Need a meal plan for alot of conditioning

[tubbednova]

Im 33 at 10-10.5%from week to week at 181-182lb(water)
I need a good plan for my training.Taking next week of from almost everything might swim alot or on that line.
Thinking im starting to overreach/train

My training consists of 45+min in morning of heavy-bag(25-30min)with a routine of plyo-push-ups 4/25(med ball)weighted sit-ups 4/25x,weighted jump squats/box,d/b japs,100 ball cruntchs+100 bicycles mybe some planks in the mix and ball slams.

Drink a 20g whey shake mixed with coffee before hand(5:45am)followed by breakfast at 7:45am.
I've been eating 3000cals alot of veggies and lean chick,tuna,steak(grass-fed)fruit only apple,bannana,cup oj with breakfast.

Im pretty happy at curent stats just starting to lose some strenght on some things(chest,bi's)Im lifting mon,tue,thur,fri with a full body circuit on sat.

Getting fatigue during day after lunch(like body is saving cals for coming w/o)
Im buring 600avg cals in morning and 600-1000cals evening in training alone.

My bmr is 1965cals to live.Do i need atleast this?Just with exercise im down to around 1400cals to live on for day.

Almost all my training is done at 140+bpm with highs of 165+(hiit)
Don't do any steady-state(don't like it)Do swim on sat morning.
Goal is to stay lean build strengh and enjoy life without fatigue!
I want to continue to train hard or harder but not worry about overtraining.

 

[Rodja]

Have you thought about pulling back on your training? For example, you can't train at an ultra high level everyday without experiencing some level of fatigue to the CNS. Even a full training camp does not go all-out every session.

One thing I'm still noticing is a lack of the fats you include. I get between 160-200g of fat on my maintenance days and my cheat days are probably closer to 300g of fat.

 

[tubbednova]

Cheat?whats that???LOL.
Yeah going to cut back got two days to go.
Taking next week off going to eat around 2400cals to survive.
Get a trainer or something for following week.
Whats your week looking like Rodja?Wanta train someone??
Oh you live in texas.
I hate eating fat now thats all i ate on my last recovery week i mean alot!

Thinking about a full body w/o 3x week with my training divided up though week instead of 2x a day.Something short and intense in morning and bag/body on off days.

 

[MakaveliThaDon]

Cheat?whats that???LOL.
Yeah going to cut back got two days to go.
Taking next week off going to eat around 2400cals to survive.
Get a trainer or something for following week.
Whats your week looking like Rodja?Wanta train someone??
Oh you live in texas.
I hate eating fat now thats all i ate on my last recovery week i mean alot!

Thinking about a full body w/o 3x week with my training divided up though week instead of 2x a day.Something short and intense in morning and bag/body on off days.

cutting back on your cals in your off week is a TERRIBLE idea. I promise you if you lower your cals during your off week you will not adequately recover and the off week will have done you almost no good once you start back up. Additionally I do not think a week is nearly long enough to recover once you have found yourself in an overtraining rut. It's happened to me a few times over the years, and I needed a couple of weeks bordering on a month with above maintenance cals the whole time to pull out of it and get my body back right.

 

[SweetLou321]

Way to overthink training to the max, your goals are to increase strength and train hard. So the dynamic work in the am and your body builder work in the pm is a but much. Im with rodja, pull back on the training and increase fats. I eat 90-100g a day, 120-130 on off days usually. Id suggest you look into 5/3/1 or westside for skinny bastards v3. Both are strength programs and you get to train hard.

 

[SweetLou321]

cutting back on your cals in your off week is a TERRIBLE idea. I promise you if you lower your cals during your off week you will not adequately recover and the off week will have done you almost no good once you start back up. Additionally I do not think a week is nearly long enough to recover once you have found yourself in an overtraining rut. It's happened to me a few times over the years, and I needed a couple of weeks bordering on a month with above maintenance cals the whole time to pull out of it and get my body back right.

Deloading regularly can help avoid this

 

[MakaveliThaDon]

Deloading regularly can help avoid this

sure it can. But when you have trained more than just casually for any lengthy period of time, say a decade or more, it's bound to happen to you a few times. That's just the nature of the beast.

