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    F'ING FRUSTRATED!!!!!!!!!!


    Breif BIO.... Just turned 30, 290, 6'3" BF% approx 20-23%. Just lost 30lbs since may. goal weight is 250-260 by my wedding in OCT 2011 (def do-able). Here is my rant.....I CANT DROP ANYMORE WEIGHT. Im killing it in the gym 6 days a week, I have a great workout partner, im tracking my foods yet i cant budge on the scale for a good month or so...WTF??? someone please help.....here is a sample of a typical days nutrition.
    M1- 1 cup liquid egg whites
    two scoops gaspari intrapro
    2 tbspn natty pb
    banana
    1/2 cup oatmeal.....all blended into a shake with ice
    M2- 8oz chicken coated with ground oatmeal (like breadcrumbs but better) baked
    cup veggies
    dannon greek
    M3- same as M2
    M4- same as M2
    M5- 1/2 cup liquid egg whites
    ! scoop gaspari intra pro (this is right before bed)
    1 spponfull of natty pb

    Im usually in the area of around 2700 cals, 80-90g fats, 170-190 carbs and 275-300 proteins. i try to keep my sodium below 1500-1700 due to threat of hypertension in the family

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    Drop the PB. 2700 is too many calories imo. If your true goal is cutting, then commit just to cutting and use the gym just to maintain strength. If you commit 100% to cutting, then 250 should be no big deal in a year. And if you reach it before that, just go into recomp and bring things like PB back in. Just dropping PB should remove around 300 cal/day.

    Also, I've heard that people who hold more weight around the middle react better to low carb (I don't), so maybe try some carb cycling if you hold more weight in your gut. Hell, try it either way, I've heard that it worked very well for a lot of people.
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    How are your pants fitting? Sometimes, you have to just screw the scale and go by the mirror/pants.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TateFTW View Post
    Drop the PB. 2700 is too many calories imo. If your true goal is cutting, then commit just to cutting and use the gym just to maintain strength. If you commit 100% to cutting, then 250 should be no big deal in a year. And if you reach it before that, just go into recomp and bring things like PB back in. Just dropping PB should remove around 300 cal/day.

    Also, I've heard that people who hold more weight around the middle react better to low carb (I don't), so maybe try some carb cycling if you hold more weight in your gut. Hell, try it either way, I've heard that it worked very well for a lot of people.
    2700 is too many? I think it's way too little.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    2700 is too many? I think it's way too little.
    For his height/weight/age? No way, 2700 is too much.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sluggy View Post
    For his height/weight/age? No way, 2700 is too much.
    Holy crap... two much.... at 290?

    A quick calculation shows his BMR at almost 4K using the Mifflin-St Jeor equation.

    Higgs... have you introduced any cheat meals yet?
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Holy crap... two much.... at 290?

    A quick calculation shows his BMR at almost 4K using the Mifflin-St Jeor equation.

    Higgs... have you introduced any cheat meals yet?
    Yeah, but he's 90% fat.. He's trying to lose it, not maintain it.
    He could literally eat nothing for 3-6 months and be fine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sluggy View Post
    Yeah, but he's 90% fat.. He's trying to lose it, not maintain it.
    He could literally eat nothing for 3-6 months and be fine.
    He has over 220 lbs of LBM. There's no way in hell 2700 kcals is too much.
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    That's why I only suggested dropping the PB. I don't think it's way too much, but he needs to see what will work for him. I think the first step should be a small drop in calories, just to see how his body reacts. With his extreme size it's even harder then normal to suggest numbers that will work. At this point, the only thing we're certain of is that his current routine isn't working. The first step is to make a change and see how it affects his results.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    He has over 220 lbs of LBM. There's no way in hell 2700 kcals is too much.
    Dude, why do you keep repeating yourself. How are you calculating this?
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    Quote Originally Posted by sluggy View Post
    Dude, why do you keep repeating yourself. How are you calculating this?
    290x.77=223.3

    If you can't figure out where I got that, you shouldn't be giving out advice.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    290x.77=223.3

    If you can't figure out where I got that, you shouldn't be giving out advice.
    You're brilliant. That's obvious.. I meant in regards to your mantra of 2700 cals being too much..
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    Quote Originally Posted by sluggy View Post
    Yeah, but he's 90% fat.. He's trying to lose it, not maintain it.
    He could literally eat nothing for 3-6 months and be fine.
    I see his post say 20-23% body fat... nothing about 90%

    Also, the BMR equation I used is not calculated on LBM, but overall weight. Dropping cals to low will in fact induce a cascade of different hormones that will thusly place the body in a starvation mode that fights to keep every last pound.

