Bulk? Cut? What do you think?

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    Bulk? Cut? What do you think?


    I've been bulking since I started doing bodybuilding 3 years ago. Since I'm an ectomorph, and with some stops during summer holydays (wich always made me "cut" although I didn't do it on purpose) I've finally, this last September, made the biggest bulk in the shortest time: in one month I went from 179lbs (I don't know what was my bf % but I could see my 4 pack) up to 205 lbs (without being able to see any of my abs), then from the begining of October untill December I slowly cutted a bit to 198lbs. During the whole December and the first two weeks of January '10 I didn't payed much attention to bf levels so I went up to 207lbs and from that time I started to "clean up" my diet until I get an healthy 202lbs with some water and fat covering the abb area.
    For the last 3 weeks I've tried to "cut" hopping that I would see some changes: cutted all my simple carbs, except the ones from fruit, cutted some complex carbs in order to lower my water retention and started doing 30min running after the weight lifting and in "non-workout" days I've been doing 1h of bike. All of this has been doing well (although some willing to eat some more food, wich has been easy to keep in control) untill today: I guess I've lowered too much my carbs to a point where on my today's training not only I felt alot more weaker but also I started to feel some "light head" while doing shoulder press.
    So, my situation here is this: I haven't seen any other diferences in my body composition other than increased endurance (no wonder), I've felt like this today, so what do you think I should do? Cuting, bulk or other sugestion?
    My diet this last 3 weeks has been like this:
    -Breakfast:
    90gr of oats
    50gr of whey
    40gr of some kind of nuts (peanuts, almonds, ect.)
    1 capsule of ARLI Restore

    -Lunch:
    200gr of meat or fish
    90gr of pasta or potatoes (although this last ones I rarely eat)
    1 piece of fruit

    -Pre-workout (usualy 1h or 2 after lunch):
    1 can of sugar-free Red Bull
    750mg of L-Carnitine
    1 capsule of ARLI Restore

    -Post-workout
    50gr of whey
    1 banana

    -Dinner:
    200gr of meat or fish
    40gr of pasta or vegies
    1 piece of fruit
    1000mg soft-gel of fish oil

    -Before bed:
    100gr of some kind of nuts (peanuts, almonds, ect.)
    250ml of skimmed milk
    1 capsule of ARLI Restore

    If my weight training has some interest to help this you just ask, because since this isn't the training section I didn't wanted to fill this area with unecessary info
    Any reply is welcomed

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    id cut to the point to where you can see your abs. whenever i bulk i still see my abs, there no where near as nice mind you but all six are there. i wouldnt suggest going so high that they cant be seen at all. my cut starts monday and i got my bf tested so i could figure what my end weight will be. im 250 at 21% bf and i can still see my abs so i dont know what bf your at if you cant see them at all. i do have large pertrudin abs though so that prob makes a difference.
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    i would bulk man. ur avatar says your six ft six and u only weigh 205. my 15 yr old cousin is 6ft and weighs 190 and he isnt big. bulk till u hit like 250 or so. then u can cut. 205 is wayyyy to small to be cutting. im 5 ft 9 and my goal is 205 8%BF. i would think a six ft six dude would wanna be between 250 and 270
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricky5145 View Post
    id cut to the point to where you can see your abs. whenever i bulk i still see my abs, there no where near as nice mind you but all six are there. i wouldnt suggest going so high that they cant be seen at all. my cut starts monday and i got my bf tested so i could figure what my end weight will be. im 250 at 21% bf and i can still see my abs so i dont know what bf your at if you cant see them at all. i do have large pertrudin abs though so that prob makes a difference.
    You can still see them at 21%?? That seems a bit unusual. If you have protruding abs though it's possible you have a good amount of visceral fat, which isn't good.
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    Here's a picture of me at 207lbs this January:

    I would like to note that I'm flexing my abs when I took the picture.
    It's true that a guy of my size isn't big, I kind of freaked out because I wasn't seeing my abs neither I looked bigger, specialy in my arms and torso.
    Hope this picture may help some of you to have a better idea, because like R1balla said 207lbs for guy that is 6ft 6in tall is kind of small for cutting
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    Might want to add some cottage cheese before bed and food preworkout and more post but I think you said that was your cutting meal plan so maybe not...
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    here ya go bro. bulk, but do a clean bulk and do cardio like jump roping and work on abs. this way you will get your toso more ripped but still bulk the rest. if u dont do abs, the jump rope is not doing anything. you cant spot reduce fat . its all or nothing. thats why if u do a clean bulk, u wont get fat, just lean muscle and the cardio will cut the fat out hopefully and the ab work will make the abs pop out.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rckvl7 View Post
    You can still see them at 21%?? That seems a bit unusual. If you have protruding abs though it's possible you have a good amount of visceral fat, which isn't good.
    not really, all my viens are visable and my abs and obliques still shin through. 21 isnt much at all. most people who are average looking have that or more they just dont know it. i have alot of muscle on my frame, and i mean alot.
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    p.s look at my avatar thats me and in that pic it was prob around 15 or so and it still looked good, my 21 is not much different.
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    look up jay cutler. thats me. hahaha. how did u get to 245 rick? im 5 9 around 178. i wanna get to 205 naturally. its gonna take forever lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1balla View Post
    look up jay cutler. thats me. hahaha. how did u get to 245 rick? im 5 9 around 178. i wanna get to 205 naturally. its gonna take forever lol
    nah man im not kiddin thats me, i have a whole album on my page. i got up to 245 by eating 8000+ cals a day, lifting with my special routine and supplementing my butt off. my mom was very upset, she doesnt like the bodybuilder look she tells me this every day
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricky5145 View Post
    id cut to the point to where you can see your abs. whenever i bulk i still see my abs, there no where near as nice mind you but all six are there. i wouldnt suggest going so high that they cant be seen at all. my cut starts monday and i got my bf tested so i could figure what my end weight will be. im 250 at 21% bf and i can still see my abs so i dont know what bf your at if you cant see them at all. i do have large pertrudin abs though so that prob makes a difference.
    if you have abs theres no way your 21%

    most people dont get that outline until 10-15%
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    def add some size but with a clean diet. If you cut rt now you will look skinny more than anything until you have more muscle on your frame. When I first cut I thought I looked too skinny so I am not doing that until I put on more wt.
    -OMEGA RecoverBro-
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    Quote Originally Posted by crazyfool405 View Post
    if you have abs theres no way your 21%

    most people dont get that outline until 10-15%
    MOST PEOPLE, key word MOST. i have great genetics.
    you can debate the truth
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    no bro i believe you lol. i was just cracking a joke. ya when i started lifting i weighed like 135 at 5 7. im either 5 8 or 5 9. not sure. i just dont wanna have a heart attack eating 8k cals a day hahaha
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    Hum, so the overall idea is that I should stop the cut and keep bulking, but doing a lean bulk is that it?
    R1balla, in fact when I was doing this bulk all I was doing was lifting, eating and sleeping (almost literaly), no cardio, no ab work, nothing more than lifting and the warm up.
    So with this said, I was thinking about turning back to lean bulk next week, but I'll need some help about what changes do I have to do in regards of my diet, if there's some meals that I should keep like they're on the diet I posted inicialy and what do I have to change.
    About the workout, I'm doing a 3 series of 12 reps, splited by pec's/bi's, legs/shoulders and back/tri's with 10 min warm up followed by 30 min run. Should I keep the run? Where should I include the abs work?
    Sorry for asking so many questions at the same time and including some training questions in here, but I guess they're closely related with the bulking I'll start ....AND thanks for your help guys