 

[tubbednova]

Thanks guys i was thinking the 2400cals was maitance.
I really hate to take off more then a week.Don't think im overtrained but very close /morning heart rate is still around 44bpm just need to stop before it hits.
Got to get diet right my bmr is 1965cals and with exercise only im down to 1700cals not adding working and activeity during day is what im living on.
I know im eating 3000cals a day but minus 1300=1700cals when my body alone needs 1900 to function.

 

[SweetLou321]

You know those calculations are probably off, as everyone is different...if gaining is your goal, eat till u start gaining a lb a week. Ppl are so afraid of food anymore.

 

[tubbednova]

maintaining with some fat loss here n there is what im shooting for.
Got down to 10% don't see the need to go alot lower im not trying to be a bodybuilder or model.

Just want to have endurance/strengh and have energy though day.
I'll always eat clean mybe a cheat on a holiday.
When i do cheat its never bad mybe a bite of pie and alittle more ham then usually have.

 

[Torobestia]

Take a week off, eat at maintenance or a little over. I'd definitely up fats like Rodja suggested during that time. Don't worry about the scale on your 1 week off. Don't swim at all. If you do anything, even cardio, do it at low intensity. But honestly I wouldn't move at all beyond getting from point A to B or taking leisurely walks.

After the week off, reassess how you feel before going back to the gym.

 

[tubbednova]

I feel guilty eating the bowl of cereal on sunday morning that i have.
Its even healthy!
Going to do p/b on spouted toast with orange and an omeltte and a lean shake this sunday to me thats a cheat meal.

Im surrounded by food thats all sugar,fat,carbs so i have willpower.
Sooner eat a big bowl of oats with skim and a tsp of brown sugar ohh i eat that everyday now.

Just like to be on a plan with food with taste and value.

 

[SweetLou321]

analysis paralysis

 

[scherbs]

Tubbed--
I think you need to decide what your priorities are here. You seem too ADDICTED to training to seriously entertain the very good suggestions you have received to back off a bit.

 

[tubbednova]

Im backing off a good bit.
I have no choice..
Going to take this week to recover and come up with a training routine to start following week.

Can't go on like this nomore.
Just going to eat healthy plan this week do alittle ab work and figure out meal plan changes and calories i need to train hard and not over do it

I added up everything and everyday im 300-500 below my bmr in exercise alone.
So my body is actually shutting down which it feels like.
I take everyone's advice,piece it together and find what works for me not just them.

 

[MakaveliThaDon]

I've been in similar situations, though I'm sure not exactly the same. It would have appeared to anyone on the outside looking in I was too addicted as well to give anything a rest, however this was not the case. I just honestly had to do 10 times more than a normal person to achieve anything close to the results I wanted with my physique. This obviously eventually led to an EXTREME overtraining rut for quite a while. And what I found was that I had some other non related health issues that were the underlying reason for WHY I had to do 10 times more than I should have to see the results. Once I got those ironed out I was able to achieve the same results on a much more reasonable level of exercise and diet.

So maybe you are addicted, but if it's the latter, like my situation was, I encourage you to go get some blood work done and make sure you are healthy man.

 

[scherbs]

Not to start a ruckus here, but the 'addicted' comment from me was aimed at the fact that the OP spoke of an heavy training regimen, is analyzing the hell out of everything, and seems very unwilling to take it easy on himself.
All of these are consistent with exercise addiction, body dysmorphia, eating disorders, etc.
OP: I am not saying that you have any of these disorders!
I do, however, have a bit of experience w/ them and I encourage you to re-evaluate your fitness regimen and the motivations behind it--especially if you are making yourself miserable.

 

[Rodja]

The main culprit is the one thing that everyone is ignoring and that is age. Your test and GH levels have started to curtail and it is slowing your recovery. A few easy ways to increase your natty test production are increased saturated fats (EVCO would be my recommendation), extra Omega-3, and some DAA.

 

[tubbednova]

Already had blood work done showed i had a low t-level and thyroid problem.
Most of it came from overtraining.
Took time off was given t cream and armour thyroid med
Stopped taking cream and t went up.
Thyroid med made no difference only diet and rest did.

