Not follow strict diet - anyone do this?

[Rosie Chee]

Rosie what sport did you play? I never knew that either.

I was on the New Zealand track and road cycling team.

hey rosie, just out of curiosity, how much protein do you take PWO after one of your workouts?

I use the equivalent of 42 grams of protein in my post-training shake - however, how much protein I use post-training is irrelevant to you, and as long as you get ~30 grams of protein post-training with your ~50 grams of carbohydrates (although some advise against having them post-training - you have to do what works for you).

~Rosie~

[MakaveliThaDon]

I was on the New Zealand track and road cycling team.




I use the equivalent of 42 grams of protein in my post-training shake - however, how much protein I use post-training is irrelevant to you, and as long as you get ~30 grams of protein post-training with your ~50 grams of carbohydrates (although some advise against having them post-training - you have to do what works for you).

~Rosie~

Thanks rosie. I'm trying to slowly increase my daily protein intake throughout the day ATM, and am trying to equally distribute it throughout all my meals. Normally most of my meals contain just over 50g of protein, however like I said, my body is still telling me I need more. Normally my PWO shake is 48g of whey, and I was toying with the idea of using PWO meal to add another 10-12g of whey to it. I don't know if that's overkill or not, but I just figured if I'm gonna pick another meal to increase some protein with, it might as well be my PWO meal...

My training sessions are generally bordering on 2 plus hours, so maybe I could squeeze in a few more PWO grams and be able to put it to good use.

[Rosie Chee]

Thanks rosie. I'm trying to slowly increase my daily protein intake throughout the day ATM, and am trying to equally distribute it throughout all my meals. Normally most of my meals contain just over 50g of protein, however like I said, my body is still telling me I need more. Normally my PWO shake is 48g of whey, and I was toying with the idea of using PWO meal to add another 10-12g of whey to it. I don't know if that's overkill or not, but I just figured if I'm gonna pick another meal to increase some protein with, it might as well be my PWO meal...

My training sessions are generally bordering on 2 plus hours, so maybe I could squeeze in a few more PWO grams and be able to put it to good use.

No worries

How can your body be telling you that you need more protein? As long as you get in your required amount, your body should be fine.

In your postworkout MEAL you SHOULD have protein, period. Having more protein is not overkill, but more is not always better.

You don't need to train for that long, unless you're an athlete or are training for something specific that requires extensive training. I actually feel better having recently cut my training times in half, from 2-4 hours to 1-1.5 hours - my progress is not any less than what it was, and if anything, results better, and far more convenient. Train SMART.

~Rosie~

[MakaveliThaDon]

No worries

How can your body be telling you that you need more protein? As long as you get in your required amount, your body should be fine.

In your postworkout MEAL you SHOULD have protein, period. Having more protein is not overkill, but more is not always better.

You don't need to train for that long, unless you're an athlete or are training for something specific that requires extensive training. I actually feel better having recently cut my training times in half, from 2-4 hours to 1-1.5 hours - my progress is not any less than what it was, and if anything, results better, and far more convenient. Train SMART.

~Rosie~

Well, more specifically it's telling me I need more calories...period, for my activity level. And I enjoy what I do both in and out of the gym too much to cut down my activity level. So along with being on a cut ATM, I just figure the safest way to get in some extra calories is obviously protein or fat.

I have to second the workout time though. It might not sound like it, but I actually cut down on my training as wel. Maybe not on the duration of my workouts, but in the form of taking off an entire extra day of the week from weight training. And I too have only seen positive effects from this, not negative.

[AntonG42O]

I feel like the diet thing is directly related to the results you want. i dont see a point in having bodyfat, it slows down my BJJ and doesnt look good lol this is why my diet is 99% dialed in, except for an occasional chinese food once a month or something like that. ive noticed throughout the years that the stricter I ate the better I looked and performed, so thats my motivation right there. if you are okay with having a two pack and having average energy levels, why not mix it up and eat some pizza/bagels etc. you just might not ever find out how freakishly you could have looked if you ate 100% clean.

[MakaveliThaDon]

I feel like the diet thing is directly related to the results you want. i dont see a point in having bodyfat, it slows down my BJJ and doesnt look good lol this is why my diet is 99% dialed in, except for an occasional chinese food once a month or something like that. ive noticed throughout the years that the stricter I ate the better I looked and performed, so thats my motivation right there. if you are okay with having a two pack and having average energy levels, why not mix it up and eat some pizza/bagels etc. you just might not ever find out how freakishly you could have looked if you ate 100% clean.

I feel u brotha. I love the "chase for perfection" of it. And the fact that you will never attain it, it keeps you reaching and reaching every single day towards something. Because let's face it, if you ever finally attained it, there'd be no pont in going to the gym anymore.

And I get pretty anal about things in my chase for it. Like if 42g of protein on a certain meal is workikng for me. I'll try and get the measurements exactly right and do literally 40g or 45g on that meal for a week straight and see whether those 2-3g either way are able to give me a millimeter or centimeter or any extra progress towards whatever my goal (cutting, or bulking) at the time may be.