    P.S.: Ricky you really do have some great genetics, do you ever considered competing someday?
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    Quote Originally Posted by R1balla View Post
    i just dont wanna have a heart attack eating 8k cals a day hahaha
    i hear you on that one though haha
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    Quote Originally Posted by Broly View Post
    P.S.: Ricky you really do have some great genetics, do you ever considered competing someday?
    thank you man! and yes i def will. summer 2011
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    You're welcome Ricky
    Btw, another thing I forgot to ask to wich weight should I aim for? 250 or 270lbs?
    Any help on these and the other questions is welcomed as usual
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    uni
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    Quote Originally Posted by Broly View Post
    You're welcome Ricky
    Btw, another thing I forgot to ask to wich weight should I aim for? 250 or 270lbs?
    Any help on these and the other questions is welcomed as usual
    well this is what i would suggest. id get your BF% checked now, then bulk up with a solid diet and trainning program see what you look like at 230, then 240 and get it checked again. if its your bF% isnt that high keep going if it is high, id worry less about the weight and work on thinning out and maintaining the muscle you added. before i bulk i always like to get my BF low so i start with a fresh palate. i dont like to keep a bulk going too long because the more fat added the harder it is to get rid of. i wouldnt let it get any higher than 20% or so, i let mine get away up to 21% but its ok for me because my bf is normally 5% and i can still eat whatever i want. my metabolism is through the rough. then again if your metabolism is slow i wouldnt let it go above 12-15%. it all depends on body type. some people dont like getting to 20% but on my frame, 20%isnt much as my abs and viens are still visable. its all really different from person to person. everyone thinks they have the one specific answer but its imposible for one thing to work for every single person. i went off topic a little so i am sorry for any confuision but i guess what i wam trying to say is bulk up man! and keep and eye on that bodyfat and dont let it get anywhere where you cant handle getting rid of it.
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    Ok, I've a problem about getting my bf % checked...the only way I can do so is by those machines that basicaly do a ratio of height and weight and then give a number But I guess I have a mild metabolism, not so fast that I can eat whatever I want that I won't get fat, but not that slow that a little more cabs would make me fat, if I don't eat to many sugars and keep my protein very high as well as complex carbs I'll look something like what is on the photo.
    So for now, and since I'm a little bit leaner (though I don't have a clue about my real bf%) I'll aim to 230lbs during my bulk. In regards of diet, I'll need some help about what changes do I have to do in order to this the lean way
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    Quote Originally Posted by Broly View Post
    Ok, I've a problem about getting my bf % checked...the only way I can do so is by those machines that basicaly do a ratio of height and weight and then give a number But I guess I have a mild metabolism, not so fast that I can eat whatever I want that I won't get fat, but not that slow that a little more cabs would make me fat, if I don't eat to many sugars and keep my protein very high as well as complex carbs I'll look something like what is on the photo.
    So for now, and since I'm a little bit leaner (though I don't have a clue about my real bf%) I'll aim to 230lbs during my bulk. In regards of diet, I'll need some help about what changes do I have to do in order to this the lean way
    alrighty good stuff man, whats your diet like so far?
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    My advice is to do a serious bulk. I'd focus on eating a good diet depending on your metabolism, goals, and genetics and at the same time focusing on getting your lifts strong as hell. Maybe do starting strength? Starr's 5x5? A linear based full body routine would be your best bet right now. I'd say try to put about 50 lbs your bench; more on your squat and deadlift. If you do that and gain weight in the process you'll be ready to either powerlift or bodybuild. You gotta get that base going first though bro.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ricky5145 View Post
    alrighty good stuff man, whats your diet like so far?
    It's in the begining of the thread, but I'll post it again:
    -Breakfast:
    90gr of oats
    50gr of whey
    40gr of some kind of nuts (peanuts, almonds, ect.)
    1 capsule of ARLI Restore

    -Lunch:
    200gr of meat or fish
    90gr of pasta or potatoes (although this last ones I rarely eat)
    1 piece of fruit

    -Pre-workout (usualy 1h or 2 after lunch):
    1 can of sugar-free Red Bull
    750mg of L-Carnitine
    1 capsule of ARLI Restore

    -Post-workout
    50gr of whey
    1 banana

    -Dinner:
    200gr of meat or fish
    40gr of pasta or vegies
    1 piece of fruit
    1000mg soft-gel of fish oil

    -Before bed:
    100gr of some kind of nuts (peanuts, almonds, ect.)
    250ml of skimmed milk
    1 capsule of ARLI Restore

    Although the Restore is about to end, so it won't be something to consider
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingk0ng View Post
    My advice is to do a serious bulk. I'd focus on eating a good diet depending on your metabolism, goals, and genetics and at the same time focusing on getting your lifts strong as hell. Maybe do starting strength? Starr's 5x5? A linear based full body routine would be your best bet right now. I'd say try to put about 50 lbs your bench; more on your squat and deadlift. If you do that and gain weight in the process you'll be ready to either powerlift or bodybuild. You gotta get that base going first though bro.
    As I said previously I'm doing a 2 body part per workout in a 3x12 base. About strength I don't know much more than below 8 reps is for strenght and from 8 to 12 is good for hypertrophy but as for the tree basics I'm doing for the 3x12:
    -176lbs for bench
    -148lbs for the deadlift
    -143lbs on the squat (but I'm a bit afraid of squating since I've had a knee injury back in '07 and I have both knee caps pointed a little to outside the place where they should be since birth), though that I can do 617lbs leg press
    So how does that 5x5 work?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Broly View Post
    It's in the begining of the thread, but I'll post it again:
    -Breakfast:
    90gr of oats
    50gr of whey
    40gr of some kind of nuts (peanuts, almonds, ect.)
    1 capsule of ARLI Restore

    -Lunch:
    200gr of meat or fish
    90gr of pasta or potatoes (although this last ones I rarely eat)
    1 piece of fruit

    -Pre-workout (usualy 1h or 2 after lunch):
    1 can of sugar-free Red Bull
    750mg of L-Carnitine
    1 capsule of ARLI Restore

    -Post-workout
    50gr of whey
    1 banana

    -Dinner:
    200gr of meat or fish
    40gr of pasta or vegies
    1 piece of fruit
    1000mg soft-gel of fish oil

    -Before bed:
    100gr of some kind of nuts (peanuts, almonds, ect.)
    250ml of skimmed milk
    1 capsule of ARLI Restore

    Although the Restore is about to end, so it won't be something to consider

    oh shoot my bad, well here is what i would change from your diet.