    So your science on this matter is not sound. You do not drop 2300 from BMR to loose weight effectively.
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    It could very well be that his deficit it too large, resulting in his metabolism slowing and bringing his weight loss to a halt. If dropping a few more cals doesn't get things going, then upping cals to the 3-3500 range could be the thing to get the metabolism going again. Like I said, finding the sweet spot could be tough with such large numbers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    I see his post say 20-23% body fat... nothing about 90%

    Also, the BMR equation I used is not calculated on LBM, but overall weight. Dropping cals to low will in fact induce a cascade of different hormones that will thusly place the body in a starvation mode that fights to keep every last pound.

    So your science on this matter is not sound. You do not drop 2300 from BMR to loose weight effectively.
    Yes, it's an exaggeration.. Quite the grasp of English you've got there.

    You're going by a formula that doesn't take into consideration LBM, and MY science in not sound? How about you come back with a modern equation.



    Quote Originally Posted by TateFTW View Post
    It could very well be that his deficit it too large, resulting in his metabolism slowing and bringing his weight loss to a halt. If dropping a few more cals doesn't get things going, then upping cals to the 3-3500 range could be the thing to get the metabolism going again. Like I said, finding the sweet spot could be tough with such large numbers.
    He's not loosing weight because his deficit is too large? Where'd you come up with this?
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    Quote Originally Posted by sluggy View Post
    Yes, it's an exaggeration.. Quite the grasp of English you've got there.

    You're going by a formula that doesn't take into consideration LBM, and MY science in not sound? How about you come back with a modern equation.





    He's not loosing weight because his deficit is too large? Where'd you come up with this?
    Look here, obviously you do not know that to keep fat from generating aromatase, thusly converting test into estrogen, thusly causing fat gain that nutrients must be provided. And that is just ONE factor in the hormonal cascade... dont even want to get into the cortisol factor.

    Mifflin-St Jeor is the highest regarded equation for caloric expenditure.

    But you keep going on believing you know anything, it is quite a laugh.

    /School
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    Look here, obviously you do not know that to keep fat from generating aromatase, thusly converting test into estrogen, thusly causing fat gain that nutrients must be provided. And that is just ONE factor in the hormonal cascade... dont even want to get into the cortisol factor.

    Mifflin-St Jeor is the highest regarded equation for caloric expenditure.

    But you keep going on believing you know anything, it is quite a laugh.

    /School
    School? Thank god I didn't attend the 'school' that taught you. Fat loss is quite simple, you need to take a breath and then read a book published in the 21st century.
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    Quote Originally Posted by sluggy View Post
    School? Thank god I didn't attend the 'school' that taught you. Fat loss is quite simple, you need to take a breath and then read a book published in the 21st century.
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    I think this thread is a perfect demonstration that you should seek out professional help. You cannot (always) trust advice online because;
    1) they are giving you advice blind
    2) most of whom are not qualified to do so

    Best of luck
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdcc View Post
    I think this thread is a perfect demonstration that you should seek out professional help. You cannot (always) trust advice online because;
    1) they are giving you advice blind
    2) most of whom are not qualified to do so

    Best of luck
    I do like this. Especially since a lot of the "Professionals" come here for information.

    Hell, Rodja is about as professional as they come, Degree and certified.
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    "most of whom are not qualified..."
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    Quote Originally Posted by bdcc View Post
    "most of whom are not qualified..."
    Good point!

    But Legendary is in my signature!

    I keed, i keed.
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    Precision Nutrition would recommend between 3480 and 4060 calories a day to cut weight for someone 290lbs with a macro breakdown of 35% protein 25% carbs and 40% fat assuming he is an endomorph. This would be roughly 3770 calories as a midway starting point, 330 Protein, 235 carbs and 168 fat. This would be a special situation client and because people are so obsessed with macros and calories on this board I provided them. I personally don't breakdown calories and macros for the average fat loss client like the OP.

    Is it possible you have a bigger cheat meal each week or several times a week that you think is doing less damage than it really is?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    2700 is too many? I think it's way too little.
    This is what confuses me....I have no problem eating just 2000 cals and I have no problem eating 4000 cals. some say im eating too much some say im eating too little....FML
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    Quote Originally Posted by sluggy View Post
    Yeah, but he's 90% fat.. He's trying to lose it, not maintain it.
    He could literally eat nothing for 3-6 months and be fine.

    woah..who said im 90% fat??? Is that even possible??
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    Quote Originally Posted by BIGHIGGS View Post
    woah..who said im 90% fat??? Is that even possible??
    No. I think you should up your calories to the range that I referenced at least on days that you work out. On your off days, you can get away with slightly lower calories. Also, any reason you aren't eating any red meat or fish?
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    If you have a calorie deficit you MUST lose weight. That is the definition of a deficit.

