Carb Backloading

[pantherdude63]

Carb Back-loading

Good article on carb backloading. Basically the principle is to take in all of your carbs post workout to increase fat burning, etc.

I'm a bigger guy, 205 probably 13-14% bf. I condition really early in the morning, like 5 or 6 a.m. for 1-2 hours Sprints, long distance, push ups, sit ups (ROTC) Im currently doing a DC workout but am planning on going to a full body 3 day split next week. My question is if I do all this cardio fasted, such as the then lift 30 minutes afterwards...it seems like that would affect my workout and the cardio would burn muscle. I currently eat half of a 2:1 protein bar pre then the rest of the bar and a homemade shake post (1070 cals, 80 carbs, 36 fat, 100 pro and its also my breakfast) I'm looking to lean out but at the same time I dont want to lose hard earned muscle. Whats the best way to go for breakfast? Would protein and bcaa's make up for no carbs or is that just for weight training?

 

[SupermanStrng]

all carbs PWO to increase fat burnung?

yeaaaaaaaaaaaa NO. if anything Breakfast/pre workout, and POST POST workout.

Insulin BLUNTS lipolysis. Known fact.

 

[russy_russ]

Ingestion of carbohydrates can induce lipid metabolism via the conversion to metabolic intermediates of the TCA cycle (which is where acetyl-CoA from beta oxidation comes into play) which aids in the metabolism of lipids which continue to oxidative phosphorylation (ETS). However, as aforementioned ingestion of large amounts of carbohydrates or those numbering only a small amount of polysaccharide chains will elicit a large insulin response. This insulin response slows lipolysis by directly inhibiting lipase activity. Take away message is: don't over consume carbohydrates during one meal nor take in many simple sugars, but carbohydrates play an important role in lipid metabolism.

 

[SupermanStrng]

Fat burns in an AMINO ACID flame...

heres why...

http ://ww w.ncbi.nlm. nih. gov/pm c/articles /PMC2129159/

cha chingggggggggggggggggggg

remove spaces bc im not allowed to

 

[SupermanStrng]

Heres the copy pasted..

It has been claimed that carbohydrates serve as a primer for fat catabolism ("fats burn in a carbohydrate flame"). However, as pointed out by Robergs and Roberts [22], this is an incorrect contention. In skeletal muscle, fat certainly does not burn in a carbohydrate flame, as skeletal muscle does not have sufficient quantities of the enzymes to convert glycolytic intermediates into molecules that can be transported into the mitochondria to supplement citric acid cycle intermediates. Further, the production of acetoacyl CoA, a substrate of ketone body formation, can occur only in the liver and thus does not apply to skeletal muscle metabolism. Human skeletal muscle can oxidize at least seven amino acids: leucine, isoleucine, valine, glutamate, asparagine, aspartate and alanine. Of these amino acids, however, oxidation of only the branched chain amino acids (leucine, isoleucine and valine) appears to be increased during catabolic states such as exercise.When muscle glycogen and blood glucose concentrations are low, the incorporation of the carbon skeletons from amino acids into the citric acid cycle is important for maintaining the concentrations of the intermediates, and therefore a high rate of mitochondrial respiration. Thus, both muscle fat and carbohydrate burn in an amino acid flame. As discussed by Robergs and Roberts [22], amino acid catabolism during exercise is important for three reasons: 1) for free energy during exercise to fuel muscle contraction; 2) to increase concentrations of citric acid cycle intermediates and therefore support carbohydrate and lipid catabolism; and 3) to serve as gluconeogenic precursors. It has also been claimed that carbohydrate provides the only macronutrient substrate whose stored energy generates ATP non-aerobically. This is not the case, however, since several studies have shown that amino acid catabolism also provides a source of anaerobic energy production [23], Aspartate, for example, can be fermented to succinate or propionate [24]. Interestingly, Ivy et al. [25] and Saunders et al. [26], reported that the addition of protein to a carbohydrate supplement enhanced endurance performance above that which occurred with carbohydrate alone.

 

[pantherdude63]

So you guys disagree with the article? And its not taken in with one super large meal, when I said pwo I mean after the workout, such as the rest of the day. And can anyone help me with my questions?

 

[russy_russ]

There are plenty of research studies using carbon tracing to investigate the metabolic pathways glucose encounters. I agree with the article about protein as well, but carbohydrates are not neglected in lipid metabolism. Check references, peer review, and the rigor of the journal in which articles are published.

 

[russy_russ]

Glucose and glycogen are metabolized within a muscle cell immediately. Protein must undergo a series of degradation and deamination reactions before it can be taken up my a muscle cell for metabolic purposes.

 

[russy_russ]

Also, if you closely read that article it states 'when muscle glycogen and blood glucose are low from exercise, carbon backbones for TCA intermediates are then taken from BCAAs'.

 

[ZiR RED]

Man, this thread is turning into biochemistry 101 hacked into pieces.

First, yes, insulin signals to the body that energy is available and reduces lypolysis.

