far and I have just another 170 to go
    but I actually can't wait because I'm enjoying the cereals a lot. Now I hope the results
    will be as enjoyable as the eating but so far so good, and no GDA either (again as Doc Houser
    suggested me on the GDAs thread)
    No problems at all at keeping the fats to trace and protein to the same amount minus 40gr

    We'll see, I feel good tho'
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    So are you aiming for over maint cals?

    That is still not all that much in the way of carbs, but good to see you are tolerating it so far... Baby steps!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Reynolds View Post
    So are you aiming for over maint cals?

    That is still not all that much in the way of carbs, but good to see you are tolerating it so far... Baby steps!
    I'm aiming at eating minimum 2gr x BW carbs, then if I can make it I'll try to go over that, but yes,
    baby steps seems the safer way for both my stomach and then i wanna see how I look after this.
    I'll take it from there. For me is a great results already to have been able to eat this much carbs and at the same
    time not craving my protein (that's totally because I'm enjoying the cereals)
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    Quote Originally Posted by AutoKal47 View Post
    I'm aiming at eating minimum 2gr x BW carbs, then if I can make it I'll try to go over that, but yes,
    baby steps seems the safer way for both my stomach and then i wanna see how I look after this.
    I'll take it from there. For me is a great results already to have been able to eat this much carbs and at the same
    time not craving my protein (that's totally because I'm enjoying the cereals)
    When "clean" loading meaning minimal sugars and complex carbs such as red potatoes, sushi rice, ezekiel toast etc... I managed to eat 1400g carbs..

    It worked really well but was not nearly as FUN as cereals and pop tarts.

    The look was just as full but less water retention under the skin the following day
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattPorter View Post
    When "clean" loading meaning minimal sugars and complex carbs such as red potatoes, sushi rice, ezekiel toast etc... I managed to eat 1400g carbs..

    It worked really well but was not nearly as FUN as cereals and pop tarts.

    The look was just as full but less water retention under the skin the following day
    Holy sh#t batman 1400!
    Well you're quite bigger/heavier than I am looking at the avt
    I'm just 176lbs

    I tried every clean carbs and they just upset my stomach a lot,
    bloating and and ... Cereals worked like a charm yesterday,
    today I didn't want to look at the mirror but I couldn't resist,
    result: i was much fuller (my chest was super puffed up) and
    MORE vascular, noticeable everywhere but especially on my stomach
    and my chest, which was pretty impressive since I'm usually pretty vascular
    and it ain't easy to improve that aspect.

    Now, energy-wise today nothing to report, I had the same energy in the
    gym that I always have, probably because 260gr of carbs and a lil cut on protein
    is not THAT much to experience such thing. But, i'm very happy I've been able to do
    at least that, baby steps

    Sugar content of the cereals I picked (the sugary ones) is not massive,
    they have 24gr of sugar x 100gr of product (80gr carbs)
    Rice Krispies have only 7gt of sugar, I used the sugary ones pwo
    and the Krispies for the 2nd and 3rd meals

    You say less water retention the next day with the clean carbs,
    I need to ask you this then: have you noticed if the difference (between clean and not-so clean)
    is only about the water retention the next day or also in the long term fat storage/body comp?


    I was pretty surprised today to see myself bigger/fuller and at the same time more
    vascular, I'll keep an eye on it the next days but I don't think the next day should be the "worse" right?
    I mean i don't think I'll lose tone/definition days after the refeed.. especially thinking I'm back in cal deficit
    (my regular diet) already.
    I didn't count calories but honestly I don't even think I went much higher than a regular day IF I went higher
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    How tall are you ^^ Just curious.

    Atleast you got one down. Now time to increase it.

    Quite honestly I don't count anything. I just EAT CARBS.lol I easily can get over 2k g's without even trying these days. I typically tend not to hold a lot of sub-q water either way, and any that I am holding is gone within 1 full day post refeed, and that is on a non workout day.

    What typically will happen is you will flatten out as the week goes on, you don't lose definition, quite the opposite, but you likely will be much flatter. At least for me there is a pretty huge difference between "flat" and "full" in terms of appearance.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Reynolds View Post
    How tall are you ^^ Just curious.

