Experiences with Intermittent Fasting

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Yeah natural almond butter in one particular brand comes in a 12oz jar for about $5. That's something around 1500 calories from memory. I can easily eat a jar in one sitting with a spoon (or a knife and 2 bananas)

    That is gangster.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by adnscmplx View Post
    That is gangster.
    It's funny when "hard gainers" complain about not being able to eat a single bite more a day. That 12oz jar is the same stomach volume as drinking a can of coke takes up, or a cup and a half of rice, but is 1500 calories, and healthy ones besides. I can manage to break 10,000 calories in 8 hours if I pushed hard, with clean calories no less.
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  3. I agree, people need to eat more.

    I do not have that problem. I was once a 290lb college offensive tackle and have no problem gaining weight if I want to. I am more interested in IF to lean out.

    I meant gangster as a compliment i.e. it is awesome that you just roll up to the lunch table with, among other things, a jar of PB and a spoon.

  4. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    It's funny when "hard gainers" complain about not being able to eat a single bite more a day. That 12oz jar is the same stomach volume as drinking a can of coke takes up, or a cup and a half of rice, but is 1500 calories, and healthy ones besides. I can manage to break 10,000 calories in 8 hours if I pushed hard, with clean calories no less.
    I've been on both sides of this and you're absolutely right. I used to think I could not eat any more and I was stuck at the same weight. Now I can easily manipulate it by working in higher calorie, but still clean foods. Peanut butter is a good one. Also, people need to learn to not be afraid of carbs. Just eat them. You don't need to eat 10 lbs of protein a day to gain weight. Just eat healthy foods and ignore the ratios.

  5. Quote Originally Posted by JohnRock View Post
    I've been on both sides of this and you're absolutely right. I used to think I could not eat any more and I was stuck at the same weight. Now I can easily manipulate it by working in higher calorie, but still clean foods. Peanut butter is a good one. Also, people need to learn to not be afraid of carbs. Just eat them. You don't need to eat 10 lbs of protein a day to gain weight. Just eat healthy foods and ignore the ratios.
    A pound of muscle is made of 160g (give or take) of protein. true plain maintenance of tissue is maybe .5g/lb. A natural bodybuilder MAX adds 1/2 lb of muscle a week (more like 1/4). So pretty well a 200lb natural bodybuilder really only needs 120g of protein a day on top of plenty of carb + fat calories to provide the energy to build muscle.

    Its definitely hard at first particularly on IF to get into that midset of for part of the day stuffing down 2x as much food as you normally would and then go through the next time with 0 to eat. What I did find is that it really did end up decoupling my eating from any sensation of hunger. I knew I had to eat a certain amount during eat times hungry or not, and knew I could just have water when I was hungry. After the 2 months of IF, i've never had any sort of issue controlling my food intake again as I eat what my plan is to eat when i plan to eat it, and what signals my stomach is sending is its problem
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  6. Are you taking hepatic regulation and gluconeogenesis into account there, Easy? The liver gets first pick at the protein we eat, and will reap a good 60-100g a day dependent on bodyweight; more if the diet is very high in protein or calorically insufficient.
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  7. Quote Originally Posted by Resolve View Post
    Are you taking hepatic regulation and gluconeogenesis into account there, Easy? The liver gets first pick at the protein we eat, and will reap a good 60-100g a day dependent on bodyweight; more if the diet is very high in protein or calorically insufficient.
    If there is enough carbs in the diet then that impact is lessened, plus everyone leaves out the reality that of what is used for daily protein turnover, its not like all of the amino acids of the damaged tissue turn into ashes, a significant amount of them is recovered too.

    But basically yes I was, thats why the base of roughly .5g per pound of bodyweight is there. Once you cover that plus the little bit over for what is really lost in damaged tissues having an extra 200g of protein a week is all that a natural bodybuilder would need assuming he's getting plenty of calories from carbs and fats.

    I think the only reasons so many guys believe in eating the ridiculous amounts of protein are ego, taste, and fill factor. In the end, most of what they are taking in as protein gets used no differently than if it was carbs.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    If there is enough carbs in the diet then that impact is lessened, plus everyone leaves out the reality that of what is used for daily protein turnover, its not like all of the amino acids of the damaged tissue turn into ashes, a significant amount of them is recovered too.

