23yo Low Test

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    Unhappy 23yo Low Test


    I am 23 and have been having issues that pointed to low test for a while. I spoke with my dr and finally convinced him to run a Total Test lab. The lab came back and i was sitting at 272ng/dl. According to my Dr. this is in the normal range of 240 - 820. This seems excessively low relative to my age, is it? He doesnt want to do anyting about it and I belong to an HMO for insurance so he is my assigned Dr. any recommendations on getting this up higher?

    My symptoms seem to fit that of low test, low sex drive, trouble gaining muscle, mid section fat, irritability and mild depression and the biggest one being fatigue.

    Any recs?

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    That sucks m8. Take some reasonable steps to improve your test levels. Go back to your doc after a month and see what the score is, explain the changes you made and if nothing has changed see if he will do anything for you.

    Are you overweight? Excess fat increases your estrogen levels. Also a crash diet will kill your test levels dead. If you drink alcohol, stop. Improve your diet (No processed food, more healthy fats, nuts, olive oil are very important) Do big muscle groups in the gym, squats, bench, pull ups, all low reps high weight. Keep a record of the changes you make and give all the info to your doc. To show your taking it serious and so should he.

    Your Test does seem low for someone your age, but i'm no doc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scb2121 View Post
    I am 23 and have been having issues that pointed to low test for a while. I spoke with my dr and finally convinced him to run a Total Test lab. The lab came back and i was sitting at 272ng/dl. According to my Dr. this is in the normal range of 240 - 820. This seems excessively low relative to my age, is it? He doesnt want to do anyting about it and I belong to an HMO for insurance so he is my assigned Dr. any recommendations on getting this up higher?

    My symptoms seem to fit that of low test, low sex drive, trouble gaining muscle, mid section fat, irritability and mild depression and the biggest one being fatigue.

    Any recs?
    Its pretty low and Im sure you probably dont feel the greatest I kno when I had 0 test I felt ****ty, when I had 250 test I felt ****ty, and now im at 400 and still only feel alright. Get it tested again in a month. If your primary doc wont refer you then call your insurance and find an Endo covered by your insurance. get an appointment with him and if its still at the same level and you want TRT and he wont do it then repeat with a New doctor.


    have you made any drastic changes to your lifestyle or eating habits?
    •   
       

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    Quote Originally Posted by scb2121 View Post
    I am 23 and have been having issues that pointed to low test for a while. I spoke with my dr and finally convinced him to run a Total Test lab. The lab came back and i was sitting at 272ng/dl. According to my Dr. this is in the normal range of 240 - 820. This seems excessively low relative to my age, is it? He doesnt want to do anyting about it and I belong to an HMO for insurance so he is my assigned Dr. any recommendations on getting this up higher?

    My symptoms seem to fit that of low test, low sex drive, trouble gaining muscle, mid section fat, irritability and mild depression and the biggest one being fatigue.

    Any recs?
    What I would do, and im crazy, is fast and deprive your self of sleep and get a test after you have put your body through that. Im sure your test will have lowered enough to to qualify you for HRT... Risk V. Reward... Think about it..
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamer2be08 View Post
    What I would do, and im crazy, is fast and deprive your self of sleep and get a test after you have put your body through that. Im sure your test will have lowered enough to to qualify you for HRT... Risk V. Reward... Think about it..
    Remind me why I ask you for advice again? haha

    .. You're nuts!
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    My mom died a little over a year ago, I think the stress killed my test more than anything. I eat fairly well, supplement with healthy fats. I am overweight but not horribly. 25% bf, but I dunno what came first the weight or the low test. Definitely can tell it is down, I had it tested a few months before my mom died it was up around 625. I have been dieting, but pretty softly, lots of exercise, moderate calorie reduction.

    I talked to the doc and he said to come in again in a month for another test. I might have to try your crazy little stunt there. Any idea what a doc would prescribe for low test? I would imagine because of my age test replacement would be a pretty big pain.

    Thanks for the help
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    im not sure depression can lower hormone levels in your body.
    For me, the action IS the juice.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scb2121 View Post
    My mom died a little over a year ago, I think the stress killed my test more than anything. I eat fairly well, supplement with healthy fats. I am overweight but not horribly. 25% bf, but I dunno what came first the weight or the low test. Definitely can tell it is down, I had it tested a few months before my mom died it was up around 625. I have been dieting, but pretty softly, lots of exercise, moderate calorie reduction.