Insulin also promotes the entry to gucose into muscle and fat cells via glut-4 translocation. Glut-4 is a protein that transports glucose across a cell membrane into the cell. The greater the glut-4 proteins on the cell membrane, the greater the glucose uptake. Type-II diabetics are often insulin resistant. That means even though the pancreas releases insulin in response to elevated blood sugar, the cells do not translocate glut-4 when insulin binds, and thus blood glucose is not taken up into cells, blood sugar remains elevated, and a host of other probelms ensue.

Most of us here, however, are not diabetics (I would assume). We are focused on enhancing performance and body composition.

From a body composition standpoint, nutrient partitioning may be one of the most important factors. Nutrient partitioning means storing glucose in muscle/liver as glycogen for later use as energy during high intensity activity, and oxidizing fats for fuel during recovery.

Following training, glycogen stores have been partially depleted, and glut-4 is translocated to the surface due to muscular contraction. This primes the pump for glucose uptake into muscle cells. Fuel sinks are low, and following an insulin response, glycogne synthase is activated. IE. the ability to take glucose into the muscle cell is elevated. Basically, you are saying to fat cells -you get none!
Furthermore, insulin and leucine (one of the bcaa's) is needed to initiate protein synthesis (the recovery and muscle building process). Ironically, leucine consumption results in the release of insulin, thereby furhter improving glucose uptake.

Ideally, for optimal recovery and nutrient partitioning, CHO consumption should be split up something like this:
20% breakfast
30% preworkout
30% post workout
20% split over the remaining 2-3 feedings.

Br

 

[russy_russ]

Good explanation. Simple exercise biochemistry, but not quite the direction I was going. Hopefully the OP got some useful information.

 

[Nitrox]

Dunno, this just seems like more hot air for some hack to write about in order to get a paycheck. Does the body not need a steady flow of energy around the clock just to drive basic metabolism? Even in the PWO window the body has to run on something and why would it not use fat? Also, these discussions always seem to forgo the impact on quantities. Maybe some of the peeps knowledgeable on the micro-bi of metabolism can clear this up.

 

[SupermanStrng]

Also, if you closely read that article it states 'when muscle glycogen and blood glucose are low from exercise, carbon backbones for TCA intermediates are then taken from BCAAs'.

which is why supplementing with BCAAs and lysine is super important.

 

[INSAYNE RAGE]

Ok after hearing some of the intelligent posts here I dont want to sound like a twit making stuff up here so ill just say Good Luck. lol
very interesting posts though

 

[pantherdude63]

I hope this isnt against the rules, if it is, sorry but its for a good cause

http://dangerouslyhardcore.com/?p=370

There are 2 more follow up articles. And for you guys that are throwing out this crazy genius sh*t, please translate to lamens terms lol Also is anyone viewing this familiar with the paleo diet? I'm just in an odd traininig predicament and would like the guidance of a more experienced member to help me out. So if one of you diet guru's could throw some insight my way by answering some questions I'd appreciate it.

 

[Nitrox]

I hope this isnt against the rules, if it is, sorry but its for a good cause

http://dangerouslyhardcore.com/?p=370

There are 2 more follow up articles. And for you guys that are throwing out this crazy genius sh*t, please translate to lamens terms lol Also is anyone viewing this familiar with the paleo diet? I'm just in an odd traininig predicament and would like the guidance of a more experienced member to help me out. So if one of you diet guru's could throw some insight my way by answering some questions I'd appreciate it.

OK I read through most of that and IMO it is more of the same.

First off, like most of these articles, the author uses a collection of studies to form his own hypothesis (theory). A theory is just that. In the scientific community is must be proven by its own appropriate studies. Of course these articles never mention this because it would undermine the authority of the author.

Secondly, most of these macronutrient timing articles revolve around managing insulin sensitivity and output. Usually, as in this case, they make the erroneous assumption that carbohydrate is the only macro involved in this. The reality is that overall energy balance is what influences the trends of insulin and glucagon.

 

[ZiR RED]

Unfortunately for those of us looking to apply the science to a performance enhancing module, most of the research done on insulin sensitivity/resistance and glucose disposal is done with hyperglycemia and diabetics in mind, and is often done either on diabetics or rat models of insulin resistance. Thus, for those of us doing secondary research (reviewing, interpreting, critiquing, and applying the research) its often put into theory. This is where experience becomes a factor. For example, working with a large number of clients is often an advantage over simply "this works for me" n=1 defense many give. Then, of course, it is also important to understand whether you are applying to a diverse group of clients (unfit, fit, elite athletes, bodybuilders, etc.) or a homogenous group (just amatuer bodybuilders).

Br

 

[CTDeuce]

After reading tons about this, I plan to give it a go. I'll post any positive results.

 

[rjp3900]

Guess you didn't have any positive results!

I think this thread deserves a bump, since carb back-loading is getting more and more attention, and is on its way to taking the spot of intermittent fasting as the golden child of body fat loss/muscle gain.

So far, my experience with CBL over the past few weeks has resulted in some fat gain. Since John Kiefer advocates not counting calories and eating junk, that's what I've been doing. Though I haven't tracked via bod pod, calipers, or anything but the Ozeri body fat scale - the numbers are going in the wrong direction.

I'm going to stop eating large amounts of junk, and limit things like ice cream to 1 scoop, instead of four or five. There are limits, calories do matter, period.