    But basically yes I was, thats why the base of roughly .5g per pound of bodyweight is there. Once you cover that plus the little bit over for what is really lost in damaged tissues having an extra 200g of protein a week is all that a natural bodybuilder would need assuming he's getting plenty of calories from carbs and fats.

    I think the only reasons so many guys believe in eating the ridiculous amounts of protein are ego, taste, and fill factor. In the end, most of what they are taking in as protein gets used no differently than if it was carbs.
    I tend to agree that people overdo it on the protein...but what if you are on cycle? What do you think a good amount of protein intake would be?

  9. Quote Originally Posted by mmk64 View Post
    I tend to agree that people overdo it on the protein...but what if you are on cycle? What do you think a good amount of protein intake would be?
    really even if you expect to gain 3 pounds of actual muscle a week, thats still a surplus of only around 480g for the week. an extra 80g a day more than covers that so a 200lber could get 180-200g a day. Still has to get total calories high to gain that much, but thats really all thats necessary proteinwise

  10. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    If there is enough carbs in the diet then that impact is lessened, plus everyone leaves out the reality that of what is used for daily protein turnover, its not like all of the amino acids of the damaged tissue turn into ashes, a significant amount of them is recovered too.

    But basically yes I was, thats why the base of roughly .5g per pound of bodyweight is there. Once you cover that plus the little bit over for what is really lost in damaged tissues having an extra 200g of protein a week is all that a natural bodybuilder would need assuming he's getting plenty of calories from carbs and fats.

    I think the only reasons so many guys believe in eating the ridiculous amounts of protein are ego, taste, and fill factor. In the end, most of what they are taking in as protein gets used no differently than if it was carbs.
    A very reasonable outlook. Thanks for explaining.
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    ***NOW @ NP***

  11. I have been eating like this for a couple of months now as well. I never thought I would do something of the sort, but so far it is working out well for me.

    I train fasted in the morning(bcaa), eat my first small meal around 12:30pm(greek yogurt/protein powder, and an apple), eat my large meal at 5 or so, and depending on how big my large meal was, and how I feel, I might have a pre bed meal around 8pm of greek yogurt/protein with some almonds.

    The biggest issues I am running into in terms of fat loss are:

    1. Curbing my big meal. I am so hungry by that point, that I tend to over-indulge, eat too much, and generally and make choices I would NEVER make on a normal "diet".

    2. Eating a pre-determined amount of calories. I find it a bit trickier to do so on this diet, for me atleast.

    On the plus side, I am a BIG TIME ENDO, and I pretty much eat whatever the **** I want, at night, as well as a full on refeed on Saturday, and have recomped for sure. Waist is down .5-.75" , and scale is up a lb or two.

    However to really take advantage of the fat loss, which is what I really want to start focusing on, I am going to have to really lock down my large meal.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by imprezivr6 View Post
    I have been eating like this for a couple of months now as well. I never thought I would do something of the sort, but so far it is working out well for me.

    I train fasted in the morning(bcaa), eat my first small meal around 12:30pm(greek yogurt/protein powder, and an apple), eat my large meal at 5 or so, and depending on how big my large meal was, and how I feel, I might have a pre bed meal around 8pm of greek yogurt/protein with some almonds.

    The biggest issues I am running into in terms of fat loss are:

    1. Curbing my big meal. I am so hungry by that point, that I tend to over-indulge, eat too much, and generally and make choices I would NEVER make on a normal "diet".

    2. Eating a pre-determined amount of calories. I find it a bit trickier to do so on this diet, for me atleast.

    On the plus side, I am a BIG TIME ENDO, and I pretty much eat whatever the **** I want, at night, as well as a full on refeed on Saturday, and have recomped for sure. Waist is down .5-.75" , and scale is up a lb or two.

    However to really take advantage of the fat loss, which is what I really want to start focusing on, I am going to have to really lock down my large meal.
    thats not really intermittent fasting though. You are going only what 15 hours without eating? people who eat 3 meals a day at 8am, 1pm and 6pm have almost the same gap and theres no expectation of fatloss.