    I talked to the doc and he said to come in again in a month for another test. I might have to try your crazy little stunt there. Any idea what a doc would prescribe for low test? I would imagine because of my age test replacement would be a pretty big pain.

    Thanks for the help
    he would probably put you on TRT if he does anything ,either gel or shots
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    You guys realize that once you start HRT its a lifetime process? Sure it may sound sexy now but think about getting poked every week, 52x a year at least, for the rest of your life. Look around at other methods to raise it naturally first. When you get caught up with numbers you obsess about it. Just work on eating whole foods, plenty of fats and cholesterol and minimizing stress.
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    What about clomid or something similar I have been reading a bit about it. It sounds interesting
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    Quote Originally Posted by scb2121 View Post
    What about clomid or something similar I have been reading a bit about it. It sounds interesting
    Clomid is probably the best option to try to get it up. I did 50mg for 7 or 8 weeks and went from low 100s to mid 400s . I dont have money to get on trt so im just waiting it out to see what happens
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    When are you going back to the doc srb?
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    In 2 weeks. I will keep you posted. I have adjusted my diet to see if that makes a difference.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wearedbleedblue View Post
    You guys realize that once you start HRT its a lifetime process? Sure it may sound sexy now but think about getting poked every week, 52x a year at least, for the rest of your life. Look around at other methods to raise it naturally first. When you get caught up with numbers you obsess about it. Just work on eating whole foods, plenty of fats and cholesterol and minimizing stress.

    honestly pinned for rest of life? nothing would please me more
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    honestly...................... ...... i like the idea of killing ur test just to get hrt. and yes deppression can decrease test. and yes clomid might work but if u take clomid it is wise to stack with a tiny bit of nolva (cant find the article btu its on her) clomid alone raises E levels as well
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    I WOULD LOVE TO BE ON TRT
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    What about being on just Nolva?
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    Quote Originally Posted by gamer2be08 View Post
    What I would do, and im crazy, is fast and deprive your self of sleep and get a test after you have put your body through that. Im sure your test will have lowered enough to to qualify you for HRT... Risk V. Reward... Think about it..
    If its likely it wont go up naturally, this is actually one of the better things to do IMO.

    Quote Originally Posted by wearedbleedblue View Post
    You guys realize that once you start HRT its a lifetime process? Sure it may sound sexy now but think about getting poked every week, 52x a year at least, for the rest of your life. Look around at other methods to raise it naturally first. When you get caught up with numbers you obsess about it. Just work on eating whole foods, plenty of fats and cholesterol and minimizing stress.
    Its not once a week. The TRT treatment shots can be done once a month. No biggie. But it does open up the ability to blast and cruise all yo uwant, just put back 3500 to take care of gyno surgery.

    Quote Originally Posted by sanchezgreg18 View Post
    Clomid is probably the best option to try to get it up. I did 50mg for 7 or 8 weeks and went from low 100s to mid 400s . I dont have money to get on trt so im just waiting it out to see what happens
    I am getting my test levels checked soon. 3 years of mind melting stress and pain, and I think mine are shot. If its low I think I will try one of these therapies first before ever giving into TRT crap.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jasen View Post
    honestly pinned for rest of life? nothing would please me more
    It sounds good...but how about going on vacation, or lets say your stuck in the wild for 2 months due to an accident, or your on a cruise and the ship sinks and your stranded on a small island that has enough to live off of but now you dont have your TRT.

    Its so limiting.
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    Stop thinking about the pro's/cons. Trust me on this...at a level below 300ng/dl, you practically NEED to be on TRT.

    I was in the low 300's and felt "fine" enough, but I was getting injured frequently, crappy sleep, brain fog, mood swings, relationship problems...etc..

    I didn't notice that my life was full of issues, because I was simply used to the way I felt. When I got on TRT and boosted my levels up to 1100, I can't even express the difference. Its not just the muscle buidling. My mood, attitude, concentration, focus, goals, ambititions, and personality are enhanced GREATLY. I will never go back.

    Don't worry about getting stranded on an island. Having mood swings and lack of sex drive don't matter when you are stranded on an island anyhow... You don't need high T to survive.
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    Quote Originally Posted by monsterbox View Post
    Stop thinking about the pro's/cons. Trust me on this...at a level below 300ng/dl, you practically NEED to be on TRT.