I know i need a recovery week to relieve stress from training and diet(not going to eat crap)
During week set up routine for training/lifting and make changes to diet.
Like training in morning and lifting in evening.
Mybe full-body mon,wed,thur with int. training on off days something on that line instead of morning int and post lifting

 

[tubbednova]

Well all my hard training for the week made me lose a lb of muscle and b/f went up .5%.
So trained to hard and didn't eat enough.
First day to a week or two of recovery.

Did some research and guess im going to do some cross country during week.
Mybe swimming/push-ups/chin-ups/crunchs and sit-ups play with my med ball.
But not over do it.
Any advice for nutition for this week would be great.
40/40/20?2400cals?

Want to recover good this time.

 

[SweetLou321]

LOL dude, a recovery week doesnt mean go pick up a sport to push yourself in. Since your so so obsessed with this.
Eat 3000-3500 cals a day, increase fats, saturated too.
Lifting is training, conditioning is suppose to better your training, not take away from it.
Try lifting 4 days a week, for the next week or two do a deload, go do 50% of the weight you normally do and less volume, just get some blood moving and leave. Then on two of your off days do some conditioning work. This would be much better i think. Again analysis paralysis.

 

[MakaveliThaDon]

yah dude, you can't just pick up a new sport to play in your "off" week. I've tried it before. I do a lot of both cardio AND weights. I said to myself ok I'm gonna drop the cardio this week and just go all out on the weights that will help me recover. Not even close. And I've also said ok I'm gonna drop the weights this week and just up the cardio a bit, that should give my body time to recover....not even close. You really need a week off of doing ANYTHING at a decent level of intensity. Do just enough to get some blood flowing, almost like a stretch session every day, keep the muscles loose, and that's it, nothing more nothing less. It's the only way you will be able to recover.

 

[SweetLou321]

Overtraining has a lot to do with the cns system. Reducing intensity and training in general is the only way to really give it a break.

 

[tubbednova]

Going to do cross- country like swimming one morning do a full body routine(push-ups,sit-ups,chin-ups,jumpsquats)just around 130bpm nothing hard.
Mix it up from day to day and not going to eat less this time.
Sticking to 2400cals and make up cals from workouts.

 

[SweetLou321]

Just do what you want, if your not going to listen to anyone. Thats fine. Stop making threads on this topic. Dont bring it up anymore. Just do your thing.

 

[MakaveliThaDon]

I promise you your gonna make a new post in a week asking more questions about overtraining

 

[tubbednova]

I thank you's all for your time and wisdom.
The cross-training helped its like a deload.
Feeling very good with only a 2 day break.

I did listen to all you guys it just took me alittle while to do it.
So overreached was likely problem.

Been doing things that i almost enjoy fixing up house,shooting new beretta 9mm in,working on my 67 deuce.

Going to start again next week(not same routine)with two opp.eat more train the same or eat the same and train less going for second.

Lifting 3x a week with conditioning on off days and mixing heavy-bag,ab's in morning for 30min every other day.With complete rest from training/weights and diet on weekends the diet part will still be 95%clean with one treat to really scew with my body.Haven't had anything bad for me in yr or two

 

[SweetLou321]

id say make some training goals to aim for. Give yourself something to work for. Not just a bunch of conditioning

 

[tubbednova]

my goal is to have alot of endurance lean out and build some frigin strengh.
But with doing it in balance this time.
All kidding aside i really like the conditioning part in just 1 week i went from having a hard time doing 25 push-ups to being able to do them with med-ball or clapping.So thats one goal.
You think the full body is wise??And what do i do to help lagging parts?Or will everything grow together?I'll shut up sorry i over think to much.LOL

 

[SweetLou321]

Look into 5/3/1 by jim wendler for the strength part and lagging parts or Westside for skinny bastards v3.
Do conditioning work 3 times a week (hill sprints, prowler push, strong man stuff, ect)
Then Diet.

 

[tubbednova]

Got them both printed out wsfsb part 1,2 part 2 has routine for conditioning and 5/3/1 seems like it would be kinda easy.
Have you tried them?