    -Breakfast:
    90gr of oats
    4 whole eggs, 2 whites
    12-16 oz whole milk
    40gr of some kind of nuts (peanuts, almonds, ect.)

    Shake -50 grams whey-1/2 cup oats
    1 fruit

    -Lunch:
    8 oz red meat
    90gr of pasta or potatoes or rice
    1 piece of fruit

    (Pre workout)
    shake- 25-50 gram whey, 2.5 gram beta alanine

    -Post-workout-immediatly
    shake-30 gram dextrose( powdered gatoraid works wonders) 2.5 grams beta alanine, 5 gram creatine, 10 gram glutamine.

    1/2 hour to 45 min later
    shake-5o gram whey

    -Dinner:
    200gr of meat
    40gr of pasta and vegies
    1 piece of fruit
    1000mg soft-gel of fish oil

    -Before bed:
    100gr of some kind of nuts (peanuts, almonds, ect.)
    16 oz of skimmed milk


    this is what i would do if i were you. i ran something similar and put on ALOT of quality muscle. hoped that helped
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    Hum, that sounds good But for what can I trade the eggs for breakfast? (since they shouldn't be eaten raw I can't imagine myself eating eggs for breakfast)
    Btw, I've used creatine mono before with no results so I guess I'm a non responder, how can I replace that on my diet?
    And how can I structure that Starr 5x5 workout? From what I've read it seems to give mass in general, not properly directed to muscle gain
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    You should definitely bulk. Also have some carbs hour before your workouts for energy. You probably donít feel good during your workout because of red bull I used to drink power horse energy drink before my workout and would experience same symptoms perhaps caffeine drop? Also If I were you I would I would try this split
    Monday- shoulders/biceps/triceps/forearm
    Thursdays-legs
    Sunday- back/chest
    Wednesday-legs
    Saturday- shoulders/biceps/triceps/forearm
    Tuesday-legs
    And so on
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcink99 View Post
    You should definitely bulk. Also have some carbs hour before your workouts for energy. You probably donít feel good during your workout because of red bull I used to drink power horse energy drink before my workout and would experience same symptoms perhaps caffeine drop? Also If I were you I would I would try this split
    Monday- shoulders/biceps/triceps/forearm
    Thursdays-legs
    Sunday- back/chest
    Wednesday-legs
    Saturday- shoulders/biceps/triceps/forearm
    Tuesday-legs
    And so on
    I've only felt this today and defenitly it isn't red bull related, since I use it since October with no symptoms like this time, so i assume it's related to low carbs.
    And you sugest to do such routine in what form 5x5, 3x12 or any other you sugest?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Broly View Post
    I've only felt this today and defenitly it isn't red bull related, since I use it since October with no symptoms like this time, so i assume it's related to low carbs.
    And you sugest to do such routine in what form 5x5, 3x12 or any other you sugest?
    Are you familiar with hit training? If not I will try to break it up to you.
    The way I workout all my muscle is I do two warm-up sets. One with light second with moderate weight. After those two warm-up sets I do my work out set. In my workout set I try to go 8-10 reps but what matters here is the intensity. I give this set 100% of what I got. Key points during exercise are that muscle has 3 strengths positive/negative and static. I try to hit all of them during one set you do this buy performing each exercise slowly with no outside force and than holding it at a static position for a 2seckonds. Check out his tempo slow and controled


    YouTube- Classic High Intensity Training

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Me...led.29_routine
  32. Advanced Member
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    I think you should continue to bulk up. IMO If you still look normal in clothes, your not big enough. You have a great frame, and don't look bad at all. I can only imagine how hard it would be for a guy at your height to bulk up. A heck of alot more food than most of us. I take hard boiled eggs, milk, burger patties, and cans of tuna in a cooler everywhere to make sure I get protein every 2-3 hours and usually pack fruits ,rice and bread for carbs throughout the day-thats my back up food. Don't forget water. Right now i'm doing dc training and gaining about a pound a week. It's intense but seems to be working well for me. You could easily weigh over 260 without looking like a slob. It just depends on your goals. If you want that 300 body then your just about there(before cutting up) Keep it up. Some say bigger is better.
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcink99 View Post
    Are you familiar with hit training? If not I will try to break it up to you.
    The way I workout all my muscle is I do two warm-up sets. One with light second with moderate weight. After those two warm-up sets I do my work out set. In my workout set I try to go 8-10 reps but what matters here is the intensity. I give this set 100% of what I got. Key points during exercise are that muscle has 3 strengths positive/negative and static. I try to hit all of them during one set you do this buy performing each exercise slowly with no outside force and than holding it at a static position for a 2seckonds. Check out his tempo slow and controled