    I was in the low 300's and felt "fine" enough, but I was getting injured frequently, crappy sleep, brain fog, mood swings, relationship problems...etc..

    I didn't notice that my life was full of issues, because I was simply used to the way I felt. When I got on TRT and boosted my levels up to 1100, I can't even express the difference. Its not just the muscle buidling. My mood, attitude, concentration, focus, goals, ambititions, and personality are enhanced GREATLY. I will never go back.

    Don't worry about getting stranded on an island. Having mood swings and lack of sex drive don't matter when you are stranded on an island anyhow... You don't need high T to survive.
    So in your opinion would low T levels cause mild depression, a lack of drive or care in the world, and inability to think, and constantly being tired? I have stood by as my life has been sinking into hell and almost cant care anymore -.-
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero V View Post
    If its likely it wont go up naturally, this is actually one of the better things to do IMO.



    Its not once a week. The TRT treatment shots can be done once a month. No biggie. But it does open up the ability to blast and cruise all yo uwant, just put back 3500 to take care of gyno surgery.



    I am getting my test levels checked soon. 3 years of mind melting stress and pain, and I think mine are shot. If its low I think I will try one of these therapies first before ever giving into TRT crap.



    It sounds good...but how about going on vacation, or lets say your stuck in the wild for 2 months due to an accident, or your on a cruise and the ship sinks and your stranded on a small island that has enough to live off of but now you dont have your TRT.

    Its so limiting.
    i dont put myself in those island situations
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero V View Post
    So in your opinion would low T levels cause mild depression, a lack of drive or care in the world, and inability to think, and constantly being tired? I have stood by as my life has been sinking into hell and almost cant care anymore -.-
    Without a doubt, yes. People don't appreciate the systemic effects of low testosterone enough in my experience.

    The 1st step is to identify the reason your T is low; if it's dieting, stop or cut back. Make sure you get atleast 70-80g of health fats per day, ideally some Omega-3s.

    If it's not that, ask yourself have you always been low or has there been an acute change? Identify that change, and seek steps to work around it. Sleep deprivation, stress, etc can all be managed.

    Depending on how the cause and how low it is, you can either consider HRT or a SERM. Even HRT has options; I'd probably recommend a low dose hCG to maintain the testicles with some exogenous testosterone, or hCG monotherapy with an AI as needed if you can do it on 2k IUs per week or so.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasen View Post
    honestly...................... ...... i like the idea of killing ur test just to get hrt. and yes deppression can decrease test. and yes clomid might work but if u take clomid it is wise to stack with a tiny bit of nolva (cant find the article btu its on her) clomid alone raises E levels as well
    Well since you obviously whant your test higher than the real "replacement level", why don't you just go all out on roids now?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero V View Post
    So in your opinion would low T levels cause mild depression, a lack of drive or care in the world, and inability to think, and constantly being tired? I have stood by as my life has been sinking into hell and almost cant care anymore -.-
    I would sum it up in one sentence. Testosterone desensitizes you to stress.

    I wouldn't necessarily say that low-t would directly cause deprression, but it can certainly cause an exponential downward spiral to any pre-existing fatigue, anxiety and depression.

    For example, if you are overworked, getting 4 hrs sleep, stressed from the various reason, and you are feeling like hell, having low-t will make you REALLY feel it hard.

    Fixing your hormones isn't always going to fix the fact that you are overworked, stressed, etc, but it will help big time in desensiziting you to stress. Getting 4hrs of sleep isn't going to push you off the edge like it would with low hormones. Your overall appreciation for life should improve given the right conditions.

    If there no sole reason why you are depressed, (ex. lost your job, lost a family member) then you can pretty much bet its the hormone problem.
    ______________________________ ______________________________ __________________

    I used to wake up in the mornings and hate getting out of bed. I used to worry constantly about everything. I worried about my job, my classes, my homework, my girlfriend, my car, my workouts, my family, EVERYTHING. And the constant worrying led to anxiety and lack of sleep... I never considered myself depressed and felt "fine"

    Now, the TRT makes me feel motivated and in control of my feelings, thoughts, and actions. I no longer experience the hard anxiety from my small worries. Its seems as if everything in my mind has been repositioned/reprioritized into the right proportions. Life is just simpilier and I have control over it now!
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    Quote Originally Posted by monsterbox View Post
    I would sum it up in one sentence. Testosterone desensitizes you to stress.