    Comments that his metabolism has stalled and his body is holding onto fat is the reason he is no longer losing weight is ludicrous. If you follow this line of logic, then someone could stop eating altogether and still not lose weight. Sorry doesn't work that way.

    Yes if your deficit is too large then you will likely feel really tired and you will lose more muscle than fat but as long as there is a deficit your body has to use up stores to make up the energy expenditure.

    Most likely an error in calorie intake/energy expenditure calculations.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrox View Post
    If you have a calorie deficit you MUST lose weight. That is the definition of a deficit.

    Comments that his metabolism has stalled and his body is holding onto fat is the reason he is no longer losing weight is ludicrous. If you follow this line of logic, then someone could stop eating altogether and still not lose weight. Sorry doesn't work that way.

    Yes if your deficit is too large then you will likely feel really tired and you will lose more muscle than fat but as long as there is a deficit your body has to use up stores to make up the energy expenditure.

    Most likely an error in calorie intake/energy expenditure calculations.
    A deficit is a number. Nothing more. Saying that increasing that number results in more fat loss and decreasing it results in less is ignoring a number of factors involved in how our bodies work.

    It's true that if someone stopped eating altogether then they would lose weight, but the metabolism can shift WAY down when someone consistently under eats. In retrospect I was incorrect that 2700 is too many. I didn't really take the time to think about the numbers involved, and I apologize to the OP for the poorly thought out advice.

    On the website I use to keep track of my diet I've seen dozens of women who fall prey to under eating. I've seen them averaging as little as 7 or 800 calories a day and still manage to not lose a lb. And these are women who could definitely stand to lose some lbs! The thing is that every now and then they'll reward themselves and cheat a little, and their slow ass metabolism will store everything. Once they are finally convinced to start sticking to the correct deficit (500/day for 1 lb lost/week), they almost always start losing again in a couple weeks.
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    Good last post. I had a new client come to me who had lost 22kg in 3 months but had come to a complete stop. When I asked him what he ate he told me he only ate one meal per day.

    Calories are not the only factor in the equation, it surprises me that people on here think that when there are examples of testimonials where people throw in a nutrient repartitioner and lost fat without dietary change. One guy even said that when he uses a sunbed his pecs lean up.

    Would two twins lose fat at different rates if one had low test and one had high test? Even if all other factors were the same. What if one was stressed and had high cortisol levels?

    Hormones play a huge factor irrespective of calorie total. Only looking at calories misses vital factors which could make all the difference.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hikeon3 View Post
    How are your pants fitting? Sometimes, you have to just screw the scale and go by the mirror/pants.
    They fit the same and I look the same.....Stalled out my friend!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by wearedbleedblue View Post

    Is it possible you have a bigger cheat meal each week or several times a week that you think is doing less damage than it really is?
    This is quite possible as my diet is not dialed in 100% but i dont binge by any means.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wearedbleedblue View Post
    Also, any reason you aren't eating any red meat or fish?
    I eat the occasional red meat and fish but im most consistent with chicken thats why i used the example. I am borderline right now for hypertension and high cholesterol (runs in the family) so thats the main reason I limit the red meats.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BIGHIGGS View Post
    I eat the occasional red meat and fish but im most consistent with chicken thats why i used the example. I am borderline right now for hypertension and high cholesterol (runs in the family) so thats the main reason I limit the red meats.
    I can guarantee you that red meat will not alter this. In your situation, it's the extra mass that is worrisome and not the raw numbers. BTW, what is your cholesterol and breakdown?

    Several things you should start:
    1. Change up the diet...a lot. You have very few nutrients in your diet and, even more alarming, a severe lack of produce. The protein is decent, but you either need more fat or more carbs
    2. For accuracy purposes, start taking measurements. The only parameter is to take it at the same time everytime.
    3. Fatty fish. It'll help in a myriad of ways.
    4. Take a week or so and increase your caloric intake by 500-700 per day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrox View Post
    If you have a calorie deficit you MUST lose weight. That is the definition of a deficit.

    Comments that his metabolism has stalled and his body is holding onto fat is the reason he is no longer losing weight is ludicrous. If you follow this line of logic, then someone could stop eating altogether and still not lose weight. Sorry doesn't work that way.