Some people say it's no way to live life, and that's definitely true for a lot of people. But personally I wouldn't have it any other way, I absolutely love how cerebral dieting can be when you really focus on the minute details of everything. It's enjoyable to me, I love it.

[CaponeCEO]

I feel like the diet thing is directly related to the results you want. i dont see a point in having bodyfat, it slows down my BJJ and doesnt look good lol this is why my diet is 99% dialed in, except for an occasional chinese food once a month or something like that. ive noticed throughout the years that the stricter I ate the better I looked and performed, so thats my motivation right there. if you are okay with having a two pack and having average energy levels, why not mix it up and eat some pizza/bagels etc. you just might not ever find out how freakishly you could have looked if you ate 100% clean.

Make no mistake. By not following a strict diet it does not mean that I eat anything less then quality foods. I've always stated this, but to me there is no such thing as "clean" bulking or "dirty" bulking. These two terms have been created by some unknown person. Bulking always meant that you eat quality foods, just as much as humanly possible. You forcefeed yourself with these quality foods. "Clean" bulking is just trying to add a few extra pounds and not gain any fat, this is what 90% percent of American males want to do. This does not constitute bulking or "getting big" in my opinion. "Dirty" bulking is just a lazy and uneducated mans excuse for stuffing their face with with anything they feel like eating, all in the name of "bulking". This isn't bulking but binge eating, whether you work out or not.

[ZamaMan]

Science has proven the use of carbs pwo. Your pwo meal should never not include carbs and loads of calories. Leangains has proven time and time again scientifically and anecdotal evidance as well that your pwo meal should be as huge as you can plan for in your daily caloric requirement. I would never hesitate to reccomend even 50% of someones macros in that single meal due to how amazing your bodys nutrient partioning is for those several hours after. I personally try n cram down 1200-1500 cals pwo. The evidance is there if you care to read Martin berkhams work.

IMO it's much easier to maintain and plan for proper macros when having less meals, so just plan 3 huge solid meals in and stick to those macros and youwill be well on your way to making it an easy lifestyle that you can maintain.

[Scottish08]

You bros and girls on here are fantastic....you have made this into a really good thread...excellent advice and debate within the thread...and very helpful to see different insights....and dare i say....nice to see people who are not completely anal about their food.

[diablosho]

You bros and girls on here are fantastic....you have made this into a really good thread...excellent advice and debate within the thread...and very helpful to see different insights....and dare i say....nice to see people who are not completely anal about their food.

Something about mixing the words "anal" and "food" doesn't really "sit right" with me!
--Brian

[boricuarage]

I do not follow strict BB diets anymore. The whole eating clean thing drives me crazy cause i see how stupid it is. BBs want to gain muscle and get six packs so badly, that they feel if they sacrafice stuff like flavor they gotta be making more progress. Read through my latest log about monsterdrol xt. Alot of vets on here were bashing me and my diet, but you can see how I eat and yet am leaner than most year round. I get most of my carbs from huge bowls of cereal, bagels, fruits, bread, sometimes oats, rice and potatoes.
Protein shakes make up prob 150 grams of my protein, as I only like 2 solid food meals a day.
I'm not afraid to eat out and get some high fat meals in, i just add a shake before it to make macros look better, and next meal eat low fat to stay right on track to hit my macro numbers. Like i said all of this is with 2 huge solid good meals and several shakes with bagles and fruits or cereal. My post workout meal i usually save about 200-250 carbs for so i do 3-4 big pancakes with syrup and some butter and a huge shake. Give me about 80-100 g of protein and 225 carbs. I also do 3-4 servings cereal pwo sometimes.

For scientific articles on nutrition and not broscience you will get here visit Martin berkhams site leangains, Lyle mcdonalds site bodyrecomposition, jcds site jcdfitness

and you will learn all you ever need to know in terms of training diet and how to actually incorperate your lifestyle in it.

reps bro...

I started to eat whatever the he'll I want a few weeks ago as long as I don't hfve any carbs during the evening I'm kool with it....
I make my own shakes and as long I get at least 200)g protein..
I'm happy...

[boricuarage]

You bros and girls on here are fantastic....you have made this into a really good thread...excellent advice and debate within the thread...and very helpful to see different insights....and dare i say....nice to see people who are not completely anal about their food.

dude that's nasty...

[sluggy]

Rosie, what do you use to measure your bf%?

[Rosie Chee]

Rosie, what do you use to measure your bf%?

I have an 8-skinfold test done by a qualified ISAK anthropometrist.

~Rosie~

[AntonG42O]

Science has proven the use of carbs pwo. Your pwo meal should never not include carbs and loads of calories. Leangains has proven time and time again scientifically and anecdotal evidance as well that your pwo meal should be as huge as you can plan for in your daily caloric requirement. I would never hesitate to reccomend even 50% of someones macros in that single meal due to how amazing your bodys nutrient partioning is for those several hours after. I personally try n cram down 1200-1500 cals pwo. The evidance is there if you care to read Martin berkhams work.