    I wouldn't necessarily say that low-t would directly cause deprression, but it can certainly cause an exponential downward spiral to any pre-existing fatigue, anxiety and depression.

    For example, if you are overworked, getting 4 hrs sleep, stressed from the various reason, and you are feeling like hell, having low-t will make you REALLY feel it hard.

    Fixing your hormones isn't always going to fix the fact that you are overworked, stressed, etc, but it will help big time in desensiziting you to stress. Getting 4hrs of sleep isn't going to push you off the edge like it would with low hormones. Your overall appreciation for life should improve given the right conditions.

    If there no sole reason why you are depressed, (ex. lost your job, lost a family member) then you can pretty much bet its the hormone problem.
    ______________________________ ______________________________ __________________

    I used to wake up in the mornings and hate getting out of bed. I used to worry constantly about everything. I worried about my job, my classes, my homework, my girlfriend, my car, my workouts, my family, EVERYTHING. And the constant worrying led to anxiety and lack of sleep... I never considered myself depressed and felt "fine"

    Now, the TRT makes me feel motivated and in control of my feelings, thoughts, and actions. I no longer experience the hard anxiety from my small worries. Its seems as if everything in my mind has been repositioned/reprioritized into the right proportions. Life is just simpilier and I have control over it now!
    Last couple years was hard because of my ex, have had my dad dieing, my grandma dieing(Both are alive...just in a slow process of it due to injuries and cancer), lost my job and couldnt get one for almost a year, had my car repoed, lost my support to go to school, and am filing bankruptcy....

    Wee bit of stress. During which sleep was seldom had, and comfort and joy was rare. Hell I just got done being the person to find out my pastor was cheating on his wife(he is 56) with our youth pastor who is a single 21 year old girl. WTFGTFO tired of crap. And I had to find the evidence on accident, go through realizations, then bring it to light and watch things go haywire.

    I tend to be pretty happy now, but at the same time I have zero motivation, no more confidence, my mind is always here and there I cant focus on any tasks(always assumed its ADD), in the morning even if I do get 8 hours of sleep I cannot get out of bed to go to work. Takes me fighting to get up and go. And yeah I do worry about alot, but try not to.

    I would really prefer not to have to do TRT at this age, if it would wait till my 30's yeah wouldnt mind. Going to save up the dough to get levels checked. I been planning on doing my first PH run this year, but now I will avoid that until more is understood about my body. Might explain my rash of sicknesses/injuries these last 2 years as well. Always sick, always injured, always something breaking down on me. And i used to be invincible!
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    Very interesting thread. I feel a sense of compassion, support, n appreciation for the discussion/discussers. I've tried various things for depressive symptoms (physical, emotional, mental) over time, and honestly when I take a quality T-booster I am simply not as prone to these, I have more of the energy, drive n confidence I feel I should have (or at least significantly closer to it). I had suspected for some time that my struggle might be hormone-related as opposed to low seratonin and the more common explanations... many self-observations, trials n error, and readings led me to this hunch, n it just seems to be confirmed by the diff I feel when I take a T-booster. The only "negative" might be that I can perhaps become more "testy" at times, but I prefer that over being passive and reluctant to assert myself at times when I shouldn't hesitate to. I've never had blood work done however (prolly should get on that)
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    dude, id get juiced the F out then go to the doc and get ur test levels read and they will be extremely low that he has to give you something right??? kill two birds with one stone, Test for the future and PCT right now hahaha
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    Quote Originally Posted by soontobbeast View Post
    im not sure depression can lower hormone levels in your body.
    Depression is a symptom of low test.

    From about 17 i was sure i had depression but the more research i did and the recent blood tests have confirmed it is one of many symptoms of my low test levels, rather than some kind of disorder by itself.

    I'm 30 and am JUST at the low end of normal and i pushed for hrt but was denied so i know that in a few years i will be juicing permanently to get the old test levels up.

    At your age try to find the underlying problem then go from there.

    good luck
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero V View Post
    Last couple years was hard because of my ex, have had my dad dieing, my grandma dieing(Both are alive...just in a slow process of it due to injuries and cancer), lost my job and couldnt get one for almost a year, had my car repoed, lost my support to go to school, and am filing bankruptcy....