    Yes if your deficit is too large then you will likely feel really tired and you will lose more muscle than fat but as long as there is a deficit your body has to use up stores to make up the energy expenditure.

    Most likely an error in calorie intake/energy expenditure calculations.
    A deficit is only a deficit if your body hasn't slowed the metabolic process down low enough to match the caloric consumption. Also, you logic is flawed on eating nothing, considering that eating nothing and eating low calories are two different animals.... again, I reference TSH, Estrogen, Cortisol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    I can guarantee you that red meat will not alter this. In your situation, it's the extra mass that is worrisome and not the raw numbers. BTW, what is your cholesterol and breakdown?

    Several things you should start:
    1. Change up the diet...a lot. You have very few nutrients in your diet and, even more alarming, a severe lack of produce. The protein is decent, but you either need more fat or more carbs
    2. For accuracy purposes, start taking measurements. The only parameter is to take it at the same time everytime.
    3. Fatty fish. It'll help in a myriad of ways.
    4. Take a week or so and increase your caloric intake by 500-700 per day.
    He said he's eating "cup of veggies" in 3 of his meals. If he's truly eating 3 cups of veggies he is alright on the veggies but could be much better. Also, if greek yogurt is eaten 3x a day with 3 meals then I'd say that is one thing that could be immediately changed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wearedbleedblue View Post
    He said he's eating "cup of veggies" in 3 of his meals. If he's truly eating 3 cups of veggies he is alright on the veggies but could be much better. Also, if greek yogurt is eaten 3x a day with 3 meals then I'd say that is one thing that could be immediately changed.
    When he's cutting back that much, I'd say at least 7 servings (2 fruit, 5 vegetable) should be his aim. I'm not a fan of anything dairy, but greek yogurt is at least a good source of probiotics, protein, and minerals.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BIGHIGGS View Post
    They fit the same and I look the same.....Stalled out my friend!!
    How do you feel in the gym, how's the strength levels?

    If you're feeling gassed and losing strength then your metabolism has shifted to muscle burning. Refeed for awhile and then drop the cals back down.

    If your energy levels are fine and strength is stable or even increasing then you are eating too much (don't get fixated on the numbers - what's happening is the reality).
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    Quote Originally Posted by DAdams91982 View Post
    A deficit is only a deficit if your body hasn't slowed the metabolic process down low enough to match the caloric consumption. Also, you logic is flawed on eating nothing, considering that eating nothing and eating low calories are two different animals.... again, I reference TSH, Estrogen, Cortisol.
    No, you're fixated on the numbers again. If you have a deficit (in reality, not by calculations) then you have more energy expended than is consumed and the body must tap into stores to source the difference.

    Yes, I know that the body can downregulate metabolism and shift to 'starvation mode' where it starts burning up a lot of muscle. Yes this can result in stalled weight loss if, and only if, the downregulation is comparable to original deficit. The body can only downregulate so much, and if the original deficit is large, weight loss will continue but it will be at the expense of feeling like sh!t and losing a lot of muscle. The posts so far have not mentioned this and hence why I have called it faulty because it does not address the whole picture.

    I don't care about TSH, E, etc. Those are just the mechanics of how the body accomplishes what I just talked about. Energy balance is the 'cause' and hormone reactions are just the 'effect.' For the purposes of the OP we are concerned about the former.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BIGHIGGS View Post
    This is quite possible as my diet is not dialed in 100% but i dont binge by any means.
    I think you have your answer...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitrox View Post
    No, you're fixated on the numbers again. If you have a deficit (in reality, not by calculations) then you have more energy expended than is consumed and the body must tap into stores to source the difference.

    Yes, I know that the body can downregulate metabolism and shift to 'starvation mode' where it starts burning up a lot of muscle. Yes this can result in stalled weight loss if, and only if, the downregulation is comparable to original deficit. The body can only downregulate so much, and if the original deficit is large, weight loss will continue but it will be at the expense of feeling like sh!t and losing a lot of muscle. The posts so far have not mentioned this and hence why I have called it faulty because it does not address the whole picture.

    I don't care about TSH, E, etc. Those are just the mechanics of how the body accomplishes what I just talked about. Energy balance is the 'cause' and hormone reactions are just the 'effect.' For the purposes of the OP we are concerned about the former.
    Eh, believe what you want. You simplify it way to much when in all reality it is not simply the hormones being the effect... it is quite the cascade. You kind of side stepped the science of anything the minute you said you don't care about the main metabolic hormone.
    The Historic PES Legend
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