IMO it's much easier to maintain and plan for proper macros when having less meals, so just plan 3 huge solid meals in and stick to those macros and youwill be well on your way to making it an easy lifestyle that you can maintain.

ok but there is absolutely no science proving 200+ grams of carbs post workout being useful. sure 50 or so will successfully replenish glycogen but even science (through studies) found that we dont deplete as much glycogen as some people think. carbs post workout will iniate an insulin response (desired) with a spike in blood sugar (undesired/fat gain). fat and protein rich foods like eggs/steak/fish will actually iniate the same insulin response without any spike in blood sugar. use the anabolic postworkout window, dont abuse it.

[MakaveliThaDon]

ok but there is absolutely no science proving 200+ grams of carbs post workout being useful. sure 50 or so will successfully replenish glycogen but even science (through studies) found that we dont deplete as much glycogen as some people think. carbs post workout will iniate an insulin response (desired) with a spike in blood sugar (undesired/fat gain). fat and protein rich foods like eggs/steak/fish will actually iniate the same insulin response without any spike in blood sugar. use the anabolic postworkout window, dont abuse it.

I'm going to definitely have to agree with this. Over the years I've experimented with really low carbs PWO, as in 20-30g, mid level carbs, 50g, and really high level carbs as in 100 plus. Also experimented with all different fast/slow absorbing forms of each dosage. And even with a ridiculously strict diet the rest of the day, I still accumulated fat gain at 100g plus of carbs in PWO window. When I dropped it back down to around the 40-50 range, I felt bar none just as recovered, just as strong in the gym, and also lost quite a bit of bodyfat in the process. I think 200g PWO is really quite unnecessary to accomplish what you need to accomplish in that PWO window.

Remember, even though your body IS in that PWO window where carbs are going to be shuttled towards your muscles instead of stored as bodyfat, once you have taken enough to successfully replenish your muscles, the rest still DOES have a tendency to be stored as bodyfat. The anabolic window isn't like a license to go all out by any means. Like I said, this is just my opinion and what works for me though.

[AntonG42O]

thank you, it wont let me rep you again. these guys always wonder why they gotta bulk and cut, bulk and cut, where is that fat coming from?? all the big dudes at the gym slam thousands of grams of carbs!!

[hungryH]

If you've ever followed any of my logs you'll know that I am one of the rare people whose nutrition is not as important as training and I train my fcuking arse off to "make up" for any "lack" in nutrition! Yes, I do stay under 10% bodyfat when I am training at over 4,000 calories a day - it's not impossible. Most of it is from carbohydrates, at least 60% of my nutrition is.

~Rosie~

I call total bull**** on this, you are a 108lb female with 8-10% bodyfat, which is competition-conditioning.

Unless you do hours and hours of cardio or something

[MakaveliThaDon]

lol, I'm not gonna pretend I know any more about her than you do, but with a rep power of 39, I'm not sure I would come at one of the most respected members on this board in quite that fashion brotha...

[ZamaMan]

I'm going to definitely have to agree with this. Over the years I've experimented with really low carbs PWO, as in 20-30g, mid level carbs, 50g, and really high level carbs as in 100 plus. Also experimented with all different fast/slow absorbing forms of each dosage. And even with a ridiculously strict diet the rest of the day, I still accumulated fat gain at 100g plus of carbs in PWO window. When I dropped it back down to around the 40-50 range, I felt bar none just as recovered, just as strong in the gym, and also lost quite a bit of bodyfat in the process. I think 200g PWO is really quite unnecessary to accomplish what you need to accomplish in that PWO window.

Remember, even though your body IS in that PWO window where carbs are going to be shuttled towards your muscles instead of stored as bodyfat, once you have taken enough to successfully replenish your muscles, the rest still DOES have a tendency to be stored as bodyfat. The anabolic window isn't like a license to go all out by any means. Like I said, this is just my opinion and what works for me though.

so you have a problemish hitting your macros. When you had the larger pwo meal you gained weight and loss fat on the smaller one. Clearly you were eating more calories in one situation and less in another. It's not like you had the same total daily caloric intake was the same otherwise your results would have been different.

The whole you can only process so much carbs in one meal and the rest goes to fat is broscience. When I diet for fat loss I skip breakfast, eat a big lunch usually tuna sandwitches and a big bowl of cereal, pre workout shake, and have a big dinner. So since all my carbs come in two meals I must affect my fat loss... Oh wait it doesn't.

Besides carbs don't just restore glycogen, they have lots of process one major one pwo is to help stop muscle tissue breakdown. I have seen countless ridiculous transformations from Martin on leansgains website where people do amazing recomps in timeframes where we would all almost wanna doubt is possible, and his guys eat 50% total calories in there pwo meal. Why aren't they getting fat then?