    YouTube- Classic High Intensity Training

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Me...led.29_routine
    Defenetly I wasn't familiar with that kind of workout. The kind I'm aplying is doing 3x12 with the same weight from the begining to the end with no warm up other than cardio. So that HIT training is like 3x10, the first two sets of a lighter weight and the last one with the maximum of what a person can do for those 10 reps but with the positive/static/negative strengths, is that it? And splited like the Mentzer's workout is that what you meant with it in the last part of the post? It seems to "short" for a workout, though the intensity envolved might make it longer than it seems
  34. Advanced Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by omni View Post
    I think you should continue to bulk up. IMO If you still look normal in clothes, your not big enough. You have a great frame, and don't look bad at all. I can only imagine how hard it would be for a guy at your height to bulk up. A heck of alot more food than most of us. I take hard boiled eggs, milk, burger patties, and cans of tuna in a cooler everywhere to make sure I get protein every 2-3 hours and usually pack fruits ,rice and bread for carbs throughout the day-thats my back up food. Don't forget water. Right now i'm doing dc training and gaining about a pound a week. It's intense but seems to be working well for me. You could easily weigh over 260 without looking like a slob. It just depends on your goals. If you want that 300 body then your just about there(before cutting up) Keep it up. Some say bigger is better.
    I'll defenetly bulk up, but I'm thinking about doing it step by step, like went to 230lbs and see how do I look and then if I want to get bigger I'll aim to 250/260lbs, by that time I'll see if I need to either mantain or cut a little
    And you're right when you say that bulking up at my height is pretty hard, because you may weight the same or even more as other "big guys" in the gym but since I'm much taller I'm still looking small comparing to them. Oh thanks about the frame thing
    Btw, what is that dc training that you talked about? It seems just like what I need if it makes me gain about a pound per week too=D

    P.S.: Some say bigger is better..... specially girls if you know what I mean
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    Quote Originally Posted by Broly View Post
    Defenetly I wasn't familiar with that kind of workout. The kind I'm aplying is doing 3x12 with the same weight from the begining to the end with no warm up other than cardio. So that HIT training is like 3x10, the first two sets of a lighter weight and the last one with the maximum of what a person can do for those 10 reps but with the positive/static/negative strengths, is that it? And splited like the Mentzer's workout is that what you meant with it in the last part of the post? It seems to "short" for a workout, though the intensity envolved might make it longer than it seems
    I also do HIT, one working set per exercise. once i switched to HIT i had gains you wouldnt belive. chest blew up 5 inches, arms 2, legs 6, calves 4, forearms 3. all in a 9 months time frame. I dont care what anyone says about HIT, if someone says it doesnt work, look at my gains, it sure as **** does. i recorded the whole transforamtion in a yellow paged book. everyday id write what i lifted, my measurements and my weight. my incline bench started at 225 for 20. last week i did incline with 335 for 6. im going to try 365 tommorow. my reverse grip BB rows went from 315 for 6 to 425 for 6. its just rediculous. in my opinion, its the best way to train hands down, but of course im going to feel that way after the gains ive recieved. im never going to train another way again, never.
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    [QUOTE=Broly;2326478]Defenetly I wasn't familiar with that kind of workout. The kind I'm aplying is doing 3x12 with the same weight from the begining to the end with no warm up other than cardio. So that HIT training is like 3x10, the first two sets of a lighter weight and the last one with the maximum of what a person can do for those 10 reps but with the positive/static/negative strengths, is that it? And splited like the Mentzer's workout is that what you meant with it in the last part of the post? It seems to "short" for a workout, though the intensity envolved might make it longer than it seems[/QUOTE]

    Yes, thats it. Keep in mind that muscles grow from intensity not volume of the exercise. Yes my split is simular to Mentzer's workout accept I take 2 day off instead of 4-7 he recommends.Give it a try for a month and let us know about your results.
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    the main principle behind HIT is that you want to stimulate the muscle enough for optimal growth, not soo much that your whole body has to recover from the damage delt. workouts are short and intense. there is a big difference between recovery and growth. they are not the same. people spend too much time doing more damage than good.
  

  
 

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