    Atleast you got one down. Now time to increase it.

    Quite honestly I don't count anything. I just EAT CARBS.lol I easily can get over 2k g's without even trying these days. I typically tend not to hold a lot of sub-q water either way, and any that I am holding is gone within 1 full day post refeed, and that is on a non workout day.

    What typically will happen is you will flatten out as the week goes on, you don't lose definition, quite the opposite, but you likely will be much flatter. At least for me there is a pretty huge difference between "flat" and "full" in terms of appearance.
    Yeah i gotta say it this was the first time I actually looked better
    in the mirror after a refeed, my chest was seriously bigger and had veins
    all over (i mean more than usual lol..) it makes sense because the refeed
    started pwo, chest day (as for McDonald I think advice, doing the refeed
    between two heavy wo days instead of day off makes it somewhat anabolic)
    And definitely I was more vascular, meaning - even if I didn't actually drop any body fat
    which would be silly to expect with just one refeed, and even small-ish - my BF
    wasn't varied, which coupled with the fullness makes happy times indeed.
    So experiment went well so far.
    Something to mention is, I've been able to eat as much as i planned as minimum,
    but I also had to concentrate all my meals in the last part of the day because
    i had to work the whole day after wo, so next time I'll actually have the whole day
    and I'll be able to spread out a bit and feel less full probably (last meal was hard to
    put down lol but i did it anyway)

    I'm 5'9" bro
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    5'9, 176 at that bf, is pretty damn solid especially eating as restricted as you do. Even more so because it seems like you stay that lean year round. You must have some decent genetics my friend!

    Keep us updated on next weeks
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Reynolds View Post
    5'9, 176 at that bf, is pretty damn solid especially eating as restricted as you do. Even more so because it seems like you stay that lean year round. You must have some decent genetics my friend!

    Keep us updated on next weeks
    Thinkin the same thing....I compete Nationally and his avatar is contest conditioning...(from what is exposed) I would need to see lower back /kidney area too......but damn. Are you hormonally enhanced, because that conditioning at that body weight is an anomaly for natural ability....a rarity if you will...

    Regarding les subQ water....well when I load on simple sugars I tend to spill over the next day and the following day after that water expels....

    On complex carbs I seem less watery the following day but think about this! When MOST load or refeed, they consume MINIMAL water as they are stuffed from all the carbs,

    Next day, you WAKE UP somewhat "dry" regardless of simple or complex because you are likely mildly dehydrated. As the day goes on and you drink high amounts of fluid.....thats when the "spilling effect" manifests.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Reynolds View Post
    5'9, 176 at that bf, is pretty damn solid especially eating as restricted as you do. Even more so because it seems like you stay that lean year round. You must have some decent genetics my friend!

    Keep us updated on next weeks
    Quote Originally Posted by MattPorter View Post
    Thinkin the same thing....I compete Nationally and his avatar is contest conditioning...(from what is exposed) I would need to see lower back /kidney area too......but damn. Are you hormonally enhanced, because that conditioning at that body weight is an anomaly for natural ability....a rarity if you will...

    Regarding les subQ water....well when I load on simple sugars I tend to spill over the next day and the following day after that water expels....

    On complex carbs I seem less watery the following day but think about this! When MOST load or refeed, they consume MINIMAL water as they are stuffed from all the carbs,

    Next day, you WAKE UP somewhat "dry" regardless of simple or complex because you are likely mildly dehydrated. As the day goes on and you drink high amounts of fluid.....thats when the "spilling effect" manifests.....
    Thanks guys

    Matt, coming from you this is a hell of a compliment,
    i don't have much self confidence really and I'm never happy with
    my body, but really I would have never expected such compliment
    thank you

    Also thank you for the explanation on the carbs/water, it makes totally sense yes.
    As for my back I do have a picture take a coupla weeks ago,
    I was tracking results from my E-Bol/Lit-Up stack (very nice btw, for a natty )
    Now I'm a bit leaner and almost 4lbs heavier than this but well, just a bit leaner really (now I mean)

    Also please don't laugh, I have absolutely NO IDEA how to pose in general, and even less
    how to flex the damn back/xmas tree lol, I tried, I just can't make it
    But i snapped a pic of my back because I was trying to actually catch it
    on tape because the lines at the bottom of my back started to show up some so.. yeah here it is:

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    You are peeled man, with some tremendously thin skin. I can't even believe you have packed on that much mass eating as restricted as you do. It is pretty phenomenal actually, and even more so as a natural.