    Wee bit of stress. During which sleep was seldom had, and comfort and joy was rare. Hell I just got done being the person to find out my pastor was cheating on his wife(he is 56) with our youth pastor who is a single 21 year old girl. WTFGTFO tired of crap. And I had to find the evidence on accident, go through realizations, then bring it to light and watch things go haywire.

    I tend to be pretty happy now, but at the same time I have zero motivation, no more confidence, my mind is always here and there I cant focus on any tasks(always assumed its ADD), in the morning even if I do get 8 hours of sleep I cannot get out of bed to go to work. Takes me fighting to get up and go. And yeah I do worry about alot, but try not to.

    I would really prefer not to have to do TRT at this age, if it would wait till my 30's yeah wouldnt mind. Going to save up the dough to get levels checked. I been planning on doing my first PH run this year, but now I will avoid that until more is understood about my body. Might explain my rash of sicknesses/injuries these last 2 years as well. Always sick, always injured, always something breaking down on me. And i used to be invincible!
    Sounds exactly like me Zero. Top this with severe depression and absolutely no interest in anything. Low t levels are more than likely to blame. Get bloodwork sooner rather than later. I managed to get a full spectrum of blood tests done for free as my girlfriend's mum knew the doc. Saved me a fortune and gave me invaluable insight to why i feel the way i do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SemiBulimic View Post
    Sounds exactly like me Zero. Top this with severe depression and absolutely no interest in anything. Low t levels are more than likely to blame. Get bloodwork sooner rather than later. I managed to get a full spectrum of blood tests done for free as my girlfriend's mum knew the doc. Saved me a fortune and gave me invaluable insight to why i feel the way i do.
    I fight depression alot. And my B**** ex girlfriend got ahold of me tonight, and would not leave me alone for 20 minuets. Made me fee like shiz. I even called her a B****, and told her I will **** punt her... WTF she still would not go away.

    So now I am all fuzzy and pissed and getting on a game to make someone miserable.

    I will get it done, how much does it cost on average? Ballpark? I cant deal with crap no more, and I am often all talk no walk not because I dont want to but because I cant focus. I want my life back.
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    Haven't a clue how much it is over there mate, i'm from uk and it can be upto £200 here($300ish) to get the full test but i know it varies depending how many factors you want to test (platelet count, lipids, hormones, etc.). I got it done in poland as my girlfriend is polish. To be honest it doesn't matter how much it costs - think how much we spend on supps when all we could be doing is compensating for an underlying problem. You can't put a figure on your health or peace of mind. Hope it all works out for you bud
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    I don't mean to bust the bubble, but I think you guys may be overestimating the effects of testosterone.

    If you have a b*tchy girlfriend, and lots of problems going on, T is not going to solve the issue at all. Its just going to help you get a little more grip. Its certainly not an anti-depressent and it certainly doesn't change your personality. Its subtle yet effective.

    You aren't going to shoot some test cyp and wake up feeling like donkey kong with no cares in the world.

    Its not xanax and its not prozac. Its just a kick in the pants that gives you some extra energy, both mental, and physical to deal with life better.

    I would hate for someone with low-t to go through all the hassle of TRT expecting that they will magically be super happy and jumping off the the ground.


    From a technical perspective, Testosterone contributes to dopamine levels in the brain, and estrogen contributes to seratonin. Chemically speaking, dopamine exhibits motivation, and seratonin exhibits calm/serenity/peaceful. Low-T will lead to low levels of both dopamine and seratonin. Adaquate T levels will bring neurotranmittors back up to par. However, its important to note that when someone first brings up levels, they will experience a large rush of euphoria. This is because the dopamine receptors are getting flushed with higher than previous levels for the first time. This is why 600mg/Test-E makes people ecstatic. However, you must understand that overtime, the receptors will downregulate and you will end up feeling "normal" again.

    So, once again, don't put all your eggs in the TRT basket. Yes, it should help alot, but its ultimately going to be your lifestyle, experiences, and choices that you've made that will determine your happiness in life.
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    No one said test was the be-all-end-all. Just saying it's something worth looking into. I had no major problems in life yet felt (and still do) like utter sh1t and i have done my research and had blood tested and i believe low test is the culprit.