  13. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    thats not really intermittent fasting though. You are going only what 15 hours without eating? people who eat 3 meals a day at 8am, 1pm and 6pm have almost the same gap and theres no expectation of fatloss.
    lol..Ok.. Well the thread was made about leangains, which is more or less what I am doing, so why not tell Martin Berkhan what he is doing is not IF.

    In fact most of this thread is about a similar fasting period, and has been mentioned several times, so I am not sure why you decided to point it out now, 2 pages into it. If you read the title, and the OP, you would think your first post in this thread would say "16hr fast? That is not IF"

    A 16hr gap in feeding is fairly big, for someone who is lifting, in addition to a high intensity sport. Even with that said, my meal at 12:30 might be 300 cals. It is roughly 24hrs before I eat a real meal.


    Call it what you will, but for all intents and purposes, of this thread it is IF.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by imprezivr6 View Post
    lol..Ok.. Well the thread was made about leangains, which is more or less what I am doing, so why not tell Martin Berkhan what he is doing is not IF.

    In fact most of this thread is about a similar fasting period, and has been mentioned several times, so I am not sure why you decided to point it out now, 2 pages into it. If you read the title, and the OP, you would think your first post in this thread would say "16hr fast? That is not IF"

    A 16hr gap in feeding is fairly big, for someone who is lifting, in addition to a high intensity sport. Even with that said, my meal at 12:30 might be 300 cals. It is roughly 24hrs before I eat a real meal.


    Call it what you will, but for all intents and purposes, of this thread it is IF.
    Yeah, just from the medical studies, it was longer spans to where there were the hormonal adaptations that really made a difference with body composition. I guess with the last meal being that small you are right in a way, but then why eat it?

  15. Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Yeah, just from the medical studies, it was longer spans to where there were the hormonal adaptations that really made a difference with body composition. I guess with the last meal being that small you are right in a way, but then why eat it?
    Like I said, I am trying to follow a similar template to lean gains, or even a modified warrior diet. Why eat it? Because that is what is outlined in the diet..lol Honestly, no other reason then that. By this time(12pm), am an pretty hungry, and that small meal is actually fairly satiating.

    Did the medical studies try a similar 16hr fast approach, on weight trained, or performance athletes?(not being a smart ass, I am curious)

    I can certainly say from my own extensive dieting experience that I am able to stay lean(for me) like this MUCH easier then with a more traditionally structured diet.

    Additionally I am adding muscle/strength, while losing fat, almost effortlessly. When traditionally, it is a struggle to even lose fat in the first place, eating 100% to a T, at my current BF%. This is the point where it gets hard for me, and I am doing an enormous amount of cardio.

    And this is with me eating considerably more calories(500-750+) now, then I normally do, plus doing far less cardio.

    To speed up fatloss however, I am going to have to really lock down my nightly meal, and add in some more cardio. I always start with a big salad, and 1lb of meat(whatever I want), but then all bets are off until I am full. Low fat cookies, Ice Cream, Fro-yo, baked lays, white rice, bread, etc, etc..lol Basically what ever I feel like. I try to keep it low fat, as I would on a refeed if I can, but it is not uncommon for me to eat a Chipotle double meat burrito, or something along those lines.

    I feel if I just tighten that up, I will accelerate fatloss, and then can even further remove carbs from it/cycle carbs, with a Saturday refeed. I might even be able to just reduce the total number of calories, of my big meal, and still leave in the less then "clean" food choices in a controlled fashion. It is something I am going to have to play with.

    The point is, as someone who has been meticulous with diet, for YEARS, it is extremely refreshing, and liberating to be able to eat like this, and maintain my condition. Rather then eating exact, weighed out portions of the same food every 2.5 hrs 6-7x a day, Sun-Fri(sat refeed). Not to mention if I happen to have to go out to dinner durring the week, or Sunday dinner at my grandparents, and have to watch my friends, and family eat whatever they want, while I sit there and drink a diet soda because my premade meal of chicken, and almonds awaits me..lol

    Ok, time to go eat my pansy of a meal..lol

  16. I guess for me, since I never bought into any of the 6-8 meals a day nonsense my eating patterns were already like that. I train fasted from 7-8am, and either have a shake by 8:30-9 or sometimes a solid meal. If a shake, followed by something solid within an hour or two. And pretty much last meal of the day is at 6ish. and then nothing till the following morning after training. so to me "normal" eating is a 14+ hour fasting anyhow.