    I know it doesn't fit in your goals, and it would never happen, but I can't help but think about if you actually BULKED, even cutting it short at about 10-11% BF, and the kind of mass you could probably accumulate.

    I think these refeeds may help things further. At your level of leanness, and if you don't want to do an all out refeed as some of us do, 2 a week is a viable option done closer to how you did the last one.

    Seriously bud, you appear to have some VERY good genetics, you should really exploit them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Reynolds View Post
    You are peeled man, with some tremendously thin skin. I can't even believe you have packed on that much mass eating as restricted as you do. It is pretty phenomenal actually, and even more so as a natural.

    I know it doesn't fit in your goals, and it would never happen, but I can't help but think about if you actually BULKED, even cutting it short at about 10-11% BF, and the kind of mass you could probably accumulate.

    I think these refeeds may help things further. At your level of leanness, and if you don't want to do an all out refeed as some of us do, 2 a week is a viable option done closer to how you did the last one.

    Seriously bud, you appear to have some VERY good genetics, you should really exploit them.
    Thank you bro
    got me off balance really ahah,
    as i've never seen myself as nothing
    but normo-good-ish genetic type lol

    But I'm also not completely blind and
    I am ok with my actual condition considering
    I've always been natty.

    I wouldn't bulk you're right but i am indeed
    convinced I can get out more out of myself,
    considering all this in - as you said - such cal
    restriction and strict diet (lol mass out of rage and willpower)
    and I'm convinced that the refeed protocol, once I nail the right
    formula, could bring some nice improvement.
    My body probably is starving from nutrients and such
    I can sense giving it a tad more in the right way
    could do wonders, that's why I've been so stubborn about
    it and harassed the board for advice
    But the last experiment went good, I'd say great,
    I'll keep going, track results and report.

    Actually, as I mentioned, today - 3 days from the refeed -
    I can def say my cuts look deeper and overall i feel fuller
    and vascularity isn't changed, if anything is better
    my legs are roadmap all day long and well.. I do think I look better
    and I usually don't have that impression lol if that makes any sense
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    I am trying to follow along... I am staying quite though. This is a very complex diet to follow... I suppose someone of my stature shouldnt be trying this. I am going to read up on refeeds, loading ect. because right now I am blown away. If not to much to ask can one of you that is doing this post 1 day activities/diet/workout/anything so I can grasp a little of how and why this tactic is used? If not here any particular sites you refer to?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Reynolds View Post
    You are peeled man, with some tremendously thin skin. I can't even believe you have packed on that much mass eating as restricted as you do. It is pretty phenomenal actually, and even more so as a natural.

    I know it doesn't fit in your goals, and it would never happen, but I can't help but think about if you actually BULKED, even cutting it short at about 10-11% BF, and the kind of mass you could probably accumulate.

    I think these refeeds may help things further. At your level of leanness, and if you don't want to do an all out refeed as some of us do, 2 a week is a viable option done closer to how you did the last one.

    Seriously bud, you appear to have some VERY good genetics, you should really exploit them.
    Most likely without being hormonally assisted him bulking would not be NEARLY as impressive as him staying this lean year around. As a natural, you would have less likelihood of "blowing up lean" since you wouldnt have optimal hormone levels to partition MOST nutrients to muscle cells and less to fat cells.

    If you ever did such a practice natural, I would say your best bet would be to do STRICT 'mini diets" and go above maintenance for 3 weeks MAX before cutting again.

    Can you imagine this guy hormonally assisted? If you ever did want to take hormones as safe and legal as possible. PM me and I can perhaps get you a sponsored log on some of our products.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattPorter View Post
    Most likely without being hormonally assisted him bulking would not be NEARLY as impressive as him staying this lean year around. As a natural, you would have less likelihood of "blowing up lean" since you wouldnt have optimal hormone levels to partition MOST nutrients to muscle cells and less to fat cells.