Also if you have a 9mm and a ****s sporting goods by you there shells are $11 a box

 

[SweetLou321]

V3 is the best of the west for skinny bastards, and has a conditioning layout.
5/3/1 is amazing. Ive used them both. Im seeing good results with 5/3/1 with the built in progression and deloads. All my major lifts are up 50-80lbs right now.

 

[EasyEJL]

at slightly shorter and same weight, but less activity my real maintenance is around 2800, so i'm not sure how yours came up as 2400

 

[tubbednova]

Thats what it comes out to during time off from all the training im only doing 30min in morning now to aid in recovery and get blood flowing.

I figured i need around 3500cal to train the way i was if not more.

 

[tubbednova]

I meant part 3 put the 5/3/1 sounds like good progress your making so thats a real possiablity for me to use.
But might not work for me like you, won't know till i try.

Thats one thing i came to over this time what works for one doesn't always work for me.
(diet,training,ect)

 

[MakaveliThaDon]

at slightly shorter and same weight, but less activity my real maintenance is around 2800, so i'm not sure how yours came up as 2400

There is such a discrepancy in the calculators everyone uses. I can use 10 different BMR calculators, and add activity and what not, and I'll get 10 VERY different answers as to what my maintenance cals are, and what I should take in to lose fat etc..

One has me at 3200 and needing 2700 to lose weight, fitday has me at almost 4000 just with factoring in my job, not even any of my training, it's quite ridiculous how far apart they all are, lol.

 

[tubbednova]

Wouldn't training the body as a whole each workout lead to better strengh?
Since i'd be doing compound exercises 3x week for each body part.

like chest press
bent rows
military press
clean and jerk
deadlift
good mornings
squats
Do this 2-3/8-10x
I just made this up for example(seems pretty good though)

 

[SweetLou321]

Maybe, i like programs made for strength if that is my goal.

 

[EasyEJL]

Wouldn't training the body as a whole each workout lead to better strengh?
Since i'd be doing compound exercises 3x week for each body part.

like chest press
bent rows
military press
clean and jerk
deadlift
good mornings
squats
Do this 2-3/8-10x
I just made this up for example(seems pretty good though)

not really, because the problem there is that the body part isn't likely to recover fully in 2 days, particularly if you are having recovery issues to begin with. If you do that, i'd also rotate which body part you hit first each of the 3 days. So chest first monday, back first wed, legs first friday. At least that gives a bit better odds. Also i'd vary rep range, do lower volume heavy sets for that first body part, and more high volume lighter sets for the other body parts.

 

[tubbednova]

I know its more of a base line thing.
I know at 2200cals i lose about a lb a week doing nothing but eating the little that it comes out to and sleeping and on this thing.

Mybe 2400 isn't enough if i already burned 400 this morning.
Makes sense that i ate 3000 trained the way i did and lost muscle the week going hard core lifting/training.

 

[tubbednova]

I know about changing the order i was just giving a example of what i thought would be a full body workout.

Always start new w/o with major part (chest,back,leg)and change and deload from week to week.(chest press to incline 1 week)6-8reps to 2x 10 something like that right?

 

[EasyEJL]

yeah, I actually did different exercises per body part for each of the 3 days. so if the day was chest primary i'd do flat presses, but do decline + incline the other days. Back primary i'd do deadlifts, but do pulldowns and rows the other days, and legs i'd do squats primary and leg press or extensions the other days. So on the heavy day where it is the first exercise do the serious compound, and do less compound for the other body parts

 

[tubbednova]

Gotcha how'd it work for ya(strengh,post fatigue,recovery,size,ect)
And sets and reps you were using
Just want a idea how its work.

 

[EasyEJL]

eh it worked ok. Recovery was a bit rough for me, but mine is relatively poor anyhow. I did make some decent overall progress, but I was more of a recomp mode than gains. I was shooting for 24-40 reps total per exercise, so it would be 3 sets of 8 for the primary, and 2 or 3 sets of 12-20 for the others. I don't work out for strength as my tendons tend to fail first when I do.

 

[tubbednova]

Don't like the part about recovery im in the same boat.
But thanks for your time and the info.