    More of the studies were on non-resistance trained people, I think there was one or two. From memory, since it was a couple years back when I looked at it, the more significant biological marker changes started at 18 hours fasted and improved all the way out to 40 hours fasted. Growth hormone levels and insulin resistance primarily from what I recall.

  17. I've been trying to do the IF approach for a while now. My work/kid schedule sometimes gets in the way but most of the time I can just get up in the morning and not worry about breakfast or lunch and then come home a lift and really really plow some food away in my 6 or 7 hour window. I've actually gotten use to working out in a fasted state and enjoy it now (cuz I know there is gonna be a 6 egg omelet on the other side)

    you guys follow http://www.leangains.com/ at all? I'm considering becoming one of his clients to help me lay out the IF program a little better. 2 words - protein fluff!

  18. Quote Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
    I've been trying to do the IF approach for a while now. My work/kid schedule sometimes gets in the way but most of the time I can just get up in the morning and not worry about breakfast or lunch and then come home a lift and really really plow some food away in my 6 or 7 hour window. I've actually gotten use to working out in a fasted state and enjoy it now (cuz I know there is gonna be a 6 egg omelet on the other side)

    you guys follow http://www.leangains.com/ at all? I'm considering becoming one of his clients to help me lay out the IF program a little better. 2 words - protein fluff!

    Yea dude, Martin is the man. He and Alan Aragon are at the top of the pyramid as far as i'm concerned.

    I haven't tried protein fluff but I did buy some Syntrax Micelar Creme to make pudding with. Pretty bomb and cheaper than the packets from vitamin shoppe.

    I was referring to the 16 hour fast. I have no interest in alternate day fasting or anything like that. I am attracted to the 16 hour thing because it will allow me more flexibility in my meals (i.e. huge steak with avocado instead of a modest portion of chicken breast) and I will probably get to sleep in more because I'm not eating breakfast. I still don't know if I am going to go that way though.

    This thread is hot. I think it is the first one i've made that got to two pages.

  19. I'm giving it a try. Day 2 right now. I've been throwing down caffeine in the morning to max my sympathetic tone so I can be focused and not hungry.

    The 8 hour feeding phase is awesome. I've basically been eating large servings of meat with some sort of fat (avocado, olive oil, coconut oil, eggs etc.) The possibilities are endless when you are shooting for a 900 calorie meal.

    I have a grass finished brisket cooking in the oven as I type.

    In other words, so far so good.

  20. This is definitely my favorite 'diet' so far.

    Getting leaner while eating papa johns pizza and sonic!
    For me, the action IS the juice.

  21. I never tried it while eating very dirty, but I did notice fairly quick changes while eating clean.

  22. Quote Originally Posted by adnscmplx View Post
    I'm giving it a try. Day 2 right now. I've been throwing down caffeine in the morning to max my sympathetic tone so I can be focused and not hungry.

    The 8 hour feeding phase is awesome. I've basically been eating large servings of meat with some sort of fat (avocado, olive oil, coconut oil, eggs etc.) The possibilities are endless when you are shooting for a 900 calorie meal.

    I have a grass finished brisket cooking in the oven as I type.

    In other words, so far so good.
    Good stuff! so you are doing 8 hour feed, 16 hour fast? I like that layout too, and I have also tried the 6 hour feed, 18 hour fast - its hard to get all the calories in a 6 hour window, real easy to hit a calorie deficit.

  23. Yea, I'm not eating a ton of cals right now but I could go lower. Satiety is definitely a strong point.

  24. I tend to eat "clean" but really this way of eating makes cheat days easier to handle
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  25. What do your lifting routines look like? I think Martin's is low rep/heavy weights, and it looks like they are keeping it to 3x per week. The only cardio that I can glean from the blog appears to be walking.

    I am just having an issue with my workout not always being at the same time. Sometimes the only time I have to lift is first thing in the morning and sometimes I have to wait until the kids are in bed, the fasting until after I lift isn't really jiving with that.

    Food wise I am all over the map. In the past I have responded real well to CKD type diets, but for this I am trying more of a paleo style diet because its nice to have some fruit ever once in a while. Then there are the days when I totally blow it and eat everything that moves
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