    If you ever did such a practice natural, I would say your best bet would be to do STRICT 'mini diets" and go above maintenance for 3 weeks MAX before cutting again.

    Can you imagine this guy hormonally assisted? If you ever did want to take hormones as safe and legal as possible. PM me and I can perhaps get you a sponsored log on some of our products.
    Bulking is a very difficult thing to do unassisted if you are not willing to put on a lot of extra fat. Then you will have to work quite hard and use assistance to cut back. I know others will disagree but this is just how it goes... Unless you are very far from genetic limit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattPorter View Post
    Most likely without being hormonally assisted him bulking would not be NEARLY as impressive as him staying this lean year around. As a natural, you would have less likelihood of "blowing up lean" since you wouldnt have optimal hormone levels to partition MOST nutrients to muscle cells and less to fat cells.

    If you ever did such a practice natural, I would say your best bet would be to do STRICT 'mini diets" and go above maintenance for 3 weeks MAX before cutting again.

    Can you imagine this guy hormonally assisted? If you ever did want to take hormones as safe and legal as possible. PM me and I can perhaps get you a sponsored log on some of our products.
    By bulking I am more talking like what you are referring to, and not "BULKING" with the intention of getting big and doughy. Even getting up around a legit 10%, backing it down a bit, repeat. He clearly has an amazing ability to not only retain muscle, but GAIN muscle in what appears like damn near stage ready condition. In his case maybe even coming up to 7-8%, backing down, etc. I am a big fan of the "mini diet" approach myself.

    I just am impressed he has accumulated what he has, on what seems like an absurd amount of time on ZERO carbs, and in a crazy calorie restriction.

    Assisted, it would likely be absurd...LOL

    Remind me to bitch slap my parents tomorrow at Thanksgiving dinner for the **** genetics..LMAO

    Quote Originally Posted by mattrag View Post
    Bulking is a very difficult thing to do unassisted if you are not willing to put on a lot of extra fat. Then you will have to work quite hard and use assistance to cut back. I know others will disagree but this is just how it goes... Unless you are very far from genetic limit.
    Or you are genetically gifted.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Reynolds View Post
    Remind me to bitch slap my parents tomorrow at Thanksgiving dinner for the **** genetics..LMAO


    Or you are genetically gifted.
    quoted for truth lol.

    My mom starved the entire time she was pregnant with me... said she would throw up everything she ate.. surprised I was even developed... My genes tell my body to EAT and store FAT. Thanks mom....
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattPorter View Post
    Most likely without being hormonally assisted him bulking would not be NEARLY as impressive as him staying this lean year around. As a natural, you would have less likelihood of "blowing up lean" since you wouldnt have optimal hormone levels to partition MOST nutrients to muscle cells and less to fat cells.

    If you ever did such a practice natural, I would say your best bet would be to do STRICT 'mini diets" and go above maintenance for 3 weeks MAX before cutting again.

    Can you imagine this guy hormonally assisted? If you ever did want to take hormones as safe and legal as possible. PM me and I can perhaps get you a sponsored log on some of our products.
    Without having any experience at bulking, that would be my guess too
    Believe it or not, I've been "peeking" in some PP 3d in here
    because I've always said the andro series would have been
    the *only* line I would have tried if I ever did want to take that route,
    you can probably see my posts around, no kidding.
    I'm probably close to what I can achieve naturally,
    gods know I train as hard as i stick to my diet.. I mean, I'm 34,
    I have considered it yes, especially because such a strict diet
    and hc training brings sides probably more than a cycle lol

    But I know really absolute nothing about PHs, I'd really need assistance
    and help with everything, diet, dosing, interaction with other things.. etc
    Ima PM you tho' if anything, even just to get info, and thank you for this
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    Good luck on this log man!!
    Imma run andromass most likely lol.
    Ran hard and lean.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattrag View Post
    Good luck on this log man!!
    Imma run andromass most likely lol.
    Ran hard and lean.
    thanks bro
    They are tempting indeed, we'll see
    it would be a whole new game for me
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    Quote Originally Posted by AutoKal47 View Post
    thanks bro
    They are tempting indeed, we'll see
    it would be a whole new game for me
    Do you have or are you starting a log?
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