    Zero sounds like someone who as you put it, could do with 'a kick in the pants' in order for him to 'deal with life better'.

    Aside from this the impact on one's health as a result of low test is well documented enough to warrant concern for anyone diagnosed with low t-level so don't be so quick to judge. For health reasons alone, increasing t-levels is worth looking into:-

    http://health.yahoo.net/experts/hear...art-danger-men

    http://health.yahoo.net/experts/hear...stosterone-men

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6723723.stm

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36919773
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    Quote Originally Posted by SemiBulimic View Post
    No one said test was the be-all-end-all. Just saying it's something worth looking into. I had no major problems in life yet felt (and still do) like utter sh1t and i have done my research and had blood tested and i believe low test is the culprit.

    Zero sounds like someone who as you put it, could do with 'a kick in the pants' in order for him to 'deal with life better'.

    Aside from this the impact on one's health as a result of low test is well documented enough to warrant concern for anyone diagnosed with low t-level so don't be so quick to judge. For health reasons alone, increasing t-levels is worth looking into:-

    http://health.yahoo.net/experts/hear...art-danger-men

    http://health.yahoo.net/experts/hear...stosterone-men

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6723723.stm

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36919773
    If you have seen me on this board and the ups and downs I have gone through(Manically depressed, enraged, stable, and full cycle) you would wonder if I am just a loose cannon or a crazy person.

    Lately I planned to see a doc about getting ADD medication, and /or Anti-Depressants just to use until I can fix life enough to do without them.

    But this may be worth checking first, before I go that route. I duno.

    The ex issue should have been solved LONG ago, were talking about a couple years. I just have never been able to climb out of this hole. I try to get motivated, or do something. But I always fall asleep when I get stressed now, no more stamina. Only the gym lets me get vigorous and enjoy myself. Even then I grow slow, but I can still grow its just harder than it used to be.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SemiBulimic View Post
    No one said test was the be-all-end-all. Just saying it's something worth looking into. I had no major problems in life yet felt (and still do) like utter sh1t and i have done my research and had blood tested and i believe low test is the culprit.

    Zero sounds like someone who as you put it, could do with 'a kick in the pants' in order for him to 'deal with life better'.

    Aside from this the impact on one's health as a result of low test is well documented enough to warrant concern for anyone diagnosed with low t-level so don't be so quick to judge. For health reasons alone, increasing t-levels is worth looking into:-

    http://health.yahoo.net/experts/hear...art-danger-men

    http://health.yahoo.net/experts/hear...stosterone-men

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6723723.stm

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36919773
    I wasn't being quick to judge. I completely support getting t levels in the upper quartile, even if they are medically considered low.

    I had mentioned earlier how extraordinary fixing my t level was for myself, but I wanted to add that it may not cure depression for everyone.
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    I can empathize with what you are going through. I had a similar case where I was showing 260 -280ng/dl of total test, felt horrible, depressed, and spent the better part of a year going to 2 primary physicians and a Urologist to determine why my T levels were low. I was 28 at that time, going through a divorce, and I would consistently maintain a healthy lifestyle. I'm not the type to get depressed, however there was alot going on in my life. After getting frustrated, I took matters into my own hands.

    I did a cycle of 500mg Test E as well as some EQ for 16 weeks. I went back to the Urologist while on the cycle and my T levels were in the 3000ng/dl range I felt like a Rock Star! I noticed a HUGE difference in the way I felt, my mood, my workouts, everything! I started dating again and moving on with my life. I went through PCT and havent done a cycle since. My T levels have been around 500 - 600ng/dl. I dont know if the cycle jumpstarted my hormones or what, but I'm 32 now and if I ever drop down to the 200 range again, I'll be damned if I will let some DR discourage me....

    I wish you the best and I hope to have provided some insight with my story...
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    Man I was so hyped to start my oral cycle in about a couple weeks but I AM going to get a blood test JUST because of this thread! I'm trippin out reading this stuff and it's getting to my head, on top of that I have varicocele which isn't helping my mindset.
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    I would say that a person who is in danger of needing TRT shouldn't do a cycle of anything.
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    Also....just wanted to add that this board has an abundance of valuable information and really sharp guys. You may also want to check out the 35 and over forums as there is a wealth of TRT knowledge.
  

  
 

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